Indie Games 2015 [June] Now Voting - Post 423!

Yeah what OFN said.

Had a look through my bundles and downloaded anything that isnt on steam and going to make sure i've redeemed or raffled any indie royal of my keys

Any of the regulars here interested in a Treeker The Lost Glasses Desura key?
 
Glyphs - 2016
CGwXW2pUAAA1wf2.png

http://legit-games.com/

Glyphs is a 2D open-world fantasy RPG, following the story of Elias as he travels across a variety of treacherous landscapes on a quest to reforge the enchanted relics known as Glyphs and restore order to the land of Eldamir.

Crest - $4.99 (PC, Mac, Linux)
CGzbdE8XEAAF-vm.jpg

http://store.steampowered.com/app/341710

Did god shape mankind, or did mankind shape god? Welcome to Crest, a god game where you are as a parent to your children. Your only way of communication with your subjects is commandments you write for them. How these commandments are interpreted and remembered are not set in stone. What you write and what experiences they have with the environment is the basis for their religion. You might find that your people will change on their own accord over time and use your commandments for their own devices.

Doko Roko - ????
thundah.gif

http://okobugames.com/doko-roko/

Doko Roko is a rogue-like, vertical platformer about strange magicks, weird swords, and the spread and mutation of ideas.

Into The Light - Free demo (PC, Mac, Linux)
CG1JU2FWcAEEmT0.jpg

http://mindechoes.com/

Wake up into a strange world, everything around you is completely dark, looks like an empty place, but, is it really?
Travel around this world, exploring a series of mazes, avoiding the dangers the mazes have, while you try to solve the different puzzles using a diverse sets of mechanics that your flare (the only resource you have) provides you.

Epistory - PC, Mac, Linux
tiles_reveal2_part1.gif

http://www.indiedb.com/games/epistory/

Epistory is the story of a writer in lack of inspiration who decides to ask for help to the muse of his book. Epistory immerses you in an atmospheric third person action / adventure in 3D which has the particularity of only being played with the keyboard. In this game you play the muse, a fictional character in a world where everything is still to imagine/write. Your adventure begins on a blank page, but the world will soon become larger and more alive as you gather inspiration, face enemies and solve its mysteries. All is done with the keyboard, each interaction being carried out by typing words related to it. Each interactive element has its own way of being typed: without making any mistake to unlock a door, as fast as possible to load a dynamo, with one hand holding SHIFT and the other hand typing, and so on! You also fight enemies and obstacles using the powers of fire, ice, electricity and wind.

Legacy of the Copper Skies - PC
CGynsWSUgAAqqAw.png

http://www.horribleunicorngamestudios.com/copperskies/

Legacy of the Copper Skies is a classic action adventure game set in both the dark, industrial world of Grimstad and the lush, verdant Ebura. Players must take control of both Tir and Isen and use their unique gameplay mechanics to explore, solve puzzles, and fight in order to save their worlds from annihilation.

Firma - 2015
lq16x9z.jpg

firmagame.com

FIRMA is a virtual reality, arcade sim where you take control of the fast and manoeuvrable TL-6 Transit Lander over a hundred years in the future. Inspired by the control and handling based gameplay of Jupiter Lander with the heavy industrial aesthetics and pick up and play feel of the original Doom, FIRMA sees you play through a variety of missions in a single player, story led campaign on the Moon, Mars and a surprise, dystopian finale.

The Raven and the Light - PC, Mac, Linux
CG1Ok4hUAAIBPKr.png

http://www.theravenandthelight.com/

The Raven and the Light is an upcoming short psychological story based horror game taking place in a dark time in Canada's past.

Bleak Fortress - ????
CG0kOZQXAAAoZS6.png

http://www.pyroswarm.com/games/bleakfortress

Bleak Fortress is a retro futuristic 2D stealth platformer game that mix ideas from other games such Metal Gear Solid, Metroid and Blackthorn
You are in 2088, aboard on a ship called "Density" you and your crew has crashed on an uncharted ice planet. You wake up in a dark and strange place. It look like you have been captured and imprisoned in a very deep fortress out of nowhere. You must find what happened to your crew and find a way to leave this place.

Melon Quest - ????

Super Blood Hockey - ????
CGzfEooUkAAJ0N7.png

http://superbloodhockey.com/

A combination of classic 8-bit era gameplay with realistic 2D physics.

