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[nynt9]

I think the only real concern is that it doesn't support the engine they are building the game on. If Unreal 4 had been made for WiiI I doubt we'd be having this conversation.

Pretty much. Contrary to what people in favor of the WiiU port seem to frame it as, I don't think anyone here actually hates the WiiU. Heck, I have one, bought it day 1, and I have Splatoon preordered and I'm very hyped for it. But considering the engine doesn't work on WiiU, we have these options:

1- Armature actually port UE4 to WiiU, which is a rather large undertaking and release a downgraded version of the game

2- Armature remake the game from scratch in a different or homebrew engine on WiiU and release a downgraded version of the game

Either way, the version on WiiU will be a poor version, and I don't know how many WiiU-only owners there will be in mid 2017, which is two years from now, who haven't either gotten a PC, PS4, Xbone, or upcoming Nintendo console, which will surely get a port equivalent to the PC/PS4 version of the game.

Either way, it's kind of a short sighted idea in my opinion, kind of a cynical move to get money from current WiiU owners who don't realize that the version they get won't be as good as the "intended" version of the game, and that their platform might essentially be defunct by the time the game actually comes out, and let's not even talk about the possibility of the game being delayed. It will require development resources, and I'm sure IGA's team and/or Armature are smart enough to have accounted for that money, but I can't help but feel that this is throwing money at a low-return, lower-quality product.

It's my opinion, and I'm ok if people disagree with it. There is little evidence that proves me or the opinion of those opposed to me right or wrong anyway. Time will tell. But at least I have a reasoned argument extrapolated from evidence and my work experience in programming. I'm not calling people names like some others here.

And for what it's worth, since someone implied that our input into this campaign should be measured by the size of our contribution, I'm $2k into this project, again, backed it day 1 at that amount.

 

[MDSLKTR]

As opposed to the grown adults that are emotionally distraught that a video game is going to be made available to more people?

Or the people that thought this small team indie game was going to set their Sacred Lord Jesus PlayStation® 4's GPU on fire?

You actually have massive issues dude

 

[Pureauthor]

I would like to remind everyone that we're talking about the spiritual successor to a series that has spent pretty much every single game on PS1-ballpark hardware or worse.

 

[Nintendojitsu]

 

[andymcc]

First of all, why on earth did my ancient post get quoted? I understand the other quote, at least... (EDIT: quote was removed from said post, looks like it was an accident.)

Second, to those who would prefer that funds for a Wii U port be used for further refinement of the main game instead, fair enough, you are fully entitled to that desire. Just understand that was never going to happen, since the Wii U port had been planned as a stretch goal from the very beginning.

Third, to those who think a Wii U port will dumb down the other versions as a lowest common denominator: Iga and his team have repeatedly insisted in so many words that this is not what is going to happen. I'm not sure if this opinion stems from lack of reading comprehension, or extreme cynicism in thinking the creators are lying or bluffing. Either way, I'm sad to see it.

yeah, i did it from mobile and i think i might have tapped your post too. sorry.

 

[nynt9]

I would like to remind everyone that we're talking about the spiritual successor to a series that has spent pretty much every single game on PS1-ballpark hardware or worse.

I would like to remind you that we're not talking about the gameplay design, which is the same as ever, we're talking about the visual fidelity and other technical aspects, which the developers have explicitly made clear to be different from previous iterations, so this post is a false equivalence.

 

[cajunator]

Actually, its kinda the opposite for me. I have plenty to play on wiiU and not much to do on Ps4 so this game would be nice to give me some reason to turn on my Ps4 again.

 

[TheMoon]

I agree. What if the game is so big and detailed, but had to be limited because of Wii U's memory? I'd rather have Xbone be the baseline, and the game ported to whatever Nintendo console is in 2017 with proper UE4 support.

Oh please, a 2.5D game? Gimme a break lol.

I would like to remind you that we're not talking about the gameplay design, which is the same as ever, we're talking about the visual fidelity and other technical aspects, which the developers have explicitly made clear to be different from previous iterations, so this post is a false equivalence.

Many posters are actually citing "design compromises" as their (irrational) reasons for concern.

