Marvels Secret Wars by Hickman & Ribic |OT| Everything ends... Everything begins
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WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
So, to maybe accidently bring this somewhat back on topic, is that what we're all assuming the end result of this is? The end of the Ultimate universe, with the merging of popular characters from there to the 616 (which is confirmed, right?) and the separating of universes like mutants in one, etc?
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Ultimate Universe will definitely be done after this. However, I don't really think they are going to shunt the X-Men into their own universe.
I'm not sure. In theory, but that kinda undermines Uncanny Avengers which only works because it's an X-Men/Avengers team. I guess they could do an Avengers/Inhumans team, but they don't seem established enough...
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
To be fair, Uncanny Avengers didn't work at all anyway, so no big loss there. But this can't all be just the end of the Ultimate universe, can it? 2 years of story telling and 2 entire lines of books with wars and shit thrown in, just to end a universe people stopped caring about 5 years ago?
Exactly, salvage whats worth it and get rid of the rest.
oh, i missed this. Yep
Marvel fucked up Ultimate universe themselves, first with Ultimates 3/Ultimatum, when they screwed up too much of things, and than with updating the main universe, making it more modern, which made the ultimate versions absolete.
Apart from Miles and evil Richards i don't know what left there that would be worth saving.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Yeah, no that part is rad. It just seems a bit overblown just to bring over Nick Fury and Miles Morales over the 616.
They should have done that a while ago, instead of the dumb shit they pulled with 616 Fury.
excelsiorlef
Member
Another thing where was Captain fucking America when Sentinels at the order of his precious government exterminating mutants, passing a Mutant Registration Law (no big deal until it is his rights being violated eh?) , and every other government sanctioned racist anti-mutant action.
And then the genocides, one of which was by someone on his team.
For a guy who stood for the rights of the oppressed he failed mutants, and then he put goddamn Alex "M-Word" Summers up as his apology/olive branch?
Get real.
edit: Ooops sorry took me so long to write this didn't know we were back on track. Proceed
Indeed, but what's done is done sadly.
Are there any others worth bringing over do you think?
And then the genocides, one of which was by someone on his team.
For a guy who stood for the rights of the oppressed he failed mutants, and then he put goddamn Alex "M-Word" Summers up as his apology/olive branch?
Get real.
edit: Ooops sorry took me so long to write this didn't know we were back on track. Proceed
Indeed, but what's done is done sadly.
Are there any others worth bringing over do you think?
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Another thing where was Captain fucking America when Sentinels at the order of his precious government exterminating mutants, passing a Mutant Registration Law (no big deal until it is his rights being violated eh?) , and every other government sanctioned racist anti-mutant action.
And then the genocides, one of which was by someone on his team.
For a guy who stood for the rights of the oppressed he failed mutants, and then he put goddamn Alex "M-Word" Summers up as his apology/olive branch?
Get real.
edit: Ooops sorry took me so long to write this didn't know we were back on track. Proceed
Alex is one of the good ones though. He's so well-spoken.
EDIT: Uh, the Maker is definitely coming over too, but is there any other Ultimate clones worth giving a shit about? I can't think of any.
I pray they don't just go "Oh yeah they been here all along" bullshit.
Make them know they are from a different universe and call out the differences.
Is Ultimate WOlverine's kid still alive?
Make them know they are from a different universe and call out the differences.
Is Ultimate WOlverine's kid still alive?
excelsiorlef
Member
So what you are saying is that Cyclops was......
Ha ha ha, eloquent or not fuck that guy
On topic: Definitely keep The Maker from the Ultimate universe as well. Lol looking at the list who else do you keep?
Maybe Miles' supporting cast that aren't tied to Peter?
Ultimate Jessica Drew could be cool she's not even really a counterpart to 616 Jessica Drew (being a Peter clone) and she's not dead so.
Mach II could be thrown in with the X-men and other mutants (could be interesting being the only surviving mutant of her universe?)
Ultimate Kitty maybe since 616 Kitty is going to probably cosmic and at least travelling in space for like a long time.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
He is, but I don't think he ever caught on. He does have the bonus that there's no overlap with a 616 character, which is the biggest thing dooming Ultimate Pete and his support cast.
I thought Ultimate Ben Grimm has some potential as well, but then Humphries did a really stupid thing where he completely undid the neat twist Bendis had for his rock form. Ultimate Rick Jones is also still active, but they probably don't need any extra young characters named Nova.
Cap is just shortsighted
Would be nice to have a Wolverine related character that isn't fucked up or batshit crazy. Granted I haven't read Ultimate Jimmy since his origin.
What was the twist?
excelsiorlef
Member
Yeah Ultimate Captain America is the monster as it pertains to mutants.
But 616 Cap is still no friend of the mutants.
If they can make it work that'd be awesome. They're good characters.
The A on Cap's helmet is not an A, it's the Aryan symbol for 'Cyclops was wrong.'
excelsiorlef
Member
Yes but did they try being Alexs instead of mutants? XD
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
His rock form was the shell/cocoon for a superior purple energy form. Then Humphries was all "lol no and had him power up to the rock form in battle as an on and off transformation. It's like a chicken would armor up by summoning his egg.
excelsiorlef
Member
Dude cool! Shitty they undid that, he'd make for a different enough character to bring over.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
It would also make sense not to fully isolate Ultimate Reed and give him someone he has history with to play of off.
excelsiorlef
Member
Ohh how about Ultimate Sue Storm? Have her change her look to differentiate and hook her up with Namor or Doom just to fuck with The Maker and even bother regu,lar Reed even if it isn't his Sue LOL
excelsiorlef
Member
Depends on what the universe is, just mutants? Yeah no pointless A universe where they are the only ones with powers (other than say aliens and high tech and shit) could be interesting.