Artificial Selection - PC
CGyms4dUYAA-7xr.png:large

http://steamcommunity.com//sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=121112342

Artificial Selection is a top-down shooter based on the idea of enemies evolving to beat you. As you play against them, they'll get better and better at defeating you, until you're forced to change your strategy. The game also features millions of weapons, procedurally-generated maps, a map editor, and a randomly-generated campaign

Unnamed Game - ????

Previously Mentioned

Beyond Eyes

Pavilion

Pixel Noir

Poncho

The Song of Seven
 
Just played this:

Guns, Gore & Cannoli - $9,99 (PC)
43cO3HL.jpg

http://store.steampowered.com/app/322210/

Imagine The Godfather playing Metal Slug on the Night of the Living Dead. Guns, Gore & Cannoli is an over-the-top, comical, and fast-paced action game with hand drawn graphics and set in the Roaring Twenties.

Surprisingly good game. The dev contacted me and asked for some impressions, but I already had this on my radar before. Its pretty short with 2-3 hours for a first playthrough (so maybe keep an eye on it during the Steam sales if that is important to you), but the VERY challenging higher difficulties and challenges through achievements (beat X level by doing Y, etc) add a lot of replayability to it. Its also just... plain fun. Throughout those 2-3 hours, the game constantly introduces new enemy types and a wide range of weapons, so you always have something new to play around with/learn and the level design/enemy hordes keep you on your toes for most of the game.

Another thing worth mentioning is the polish, which I havent found often in such a game. In contrast du many other 2D platformers, it uses a VERY well done comic style, nunanced through snarky comments, a very moody soundtrack and extremely pretty animations. I had more than one moment, where I was marvelling at small graphical details, like the multiple subtle layers of background animations, very fluid character animations, extremely satisfying killing animations or small details like an in-style animated water shadow when you are walking in water or ... splashes from bullet cases hitting the water:

ZjRq5bW.gif


This game is drenched in love for making games, I am really surprised to see it seems to be one of the devs first efforts into game developing (at least according to the devs website). Apparently the dev is also working on a horde/MP mode to alleviate the playtime concerns. Really fun game, definitely going into my highly recommended or recommende list next month.
 
Tweet by the developer of Beyond Gravity
CkM67fV.png

Yeah, those type of games are screwed. And even bigger games, a lot of times players can just feel satisfied by playing 2 hours and returning the game, still getting the "experience" from it.

Blergh. Sorry devs :(
 
Yeah, those type of games are screwed. And even bigger games, a lot of times players can just feel satisfied by playing 2 hours and returning the game, still getting the "experience" from it.

Blergh. Sorry devs :(
Hopefully Valve revises the policy like they did with paid mods
 
Hopefully Valve revises the policy like they did with paid mods

The problem is that the paid mods led to a public outcry, also due to people needing to pay something that was free.

... now you are hoping for a public outcry from the general gaming population over something that was just made free for them.

... yeah, not likely. Did you take a look into the Gaf thread? A LOT of people applauding Valve for it, which in turn leads to more people buying games on Steam because its the only Store they can return games on. This isnt going anywhere.
 
I feel like, similarly to Puppygames' graph, this displays not a decrease in activity due to refunds, but rather one thanks to the overwhelming awareness of the upcoming sale thanks to every major publication picking up the story. The fact that they introduced refunds so closely to the sale will make it difficult for us to make an actual call on how big of a problem it may be until long after the sales are over.

After all, the changes to the Steam front page were once hated by every indie dev for being worried it would harm their visibility, but many spoke up after a week saying that activity for their pages, including sales, had seen a huge increase. Too soon to jump the gun and blame it on the refund policy just yet.

On an anecdotal note, I've been watching a ton of posts all around of people requesting refunds and waiting for several days, and they still don't have their money back yet. If the entire thing has slowed down, it would further drive home the point that the graph doesn't coincide strictly with refunds enabled.

I should say that I do feel like "I don't like it" is playing very fast and loose with the money devs should be earning, but the system has checks in place to prevent people from asking for too many refunds. I had to look into GoG's system, which specifies technical reasons only as legitimate reasons to request a refund, and they insist on doing troubleshooting with you first before giving you your money back. I feel like that's too much in the way of the consumer's choice on what to do with their money, but it does protect the devs somewhat.
 