 

[nynt9]

Oh please, a 2.5D game? Gimme a break lol.



Many posters are actually citing "design compromises" as their (irrational) reasons for concern.

Well to be fair, potentially, and this might not be a real concern, if IGA decided to make a huge seamless castle, or a very large area with many enemies, or an especially complicated boss battle, and Armature said "we can't do this on the WiiU", it would be unfortunate.

This isn't a likely scenario, but it's not utterly impossible.

 

[Crocodile]

One thing I do know, is that no matter how good the game looks from early screenshots/videos (and it might even look damn good) there will be a non-insignificant number of people who will complain because the game doesn't look like whatever image of it they had in their minds and it will be annoying as fuck to have to suffer through :/

Sorry if old, I haven't followed this thread closely.

Koch Media (Saints Row, Metro, Homefront) trademarked Bloodstained on May 20, about 10 days after the start of the Kickstarter campaign. It not only suggest they will fund the game and publish it, but that they also own the Bloodstained franchise.

I don't know enough about Koch Media/Deep Silver to have an opinion one way or the other right now but that's pretty much what I figured (with regards to IP ownership). As long as Koch Media/Deep Silver are cool cats this shouldn't be an issue but there's also that potentially for them turn into assholes in the near/far future. That's just the way business is I guess. Thanks for figuring this out

Pretty much. Contrary to what people in favor of the WiiU port seem to frame it as, I don't think anyone here actually hates the WiiU. Heck, I have one, bought it day 1, and I have Splatoon preordered and I'm very hyped for it. But considering the engine doesn't work on WiiU, we have these options:

1- Armature actually port UE4 to WiiU, which is a rather large undertaking and release a downgraded version of the game

2- Armature remake the game from scratch in a different or homebrew engine on WiiU and release a downgraded version of the game

Either way, the version on WiiU will be a poor version, and I don't know how many WiiU-only owners there will be in mid 2017, which is two years from now, who haven't either gotten a PC, PS4, Xbone, or upcoming Nintendo console, which will surely get a port equivalent to the PC/PS4 version of the game.

Either way, it's kind of a short sighted idea in my opinion, kind of a cynical move to get money from current WiiU owners who don't realize that the version they get won't be as good as the "intended" version of the game, and that their platform might essentially be defunct by the time the game actually comes out, and let's not even talk about the possibility of the game being delayed. It will require development resources, and I'm sure IGA's team and/or Armature are smart enough to have accounted for that money, but I can't help but feel that this is throwing money at a low-return, lower-quality product.

It's my opinion, and I'm ok if people disagree with it. There is little evidence that proves me or the opinion of those opposed to me right or wrong anyway. Time will tell. But at least I have a reasoned argument extrapolated from evidence and my work experience in programming. I'm not calling people names like some others here.

And for what it's worth, since someone implied that our input into this campaign should be measured by the size of our contribution, I'm $2k into this project, again, backed it day 1 at that amount.

I don't think anyone outright hates the Wii U either (at least I hope not) but when every argument against a Wii U port has been repeatedly shot down and yet people still keep bringing it up as a point over and over again, I start to get confused as to what people's hang-ups are. An inferior Wii-U port (and there's no way now to discern if it will be to a degree that would bother most people in addition to potential side benefits like an off-screen map) is strictly better than no Wii-U version. There's no argument against the port that isn't derived from some amount of paranoia, cynicism or concern trolling. Even in 2017 there will be a nonzero number of people who can only/prefer to game on the Wii U, you can't promise to develop for vaporware, it won't negatively impact the development of the UE4 version, it will be totally/mostly funded by backers (the publisher may throw in some extra cash too but either way this is money that wouldn't be around at all were it not for the Wii U version), and if the Wii U version is shite, it won't affect you and at least Wii U owners at least have the option of playing it. I mean no disrespect towards you or anyone else, I just legit don't understand why this is contentious. Like I'm seriously confused.

 

[M3d10n]

But say it costs (making this up) 20K worth of manhours to port UE4 to Wii U. And say there are two teams that want to use UE4 on Wii U. Team A and team B are each going to have to front 20K to port it. If Epic ported it themselves and then charged each team 15K, they'd come out ahead 10K and each team would save 5K. Does the economy of scale break this or am I missing something?

