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[alstein]

Another dev reporting refund increases

Cliffski's not a shovelware guy at all- he does good quality work, though his games are super-niche, which is prob why folks are asking for refunds- they are kinda dry and boring to many people.

I guess the core question here is whether you feel not liking a game is sufficient reason for a refund- because ultimately that's why people get refunds- they feel they didn't get their money's worth (or they're scamming)

We've gone from a situation where nearly all of the risk (on the sale of a game, not the production) was on the consumer, to nearly all of the risk is on the creator.
I do smell a market power inequality that will eventually result in fewer games being made (but this is in a market that is oversupplied)

 

[More_Badass]

The Soul Keeper - ????

https://www.facebook.com/TheSoulKeeperGame

A third person action RPG inspired by Norse Mythology

 

[Moobabe]

Cliffski's not a shovelware guy at all- he does good quality work, though his games are super-niche, which is prob why folks are asking for refunds- they are kinda dry and boring to many people.

I guess the core question here is whether you feel not liking a game is sufficient reason for a refund- because ultimately that's why people get refunds- they feel they didn't get their money's worth (or they're scamming)

It's rare in day to day life that you get a refund for simply "not liking something." You can question something's quality, but you wouldn't buy a packet of crisps of a flavour you have never tried before, not like it and then return it simply because you didn't it.

Buying things isn't a trial - people walk into Game buy a brand new £40 and end up not liking it. That's their problem - games coverage is more pervasive now than ever. Everyone has smart phones, anyone can use Google. If you buy a game and don't like it then it's on you.

 

[alstein]

It's rare in day to day life that you get a refund for simply "not liking something." You can question something's quality, but you wouldn't buy a packet of crisps of a flavour you have never tried before, not like it and then return it simply because you didn't it.

Buying things isn't a trial - people walk into Game buy a brand new £40 and end up not liking it. That's their problem - games coverage is more pervasive now than ever. Everyone has smart phones, anyone can use Google. If you buy a game and don't like it then it's on you.

So it's ok for devs to release shovelware? There is implied merchantability on purchase of goods.

I agree, some level of bugginess is tolerable, and some level of mediocrity is tolerable, but at what point does it become so bad that a refund is deserved?

Also, Steam's monopoly power means that creators only option if they hate this is to not sell on Steam. That's also pretty damn risky. (but I can see it happening if consumers get too obnoxious on refunds)

 

[Moobabe]

So it's ok for devs to release shovelware? There is implied merchantability on purchase of goods.

I agree, some level of bugginess is tolerable, and some level of mediocrity is tolerable, but at what point does it become so bad that a refund is deserved?

Also, Steam's monopoly power means that creators only option if they hate this is to not sell on Steam. That's also pretty damn risky. (but I can see it happening if consumers get too obnoxious on refunds)

Shovelware is shovelware - but we're not talking about that here are we?

 

[More_Badass]

It's rare in day to day life that you get a refund for simply "not liking something." You can question something's quality, but you wouldn't buy a packet of crisps of a flavour you have never tried before, not like it and then return it simply because you didn't it.

Buying things isn't a trial - people walk into Game buy a brand new £40 and end up not liking it. That's their problem - games coverage is more pervasive now than ever. Everyone has smart phones, anyone can use Google. If you buy a game and don't like it then it's on you.

To be fair, it can still be hard to find coverage or previews of some indies.

 

[alstein]

Shovelware is shovelware - but we're not talking about that here are we?

One man's shovelware is another man's treasure.

There are folks who call GalCiv3 shovelware, and there are folks who call Mortal Kombat X awesome (referring to PC version here).

I consider the above statements completely batshit. (If you're read about the promises with MKX, and the results, that's a game where refunds are deserved)

 

[Moobabe]

One man's shovelware is another man's treasure.

There are folks who call GalCiv3 shovelware, and there are folks who call Mortal Kombat X awesome (referring to PC version here).

