Caitlyn Jenner poses on the cover of Vanity Fair
- Thread starter statham
- Start date
- Status
Very true.
Searching for transgender info on the internet is not work safe unfortunately but here is the type of stories/images that I think would be more helpful then Caitlyn in a fashion shoot.
Starting at #4.
http://www.oddee.com/item_98038.aspx
Gold_Loot
Member
Honestly, I don't think it's anything to get too worked up about as long as the person in question is respectful to the the one who changed their sex .
For me, personally, I see a man. I would refer to that person as a man in my own mind, BUT with that being said, If I were hanging out with Kaitlin I would refer to her is a she out of respect of what she wants out of life..
I don't think there's any ill will here (As long as there's respect). It's more a glass half empty, half full.
I think most people will point out to you that not using someone's preferred pronouns is pretty disrespectful to them.
yes! i knew she reminded me of someone.
some really questionable photoshopping in the crotch area, btw.
That's the thing though, using the wrong pronouns despite that person asking to be referred to by those pronouns is not respectful.
It's an accident if someone does it without knowing, it's purposefully disrespectful if they refuse to do it.
What you said is correct, you would call them a female, even if you still think of them as male, that's respectful.
What he was saying is that he wouldn't do that, he would call her male.
Would you find it disrespectful if someone was calling you she when you think of yourself as a he (or vice versa)
The matter of pronouns is really damn simple, and anyone refusing to use the correct one is being intentionally difficult.
excelsiorlef
Member
Ok so
1) To folks asking how do transgender genitals work? Look it up on google like you have this vast free encyclopedia of knowledge but feel that you just must ask and speculate about Caitlyn's genitals in a thread about her just being her. Don't do that. Stop making everything about genitals. Look it up. Educate yourselves and if you are amazingly still confused keep reading. There's so much trans 101 stuff out there it's ridiculous. You wouldn't go into a thread about a Baseball player reaching some career milestone and start asking about how baseball works. So don't do that shit here.
2) DON'T EVER EVER EVER IMPLY TRANS WOMEN ARE NOT REAL WOMEN. Do not question their style choices in such a way as to reject their identity, as to dehumanize them or imply that they aren't really trans and are just human dolls or men in dresses or stereotypes and caricatures. If you think you're making some salient point? News flash you aren't.
3) To people being all ummmm errrr using proper pronouns make me uncomfortable I'm just never going to do it. Cut the crap. If it bothers you that much keep it to yourself instead of wearing your assholery like a badge of honour as if to say I'm a rebel! You're not a rebel, you're a jerk. To people saying we shouldn't condemn said jerks and instead support them so they'll grow ? No. We don't treat overt and proud racists with kid gloves so let's not treat overt and proud transphobes with kid gloves.
I'm going to give you an extreme example of why pronouns are important, call it unlikely but it is rooted in 100% possibility:
You have a trans woman friend, she has finally decided to transition and as part of that all but has no choice to come out to you. So she does and starts to live as herself for the first time 24/7. However, she's told the people she knows that she's trans but isn't going around telling everyone she meets or sees or encounters that she's trans. No you're in a bar and you're all hanging out as a group and you meet a group of strangers and everyone hits it off. So you're hanging out all together and someone from that group leans to you and says hey your friend is pretty cool she's super smart/funny/pretty/interesting/whatever and because you're a fucking selfish asshole you say yeah he's pretty cool, and proceed to say he/him/his through our. Congrats dick weed you just outed your friend. Now maybe it goes well maybe this new group ignores your transphobia, maybe they even convine her to drop you and they all take off together and gace a great night whilst leaving your bigoted ass in the wond. Or maybe they're disgusted and when they see her go into or come out of the Womens bathroom and decidex they need to teach that freak a lesson and beat her to death. Congratulations your selfish inability to use a measly fucking pronoun just got your friend murdered.
Or maybe it's not even that extreme. Maybe your friend is so unlucky that you're the only person who she can come out to (as in no other friends and overtly bigoted parents) and she does and your response is to deny her identity and call her he all the time. So now your friend conludes that no one will ever accept her that she'll have to live out her life in shame and secret, as a lie, so she ends her pain. Congratulations you're selfish bigotry just helped drive your friend to suicide.