These teams are certainly "custom licensees" (aka: dealing with cash upfront instead of the 5% royalties) and will be in touch with Epic. If another team (with money on them) is interested, Epic will certainly put them in touch so they can strike a deal.

For example, there are several Unity ports for platforms that aren't officially supported out-of-the-box. Unity will forward you to 3rd parties if you want to publish Unity games to those platforms, but they won't add support for them straight into the editor because it would be more expensive for them for them in the long run.

It's simply not strategic for Epic to port it themselves because UE4 is still quite new and they don't have faith the demand (and sales) for Wii U UE4 games will be high enough to warrant using their internal resources. Unity's deal with Nintendo also makes the competition much harsher there. For example, Unity-only projects have a much lower barrier of entry on the Wii U (can be self self published, doesn't require any prior game development history, can be made by home-office) while the "normal" SDK, which allow you to make C/C++ Wii U games has more stringent requirements.

 

[nynt9]

One thing I do know, is that no matter how good the game looks from early screenshots/videos (and it might even look damn good) there will be a non-insignificant number of people who will complain because the game doesn't look like whatever image of it they had in their minds and it will be annoying as fuck to have to suffer through :/



I don't know enough about Koch Media/Deep Silver to have an opinion one way or the other right now but that's pretty much what I figured (with regards to IP ownership). As long as Koch Media/Deep Silver are cool cats this shouldn't be an issue but there's also that potentially for them turn into assholes in the near/far future. That's just the way business is I guess. Thanks for figuring this out



I don't think anyone outright hates the Wii U either (at least I hope not) but when every argument against a Wii U port has been repeatedly shot down and yet people still keep bringing it up as a point over and over again, I start to get confused as to what people's hang-ups are. An inferior Wii-U port (and there's no way now to discern if it will be to a degree that would bother most people in addition to potential side benefits like an off-screen map) is strictly better than no Wii-U version. There's no argument against the port that isn't derived from some amount of paranoia, cynicism or concern trolling. Even in 2017 there will be a nonzero number of people who can only/prefer to game on the Wii U, you can't promise to develop for vaporware, it won't negatively impact the development of the UE4 version, it will be totally/mostly funded by backers (the publisher may throw in some extra cash too but either way this is money that wouldn't be around at all were it not for the Wii U version), and if the Wii U version is shite, it won't affect you and at least Wii U owners at least have the option of playing it. I mean no disrespect towards you or anyone else, I just legit don't understand why this is contentious. Like I'm seriously confused.

There are arguments regarding the port that haven't been "shot down". You might claim something won't be true, but that doesn't mean it won't be true. Considering the game is in an early concept stage, is 2 years (at least) from release and we've only seen about a dozen or so pieces of concept art, total, there is a lot that can go wrong. I'm not saying all concerns are valid, but I also won't say that all concerns are invalid. We're speculating here. This is a discussion board, it's the point. I'm not even concern trolling as I have no reason to. I don't legitimately think the game will be limited significantly by having a WiiU version. It might be, but I don't think it's a huge concern. But I do think it's important and valid to discuss these concerns so that we make them heard, and we have more reasonable expectations. While I've seen some poorly-thought concern troll posts, I've also seen several very aggressive (or very passive-aggressive) posts from WiiU owners trying to shut down all discussion on the subject. It's not a done deal. It's not "shot down". There are questions that people have, and more questions that people should have, and talking about them and answering them is good.

If someone is a primarily WiiU owner, these questions might seem irrelevant or even antagonistic towards their platform, but one must remember that the "intended" version of the game targets PC/PS4/XB1 on UE4, an engine that currently does not exist on the WiiU. That obviously raises question marks, and until the development procedure for the port is further clarified and the compromises made for that version clearly outlined, questions will continue to exist.