Just played this:

Guns, Gore & Cannoli - $9,99 (PC)

ZjRq5bW.gif

That animation :O

Yeah, those type of games are screwed. And even bigger games, a lot of times players can just feel satisfied by playing 2 hours and returning the game, still getting the "experience" from it.

Blergh. Sorry devs :(

What I found strange is why buy a short game then decide to return it after you've experienced the full of it? Couldn't it be easier to just pirate the said game, because after you return the game you still need to wait to receive your money back.

Hopefully Valve revises the policy like they did with paid mods

"Damned if they do, damned if they don't."
 
I feel like, similarly to Puppygames' graph, this displays not a decrease in activity due to refunds, but rather one thanks to the overwhelming awareness of the upcoming sale thanks to every major publication picking up the story. The fact that they introduced refunds so closely to the sale will make it difficult for us to make an actual call on how big of a problem it may be until long after the sales are over.

After all, the changes to the Steam front page were once hated by every indie dev for being worried it would harm their visibility, but many spoke up after a week saying that activity for their pages, including sales, had seen a huge increase. Too soon to jump the gun and blame it on the refund policy just yet.

On an anecdotal note, I've been watching a ton of posts all around of people requesting refunds and waiting for several days, and they still don't have their money back yet. If the entire thing has slowed down, it would further drive home the point that the graph doesn't coincide strictly with refunds enabled.

I should say that I do feel like "I don't like it" is playing very fast and loose with the money devs should be earning, but the system has checks in place to prevent people from asking for too many refunds. I had to look into GoG's system, which specifies technical reasons only as legitimate reasons to request a refund, and they insist on doing troubleshooting with you first before giving you your money back. I feel like that's too much in the way of the consumer's choice on what to do with their money, but it does protect the devs somewhat.

True, the jury is technically still out on this one (the difference in sales on the screenshot might also be due to the game being pushed from store page 3 to 4 or whatever), but tbh, I cant really see this ending up to be 100% positive for all parties involved. Its just too much of a "blinders on" approach for a million different game types, where the system obviously affects certain games more than others.
 
What I found strange is why buy a short game then decide to return it after you've experienced the full of it? Couldn't it be easier to just pirate the said game, because after you return the game you still need to wait to receive your money back.

Because people can officially even claim the high ground and argue "its just like a demo!", instead of piracy talks being openly condemned in well moderated places. Gaf has no piracy talk, but GAF does now have a "just play it for 2 hours and do a refund, then you saw most of what you need to experience"-talk. Same effect for devs, but people feel good about it.
 
True, the jury is technically still out on this one (the difference in sales on the screenshot might also be due to the game being pushed from store page 3 to 4 or whatever), but tbh, I cant really see this ending up to be 100% positive for all parties involved. Its just too much of a "blinders on" approach for a million different game types, where the system obviously affects certain games more than others.

Agreed, there are going to be some people who will get negatively affected by this move no matter what happens. My current hope is that policies are re-evaluated and further protections are put in place to stop this from hurting developers who could become targeted or those who sit outside the usual bounds of genres, harming the desire to produce experimental content.

I've been thinking about this a lot since it came out. I've got a game in development with some team members. It stresses me out to no end to think that, should we get through greenlight, our potentially greatest source of income could also end up harming us. What if we get a lot of recalled sales for some reason, and it rips money away that we just don't have? It's a super scary thought to consider, and every smaller indie developer is staring down this gun together.

As a consumer, I'm glad to have options available to me to get my money back. But as a producer, I do worry about what it could do to hurt finances, even if there's no real evidence of it happening just yet.
 
The only way I could think of would be allowing developers to decide on the refund time or even whether its refundable at all. However, that could also lead to games without refunds being ignored in favor of games that players can get refunded, so the sales would still be heavily skewed towards the other games that can afford having the refund policy.

There are a million of those smaller Indies that offer great experiences for 2 hours (that wario ware fish minigame is a good example (forgot the name)), but I really have no solution for this either. The only thing that I could imagine happening is more Indie devs stretching out content. Say an emotional 3 hour game, having an additional hour in the beginning just with slower paces introduction, basically introducing a game "demo" structure at the beginning of a game.

