Support NeoGAF

[FordGTGuy]

Where can I read something about that in general, sounds very interesting.

Digital Foundry has done a little bit of write up on it for Forza Horizon 2. Just make sure you don't get forward plus rendering confused with forward rendering as forward rendering isn't the same.

What the video shows (but my plugin doesn't handle yet) is that the tearing is pretty bad though. You get a change in image 60 times a second (so my plugin shows 60 fps), but quite often it only happens for only a part of the image.
It's still much better than the game at launch, but I would hardly call the game 60 fps under these conditions.

Thanks for the insight BlimBlim!

Also as always, keep up the great work! I love your website.

 

[Respawn]

kinda related

Ford GT Returns to Le Mans

Wave the flag mofo's old Glory is back.

 

[system11]

Did you tried PCARS with latest patch?

No, I didn't know it had been released, going to try it right now!

 

[FordGTGuy]

For people just joining the thread, I'm still offering pins for avatars!

 

[Respawn]

It's near enough a locked 60fps now. In the rain, with dynamic ToD, at 1080p, with more cars on screen than either Gran Turismo or Forza offer...

Gamersyde | ProjectCars PS4 | Post patch Rain FPS analysis video

There's only a single 1fps drop during the entire video. This is with 30 AI cars racing.

Goodness gracious

 

[Diablohead]

I do hope that weather has a bigger effect then just giving the cars less grip, puddles should cause problems and not just be there for visual flair, case in point horizon 2.

I also hope we have better pit stops, forza 1 allowed you to release on a button press so you could get back on track faster at the cost of not waiting for extra repairs and fuel, the pit stop system since forza 2 has been trash and pointless.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I do hope that weather has a bigger effect then just giving the cars less grip, puddles should cause problems and not just be there for visual flair, case in point horizon 2.

I also hope we have better pit stops, forza 1 allowed you to release on a button press so you could get back on track faster at the cost of not waiting for extra repairs and fuel, the pit stop system since forza 2 has been trash and pointless.

If weather is in fact dynamic than I would expect pit stops for changing into weather-purpose tires.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

The shitposting is real.

This has to be a joke right? right?

Do you know that no other racing game on any system is simulating 3D puddles in a circuit racing environment with hydroplaning?

Audi driver.

 

[system11]

It's near enough a locked 60fps now. In the rain, with dynamic ToD, at 1080p, with more cars on screen than either Gran Turismo or Forza offer...

Gamersyde | ProjectCars PS4 | Post patch Rain FPS analysis video

There's only a single 1fps drop during the entire video. This is with 30 AI cars racing.

It still seems to drop plenty of frames in the rain, even with just a few cars around. However, it's massively improved. Being able to turn temporal down to zero fixes the graphics, it looks brilliant with it turned off. I don't even understand how anyone thought that effect looked good, it just makes it look 30fps. They should call it the 30fps simulation filter.

 

[Conduit]

It still seems to drop plenty of frames in the rain, even with just a few cars around. However, it's massively improved. Being able to turn temporal down to zero fixes the graphics, it looks brilliant with it turned off. I don't even understand how anyone thought that effect looked good, it just makes it look 30fps. They should call it the 30fps simulation filter.

???

 

[Noobcraft]

???

The constant screen tearing creates that impression.

 

[Mascot]

Do you know that no other racing game on any system is simulating 3D puddles in a circuit racing environment with hydroplaning?

No other racing game..?

Which is the game that does?

 

[FordGTGuy]

No other racing game..?

Which is the game that does?

Forza 6?

You can argue this one all day but Dan said he didn't want weather in FM until he could do things like hydoplaning. It's pretty clear that if 3D puddles is a standout feature it is going to have major implications to the games physics engine.

 

[shinnn]

So what's the story about the Instagram pic, where did that come from? No one talking about it is kinda strange to me.

- "Press Y to rewind" prompt on the bottom, so Forza confirmed
- 2016 Ford GT interior, so FM6 confirmed
- probably a demo (laps 1/1) or point-to-point track
- place 2/24, so 24 cars on track confirmed
- huge tunnel with crazy paintings on the walls, if that is not a fantasy track, maybe someone could find out where in the world this is
- kinda looks like the car in the rear view mirror got it's headlights on but that could just be my hype-overloaded brain playing tricks on me
- are these european emergency exit lights on the ceiling of the tunnel?

Welcome to a Forza "community" hehe

Cockpit looks more darker than FM5 (in a tunnel). And looks like the tunnel lights are reflecting in the interior. Look at the left door. My guess is they are using the same lighting solution as FH2.