It's kind of a shitty way to think about it, but the nature of the WiiU port being a stretch goal handled by an outsourced company on a (most likely) different (or reduced version of the same) engine inherently relegates (or at least creates the perception of) WiiU backers into "second-class" backers and other backers into "first-class" backers, which is really the cause for all this conflict. It's unfortunate, but the way they planned and revealed the game inevitably led to this.

 

[Dr. Buni]

IGA is hiring a damn full other studio to create a Wii:U port; a console that will be dead in 2017.

I didn't know time travelers posted on GAF.

It's one thing to think a Wii U port is unrealistic, and it's another thing to actively say it shouldn't happen. Just how hard do people think this game is going to push the PS4/X1/PC that the Wii U should not happen?

I say this as someone who is likely going to check it out on PC.

People thinking this will be a game that will push current gen systems are delusional. I expect Bloodstained to be a game that would easily run on a PS Vita.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Man this thread is a huge shit show now! Any actual news happening anytime soon?

 

[Maxrunner]

Welp... As someone who is a backer, I feel I should have a say in the development just like everyone else, and to those who disagree.

IGA is hiring a damn full other studio to create a Wii:U port; a console that will be dead in 2017. ANOTHER studio! I wonder how many people at Armature will be working on this. All of the funds that is going to be spent hiring Armature, I would rather have those finances being used on making a more ambitious title. Use those funds to hire more graphic engineers, coders, graphic design, etc. Heck, they should hire Armature to help in the development of the main game to boost its original vision. So yes, the WiiU is already compromising the project. It is not coming for free.

Ive read dumb stuff but this is great....

 

[Durante]

I've made my arguments regarding a potential Wii U port much earlier in the thread, and I won't repeat them. Suffice it to say I agree with nynt9.

People thinking this will be a game that will push current gen systems are delusional. I expect Bloodstained to be a game that would easily run on a PS Vita.

I don't. Because it's a UE4 game.

What don't people get about that?

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Man this thread is a huge shit show now! Any actual news happening anytime soon?

Bar any exceptional developments, updates are scheduled on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays so...

 

[Dremark]

Pretty much. Contrary to what people in favor of the WiiU port seem to frame it as, I don't think anyone here actually hates the WiiU. Heck, I have one, bought it day 1, and I have Splatoon preordered and I'm very hyped for it. But considering the engine doesn't work on WiiU, we have these options:

1- Armature actually port UE4 to WiiU, which is a rather large undertaking and release a downgraded version of the game

2- Armature remake the game from scratch in a different or homebrew engine on WiiU and release a downgraded version of the game

Either way, the version on WiiU will be a poor version, and I don't know how many WiiU-only owners there will be in mid 2017, which is two years from now, who haven't either gotten a PC, PS4, Xbone, or upcoming Nintendo console, which will surely get a port equivalent to the PC/PS4 version of the game.

Either way, it's kind of a short sighted idea in my opinion, kind of a cynical move to get money from current WiiU owners who don't realize that the version they get won't be as good as the "intended" version of the game, and that their platform might essentially be defunct by the time the game actually comes out, and let's not even talk about the possibility of the game being delayed. It will require development resources, and I'm sure IGA's team and/or Armature are smart enough to have accounted for that money, but I can't help but feel that this is throwing money at a low-return, lower-quality product.

It's my opinion, and I'm ok if people disagree with it. There is little evidence that proves me or the opinion of those opposed to me right or wrong anyway. Time will tell. But at least I have a reasoned argument extrapolated from evidence and my work experience in programming. I'm not calling people names like some others here.

And for what it's worth, since someone implied that our input into this campaign should be measured by the size of our contribution, I'm $2k into this project, again, backed it day 1 at that amount.

I have a WiiU also. Not a huge fan of the design of the console (Game pad) but the games are good. Yeah the WiiU doesn't push the specs as hard but I doubt a WiiU version is really going to take much of a hit if the use Unreal 3 for it. WiiU is kind of at death's doorstep now, so it might not be profitable to put it on it, but that's not really my concern.

I think that they have the funding for the game they want to make, they are doing the port the right way by outsourcing it and it's in good hands with the team they chose. I don't personally see an issue from any angle I look at it from and I hope as many people as possible jump on this game and enjoy it.