Its annoying how Valve has the power to completely dictate developments in the digital PC gaming market and nobody can do anything about it, unless it hits a nerve that costs Valve 1 million per day due to the public outcry.
 
The only way I could think of would be allowing developers to decide on the refund time or even whether its refundable at all. However, that could also lead to games without refunds being ignored in favor of games that players can get refunded, so the sales would still be heavily skewed towards the other games that can afford having the refund policy.

There are a million of those smaller Indies that offer great experiences for 2 hours (that wario ware fish minigame is a good example (forgot the name)), but I really have no solution for this either. The only thing that I could imagine happening is more Indie devs stretching out content. Say an emotional 3 hour game, having an additional hour in the beginning just with slower paces introduction, basically introducing a game "demo" structure at the beginning of a game.

Its annoying how Valve has the power to completely dictate developments in the digital PC gaming market and nobody can do anything about it, unless it hits a nerve that costs Valve 1 million per day due to the public outcry.

Perhaps along those lines, Valve could use other metrics to try and determine the legitimacy of a refund request. Number of achievements completed, maybe double checking the average playtime for a game to the playtime of the one requesting the refund, stuff like that. Though, the latter would probably require a week-long grace period for sales and playthroughs to take hold so they could have solid data to work with. It would help prevent developers from needing to add filler content to their games when they have a concentrated experience in mind, though there would still be fringe cases here and there like a game not having achievements or other easily notable metrics.
 
Because people can officially even claim the high ground and argue "its just like a demo!", instead of piracy talks being openly condemned in well moderated places. Gaf has no piracy talk, but GAF does now have a "just play it for 2 hours and do a refund, then you saw most of what you need to experience"-talk. Same effect for devs, but people feel good about it.

Interesting, I didn't take thought in consideration.

The indie cade E3 lineup was just announced. If you're on the show floor be sure to check it out.

http://www.indiecade.com/e3_2015/games/

Tetheron, Swordy and Chargeshot caught my attention. I love me some local multiplayer.

Death's Gambit is also looking amazing.

http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53a0c26ee4b080549e5e92d9/t/53a3d248e4b0c03e54694128/1403245158525/test25.gif?format=750w[img][/QUOTE]

Nice lineup

[quote="More_Badass, post: 166705855"]See, IndieGAF was talking about Tribal & Error, Velocibox, and Chambara before it was cool[/QUOTE]

King of the hipsters :P

[quote="Toma, post: 166706405"]The only way I thought of would be allowed developers to decide on the refund time or even whether its refundable at all. However, that could also lead to games without refunds being ignored in favor of games that players can get refunded, so the sales would still be heavily skewed towards the other games that can afford having the refund policy.

There are a million of those smaller Indies that offer great experiences for 2 hours (that wario ware fish minigame is a good example (forgot the name)), but I really have no solution for this either. The only thing that I could imagine happening is more Indie devs stretching out content. Say an emotional 3 hour game, having an additional hour in the beginning just with slower paces introduction, basically introducing a game "demo" structure at the beginning of a game.

Its annoying how Valve has the power to completely dictate developments in the digital PC gaming market and nobody can do anything about it, unless it hits a nerve that costs Valve 1 million per day due to the public outcry.[/QUOTE]

I think it definitely should take in consideration the length of the game, or the achievements you get during a normal gameplay session though as already said earlier it still too soon to judge the real impact it'll have because I believe the developers/publishers are paid monthly.
 
Perhaps along those lines, Valve could use other metrics to try and determine the legitimacy of a refund request. Number of achievements completed, maybe double checking the average playtime for a game to the playtime of the one requesting the refund, stuff like that. Though, the latter would probably require a week-long grace period for sales and playthroughs to take hold so they could have solid data to work with. It would help prevent developers from needing to add filler content to their games when they have a concentrated experience in mind, though there would still be fringe cases here and there like a game not having achievements or other easily notable metrics.

From experience, you are asking for a LOT of support work and unless Valve plans to completely flop their spending and quality of support on its head, I cant see that happening. Even a basic support structure would require Valve to make much more of an effort than they do now.

I think it definitely should take in consideration the length of the game, or the achievements you get during a normal gameplay session though as already said earlier it still too soon to judge the real impact it'll have because I believe the developers/publishers are paid monthly.