Now if you read all that and say well I'd never do that to a friend! Then why do you think it's cool to do it to a stranger
1) To folks asking how do transgender genitals work? Look it up on google like you have this vast free encyclopedia of knowledge but feel that you just must ask and speculate about Caitlyn's genitals in a thread about her just being her. Don't do that. Stop making everything about genitals. Look it up. Educate yourselves and if you are amazingly still confused keep reading. There's so much trans 101 stuff out there it's ridiculous. You wouldn't go into a thread about a Baseball player reaching some career milestone and start asking about how baseball works. So don't do that shit here.
2) DON'T EVER EVER EVER IMPLY TRANS WOMEN ARE NOT REAL WOMEN. Do not question their style choices in such a way as to reject their identity, as to dehumanize them or imply that they aren't really trans and are just human dolls or men in dresses or stereotypes and caricatures. If you think you're making some salient point? News flash you aren't.
3) To people being all ummmm errrr using proper pronouns make me uncomfortable I'm just never going to do it. Cut the crap. If it bothers you that much keep it to yourself instead of wearing your assholery like a badge of honour as if to say I'm a rebel! You're not a rebel, you're a jerk. To people saying we shouldn't condemn said jerks and instead support them so they'll grow ? No. We don't treat overt and proud racists with kid gloves so let's not treat overt and proud transphobes with kid gloves.
I'm going to give you an extreme example of why pronouns are important, call it unlikely but it is rooted in 100% possibility:
You have a trans woman friend, she has finally decided to transition and as part of that all but has no choice to come out to you. So she does and starts to live as herself for the first time 24/7. However, she's told the people she knows that she's trans but isn't going around telling everyone she meets or sees or encounters that she's trans. No you're in a bar and you're all hanging out as a group and you meet a group of strangers and everyone hits it off. So you're hanging out all together and someone from that group leans to you and says hey your friend is pretty cool she's super smart/funny/pretty/interesting/whatever and because you're a fucking selfish asshole you say yeah he's pretty cool, and proceed to say he/him/his through our. Congrats dick weed you just outed your friend. Now maybe it goes well maybe this new group ignores your transphobia, maybe they even convine her to drop you and they all take off together and gace a great night whilst leaving your bigoted ass in the wond. Or maybe they're disgusted and when they see her go into or come out of the Womens bathroom and decidex they need to teach that freak a lesson and beat her to death. Congratulations your selfish inability to use a measly fucking pronoun just got your friend murdered.
Or maybe it's not even that extreme. Maybe your friend is so unlucky that you're the only person who she can come out to (as in no other friends and overtly bigoted parents) and she does and your response is to deny her identity and call her he all the time. So now your friend conludes that no one will ever accept her that she'll have to live out her life in shame and secret, as a lie, so she ends her pain. Congratulations you're selfish bigotry just helped drive your friend to suicide.
Now if you read all that and say well I'd never do that to a friend! Then why do you think it's cool to do it to a stranger
I find this ugly beyond description. I almost puked.
It is "ill will" in saying that you see a man.
RandyBobandy
Banned
Well shit now I need to look
Princess Carl
Member
ginger ninja
Banned
She looks so beautiful *swoon*
I am really happy for her, the pre transition interview really did a number on me, emotionally.
I am really happy for her, the pre transition interview really did a number on me, emotionally.
DOWN
Banned
Get over yourself and have some decency.
What you don't seem to be realizing is how disrespectful it is to not call someone by their preferred pronoun. You're refusing to acknowledge how they self-identify. It's like me going out of my way not to call a biracial half white/black person "black," even if they view themselves that way. Instead of acknowledging their self-identity, their cultural background, and how race/ethnicity are seen in the United States, for some reason I would be latching onto this technical and, in the end, still subjective way of defining someone else. It's inherently disrespectful.
Now, obviously you're free to use whichever pronouns you wish, and yes, ultimately I would personally emphasize your overall attitude toward this person you don't seem to understand. But when we talk about respect, compassion, etc., it's hard to imagine how you can approach someone with a spirit of empathy and yet refuse to even call them by the gender pronoun they personally identity with.
block tower
Member
was confused as to who Caitlyn Jenner was. Was thinking I didn't know about another Jenner kid. Then I saw the photo and still had no clue lol. Then it hit.. Bruce Jenner is Caitlyn Jenner. That was a mindfuck lol. She looks really good, attractive and what you'd expect a celeb to look like after the process. I'm sure there's gonna be some bigots that are out there confused as to why they find her attractive haha 
so that's a positive . Glad she's out and comfortable .