I consider the above statements completely batshit. (If you're read about the promises with MKX, and the results, that's a game where refunds are deserved)

Well then we're talking about hyperbole. Neither of those games are shovelware - you might not like them, but "shovelware" is just trash that's been pushed out the door.

To be fair, it can still be hard to find coverage or previews of some indies.

True - but it's easier than it ever has been.

 

[Chaos17]

Another dev reporting refund increases

But he is thinking about tinstalling DRM because it seems that people can still play his games even after they've been refunded (or he think so). Someone else did explained it too.

Tom Grochowiak ‏@TomGrochowiak 1 hil y a 1 heure
@KachoArinoDesu @adrianchm @cliffski Not really. You can't make someone erase their copy from the HDD. DRM makes sure it won't run at least.

 

[Nabs]

I wish some of these devs would slow down a bit and let the initial wave of refunds pass. Lets talk about it in a month or 3 and see what's happening then.

DRM is a scary word but enabling Steamworks CEG isn't the end of the world.

 

[Moobabe]

I wish some of these devs would slow down a bit and let the initial wave of refunds pass. Lets talk about it in a month or 3 and see what's happening then.

DRM is a scary word but enabling Steamworks CEG isn't the end of the world.

Yeah we're bound to see some increase - but let's hope it's just a teething period.

 

[Windtrick]

Just finished Code7 and Tundra, both were really awesome experiences and I hope we can get more episodes of Code7 greenlit. I won't spoil anything, but both games are about ten minute sessions and while fairly short, were fun and pretty atmospheric. Highly recommend a play of each even if you don't like text-based adventures as these are quite good with Code7 especially showing a "new" text-based adventure.

Wondering if anyone has any other awesome text-based adventures to share? I've got a strange hankering for some new ones to play.

 

[More_Badass]

Just finished Code7 and Tundra, both were really awesome experiences and I hope we can get more episodes of Code7 greenlit. I won't spoil anything, but both games are about ten minute sessions and while fairly short, were fun and pretty atmospheric. Highly recommend a play of each even if you don't like text-based adventures as these are quite good with Code7 especially showing a "new" text-based adventure.

Wondering if anyone has any other awesome text-based adventures to share? I've got a strange hankering for some new ones to play.

If you have a mobile device, the Sorcery series, 80 Days, and Device 6 are excellent

Also this Twine game my father's long long legs is really well done, very unsettling and creepy

 

[Windtrick]

If you have a mobile device, the Sorcery series, 80 Days, and Device 6 are excellent

Also this Twine game my father's long long legs is really well done, very unsettling and creepy

Thank you, that was a really well done twine indeed, really liked the effects as I don't have much experience with twines since I basically just discovered them with Tundra. I'll look into the other mobile games you've listed as well, I've seen Sorcery in this thread and wanted to try it out soon. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[More_Badass]

Did a quick preview of Doko Roko, if anyone's interested. Game sounds really cool

 

[arcanadei]

When I was younger there was a music store that let you return anything with a couple of days, no questions asked. Because of that, I bought a lot of stuff I normally wouldn't have just to try it out. Yes, a lot got returned, but sometimes I would find something great and buy more from that artist. I really hope that kind of mentality comes from the new Steam policies. It could be a boon for indie devs if people are more willing to take a shot on something they've never heard of because of it. Time will tell.

 

[More_Badass]

Trailer

Vigil - PC

http://recluseindustries.com/games.html

A first person Sci-fi thriller with an emphasis on atmosphere, exploration, and narrative
VIGIL is our first 'big' game, with a proposed play through time of around three and a half hours and a story influenced by movies such as 2001: A Space Odyssey, Bladerunner and Moon.

Edit: damn, it was put on hold

 

[Dascu]

So yeah, earlier in one of these threads I was talking about how my next project would be a Ghost in the Shell/Die Hard/Lovecraft type of thing.

Sorry! But I'm jumping straight into the Shadow of the Colossus clone after all.

 

[More_Badass]

So yeah, earlier in one of these threads I was talking about how my next project would be a Ghost in the Shell/Die Hard/Lovecraft type of thing.