Even if sales data shows up, its going to be hard to compare because we approach the summer sale and right after the summer sale you dont have back to back "normal business" months that devs could compare. Its awfully convenient for Valve that there wont be any direct comparisons. Not saying its why they did it now, which is probably more because the summer sale is coming up, which means they can advertise this feature during their biggest time of the year (Biggest insult would be having a "Do a refund"-achievement, though they wouldnt be that stupid.)

As I said, they want to push this hard, its going to be their biggest distinctive quality compared to other DD services, even more so than the impact of the sales. Mark my words, if this remains unchanged, in a few months we'll have plenty of comments on GAF about people not wanting to buy games on other stores because they dont have the refund policy. The generous refund policy works a LOT in favor of Valve, I dont see any reason for them to change it as long as you have 95% of Steam users cheering over it.
 
As I said, they want to push this hard, its going to be their biggest distinctive quality compared to other DD services, even more so than the impact of the sales. Mark my words, if this remains unchanged, in a few months we'll have plenty of comments on GAF about people not wanting to buy games on other stores because they dont have the refund policy.
So nothing changes, honestly. Aside from Humble, GOG, and, at a much smaller extent, itch.io, most people don't go to other stores. And if they do go to GMG or some other store, it's usually because of a discount or bundle.

GOG is the place for older games and DRM-free games
Humble for pre-ordering, buying other games before they hit Steam, and DRM-free games
itch.io is the main site for freeware games and free alpha/betas

And then Steam for everything else.
 
Dirty Hands - Free (Browser)
dirty-hands-game.gif

http://smorriscreations.itch.io/dirty-hands

You are Milgram, a C.I.A agent that has recently been transferred to work with Senior Agent Harvey McCord on a mission to find the perpetrator behind a dirty bomb that has been planted in your city. Some suspects have been found, and it is your job to find out where the bomb is at all costs.

Unbox - Free alpha (PC)
MErbfF.png

http://prospectgames.itch.io/unbox

Unbox is a vibrant local multiplayer party game, which captures the spirit of old -school "pick up and play" titles such as Mario Kart, Goldeneye and Pokemon Stadium.
 
So nothing changes, honestly. Aside from Humble, GOG, and, at a much smaller extent, itch.io, most people don't go to other stores. And if they do go to GMG or some other store, it's usually because of a discount or bundle.

GOG is the place for older games and DRM-free games
Humble for pre-ordering, buying other games before they hit Steam, and DRM-free games
itch.io is the main site for freeware games and free alpha/betas

And then Steam for everything else.

Its not making the situation better either though.
 
Tweet by the developer of Beyond Gravity
CkM67fV.png

Summer is coming.

No seriously, here's what I think happened: When you craft cards you get coupons, and for the last month or so, Beyond Gravity 50% off coupons were dropping. Now that the Summer Sale cards are dropping, coupons aren't. So people aren't getting pushed to the store page to pick up the game at a discount.
 
Summer is coming.

No seriously, here's what I think happened: When you craft cards you get coupons, and for the last month or so, Beyond Gravity 50% off coupons were dropping. Now that the Summer Sale cards are dropping, coupons aren't. So people aren't getting pushed to the store page to pick up the game at a discount.

Makes sense as well, gonna be real interesting to read up on some data on this in a few weeks/months.
 
Rather than a set 2 hours for everything, what about having the refund grace period be a percentage of the game's length? Like 10% into the game or something like that. So a game's refund period would be variable based on the length of the game. Shorter for a smaller game, longer for a more lengthy game.
 
As I said, they want to push this hard, its going to be their biggest distinctive quality compared to other DD services, even more so than the impact of the sales. Mark my words, if this remains unchanged, in a few months we'll have plenty of comments on GAF about people not wanting to buy games on other stores because they dont have the refund policy. The generous refund policy works a LOT in favor of Valve, I dont see any reason for them to change it as long as you have 95% of Steam users cheering over it.

I believe they took this route of allowing refunds because of the pushing it is having on the EU about digital content, but I may be totally wrong here since I haven't followed this discussion closely.

Summer is coming.

No seriously, here's what I think happened: When you craft cards you get coupons, and for the last month or so, Beyond Gravity 50% off coupons were dropping. Now that the Summer Sale cards are dropping, coupons aren't. So people aren't getting pushed to the store page to pick up the game at a discount.