Btw I honestly think she looks much closer in similarity to Julian Moore .
so that's a positive . Glad she's out and comfortable .Btw I honestly think she looks much closer in similarity to Julian Moore .
I'm sorry, I respect trans people but I'm entitled to express my opinion.
Wish him the best of course in his new self.
Diablo Rosso
Member
How is someone making their looks match how they feel inside "ugly"?
Yeah.. real respectful.
When you see an androgynous person, you may assume their gender. If it is revealed that their gender is not what you assumed, would you still refer to that person as whatever your initial assumption was in your own mind?
DoktorEvil
Banned
There's a preview button next to the post button.
Read this back to yourself and explain how it doesn't make you look bad.
Good troll I guess.
excelsiorlef
Member
Oh come the fuck on.
If your idea of respect is "almost puking" at the sight of the person and ignoring her wishes to be treated with the right pronoums than I don't want to know how it is for you not to respect someone
ginger ninja
Banned
"I am not racist but.."
This doesn't sound like respect. I mean, if you were sayin "She's an ugly woman" that would have made you sound horrible, but the way you worded the sentence is a ton of hate bricks falling from the skies.
The Last Wizard
Member
Same, I was thinking "wait I didn't know Bruce had a daughter". Also she looks very familiar.
That paragraph in the op is weird as isnt Caitlyn normally spelled this way? Seems like they just wanted to find a way to tie it to the kardashian's.
excelsiorlef
Member
Plenty if Kaitlyns. There are also Kaitlins too.
I'm really sorry for having offended anyone. That was not my intention, neither was it to troll.
I find her really, really ugly and I think I can express that opinion. This is allowed as far as I'm aware. I was in no way shape or form commenting on the fact of changing sex, I was commenting on how she looks now.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Glad she's finally able to do this! Kudos.
As far as the surgery is concerned, I'm not a fan. Not because i don't think a man should not become a woman or vice versa but because there are so many issues associated with it, that I ultimately worry about the mental well being of the patients. I just hope the patients are prepared to deal with the side effects both mentally and physically.
Btw this goes for most surgeries, but especially this one.
Edited to make clearer what i mean
As far as the surgery is concerned, I'm not a fan. Not because i don't think a man should not become a woman or vice versa but because there are so many issues associated with it, that I ultimately worry about the mental well being of the patients. I just hope the patients are prepared to deal with the side effects both mentally and physically.
Btw this goes for most surgeries, but especially this one.
Edited to make clearer what i mean
Gordon Shumway
Banned
lol..accurate.
Then why didn't you say that in the first place instead of a vague, hyperbolic shit post?
Did you not read the atmosphere of the thread before posting what definitely sounded like a transphobic comment with no context?
Every time this thread is getting away from issues with dealing with pronouns, it gets dragged back again by a new poster.
Come on, when in doubt use them/they, English is a neutral as fuck language when it comes to pronouns and word gender, why's everyone struggling so hard with this?
Come on, when in doubt use them/they, English is a neutral as fuck language when it comes to pronouns and word gender, why's everyone struggling so hard with this?
Garrett Hawke
Member
The whole "I don't want to use their chosen pronouns" thing is so stupid
If you thought someone was called Becky and then they informed you that they were actually called Natasha would you keep calling them Becky?
If you thought someone was called Becky and then they informed you that they were actually called Natasha would you keep calling them Becky?
I only learned who this person was recently as she's constantly been the news online over the last year or so and I'm in the UK so she's not really a well known figure here.
But it does seem like this could well be a key moment for spreading transgender awareness and I'm really glad to see how positively the internet seems to have reacted to her coming out.
I'm very pleased for her and wish her and all transgender people all the peace and happiness in the world.
But it does seem like this could well be a key moment for spreading transgender awareness and I'm really glad to see how positively the internet seems to have reacted to her coming out.
I'm very pleased for her and wish her and all transgender people all the peace and happiness in the world.
The Last Wizard
Member
Never seen it that way, the more you know huh.
Yea, she looks like Jessica Lange but I still feel she looks like someone else.
I thought that was obvious enough.
My bad, I didn't want it to come across as such. :/
Don't worry though, I can hear the ban hammer....
Piss off.
Amazing how you guys can keep lying to yourselves in this way. There's a difference between respect and toleration.
Princess Carl
Member
Nothing like bigotry to attempt to make yourself relevant.
- Status