If its Rio, than its definitely a different layout than FM1.

An image of the new "Rio 450 anos" tunnel. There are some similarities.

 

[Mascot]

Forza 6?

You can argue this one all day but Dan said he didn't want weather in FM until he could do things like hydoplaning. It's pretty clear that if 3D puddles is a standout feature it is going to have major implications to the games physics engine.

Hydroplaning? You're assuming an awful lot from some badly-translated 'leak'. It's not fact until they tell us it is.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Looks like they are taking creative liberties with Rio like they did with Prague.

Hydroplaning? You're assuming an awful lot from some badly-translated 'leak'. It's not fact until they tell us it is.

It's called speculation and an educated guess.

You make it sound as if hydroplaning is somehow a huge reach.

 

[Synth]

Looks like they are taking creative liberties with Rio like they did with Prague.



It's called speculation and an educated guess.

You make it sound as if hydroplaning is somehow a huge reach.

I'd have wrote 3D puddles if I were marketing PGR4 as well though. So either those would count, and FM6 wouldn't hold the claim to being the only game ever to have them, or they don't count and then we really need to wait to see how they're different from that in implementation.

 

[Terbinator]

Guys, we only have to wait two days.

Dan will surely deliver...

EDIT: I wonder if we'll get a demo. Summer has historically been Forza demo time.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I'd have wrote 3D puddles if I were marketing PGR4 as well though. So either those would count, and FM6 wouldn't hold the claim to being the only game ever to have them, or they don't count and then we really need to wait to see how they're different from that in implementation.

Bizarre Creations and Turn 10 Studios are very different studios and their games and the way they approach advertising those games are also incredibly different.

Forza has always pushed driving physics forward in some way or another with every title. I don't understand why people find it hard to believe that a concept as simple as hydroplaning would be a far-gone concept for Turn 10 to include in Forza Motorsport 6. Do I know for a fact that it is in the game? No. However I can take a damn good guess based on the information available that it is.

PGR was an arcade title that was on a last-generation console and was not the type of game to push simulation physics along like FM does.

 

[Diablohead]

Bizarre Creations and Turn 10 Studios are very different studios and their games and the way they approach advertising those games are also incredibly different.

Forza has always pushed driving physics forward in some way or another with every title. I don't understand why people find it hard to believe that a concept as simple as hydroplaning would be a far-gone concept for Turn 10 to include in Forza Motorsport 6. Do I know for a fact that it is in the game? No. However I can take a damn good guess based on the information available that it is.

PGR was an arcade title that was on a last-generation console and was not the type of game to push simulation physics along like FM does.

PGR4 did not have 3D puddles from my memory and neither did it simulate any extra physics if it did.

Bizarre once said that even though their games were arcade-ish and 30fps they were still pushing high end physics under the hood, it was just tuned for their sort of game and not a simulator.

Not saying they were running 240 simulated tire collisions per second but I do believe them.

 

[Synth]

Bizarre Creations and Turn 10 Studios are very different studios and their games and the way they approach advertising those games are also incredibly different.

Forza has always pushed driving physics forward in some way or another with every title. I don't understand why people find it hard to believe that a concept as simple as hydroplaning would be a far-gone concept for Turn 10 to include in Forza Motorsport 6. Do I know for a fact that it is in the game? No. However I can take a damn good guess based on the information available that it is.

PGR was an arcade title that was on a last-generation console and was not the type of game to push simulation physics along like FM does.

PGR4 did not have 3D puddles from my memory and neither did it simulate any extra physics if it did.

I'm not really sure how we're defining 3D puddles right now tbh... but PGR4 puddles had the most obvious effect on driving physics I've ever seen/felt in a game.

I don't think sim vs arcade should really be much of a factor when declaring things 3D or not. Sega Rally Revo was an arcade game, yet the 3D track deformation is the best I've seen in any racer to date.

EDIT: Actually, Sega Rally Revo DEFINITELY had 3D pudddles, by any meaningful definition of the term.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Bizarre once said that even though their games were arcade-ish and 30fps they were still pushing high end physics under the hood, it was just tuned for their sort of game and not a simulator.

Not saying they were running 240 simulated tire collisions per second but I do believe them.

I'm not saying that they weren't running an advanced physics-engine for a arcade title. I'm saying that they did not specifically go out of their way like a studio like Turn 10 does in order to advance those physics in a realistic way.

The tire model in Forza Motorsport is a great example of this.

