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[Masked Man]

Masahiro Sakurai's Thoughts on Video Games, Vol. 480: The Act of Balancing
Sakurai responds to unfounded cries of favoritism by discussing the method by which he and his team has adjusted and continues to tweak the character balance in Super Smash Bros. for 3DS and Wii U.
Translated by PushDustIn, Soma, and yours truly. Enjoy!

 

[Nanashrew]

I was always just joking, Sakurai D:

 

[Gonzo The Great]

"unfounded cries of favoritism"

I beg to differ.

 

[SalvaPot]

When Kirby was awful on Melee it become hard for me to say he has favorites when balancing.

Edit: I think this is the highlight:

At the end of the day, I’m aiming for intermediately-skilled players to be able to properly enjoy the game. Fundamentally, my goal with Smash has been to create an “enjoyable party game”. If you want to enjoy thrilling tactical gameplay, you might be better suited for other 2D fighting games.

Recently, there was a tournament featuring the top Japanese and American players. In 1v1s, the natural tendency is to use low risk moves to gradually deal damage to the opponent. Smash attacks rarely came out, and the matches were prone to becoming long, drawn out affairs. When considering the variety of ways Smash can be played I think this is a waste, but the winner was certainly decided by skill.

Just as surely, people who play the game this way enjoy it from the bottom of their hearts, and make many friends playing this way. Because the game accommodates a wide variety of playstyles, it’s only natural that it captivates so many people in a variety of ways.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

When Kirby was awful on Melee it become hard for me to say he has favorites when balancing.

Nobody is claiming that Palutena and King Dedede are overpowered. I wonder if he's intentionally dodging the subject of series representation or if he's truly oblivious?

 

[Hatchtag]

In 1v1s, the natural tendency is to use low risk moves to gradually deal damage to the opponent. Smash attacks rarely came out, and the matches were prone to becoming long, drawn out affairs.

if only there was a faster game where this didn't happen as much.
if only

"unfounded cries of favoritism"

I beg to differ.

i can't wait till DJ Octavian gets in Smash 6 instead of K Rool

 

[Lunar15]

I didn't see many cries about favoritism in terms of characters who were really strong. Mainly I saw it in regards to how many characters came from games he made, mainly Dark Pit. Eh, never bothered me much.

Also, I'm not one of the people who constantly champions Melee over its sequels, but that quote at the end sounded off. Melee was pretty fast in 1v1's, so I think it's more the game than the playstyles...

EDIT: beaten.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

"unfounded cries of favoritism"

I beg to differ.

K. Rool will never get in because he's so ugly, he'd be OP solely based on distraction.

 

[Crayolan]

If Sakurai favored his own characters he wouldn't make them all so bad/average.

So clearly he really favored Meta Knight in Brawl.

 

[Spinosaurus]

"unfounded cries of favoritism"

I beg to differ.

It's time to let it go

 

[Masked Man]

"unfounded cries of favoritism"

I beg to differ.

To be fair, the criticism is lodged less at the roster choices and more at the way the characters perform in-game.

 

[Toxi]

And apparently sometimes the balancing team just throws up their arms and gives up and we get a Dr. Mario or Mii Swordsman.

I mean, I appreciate that they're trying, but as a Samus main I don't see any fruits of their labor.

 

[RM8]

SSB4 is honestly the only balanced Smash game to date, lol.

 

[mStudios]

Lets focus on Smash 4 (since this is about sm4sh) before this becomes another The game I like vs The game you like.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

To be fair, the criticism is lodged less at the roster choices and more at the way the characters perform in-game.

Are they really? Or is Sakurai just deflecting the question? The most "overpowered" character in the game is Diddy Kong, a character from a franchise that is dreadfully underrepresented in terms of content.

 

[Crayolan]

And sometimes the team just throws up their arms and gives up and we get a Dr. Mario or Mii Swordsman.

They had to be sure Dr. Mario was bad to make up for how "fun" his taunts are.

 

[Spinosaurus]

And sometimes the team just throws up their arms and gives up and we get a Dr. Mario or Mii Swordsman.

Doc is pretty underrated (and is pretty rad in customs), it's just that he gets outclassed by Luigi. Only thing he does have over Luigi is a good matchup against Ness because he actually has a short hop game. Trela's been doing really well with default swordsman so who knows.

Zelda, on the other hand. Zelda is the primary example of being god awful in 1v1 but amazing in FFA.

 

[Neiteio]

If you want to enjoy thrilling tactical gameplay, you might be better suited for other 2D fighting games.

gat damn

 

[Hatchtag]

Lets focus on Smash 4 (since this is about sm4sh) before this becomes another The game I like vs The game you like.

to be fair, I love Smash 4 and agree with most of the points he made. But his point about the games drawing on too long is a bit silly when there's already a game in the series that provides a clear solution to such a problem.

 

[SalvaPot]

Nvmnd.