And Cap was wrong
Heh for the Team Cyclops kids:
https://marvel.com/cards/127/marvels_may_2015_hero_of_the_month_cyclops
https://marvel.com/cards/127/marvels_may_2015_hero_of_the_month_cyclops
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
and yet how is he supposed to train someone for something he has no idea about?
dont be fooled into thinking cyclops is some savior. ask all those people living in the sewers, or those kids that got KO'd on the bus after m day
Cable had, for years, a tech-organic virus. He refused to use his full power set because he didn't want the infection to spread. And was still ridiculously powerful. I'd say he's the perfect person to reach Hope how to use the power without letting the power destroy you and turn you into something you don't want to be.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
the phoenix isnt something you can train about on second hand knowledge. he could probably have lifted providence for years and still not be able to help with the energy overload.
excelsiorlef
Member
How is the Bus Cyke's fault? That was Stryker, the same Stryker that openly called for and tried to orechestrate Mutant genocide while no one but mutants did anything to try and stop him.
As for sewers do you mean the Morlock Massacre? Again how is that Cyke's fault?
He's not perfect but he's trying to do stuff for mutants which is more than I can say for the non mutant heroes.
My point was he could teach her how to deal with controlling power. Would it be enough? Well, given how AvX went I think it's fair to say Cable raising Hope made her stronger than she'd otherwise be. That isn't to knock Cyclops, Spider-Man or Iron Fist (all of who helped), but I don't think the few weeks/few months that AvX is set over did anything more than get her that extra 10% of the way.
Could she have handled it regardless? We'll never know.
But the point is that Spider-Man got her the last 10%. I don't think 'hey, responsibility' without Cable training her/Scott helping her is going to be enough to control a friggin' cosmic entity.
The only reason the Maker would end up in 616 after Secret Wars is because Hickman is interested in using him down the road in whatever he does next. I don't think he gives a shit about the rest of the Ultimate Fantastic Four. Also, why start having duplicates of a bunch of characters who Marvel barely allows to have an ongoing series as it is?
5 people care about Ultimate Sue or Ultimate Ben.
5 people care about Ultimate Sue or Ultimate Ben.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Wonder if Hickman has made tentative return plans with Marvel yet. We know he's taking at least a 6 months break after this.
The Maker is interesting, the rest not so much.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
because he put a bunch on non powered kids on a bus, fully knowing that there are dudes out there trying to kill them. its like throwing birds who cant fly to a pack of wolves. his fault
and for the morlocks, he claims to be one for all mutants, but if you dont have those supermodel looks, you cant ride with him. didnt you find it odd that at his new school there were no abnormal looking students? storm made all the moves he should have done for someone making that claim. his fault
noones perfect, but noone else has people saying their faves have a plan for everything either.
and the captain america being a monster is so off base it isnt funny. he wasnt a puppet for the govt until he got old. he went by the captain and nomad, because he didnt believe in some of the things the us govt was doing at the time.
where do iron fist and wanda exist in that 90%? because she would have been up a creek without a paddle with those two
so what is that saying about the training she recieved? like i said, cable has his facets, but i dont think accepting a cosmic psychic energy beast is one of them. especially when hes been trying to reject the legacy virus
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
But apparently Mighty Whitey can teach her in 3 days. With some help from a guy who sold his marriage to a supermodel to the devil to save the life of a 87 year old woman.
Primo writing, Marvel.
bengraven
Member
God I remember this issue. It was free as an insert or some other comic (or maybe one of the first FCBDs?). I remember reading it and going "these guys get the concept of the FF" and wanted to keep up.
Waid and Weiringo. RIP Mr. Weiringo.
I feel like all y'all are completely forgetting the conclusion of AvX as far as Hope is concerned. Cyclops was wrong, the Avengers were wrong, everyone was wrong. Hope wasn't ready to host the phoenix when it showed up because no one realized the only viable option would be for her to give it up again. The was the whole point of her story arc. And let's not also conveniently forget that for all the good the phoenix 5 were doing in the world, it would have inevitably led to them burning the whole thing down. So what exactly was Cyclops right about? Hope wasn't ready, the 5 couldn't handle the phoenix, the Avengers were jackasses, wolverine thinks stabbing is always the best solution, Tony thinks making a gun is always the best solution, and Cap might as well have been ignorant of the entirety of mutant history. AvX was fucking terrible.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
noones gonna hear you. ive been saying that this whole time, but its still cyclops=right
cap=racist monster.
It wasn't a free insert. They just made that issue of Fantastic Four 12 cents.
googleplex
Member
Ganki and Ultimate Jessica Drew are worth four 616's
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
honestly, all of petes/miles supporting cast could make it over as far as im concerned. sue and ben could eat rocks though
bengraven
Member
That's right!
It was one of my rare "every six months" trip to the comic shop an hour away and they had a stack of them on the counter. For twelve cents I'll support Mark Waid was my thought.
God that was forever ago.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
#cyclopswasright
#parallaxwaswrong
#parallaxwaswrong
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