I'm not really sure how we're defining 3D puddles right now tbh... but PGR4 puddles had the most obvious effect on driving physics I've ever seen/felt in a game.

I don't think sim vs arcade should really be much of a factor when declaring things 3D or not. Sega Rally Revo was an arcade game, yet the 3D track deformation is the best I've seen in any racer to date.

It's been a long time since I've played PGR4 but I don't remember anything too special other than them just being death traps at speed. Sega Rally Revo did cool things with track deformation but it's not the most advanced version of such a thing I've seen, honestly that goes to Spin Tires.

Honestly I thought it was sad that SRR wasn't a successful hit but the track deformation was really one of the only features that made the game special in anyway compared to other arcade titles.

 

[Conduit]

Bizarre Creations and Turn 10 Studios are very different studios and their games and the way they approach advertising those games are also incredibly different.

Forza has always pushed driving physics forward in some way or another with every title. I don't understand why people find it hard to believe that a concept as simple as hydroplaning would be a far-gone concept for Turn 10 to include in Forza Motorsport 6. Do I know for a fact that it is in the game? No. However I can take a damn good guess based on the information available that it is.

PGR was an arcade title that was on a last-generation console and was not the type of game to push simulation physics along like FM does.

But it had puddles. So, because PGR is an arcade racer puddles doesn't count. Good.

 

[_machine]

Forza 6?

You can argue this one all day but Dan said he didn't want weather in FM until he could do things like hydoplaning. It's pretty clear that if 3D puddles is a standout feature it is going to have major implications to the games physics engine.

You don't need 3D puddles to do hydroplaning though; pCARS for example already does it through the change in wetness around the optimal racing line. It's supposed to come naturally though the tire model from the data it receives from amount of standing water under the tire and that doesn't necessarily require you to do any fancy graphical effects. In defense of the alleged 3D puddles though, it should be said the pCARS also doesn't fully match the puddles with the graphics/physics (you don't necessarily need to hit a puddle to hydroplane neither do you get the extra waterspray). It's a super cool feature though once we get it confirmed.

EDIT: Didn't PGR do proper graphics and physics driven hydroplaning too (naturally it could be 'canned effect' but still)?

 

[system11]

???

One or two a second all the time unless no cars are there. Third person camera in the rain at Laguna.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Guys, when I say the only game I mean actually calculating and performing physics for hydroplaning. Of course there have been games with puddles but I'm mainly talking about simulation circuit racers that actually realistically simulate the physics involved in such a thing.

You don't need 3D puddles to do hydroplaning though; pCARS for example already does it through the change in wetness around the optimal racing line. It's supposed to come naturally though the tire model from the data it receives from amount of standing water under the tire and that doesn't necessarily require you to do any fancy graphical effects. In defense of the alleged 3D puddles though, it should be said the pCARS also doesn't fully match the puddles with the graphics/physics (you don't necessarily need to hit a puddle to hydroplane neither do you get the extra waterspray). It's a super cool feature though once we get it confirmed.

EDIT: Didn't PGR do proper graphics and physics driven hydroplaning too (naturally it could be 'canned effect' but still)?

When I say aquaplaning I mean more deep puddles rather than thin water causing the effect to loosen traction on the tires.

 

[Conduit]

One or two a second all the time unless no cars are there. Third person camera in the rain at Laguna.

Wait...what? Where you saw race at Laguna here ???

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_pcars_gets_a_new_patch-16630_en.html

EDIT :

A little missunderstandig. I see that you play the game on your own.

 

[Mascot]

It's called speculation and an educated guess.

Fine. Don't dress it up as fact then until we know otherwise.

You make it sound as if hydroplaning is somehow a huge reach.

Patches of track with big grip reduction? I bet it's a piece of piss. You have to ask though why Turn 10 would ever want to do that any more than they'd want to introduce patches of ice everywhere. They wouldn't, because it would cause complete carnage. If these 3D puddles really aren't some Japanese interns wank fantasy then I'd imagine they'd have a similar effect to the ones in PGR4, ie causing the car to slow down ever so slightly.

But what the fuck do I know? Fuck-all is the answer, same as everyone else here except for Badned and Helios.

Guys, when I say the only game I mean actually calculating and performing physics for hydroplaning. Of course there have been games with puddles but I'm mainly talking about simulation circuit racers that actually realistically simulate the physics involved in such a thing.

When I say aquaplaning I mean more deep puddles rather than thin water causing the effect to loosen traction on the tires.