Sorry! But I'm jumping straight into the Shadow of the Colossus clone after all.

I'm not complaining

 

[Moobabe]

I'm not complaining

Me either!

 

[Toma]

So yeah, earlier in one of these threads I was talking about how my next project would be a Ghost in the Shell/Die Hard/Lovecraft type of thing.

Sorry! But I'm jumping straight into the Shadow of the Colossus clone after all.

You have my axe, and my sword and my stamina meter.

 

[Toma]

Big Pharma - 19,99$ during Beta (PC)

http://www.bigpharmagame.com/

Part business sim, part logistics puzzle. It’s one thing to work away in the lab perfecting new formulas, but converting the ‘sciency stuff’ into cold hard cash means bringing an engineering and business mind to the problem. Factory space is expensive, and those fancy new agglomerators and centrifuges don’t always slot nicely together.

Theme Hospital X SpaceChem? Yeah, probably buying this eventually. Not sure how good it is though.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

Peter Moorhead, maker of Stranded and the upcoming Murdered, has written a blog post detailing his worries on the refund system.

A few segments below. I thought it worth reading especially for the final quote.

Judging a game primarily on length is akin to judging a book based on the publisher’s choice of font. Length is simply not a primary factor in a game’s quality, and making this incorrect assumption puts deeply unfair demands on devs who choose not to pad out their story in order to try and compete on these grounds. Personally I value minimalism - I don’t want to take up any more time than I have to in order to tell a story, and I value the control granted to me over tone and pacing when I know my audience will play my game in one sitting - I shouldn’t be punished for what is a totally reasonable creative decision.

When you go to see a film, you can’t expect a refund because you didn’t enjoy it, and the same goes for an album, a book, or a game. Not liking something on personal terms is not sufficient justification for a refund - by those terms the studio who made Transformers 3 should now be bankrupt, and everyone who worked there should now be unemployed and possibly homeless.

There are people genuinely trying to petition to remove my last game “Stranded” from Steam for being less than an hour long, and for containing no puzzles, despite literally every published review of the game ever, and the game’s own goddam store description, duly noting both of these facts.

 

[PandaPedinte]

Cosmochoria - It looks like it was yesterday I played the alpha version of Cosmochoria. The complete reslease expand the solid foundation of the game adding more weapons, items, NPC's and differents styles of planets.

Hot Date - It wass funnier than what I was expecting. You are in a speed dating with a pink pug and you just choose the questions that may that seem interesting and takes you to discover more about that incredible creature (how many pink pugs have you ever met?) before the times run out.

Kung Fury:Street Rage - It plays like One Finger Death Punch, but so far it doesn't looks like to have the same depth as the OFDP. There's only one mode to play and the filter makes things a bit confusing for me to see what's going on the screen.

Neon Struct - I played only the demo and I loved every minute of it, the first levels were able to capture the same feel I had when I played the original Deus EX. Lacking weapons helps building the tension because there isn't a way to confront enemies directly, still talking about the enemies listening to theirs footsteps and observing the behavior are two things you'll do with frequency.

The music is incredible good and sets the right mood when is played.

 

[Toma]

OP impressions:

Butcher

2D action platformer from the devs of King Arthurs Gold and Soldat. As expected from their roots, the platforming is solid and the combat satisfying. It is also quite challenging if you want it to be with some cool little Pixel Art animations. I decided against putting it into my highly recommended games section for now (only "recommended" as the levels sometimes end up feeling a bit too repetetive. Still, definitely worth playing.

Chroma Squad
Very fun game and especially great setting/art style. The presentation of the game is worth a purchase alone, but then throws a very satisfying light tactical combat system on top and dips it into a bucket of rainbow colored fun weirdness. The game isnt particularly challenging and I find 15$ is a tad too expensive, but do check this out if you see it on sale. Definitely one of the most original settings and story/gameplay combinations you will have played recently

Cosmochoria
Almost all here played it already anyway, so I dont need to go too much into details. Its a lovely and incredibly charming space platformer with a motivating progress/update system. Very charming and highly recommended.