I went to look on the game and it was recently discounted at 50% off during the 05/25 and 06/01 period so it also can be used to explain the decreased number of sales.

Rather than a set 2 hours for everything, what about having the refund grace period be a percentage of the game's length? Like 10% into the game or something like that. So a game's refund period would be variable based on the length of the game. Shorter for a smaller game, longer for a more lengthy game.

This seems to be the best solution, and I remember reading about Valve being in touch with developers/publishers about the new refund policy.
 
The only way I could think of would be allowing developers to decide on the refund time or even whether its refundable at all. However, that could also lead to games without refunds being ignored in favor of games that players can get refunded, so the sales would still be heavily skewed towards the other games that can afford having the refund policy.

There are a million of those smaller Indies that offer great experiences for 2 hours (that wario ware fish minigame is a good example (forgot the name)), but I really have no solution for this either. The only thing that I could imagine happening is more Indie devs stretching out content. Say an emotional 3 hour game, having an additional hour in the beginning just with slower paces introduction, basically introducing a game "demo" structure at the beginning of a game.

Its annoying how Valve has the power to completely dictate developments in the digital PC gaming market and nobody can do anything about it, unless it hits a nerve that costs Valve 1 million per day due to the public outcry.
Maybe I'm blinded by idealism and sentimentality, but I don't think that the first thought after having a great 2 hour experience is "Ok, how do I get my money back?" If anything, people can feel more confident with taking a chance on something.
 
Dug through the tweet chain and found a developer telling Qwiboo how to find their more detailed breakdown of sales vs refund statistics. They've posted the results:

NRbZlZ0.png


So, this gives us a bit more insight into what's going on with the graph. Though, I wonder how much of this is simply people abusing the system while they still can to get money back for the Summer Sale. I've seen quite a few people hunt for some expensive old games they bought and didn't like or had troubles with, so maybe others are just taking a swing for refunds at a bunch of smaller things to see how it works out for them.

Just one statistic, but it's important to keep in mind as we move forward and get further data from developers.
 
Dug through the tweet chain and found a developer telling Qwiboo how to find their more detailed breakdown of sales vs refund statistics. They've posted the results:

NRbZlZ0.png


So, this gives us a bit more insight into what's going on with the graph. Though, I wonder how much of this is simply people abusing the system while they still can to get money back for the Summer Sale. I've seen quite a few people hunt for some expensive old games they bought and didn't like or had troubles with, so maybe others are just taking a swing for refunds at a bunch of smaller things to see how it works out for them.

Just one statistic, but it's important to keep in mind as we move forward and get further data from developers.

Ah thanks, this helps flashing the situation
 
Dug through the tweet chain and found a developer telling Qwiboo how to find their more detailed breakdown of sales vs refund statistics. They've posted the results:

NRbZlZ0.png


So, this gives us a bit more insight into what's going on with the graph. Though, I wonder how much of this is simply people abusing the system while they still can to get money back for the Summer Sale. I've seen quite a few people hunt for some expensive old games they bought and didn't like or had troubles with, so maybe others are just taking a swing for refunds at a bunch of smaller things to see how it works out for them.

Just one statistic, but it's important to keep in mind as we move forward and get further data from developers.

It would also be interesting to see how different the average purchase number was before/after the refund introduction, as one big positive argument is that people were more likely to buy games if they could "try" them.

So if the normal amount of purchases would have been 5, but now they skyrocketed to 18 (minus 13 refunds), the effect wouldnt be all that negative.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I found the solution!
Lets have Steams vanity systems work for us here and introduce a shiny achievement badge, which you can only have if you have never refunded a game! :D

Half joking of course, but sadly enough I am sure this would balance things out a bit as well. Not sure if I should laugh or cry at that idea.
 
Just played this:

Guns, Gore & Cannoli - $9,99 (PC)
This reminds me a lot of Shank (though it seems like it could be more fun to play). Wishlisting it for now but I'm certainly interested in checking it out (that animation is really fantastic, though I imagine a lot of detail will be missed when actually playing it).
 
Idea: maybe tie a "finish the game" achievement to refunds. If you finish the game, you don't get a refund if under 2 hrs?

That could be gamed so many ways though- so I don't see that happening, plus it would require actual work on Valve's end.