Again, this has all been imagined by you. It is not a fact that you know.

 

[_machine]

Guys, when I say the only game I mean actually calculating and performing physics for hydroplaning. Of course there have been games with puddles but I'm mainly talking about simulation circuit racers that actually realistically simulate the physics involved in such a thing.

If we don't include whatever the "3D" in the puddles mean, then yes hydroplaning has been done in a console racer, both pCARS and afaik PGR. It wouldn't be unexpected and yes it absolutely makes a difference in the actual feel, but still we both need to know more and it wouldn't be something unheard of.

It will be interesting to see what kind of a renderer they are going with though. With deferred you gain a lot in terms light and shadow casting, but at the same time lose with IQ and alpha effects. It's really important to remember that whether you are talking about Forza 5, Forza 6, GT6, Driveclub they all have thousands of differing ways to render objects and effects and each has a huge list of pros and cons.

When I say aquaplaning I mean more deep puddles rather than thin water causing the effect to loosen traction on the tires.

Aquaplaning is an effect caused by a sheet of standing water, regardless of the depth of it. It can happen out of deep puddles as well (and usually happens) so again, it's not really something different, it's simply that depth of the puddle is visually shown and driven by track data.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Fine. Don't dress it up as fact then until we know otherwise.

I never dressed it as a fact, if I was then I would have provided evidence.

Patches of track with big grip reduction? I bet it's a piece of piss. You have to ask though why Turn 10 would ever want to do that any more than they'd want to introduce patches of ice everywhere. They wouldn't, because it would cause complete carnage. If these 3D puddles really aren't some Japanese interns wank fantasy then I'd imagine they'd have a similar effect to the ones in PGR4, ie causing the car to slow down ever so slightly.

But what the fuck do I know? Fuck-all is the answer, same as everyone else here except for Badned and Helios.

You seem really mad that I'm even speculating the idea of it's existence....

I'm only making a guess based on past quotes from Dan and leaked details...

Again, this has all been imagined by you. It is not a fact that you know.

You really are pissed off aren't you? Take a chill bro, we'll find out for sure in a few days. If you can't handle speculation than don't come into a rumor thread.

If we don't include whatever the "3D" in the puddles mean, then yes hydroplaning has been done in a console racer, both pCARS and afaik PGR. It wouldn't be unexpected and yes it absolutely makes a difference in the actual feel, but still we both need to know more and it wouldn't be something unheard of.

This is of course speculation, if not obvious we're in the thread devoted directly to the rumors that started this.

It will be interesting to see what kind of a renderer they are going with though. With deferred you gain a lot in terms light and shadow casting, but at the same time lose with IQ and alpha effects. It's really important to remember that whether you are talking about Forza 5, Forza 6, GT6, Driveclub they all have thousands of differing ways to render objects and effects and each has a huge list of pros and cons.

Of course, I still think that if anything is being used though, it's going to be forward plus.

Aquaplaning is an effect caused by a sheet of standing water, regardless of the depth of it. It can happen out of deep puddles as well (and usually happens) so again, it's not really something different, it's simply that depth of the puddle is visually shown and driven by track data.

I know that, I'm referring directly to the effect to large puddles and not just sheets of standing water, of course titles have simulated such a thing.

 

[flashmouth]

Dude, I got a lotta love for you, because you're always fighting for Xbox and it's titles, but Mascot is totally right. If you're really guessing, than just make it sound like that, you're always using the leaks in arguments without doubting them for a second.
That doesn't sound like speculation at all to me.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166746905&postcount=736

Sometimes you're just as bad as the driveby Forza haters, it can get really annoying.

Let's just hope you're right in the end. We'll find out soon, but until then, nothing's proven.

 

[Mascot]

I never dressed it as a fact, if I was then I would have provided evidence.

You seem really mad that I'm even speculating the idea of it's existence....

I'm only making a guess based on past quotes from Dan and leaked details...

You really are pissed off aren't you? Take a chill bro, we'll find out for sure in a few days. If you can't handle speculation than don't come into a rumor thread.

Do not try and turn this back on me. You started it all with:

Do you know that no other racing game on any system is simulating 3D puddles in a circuit racing environment with hydroplaning?

That's not speculation.

And you can shove your 'chill bro' comments deep up your ass. I'm not in the mood to be patronised today.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Dude, I got a lotta love for you, because you're always fighting for Xbox and it's titles, but Mascot is totally right. If you're really guessing, than just make it sound like that, you're always using the leaks in arguments without doubting them for a second.
That doesn't sound like speculation at all to me.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166746905&postcount=736

Sometimes you're just as bad as the driveby Forza haters, it can get really annoying.