CrossCode
After playing the demo, I just remembered that we featured this way back in early alpha already, where it showed a ton of promise. By now they added an engaging story and a setting that I really want to dive into (basically an anime style battle island) with enough story and mysteries to keep the experience intriguing. They also improved on some other aspects of the gameplay and this turned out to be a damn fine game with plenty of upgrades, features and challenging enemies/puzzles. The only downside is the relatively simply basic combat moves which also require a lot of clicking, which is alleviated by having combat that that is more focussed on movement and hitting weak spots.

Code 7
Short and intriguing text based adventure. A bit predictable as far as the plot goes, but very enjoyable bite sized experience. the actual "game" aspect with the puzzles still leave a lot to be desired, but I enjoy it a lot for what it is.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Highly recommended
Cosmochoria
Chroma Squad
Cross Code

Recommended
Code 7
Butcher

Decent

Not recommended

Good start of the month.

 

[More_Badass]

Subnautica looks pretty incredible, has anyone played it?

Subnautica - $19.99 (PC)

http://unknownworlds.com/subnautica/

Descend into the depths of an alien underwater world filled with wonder and peril. Craft equipment, pilot submarines, terraform voxel terrain, and out-smart wildlife to explore lush coral reefs, volcanoes, cave systems, and more - All while trying to survive.

 

[Wozman23]

I'd been eying Ink since the last thread. It's now name your own price. Just got through playing it and enjoyed it immensely! I'd definitely be down for a more fleshed out project. I really can't get enough of the world revealing mechanics in it, The Unfinished Swan, and the upcoming Beyond Eyes. They really combine simplicity and art brilliantly.

Ink - $3.99 (PC)

http://zackbellgames.itch.io/ink

INK is a fast-paced, abstract platformer about discovering the world around you, using paint.

 

[More_Badass]

I'd been eying Ink since the last thread. It's now name your own price. Just got through playing it and enjoyed it immensely! I'd definitely be down for a more fleshed out project. I really can't get enough of the world revealing mechanics in it, The Unfinished Swan, and the upcoming Beyond Eyes. They really combine simplicity and art brilliantly.

Check out Haemo if you haven't already
http://managore.itch.io/haemo
Seems like it would be up your alley

 

[titch]

Subnautica looks pretty incredible, has anyone played it?

Was that not part of a recent humble? - if so wish I had picked it up now

 

[titch]

So when did Rain Worlds store page go up?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/312520/

 

[One Foul Note]

So when did Rain Worlds store page go up?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/312520/

It's been up there for like a month or close, gradually crawling closer and closer to the top of the 'coming soon' list. I presume it is out tonight? The position on the list suggest so although the store page still lacks an actual release date.

 

[Toma]

If anyone is curious, the Guns, Gore & Cannoli dev just answered a small question regarding the game and I posted it over in the announcement thread for it. Just in case anyone is interested:

We used Unity3d to make the game and the animation tool that Unity provides was used. it is very similar to After Effects. Some animations, like the water splashes, fire, explosions, melting and stuf were oldschool 2d frame by frame drawings. these are then put in a spritesheet. These effects make the game kind of heavy for the graphic card. but we prefered this style over particle effects.

 

[bequietdrive]

Big Pharma - 19,99$ during Beta (PC)


Theme Hospital X SpaceChem? Yeah, probably buying this eventually. Not sure how good it is though.

I'm really enjoying the beta. The tutorial needs a bit of work as it can be a bit confusing, but once you get to grips with the gameplay its really fun.

Love the fact it subtly makes you choose between making effective cures or gaining a larger profit.

 

[Toma]

I'm really enjoying the beta. The tutorial needs a bit of work as it can be a bit confusing, but once you get to grips with the gameplay its really fun.

Love the fact it subtly makes you choose between making effective cures or gaining a larger profit.

