Marvels Secret Wars by Hickman & Ribic |OT| Everything ends... Everything begins
- Thread starter Mudcrab
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MHWilliams
Member
googleplex
Member
Cyclops was the bloke that got the power of Pheonix and stopped wars, feed millions of starving people, turned deserts into farmland, and gave the world and clean energy source.
All of which Captain America and crew actively tried to stop for....er.. reasons.
Cyclops was Right. Fuck Captain America and the Avengers.
Wait a minute, didn't we as a species had an agreement to ignore the Chuck Austen run on X-Men?
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
We do not speak of Chuck Austen.
EDIT: See?
EDIT: See?
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
cyclops was lucky, not right
googleplex
Member
Name one hero or one instance where the hero saved the world and didn't get lucky or because of some crazy plot device?
Fortunately Cyclops was both lucky and Right.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
A guy who has 100 different plans to try to stop omnipotent beings and who turns Iceman into the most effective vampire hunter in existence makes his own "luck."
Dude got infinite power and he couldn't do the one thing he wanted the phoenix for.
Who cares about Captain America, he's a dude with a shield.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
That doesnt change a thing. He was lucky, not right. Had the avengers not interefered, they would have had a bad time on their hands
That doesnt change the fact that his put the phoenix into a young girl would have blown up in his face.
You want to stan for him, fine. But you should at least see that for what it was, a lucky break.
googleplex
Member
Such a badass.
I'll never understand why a certain segment of comic fans hate this guy so much. I mean besides the fact that he never let Wolverine fuck his wife.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
I think noone other than claremont wants that.
googleplex
Member
Oh don't get me started on that utter bullshit. Hope trains with Cable all her life to be the host of phoenix. Trains with cyclops to be the host of Phoenix. But somehow she wasn't ready because she needed to train with Spider-man for 2 days? talk about ass pull plot devices!
And let not forget that if Cyclops would have let the Cap and the Avengers have their way Hope would be dead and the earth a smoking husk.
No matter how you slice it Cyclops was right from beginning to end.
MHWilliams
Member
Forgiveness.
Seeing as she died rocking the Phoenix and the end of Morrison's run was her getting Cyke laid to protect the future... she probably wouldn't be afraid of him.
Cable was training her to survive a world that had gone to shit, I still don't understand what Cyclop's training was other than constantly yelling at her that she's the chosen one. Neither of which I don't really think made her anymore ready for Phoenix than anything else.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
How is cable supposed to train someone to prepare for the phoenix though? especially more than two actual hosts on earth? And i recognize that cap and crew would have handled it bad too, but two wrongs dont magically make a right. And she didnt just train with spider man, it was iron fist as well. Ans even then she still needed wanda for backup. All of which were under the avengers camp. This is one of those events where things would have gone better if everyone had talked it out.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Whether right or wrong Cyke is a much much more interesting character now than he ever was as Xaviers dutiful son.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Naw son. The cyclops run proves this false.
googleplex
Member
Not to mention a much more interesting character after upgrading from Jean to Emma. I know I'm probably in the minority here but:
Cyclops & Emma >>>>>>> Cyclops & Jean Grey
That Cyclops having space adventures with his real dad. Not that asshole Chuck.
The Silver
Member
Cyclops was right and lucky during AvX, he was right about the Phoenix and Hope, he got lucky because for some reason Wanda anfd Danny was needed for magic nonsense or whatever I don't remember.
I can't blame Cyke, the way the Avengers rolled in deep on Utopia, aching for a fight, what the fuck did they expect him to do? Damn Wolverine putting poison in Cap's ear.
I can't blame Cyke, the way the Avengers rolled in deep on Utopia, aching for a fight, what the fuck did they expect him to do? Damn Wolverine putting poison in Cap's ear.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
At one point I had nearly 30 years of X-Men comics.The original run, the misadventures of Slymm and Redd, to his rebirth after the Apocy possession.
He was always a jobber. The straight man to Wolverines unhinged rebel.
He sucked. He was barely a character. I'd take this version of him any day over that... distinct lack of characterization.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I agree, if for nothing else than that coincided with writers giving all the characters new dimensions. Cyclops had been in a holding pattern since the cartoon solidified his characterization as a boring boy scout, something he hadn't really been previously. I think that if that run hadn't killed Jean off, the pairing could have been given new life.
googleplex
Member
I've never like Jean, particularly how everyone in the room lost 50 I.Q. points when ever she was around.
With that said, I really like time displaced teen Jean. She dose fucked up shit, and is kind of a cunt, but her behavior is totally understandable given the messed up situation she's found herself in.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Jean and Scott's wedding issue was pretty righteous. But this is comics and nobody except Sue and Reed are allowed to be married/happy for long. By mandate, in DCs case.
The Silver
Member
no one man can have all these terrible opinions, stop messing with me
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
So all those fans of his before whedon got to him are just fans of a dude with lack of characterization? i loved the clean honest character that he was. He and alex were two of my favorite characters at one point
Luke and jessica are married. For now anyway
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Shit, I've been arguing with a guy who had Alex Summers as a fav. Feel like a MLB ringer at a tee ball tourney now.
Are you worried that Mephisto will decide to visit?
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
....youre one of those people..
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Alex Summers is, and always will be, just the worst.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
I think you have alex confused with gabe
I'll never get over that stupid ass speech in Uncanny Avengers.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Nah, that was just me being an ass.
I just never liked the character. He was either the good son to Xavier, the love sick puppy following Jean around, or the self-doubt stricken leader. None of which made for interesting characterization to me.
I like him more now that he's his own character. With interesting flaws. Instead of trite and tired flaws. Morrison's characterization of the relationship between him and Jean, and his trauma after the Apoc possession gave the character a bend I found entertaining.
Sorry for being dickish before. We definitely disagree though Parallax.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Well, that's like comparing a ham-and-mayo sandwich (the worst) to like, kicking puppies in the face (also the worst).
Alex is the ham sandwich in this analogy.
Case in point.
Logan had the only permission be needed: Jean's.
excelsiorlef
Member
Hell yeah, Teen Jean is the shit..
Fuck Cyclops and his revolution.
excelsiorlef
Member
That speech makes made Alex Summers the all time worst mutant ever. What's worse is that Remender actually wrote this as a good thing (Alex is supposed to be the hero in that speech blech), it wasn't even an attempt to examine how fucked up it is for a minority to outwardly sell out his people.
God that speech is awful.
God that speech is awful.
Kitty Pryde's rebuttal was incredible.
excelsiorlef
Member
The Silver
Member
hey, stop using them "M-word"
excelsiorlef
Member
God it's just so fucking ridiculous. I mean mutant already had a slur attached to it in muttie, Alex basically went up and said don't call me gay that's a slur, don't call me black that's a slur, don't call me trans that's a slur, etc...
Remender is a moron.
You know I was thinking all this talk of separating the X-Men from the rest of the Marvel universe could be interesting, if they (without wiping out all x-men continuity) put them on an earth where mutants are the only super powered people, it would make the oppression angle more effective I think. It'd be interesting.
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