 

[Theonik]

If Bloodstained doesn't make my PC spit hot lava clearly the developers have failed. /s

 

[Crocodile]

Has SOTN ever been on sale on PSN? Can I expect it to be on sale anytime soon? I want to replay the game but I don't have access to my PS1 Disc or PS2 so I just want to DL a version to my PS3 but I don't want to pay the full $10 :/

There are arguments regarding the port that haven't been "shot down". You might claim something won't be true, but that doesn't mean it won't be true. Considering the game is in an early concept stage, is 2 years (at least) from release and we've only seen about a dozen or so pieces of concept art, total, there is a lot that can go wrong. I'm not saying all concerns are valid, but I also won't say that all concerns are invalid. We're speculating here. This is a discussion board, it's the point. I'm not even concern trolling as I have no reason to. I don't legitimately think the game will be limited significantly by having a WiiU version. It might be, but I don't think it's a huge concern. But I do think it's important and valid to discuss these concerns so that we make them heard, and we have more reasonable expectations. While I've seen some poorly-thought concern troll posts, I've also seen several very aggressive (or very passive-aggressive) posts from WiiU owners trying to shut down all discussion on the subject. It's not a done deal. It's not "shot down". There are questions that people have, and more questions that people should have, and talking about them and answering them is good.

If someone is a primarily WiiU owner, these questions might seem irrelevant or even antagonistic towards their platform, but one must remember that the "intended" version of the game targets PC/PS4/XB1 on UE4, an engine that currently does not exist on the WiiU. That obviously raises question marks, and until the development procedure for the port is further clarified and the compromises made for that version clearly outlined, questions will continue to exist.

It's kind of a shitty way to think about it, but the nature of the WiiU port being a stretch goal handled by an outsourced company on a (most likely) different (or reduced version of the same) engine inherently relegates (or at least creates the perception of) WiiU backers into "second-class" backers and other backers into "first-class" backers, which is really the cause for all this conflict. It's unfortunate, but the way they planned and revealed the game inevitably led to this.

You're right in that we are still essentially in pre-production and that as with any project, there are certainly things that can go wrong. That will always be true. I'm mostly referring to the common arguments that I already outlined earlier. People are allowed to be irrational but I don't feel irrational opinions, and that's what I feel a lot of them are, hold a ton of weight. Just as it is 100% possible that I could get hit by a car if I step outside my apartment, its not realistic for me to expect that to happen on any given day. Given what we know now, which I admit could be a lot more, I believe IGA and his team are both sincere in what they say and competent enough to pull it through - the people involved have delivered many times in the past and I wouldn't give them a penny if I thought otherwise. I have no desire to stifle conversation. It's just that is what I mean when I say I feel the counterarguments right now are born of mostly of paranoia, cynicism or concern trolling.

As for 1st/2nd class backers for additional versions on different platforms - is that a real mentality?. Console ports often come secondary to Mac/Linux versions of games which usually come after PC versions of games. In the Kickstarters I've followed, I can only recall those getting the game on their platform of choice as a stretch goal being happy about it even if a feature or two might be reduced or missing.

Last October it went on sale for $4.99

Am I really going to have to wait till Halloween for a chance of a sale? FFS :/

 

[sixteen-bit]

Has SOTN ever been on sale on PSN?

Last October it went on sale for $4.99

 

[georly]

Man this thread is a huge shit show now! Any actual news happening anytime soon?

Yeah, this thread is hard to read sometimes. Lack of news does that. At least in the smash thread, it was 80% speculation (what character will be next, what items will return, etc). No speculation here, just a bunch of shitposting and arguing :/

So, to derail that, I present an article by Chris Kohler:

Just Kidding: This Game May Break the Kickstarter Record

You can quantify the difference here. Yooka-Laylee has over 20,000 more backers than Bloodstained, but they’ve pledged less money collectively. Bloodstained‘s average pledge per backer, according to Kicktraq, is currently $80. That’s significantly higher than every other Kickstarter in its range: Yooka-Laylee‘s is about $47. Torment‘s was $56. Project Eternity, the second most-funded game, was $54.