I'd love more impressions! How deep or complex is it? How do the mechaonisms compare to other Programming-Type Games like the Zachtronics games or Factorio (if you havent played Factorio yet, take this as a massive recommendation) ?

 

[More_Badass]

So when did Rain Worlds store page go up?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/312520/

It's been up there for like a month or close, gradually crawling closer and closer to the top of the 'coming soon' list. I presume it is out tonight? The position on the list suggest so although the store page still lacks an actual release date.

Must be an error on the store's part. It's definitely not releasing on Steam anytime soon. Devs have been working on the E3 build and other stuff.

 

[Moobabe]

OreLight - PC

http://store.steampowered.com/app/368790/

OreLight, a dungeon crawling, multiplayer RPG with crafting, mining, base building and stabbing. Everything in the world can be dug up, replaced or moved, so building anything from a small hut to an entire town is possible.

 

[Weltall Zero]

What I found strange is why buy a short game then decide to return it after you've experienced the full of it? Couldn't it be easier to just pirate the said game, because after you return the game you still need to wait to receive your money back.

Safety and convenience, I guess. Most people don't want to deal with shady download sites, potentially virus-carrying executables, and so on. The great success history about Steam is that it curbed piracy by making buying the game so much more convenient than pirating it, especially at Steam sale prices. Never underestimate the appeal of the path of least resistance.

As Toma pointed, having a supposed moral high ground is another incentive. Of course, that moral ground doesn't hold under any reasonable scrutiny and is in fact indistinguishable from piracy at any level, unless you legitimately hated the game or it didn't work. I doubt that "I bought this game, completed it and got refunded" will get a much different treatment than "I pirated it" on GAF, or at least I hope so.

All in all it's a feature that sounds good on paper, but personally I will probably never use it (I research games thoroughly before buying unless they are like 2 bucks and wouldn't bother returning them in that case), and in the end what it means for me is that a smaller group will end up being the sole financial supporters of games that others will play for free, and smaller indie games will have a really rough time. :/

 

[More_Badass]

MegaSphere is available to preorder and is looking for votes on Greenlight
http://www.antonkudin.me/megasphere/
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=456979419
New teaser

 

[More_Badass]

I haven't even started playing yet, and the sound design is already creeping me out

Antumbra - Free (Browser)

http://dronelocker.itch.io/antumbra

"Antumbra is a super tough and very creepy dungeon crawling adventure populated by a wide variety of SCP-style monsters that will tear you limb from limb."

Edit: and I learned that a sequel is currently on Indiegogo

Antumbra 2: Chant of Ash - ???? (PC, Mac, Linux

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/antumbra-2-chant-of-ash

Antumbra 2, as its prequel is a very surreal point-and-click horror adventure game. It has a powerful storyline, immersing audio, surreal graphics and atmosphere thick and sticky like tar.
Its an adventure game like nothing else, taking inspiration from things like Silent Hill, Darkseed, Event Horizon, Lovecraft, H.R. Giger, Zdzislaw Beksinski, Hellraiser, David Firth animations, Alice in Wonderland, Planescape: Torment and many many others.

 

[titch]

MegaSphere is available to preorder and is looking for votes on Greenlight
http://www.antonkudin.me/megasphere/
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=456979419
New teaser

Greenlight - just take my money already!!!!

Will vote when I get home!!!

 

[Phawx]

In four days so many things happen.

Now I know we've mentioned this before:

Oceanhorn: Monster of Uncharted Seas



But it's on sale on GoG - did anyone check it out? It always looked kind of cool

I did a quick look when it came out. The art style tries very hard to be a reasonable facsimile to Zelda games and mostly succeeds in that regard. The game falls pretty flat when trying to replicate some of the other key elements to Zelda games though. There is a definite WindWaker vibe to it, but as you play, it feels less like a love-letter and more like a cash-grab for people wanting a Zeldalike in some capacity.

The music, enemies lack-of-tells, sloppy combat, sloppy platforming really bring everything down. The game is okay. But when framed against what they are trying to copy, it feels faxed-in.