 

[Cody_D165]

Recently, there was a tournament featuring the top Japanese and American players. In 1v1s, the natural tendency is to use low risk moves to gradually deal damage to the opponent. Smash attacks rarely came out, and the matches were prone to becoming long, drawn out affairs. When considering the variety of ways Smash can be played I think this is a waste, but the winner was certainly decided by skill.

Just as surely, people who play the game this way enjoy it from the bottom of their hearts, and make many friends playing this way. Because the game accommodates a wide variety of playstyles, it’s only natural that it captivates so many people in a variety of ways.

I'm... not sure how to feel about this. The game is meant to accomodate a wide variety of playstyles, yet he feels one of them, which has spawned an entire dedicated community that I love being a part of... is a "waste."

It's always one step forward two steps back with this man. I love Sakurai but I do wish he'd give the competitive scene a little more credit

After all, competitive Smashers arguably end up the most passionate Smash fans. I've poured thousands of hours into these games and don't regret a second.

 

[Nightbird]

Greninja: *cries in a corner*


I don't think anyone ever accused him of favoritism while balancing the game. Maybe he should listen more to what people are actually saying.

 

[emb]

The 'if you want a competitive game you should play 2D fighters' comment annoys me every time I see him or anyone say it.

It's like I want a cake with delicious flavor and great decoration, but I'm being told to order a steak if I want something delicious. Well sure, but that's not what I want...

if only there was a faster game where this didn't happen as much.
if only

Heh, agreed.

Although...

 

[Spinosaurus]

I don't think anyone ever accused him of favoritism while balancing the game.

You'd be surprised

 

[Hatchtag]

Greninja: *cries in a corner*


I don't think anyone ever accused him of favoritism while balancing the game. Maybe he should listen more to what people are actually saying.

Favoritism probably stems more from Brawl, where Meta Knight is leagues above the other characters and King Dedede is pretty decent as well.

 

[badcrumble]

I appreciate that Sakurai balances these games so thoughtfully that they're equally rewarding for casual players and casual players alike.

 

[Greenzxy]

"In 1v1s, the natural tendency is to use low risk moves to gradually deal damage to the opponent"..."When considering the variety of ways Smash can be played I think this is a waste"

Damn, Sakurai doesn't give a fuck about competitive players.

 

[Im_So_Pringles]

SSB4 is honestly the only balanced Smash game to date, lol.

SSB64 would like a word with you. Every character (other than Ness to an extent) is viable in that game.

 

[SalvaPot]

Honestly Smash 4 feels fairly balanced, it relies more on strategy and mind games than match-ups (although they still play a part), and is exciting that its still getting balanced, I would love to see more balance with the Lucas patch and what they are going to add to the game, since we are getting a big Nintendo Direct for Smash.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Favoritism probably stems more from Brawl, where Meta Knight is leagues above the other characters and King Dedede is pretty decent as well.

King Dedede straight up invalidated half the cast, even if he lost to top tiers. Poor DK.

But yeah he and MK get brought up all the time.

 

[RM8]

SSB64 would like a word with you. Every character (other than Ness to an extent) is viable in that game.

Isn't Samus terrible? In any case, balancing a game with 12 fighters is much easier than balancing SSB4. And we have Melee and especially Brawl being two of the most unbalanced fighters ever :[

 

[Dice//]

I'm... not sure how to feel about this. The game is meant to accomodate a wide variety of playstyles, yet he feels one of them, which has spawned an entire dedicated community that I love being a part of... is a "waste."

It's always one step forward two steps back with this man. I love Sakurai but I do wish he'd give the competitive scene a little more credit

After all, competitive Smashers arguably end up the most passionate Smash fans. I've poured thousands of hours into these games and don't regret a second.

IIRC this isn't the first time something like this was said, which is really disappointing.

Kudos to Nintendo for really hearing out fans and giving them cool stuff, but sometimes they intentionally forget or arbitrarily ignore what's really wanted/needed.

Smash NOT seen for competitive play? No voice chat in Splatoon? Shitty Amiibo support/alternatives? Massive/gimmick controllers? No linked accounts?
They're so close but so far sometimes.

 

[Neiteio]

Damn, Sakurai doesn't give a fuck about competitive players.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDf1WIwUUAEuLOZ.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
*Immediately after the photo, Sakurai takes off all his clothes and throws them in a burning wastebasket. He starts furiously scrubbing down his body with soap and water.*

SAKURAI: "EEW! BAKA GAIJIN E-SPORTS COOTIES!"

 

[Leafhopper]

gat damn

Damn, Sakurai doesn't give a fuck about competitive players.

For Glory was a fluke.

 

[Spinosaurus]

SSB64 would like a word with you. Every character (other than Ness to an extent) is viable in that game.

SSB64 had Pikachu though who beat everyone solidly

 

[Cody_D165]

*Immediately after the photo, Sakurai takes off all his clothes and throws them in a burning wastebasket. He starts furiously scrubbing down his body with soap and water.*

SAKURAI: "EEW! BAKA GAIJIN E-SPORTS COOTIES!"

bullshit

Sakurai would never burn that shirt

it's like the only one he wears

 

[Riposte]

What a waste, if only people played the game I designed poorly, it would be flawless.