Basically he notes that future kickstarters may emulate bloodstained if it becomes the most successful, so expect kickstarters with social media achievements and mystery publishers and being run by a 3rd party (fangamer, in the case of bloodstained).

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Basically he notes that future kickstarters may emulate bloodstained if it becomes the most successful, so expect kickstarters with social media achievements and mystery publishers and being run by a 3rd party (fangamer, in the case of bloodstained).

I think it's more the tiers that set it apart. Lotta stuff I want here so I went a lot higher then I usually do.

mystery publishers and being run by a 3rd party I think have very little to do with it - fangamer have been pretty slow on updating/contact to be honest, though conceiving the achievements stuff, if it was their idea, was a masterstroke in terms of retaining interest.

 

[Theonik]

Basically he notes that future kickstarters may emulate bloodstained if it becomes the most successful, so expect kickstarters with social media achievements and mystery publishers and being run by a 3rd party (fangamer, in the case of bloodstained).

I hope they don't try to emulate these because the first two were some of the worst parts of this campaign, maybe with some work the social achievements could work though.
The big take from here for kickstarters is not to undersell their offerings. Average pledges go down significantly and you end up having really shit margins for a lot of the rewards once you put the fulfilment costs down and subtract any fees.

 

[georly]

I hope they don't try to emulate these because the first two were some of the worst parts of this campaign, maybe with some work the social achievements could work though.
The big take from here for kickstarters is not to undersell their offerings. Average pledges go down significantly and you end up having really shit margins for a lot of the rewards once you put the fulfilment costs down and subtract any fees.

I agree that the social media achievements are pretty awful. I get that they want to spread the word about their game, but basically 'threatening' to not include all the content or backer rewards if you don't spread the word of the kickstarter is kinda shady. "GIVE ME FAN ART OR YOU WONT GET A ONE INCH BUTTON"

I think the social achievements should be used for stuff like "if we get 1000 retweets, we'll show you this boss concept art we have," not "If we get 1000 retweets, we'll unlock the 3,000,000 wii u tier."

 

[Theonik]

I agree that the social media achievements are pretty awful. I get that they want to spread the word about their game, but basically 'threatening' to not include all the content or backer rewards if you don't spread the word of the kickstarter is kinda shady. "GIVE ME FAN ART OR YOU WONT GET A ONE INCH BUTTON"

I think the social achievements should be used for stuff like "if we get 1000 retweets, we'll show you this boss concept art we have," not "If we get 1000 retweets, we'll unlock the 3,000,000 wii u tier."

Not sure how I feel about the rewards being locked up behind them but stretchgoals shouldn't because that affects the project funding in very obvious ways when it outpaces their expectations. Just look at how the funding spiked every time they actually showed the goals...

What I'd like more of is stuff like the 'Iga cosplays' I think those are sufficient for most fans.

 

[PeterBazooka]

So what if, in the end, they decide not to use UE4 altogether and go with something compatible with the WiiU. Would people be pissed? (I personally don't see why it matters what tools they use. But then again I don't know much about these things.)

 

[shanafan]

Has SOTN ever been on sale on PSN?

I grabbed it from PS Plus for free a couple years ago.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012...auts-trine-2-rock-of-ages-pixeljunk-4am-beta/

 

[Sword Familiar]

Yooooooo! This boss concept art is sick! I love it!

Judging by Iga's description:

The 56th demon in Solomon’s grimoire. A demon with the status of a duke, also known as the goddess of the moon. Summoned by Gebel, this demon oversees one portion of the castle. She is capable of creating portals into different dimensions; once there, she can harness the power of the moon and use it to attack her enemies, firing endless crescent moon knives at her opponents. She also has a devastating gravity attack that's generated by power of the lacquer-black moon.

it seems this boss might be this game's version of Death.

 

[YuriLowell]

So Deep Silver owns all of this now?

This seems shady as fuck now.

 

[ShogunDarius]

do we have any idea what the stretch goal after wii u is or the pyrite coin one?

 

[OmegaDL50]

So Deep Silver owns all of this now?

This seems shady as fuck now.