 

[More_Badass]

Damn the most frustrating moment in indie gaming is when you finally plan out and perfect your assembly line in Infinifactory, only to realize your shape is off by one detail when it reaches the end

Ugh...

 

[Toma]

Damn the most frustrating moment in indie gaming is when you finally plan out and perfect your assembly line in Infinifactory, only to realize your shape is off by one detail when it reaches the end

Ugh...

Followed right by the most satisfying moment in videogaming when you still figure it out and finish the level!

 

[Moobabe]

Damn the most frustrating moment in indie gaming is when you finally plan out and perfect your assembly line in Infinifactory, only to realize your shape is off by one detail when it reaches the end

Ugh...

I simply cannot get my head around those games - SpaceChem, Infinifactory and, I suspect, Big Pharma. If it was more Theme Hospital then maybe - I just don't have the capacity to plan out those complex shapes.

Fun fact: I once did a dyslexia test at University which, aside from demonstrating that I, apparently, have amazing mental arithmetic capabilities, showed that I am HOPELESS at rearranging shapes and colours into the corresponding patterns - which is why I suspect I'm rubbish at those games. Bonus picture of the test (there are multiple patterns you need to match up)

 

[More_Badass]

Followed right by the most satisfying moment in videogaming when you still figure it out and finish the level!

Hopefully. It's the small excavator level, and I hadn't realized the top section needed to be four pieces than 3. So the entire assembly line is designed for 3-piece sections. Been working on that level for two days, finally got it all timed right and everything after being stumped...

 

[One Foul Note]

My problem in Infinifactory is my mind gravitates towards making the smallest, most compact factory floor possible. Creating this nightmare knot of pushers and conveyor belts and having to sort through a whole host of issues due to this. Only to finally zoom out and see that I had like half a mile in all directions to space out my design and create a much simpler factory floor.

I can really relate to the gif Toma made in Infinifactory where he has an entire Football field to assemble this 3D object and he finishes it like three blocks in and spends the rest of the time carting to to the other side.

 

[Wok]

I simply cannot get my head around those games - SpaceChem, Infinifactory and, I suspect, Big Pharma. If it was more Theme Hospital then maybe - I just don't have the capacity to plan out those complex shapes.

Fun fact: I once did a dyslexia test at University which, aside from demonstrating that I, apparently, have amazing mental arithmetic capabilities, showed that I am HOPELESS at rearranging shapes and colours into the corresponding patterns - which is why I suspect I'm rubbish at those games. Bonus picture of the test (there are multiple patterns you need to match up)

How is it difficult if all you have to do is just to look at the four corners of the square to get the correct matching?

 

[Moobabe]

How is it difficult if all you have to do is just to look at the four corners of the square to get the correct matching?

It doesn't work quite like that - the blocks you're given are only two small squares across and coloured on every side, and not every shape is a square with a pattern like that. It's more difficult than it looks on paper, plus it's testing for some aspect of dyslexia - which apparently I have!

 

[More_Badass]

Was able to try the press demo of Induction and it's really cool. At first it feels similar to games like Project Temporality and Tessallation, but then it throws paradoxes and alternate time lines into the mix

Check it out:

While the actions of the purple cube remain in effect, that timeline is erased, leaving behind an alternate timeline consisting of the green and yellow cubes.

And it only gets trickier from there

 

[More_Badass]

If you love programming-based puzzlers, you must be in seventh heaven this year, between Infinifactory, TIS-100, and now Tomorrow Corporation's next game

Human Resource Machine - Summer 2015 (PC, Mac)

http://tomorrowcorporation.com/humanresourcemachine

Human Resource Machine is a puzzle game. In each level, your boss gives you a job. Automate it by programming your little office worker! If you succeed, you'll be promoted up to the next level for another year of work in the vast office building. Congratulations!
Don't worry if you've never programmed before - programming is just puzzle solving. If you strip away all the 1's and 0's and scary squiggly brackets, programming is actually simple, logical, beautiful, and something that anyone can understand and have fun with!