Also, that money goes into a Steam Wallet- so Valve gets it sooner or later, and some dev will get their cut unless the person never buys something on Steam again.

I just wish I could get a refund on MKX, but too many hours in for it to be reasonable. Complete shovelware and never buying a NRS game again.
 
Rather than a set 2 hours for everything, what about having the refund grace period be a percentage of the game's length? Like 10% into the game or something like that. So a game's refund period would be variable based on the length of the game. Shorter for a smaller game, longer for a more lengthy game.

We do not need a complex system like this. There might already be a flaw with offline mode.

Maybe I'm blinded by idealism and sentimentality, but I don't think that the first thought after having a great 2 hour experience is "Ok, how do I get my money back?" If anything, people can feel more confident with taking a chance on something.

Exactly. I think it is a minority who would try to game the refund system, and they could even just pirate the games then. The refund system is for honest players, and it might weaken piracy even further, just as Steam did with its light-weight DRM and easy library management, infinite download numbers, family sharing, etc.
 
Idea: maybe tie a "finish the game" achievement to refunds. If you finish the game, you don't get a refund if under 2 hrs?

That could be gamed so many ways though- so I don't see that happening, plus it would require actual work on Valve's end.

Also, that money goes into a Steam Wallet- so Valve gets it sooner or later, and some dev will get their cut unless the person never buys something on Steam again.

I just wish I could get a refund on MKX, but too many hours in for it to be reasonable. Complete shovelware and never buying a NRS game again.

You can still try if you feel that money was wasted.
 
Exactly. I think it is a minority who would try to game the refund system, and they could even just pirate the games then. The refund system is for honest players, and it might weaken piracy even further, just as Steam did with its light-weight DRM and easy library management, infinite download numbers, family sharing, etc.

Yeah I think you're right. I see potential problems with the refund system, obviously, but I can't imagine everyone is now going to be buying games for the sake of it just to try them out, not liking them and instantly calling for a refund.

Or maybe I'm being naive - there certainly will be people who do that but I would hope it's not that many.
 
I wpuldnt call it "naive", but we do have that one dev comment about 72% refunds. That doesnt give me much hope tbh.
 
It's going to take a bit of time for the refunds system to bed in.

I do like the idea of 10% limit.

I wonder how difficult it would be to implement a system that would give dev's the option to opt out of the 2hr refund system where they implement their own limitations into the game so that if passed a flag is set with steam that you can no longer request a refund.

This could be anything from giving access to x amount of levels, a time limit based on game length, removing access to certain features and almost anything already already mentioned.

The specific refund system category could highlighted during purchase and the consumer has to agree to this as part of the purchase terms and conditions of purchase.
 
Seems like Jim Sterling is aiming his sights on the refund policy changes for the Jimquisition tomorrow. He's posted some of his thoughts via Ask.fm to give us an idea of what direction he's taking:

There is absolutely NO evidence of abuse there. We frankly don't know what those stats really say about the customers. Maybe these games are good at attracting impulse buyers who now have a way to recant their impulses. Maybe these were customers who felt bolder about trying games out now that they know they can get their money back if they don't like the game.

What is clear, is that although the game does have a very positive review score on Steam, a lot of the most helpful reviews are fairly negative and list a number of notable cons, pointing out that Qwiboo's game is a rather shallow mobile port. The game's forum is also full of an inordinate amount of users looking to trade 50% off coupons which goes back months.

Seems to me that Steam refunds are ripe to become the new piracy or used games, where any instance of them will be counted as a lost sale while any failures will be blamed entirely on the policy.

What I see here is a dev comparing the rate of refunds now to the rate of refunds back when refunds were REALLY HARD TO GET, on a game that is nine bloody months old from a studio that really isn't close to well known. Hardly evidence of "exploitation" or proof that gamers are "greedy."


That last bit is something I was thinking about earlier this morning. The previous method of getting refunds on Steam was extremely frustrating, having to wait for a support ticket for 4-8+ days just to have your request acknowledged. And then with the little line every support ticket would throw in at the end that your refund was a "one time courtesy", even if it was your tenth time, probably dissuaded many from seeking refunds. Now that the system is far more open, it makes sense that refund counts would go up by the sheer virtue of ease of use.
 
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