What's so shady about it? We've known since the very beginning of the Kickstarter that Iga had a publisher on board and they would only help with funding if Iga at least raised 10% to prove to the publisher that demand for such a game actually existed, That amount being 500k.

Here's a question.

Is your dislike of Deep Silver stronger then the desire of Iga directing and making a spiritual successor to SOTN and the other games?

 

[Sword Familiar]

do we have any idea what the stretch goal after wii u is or the pyrite coin one?

Looks like some kind of 2-player mode involving a timer.

 

[Astral Dog]

Judging by Iga's description:



it seems this boss might be this game's version of Death.

insane concept art, but i dont like the face.

Spoiler

yeah, thats a dick

 

[YuriLowell]

What's so shady about it? We've known since the very beginning of the Kickstarter that Iga had a publisher on board and they would only help with funding if Iga at least raised 10% to prove to the publisher that demand for such a game actually existed, That amount being 500k.

Here's a question.

Is your dislike of Deep Silver stronger then the desire of Iga directing and making a spiritual successor to SOTN and the other games?

Yes my dislike of Deep Silver is strong.

 

[CaviarMeths]

It's kind of a shitty way to think about it, but the nature of the WiiU port being a stretch goal handled by an outsourced company on a (most likely) different (or reduced version of the same) engine inherently relegates (or at least creates the perception of) WiiU backers into "second-class" backers and other backers into "first-class" backers, which is really the cause for all this conflict. It's unfortunate, but the way they planned and revealed the game inevitably led to this.

Oh hey, it's Phil Spencer's excuse for why the XB1 parity clause exists.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

On the plus side, we're moving ever closer to everyone realizing that things should just all be on PC.

 

[Astral Dog]

Well to be fair, potentially, and this might not be a real concern, if IGA decided to make a huge seamless castle, or a very large area with many enemies, or an especially complicated boss battle, and Armature said "we can't do this on the WiiU", it would be unfortunate.

This isn't a likely scenario, but it's not utterly impossible.

Its going to be downgraded, of course, but even i dont think the Wii U is that weak to not handle most of the experience. major problem will be how they handle the engine, and the risk involved.

edit: like for example some loading screens and less enemies but its still going to be the same core game. Wii U is a gesture of goodwill

 

[Theonik]

On the plus side, we're moving ever closer to everyone realizing that things should just all be on PC.

Hopefully people realise that things should all just drop directX before this happens.

 

[nynt9]

Oh hey, it's Phil Spencer's excuse for why the XB1 parity clause exists.

Not really, there we're talking about the same game, just later. This situation is a downport of a game to a different engine made by a different studio. Why are people so eager to make ridiculous comparisons in this thread? Yesterday someone was comparing the WiiU vs PS4 version of this to Guacamelee, which is just as ridiculous because that was originally a Vita game, a system weaker than either.

 

[shanafan]

Not really, there we're talking about the same game, just later. This situation is a downport of a game to a different engine made by a different studio. Why are people so eager to make ridiculous comparisons in this thread? Yesterday someone was comparing the WiiU vs PS4 version of this to Guacamelee, which is just as ridiculous because that was originally a Vita game, a system weaker than either.

I made that comparison

I thought it was pretty neat seeing Guacamelee come to so many consoles/handhelds, and it kept the parity up throughout. It came out for both PS3 and Vita on the same day, but was it originally developed for the Vita then ported to the PS3? I thought it would have been the other way around.

 

[Lord Kefka]

I cant believe there are people who are upset about a nintendo console not getting a 3rd party game still. Its been like this since n64....you buy Nintendo for Nintendo and nothing else.

 

[Durante]

Hopefully people realise that things should all just drop directX before this happens.

All things should be on PC and use Vulkan.

 

[OmegaDL50]

Its going to be downgraded, of course, but even i dont think the Wii U is that weak to not handle most of the experience. major problem will be how they handle the engine, and the risk involved.

Being a a 2.5D perspective already dictates the kind of scope the game will have. We aren't getting something on the scale of Xenoblade X here. Or at least I would hope some people have some grounded expectations the sort of project and the kind of game Bloodstained is going to be.