Let's just hope you're right in the end. We'll find out soon, but until then, nothing's proven.

I'm as bad as driveby haters because I'm speculating in a rumor thread? Jesus guys.

I'm currently putting Mascot on my ignore list as all he seems to do is clash with me in such threads and I'm not trying to stir the pot.

 

[Stevey]

lol, everyone needs to take a step back in this thread

 

[GHG]

So... This Forza 6 game seems like it could be good guys...

 

[FordGTGuy]

So... This Forza 6 game seems like it could be good guys...

Bullshit.

Spoiler

;P

 

[Synth]

lol, everyone needs to take a step back in this thread

Not me. I'm chill.

 

[Terbinator]

lol, everyone needs to take a step back in this thread

As I mentioned a bit further up, there's no need to even get heated now no matter where you stand on the speculation fence given how close we are.

Not me. I'm chill.

Netflix and chill?

 

[New002]

lol, everyone needs to take a step back in this thread

Would you say that people need to pump the breaks?

D:

 

[GHG]

Bullshit.

Spoiler

;P

Someone call the police. FordGTGuy's been compromised.

 

[Synth]

Netflix and chill?

Well now I'm just confused...

 

[AlStrong]

• Forza 5 used deferred rendering

Nope.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Someone call the police. FordGTGuy's been compromised.

Nope.

What did it use then? Don't just say nope, correct a man will ya?

 

[Respawn]

I'm as bad as driveby haters because I'm speculating in a rumor thread? Jesus guys.

I'm currently putting Mascot on my ignore list as all he seems to do is clash with me in such threads and I'm not trying to stir the pot.

This just proves Mascot right...

 

[FordGTGuy]

This just proves Mascot right...

Huh? C'mon now.

That doesn't prove him right at all.

I'm talking directly about the effects of aquaplaning in deep puddles.

I said no other racing game that I know of is doing it, keyword know of. I might've gone over the edge and said it too much as like I was saying it was fact.

However I posted after that I was speculating and it was an educated guess.

 

[BuffetChamp]

Stop the godamn dog pilling. Its pathetic. Jesus.

 

[shinnn]

Dude, I got a lotta love for you, because you're always fighting for Xbox and it's titles, but Mascot is totally right. If you're really guessing, than just make it sound like that, you're always using the leaks in arguments without doubting them for a second.
That doesn't sound like speculation at all to me.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=166746905&postcount=736

Sometimes you're just as bad as the driveby Forza haters, it can get really annoying.

Let's just hope you're right in the end. We'll find out soon, but until then, nothing's proven.

There is nothing wrong with all he said. Its just people getting mad of someone praising Forza.

If you guys think that a xbox.com official site leaking info prior to E3 is not a fact, than you guys are absolutely out of reality.

That's why the xbox community is so shit. People like Ford that are a real fans are ridicularized because he got mad with so much negative posts.

 

[soundscream]

I for one want to hear more about project cars patches. That's why I come to Forza threads!

 

[adelante]

There is nothing wrong with all he said. Its just people getting mad of someone praising Forza.

If you guys think that a xbox.com official site leaking info prior to E3 is not a fact, than you guys are absolutely out of reality.

That's why the xbox community is so shit. People like Ford that are a real fans are ridicularized because he got mad with so much negative posts.

But Mascot has a point though:

Do not try and turn this back on me. You started it all with:

Do you know that no other racing game on any system is simulating 3D puddles in a circuit racing environment with hydroplaning?

That's not speculation.

And you can shove your 'chill bro' comments deep up your ass. I'm not in the mood to be patronised today.

I'm all for speculating on rumours or leaked features but when he's stating things as fact, to go even as far as supporting it by saying no other game has it, it's a bit much imho. Again, there's no mention of hydroplaning ANYWHERE in that leak. There's a difference between saying that no other game has 3D puddles.... and no other game has 3D puddles that simulates hydroplaning.

 

[AlStrong]

What did it use then? Don't just say nope, correct a man will ya?

Apologies. I just thought it would be clear that it's simply forward rendering. There's no real case in-game for them using deferred for "many lights". It's rather straight forward (pardon the pun).

Furthermore, they did actually use MSAA in the game regardless of how ineffective it actually was due to the post-processing.

TBH, 60fps & traditional deferred is somewhat of a no-no in general due to bandwidth and fillrate requirements.