 

[Rentahamster]

It may take a while, but they'll understand...eventually.

Furthermore, if I went with what is fair according to advanced players, the beginners wouldn’t be able to keep up. For example, Kirby’s Stone attack probably won’t hit a player above intermediate skill level, but if I made it more powerful, it would destroy beginners.

At the end of the day, I’m aiming for intermediately-skilled players to be able to properly enjoy the game. Fundamentally, my goal with Smash has been to create an “enjoyable party game”. If you want to enjoy thrilling tactical gameplay, you might be better suited for other 2D fighting games.

He still thinks we can't have it both ways. Balance at the highest level, please.

In 1v1s, the natural tendency is to use low risk moves to gradually deal damage to the opponent. Smash attacks rarely came out, and the matches were prone to becoming long, drawn out affairs.

It's funny how he doesn't realize the reason for this.

 

[SalvaPot]

I'm... not sure how to feel about this. The game is meant to accomodate a wide variety of playstyles, yet he feels one of them, which has spawned an entire dedicated community that I love being a part of... is a "waste."

It's always one step forward two steps back with this man. I love Sakurai but I do wish he'd give the competitive scene a little more credit

After all, competitive Smashers arguably end up the most passionate Smash fans. I've poured thousands of hours into these games and don't regret a second.

He is saying defensive playstyle is a waste, not that the game been played competitively is.

. When considering the variety of ways Smash can be played I think this is a waste, but the winner was certainly decided by skill.

 

[Toxi]

SSB4 is honestly the only balanced Smash game to date, lol.

It damn should be considering it's the only one to receive online balance patches months after release. Unfortunately, half the time they're taking the Capcom approach of nerfing the top tiers, buffing a few mid tiers, and barely touching the characters who actually need buffs.

 

[Neiteio]

bullshit

Sakurai would never burn that shirt

it's like the only one he wears

I'm convinced these shirts he wears are the actual skins of real jungle cats, albeit magical ones that only he can see, hence their silky nature

 

[danwu]

bring back little mac

 

[ffdgh]

low risk moves...like needles and sheiek's fair? /s

I'd love if everyone was as good as smash 4 mario honestly.

 

[Im_So_Pringles]

Isn't Samus terrible? In any case, balancing a game with 12 fighters is much easier than balancing SSB4. And we have Melee and especially Brawl being two of the most unbalanced fighters ever :[

Not really; Players like Jousuke and Bane have beat big swingers like SuPeRbOoMfAn and Isai with Samus on occasion if memory serves me correctly.

But yes, Samus is a step lower as well. But pretty much everybody else in the cast is viable.

SSB64 had Pikachu though who beat everyone solidly

Sure, but it's nowhere near the levels of Fox in Melee or (especially) Meta Knight in Brawl (which might be the most unbalanced character in a fighter ever lol)

 

[Spinluck]

SSB64 would like a word with you. Every character (other than Ness to an extent) is viable in that game.

Smash 4's balance is more impressive imo.

So many damn characters, and I've seen play styles from a bunch of them that make me wonder if I've seen their peak yet lol.

 

[Nickle]

Smash was a mistake, it's nothing but trash.

 

[ugly]

Can someone make a GIF of Sakurai saying "Smash bros was a mistake. It's nothing but trash"

Edit: Posting here was a mistake. It's nothing but trash.

 

[Moonlight]

He is saying defensive playstyle is a waste, not that the game been played competitively is.

It's almost like the game's mechanically predisposed to encourage defensive playstyles.

 

[Vena]

I'm... not sure how to feel about this. The game is meant to accomodate a wide variety of playstyles, yet he feels one of them, which has spawned an entire dedicated community that I love being a part of... is a "waste."

It's always one step forward two steps back with this man. I love Sakurai but I do wish he'd give the competitive scene a little more credit

After all, competitive Smashers arguably end up the most passionate Smash fans. I've poured thousands of hours into these games and don't regret a second.

I read that entirely differently as in, he's saying that the defensive, safe play was a waste but, still, skill won in the end. Not the competitive element.

You see what you want to see, I guess.

 

[tirkaroKujo]

Fundamentally, my goal with Smash has been to create an “enjoyable party game”. If you want to enjoy thrilling tactical gameplay, you might be better suited for other 2D fighting games.

Recently, there was a tournament featuring the top Japanese and American players. In 1v1s, the natural tendency is to use low risk moves to gradually deal damage to the opponent. Smash attacks rarely came out, and the matches were prone to becoming long, drawn out affairs. When considering the variety of ways Smash can be played I think this is a waste, but the winner was certainly decided by skill.

jfc
I'm going to lob this quote at anyone who keeps questioning why certain people are still forced to play Melee (and a legally questionable mod) for about 15 years.