Even if the game is slightly superior to Trine 2 visually, I don't think anyone would have an issue of that.

I mean this is what Trine 2 looks like on the Wii U (images sourced from Digital Foundry analysis of Trine 2)

Something like this with more gothic overtones and probably the character models replaced with 2D sprites with detailed 3D backgrounds. I don't think this is some unreachable goal that the Wii U incapable of.

 

[TheMoon]

Being a a 2.5D perspective already dictates the kind of scope the game will have. We aren't getting something on the scale of Xenoblade X here. Or at least I would hope some people have some grounded expectations the sort of project and the kind of game Bloodstained is going to be.

Even if the game is slightly superior to Trine 2 visually, I don't think anyone would have an issue of that.

I mean this is what Trine 2 looks like on the Wii U (images sourced from Digital Foundry analysis of Trine 2)

Something like this with more gothic overtones and probably the character models replaced with 2D sprites with detailed 3D backgrounds. I don't think this is some unreachable goal that the Wii U incapable of.

Nice that you bring up Xenoblade X here. The design compromise paranoia can be addressed by pointing at that game for example. Take the hypothetical gigantic seamless castle. Okay, someone thinks a Wii U couldn't handle a gigantic seamless 2.5D castle. Then we look at Xenoblade X, a seamless gigantic fully-3D world. Case closed. Then we move on to the "a ton of enemies on screen" in a 2.5D game and we point towards Hyurle Warriors or Pikmin 3 to see that 100+ enemies on screen in fully 3D games is no problem and that you can't even plut that many enemies on screen at the same time in a 2.5D game. Case closed. What next? What ridiculous imaginary design/scope else is there?

Can we please stop worrying and come to our senses?

 

[Nirolak]

I will reduce my pledge to the minimum if a Wii U version is reached. Not because I hate the Wii U (that's ridiculous, it's the only "next-gen" console I own), or because I'm concerned about the financial return of such a move (why would I care?) but because promising a port to any platform not officially supported by the engine they are going to use makes me question their focus on providing the best possible game -- rather than getting funding out of the most possible people and worrying about "details" like technical viability later.

The reason I was confident in the technical quality of this project -- despite considering the developers far from technical Wizards -- was that they were using a great engine (UE4) on platforms which are officially supported by it and offer enough headroom to forgive some mistakes. With Wii U (or any other port to something lower-end) that goes out of the window.

I'm confused. How is this Inti Creates' problem if it's being done by an outsource studio?

Like I'm under the impression all of zero fucks were given about the handheld versions of Mighty Number 9 when they were outsourced to the extent they're not even the same game.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Yes my dislike of Deep Silver is strong.

so it's just you not liking them and nothing is actually shady

 

[CaviarMeths]

Not really, there we're talking about the same game, just later. This situation is a downport of a game to a different engine made by a different studio. Why are people so eager to make ridiculous comparisons in this thread? Yesterday someone was comparing the WiiU vs PS4 version of this to Guacamelee, which is just as ridiculous because that was originally a Vita game, a system weaker than either.

I'm just poking at your faux concern over the Wii U audience. You backed well before the announcement, and a significant amount, so I'm sure that your sights are set on the PC/PS4/XB1 version anyway. You don't have to pretend to be so concerned about Wii U owners. They can and do speak for themselves.

 

[x3sphere]

I'm confused. How is this Inti Creates' problem if it's being done by an outsource studio?

Like I'm under the impression all of zero fucks were given about the handheld versions of Mighty Number 9 when they were outsourced to the extent they're not even the same game.

I'm guessing since it could eat into the games overall budget? It's not directly their problem of course, but if porting doesn't go as smoothly as planned and more resources need to devoted to the Wii U version as a result, that could result in compromises to the base game.

You would hope they already thought this through, on the viability of a Wii U port. But there's no way to know for sure. So in my opinion, it comes down to how much you trust the devs.

 

[Moofers]

Anyone worried about wether the Wii U can handle it has never seen or played DK Tropical Freeze. It's gonna be fine. This is IGA's baby. He's not going to make some gameboy-ass version of it. If he says it runs on Wii U then who are you to question it?