7 People — Including 2 Kids — Shot In West Philly (USA)

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i can't think of a single "pro-gun" argument against this horrific tragedy.

i really wonder if this garbage will ever stop.

I used to live about 10 blocks away from west philly, and I saw that shit crawl into my neighborhood,. thankfully my family was fortunate enough to move away before shit got THIS bad.

but others will not be so lucky.

a philly native it really makes me sick. i want to cry. i have friends and people i consider family who still live in the 63rd to 69th street area. life is just not fair.

please guys, make it stop.
 
America should have a referendum on gun control laws. I don't think the politicians can sort this out amongst themselves, they don't have the balls to with all the lobbying that's going on.
 
These shootings i believe has gotten to the point where people are starting to think business as usual when they hear this kind of news and that is very dangerous for any society. About time some with billions of dollars starts a lobby group to take the fight to the NRA.

It is just too damn heartbreaking to have to hear about shootings practically every week.
 
norinrad said:
These shootings i believe has gotten to the point where people are starting to think business as usual when they hear this kind of news and that is very dangerous for any society. About time some with billions of dollars starts a lobby group to take the fight to the NRA.

It is just too damn heartbreaking to have to hear about shootings practically every week.
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I'm a travel agent who works in Australia and I no joke have clients who refuse to travel to America due to gun laws. Barely a safety thing because they then go to South East Asia but there is a thought of what Americans must be like to have this stuff happen so often.

It's sad and its stereotyping but... It's what American culture is showing yo the world :(
 
norinrad said:
These shootings i believe has gotten to the point where people are starting to think business as usual when they hear this kind of news and that is very dangerous for any society. About time some with billions of dollars starts a lobby group to take the fight to the NRA.

It is just too damn heartbreaking to have to hear about shootings practically every week.
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Lot fewer gun deaths now than the early 90's. (crack, mostly) That's not to say things are good, but people sometimes seem to be under the impression it's gotten horribly worse in recent years. Generally though, gun deaths in the U.S. Have been on a decline for over 20 years. The gun homicide peak was 1993.
 
Bodacious said:
How's that war on drugs working out?

When people really want the military, the police, and gangs to be the only people with guns, then it will work. Right now, a majority of people in the U.S. want to be able to own a gun for self-defense. You might make some progress with magazine capacity limits or "assault weapon" regulations from time to time, but you're a million miles away from convincing people they can't at least have a shotgun (weapon used in the crime this thread is about). Heck, Joe Biden endorses the shotgun for home defense. And as for handguns, the Supreme Court has specifically stated we have the right to own those.

It won't work. Maybe someday.
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Lol. Where'd you pull that from?
 
My Facebook is about to explode with "who cares, they're black" and "cold, dead hands" and "fuck you obama for using this as an opportunity to take away our guns and balls".

I don't understand how perfectly decent people in almost every way can have such hateful, damaging opinions. And worse, spread it to the younger generation - like my cousins are seeing as their dads and uncles post this shit on social media.
 
RELAYER said:
Because the citizens don't want it.
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Fuck the citizens? Like seriously 70% of the US citizens are actively or passively holding the country back with stubbornness. Ugh healthcare, ugh gun control, ugh taxing the rich. Idiocracy.

Then again it's your country, have fun sticking your head deeper and deeper into the sand.
 
The solution isn't that we need more gun laws, it's that we need to enforce the ones we already have. There are already laws on the books that cover pretty much every little thing that people want to restrict, but they're either ignored or simply cannot, under the current structure, be enforced.

Take the "mentally incompetent" laws as a perfect example. Most of these go completely unreported, under the concept of "doctor-patient confidentiality". So a person with a diagnosed history of violent mental illness (so long as they don't have an actual police record because of it) can walk right into any gun store and pass a background check with flying colors. THAT is the kind of shit that makes the whole system break.

And then you have to remember that all the laws in the world won't matter one whit if the shooter acquired the gun illegally. Ironically, the cities with the most stringent gun laws are the ones where the most gun violence happens. Most people only hear (or care) about mass shootings, rather than all the one-on-one shootings and senseless murders that happen every single day in places like Chicago and Detroit. All with illegally-obtained weapons. So what are the laws really doing, then?
 
I actually worry about what consequences there will be for making stricter gun laws, or banning guns. Can anybody tell me how they think criminals that don't turn their guns will react? It just seems like an invitation to open season for breaking and entering, and robberies for criminals who know that law abiding citizens have no guns. I know, there's a problem with guns. I know that we should do something about it. Yet, I still wonder if taking law abiding citizens' guns will make things safer, or spiral even further out of control. The U.S. Is already absolutely saturated with guns. I know for a fact that if I wanted one today, I could get an illegal gun for about $50. These people selling these illegal guns aren't just going to give them up.
 
Sign said:
People saying, why bother if someone might, possibly, somehow, one-day, potentially, be able to purchase a gun with laws in place sound like people who are part of the problem to me. Full. Stop.

If this country really wanted to get rid of guns, we could do it. Maybe not all guns, but most. At the very least, it would be expensive and difficult to obtain one.

1) massive buy-back program for all regular citizens.

2) make all production, manufacturing and distribution of fire arms / ammunition illegal.
a) all companies that do this have their current inventory purchased and destroyed.
b) all smaller re-sellers have their inventory purchased and destroyed.

3) make it illegal to purchase, sell, trade and gift fire arms / ammunition
-) this will force more known websites to clamp down on these sort of transactions, along with gun shows, etc.

4) make it illegal to open and conceal carry.

5) people may keep what guns they have at home, but they must be registered.
a) if one is caught with an unregistered fire arm in the house that is a felony / fine and the weapon is confiscated.
b) if the weapon is used in a crime it is confiscated and the owner is held liable, unless it was stolen and reported stolen previously. They are still fined.
-) most people will end up selling their weapons, because why risk it and they haven't used it.

6) any weapon confiscated is destroyed.

7) Profit.

Are you going to have a black market? Of course. But it is going to be for a niche group that is going to have a dwindling supply of weapons. Because here is the thing, a lot of people don't own fire arms and most who do have never had to use them. Hell, the average police officer has never had to discharge their weapon either.

And, unlike prohibition and war on drugs where any asshole can grow weed / make alcohol, making a fire-arm / ammunition is much more difficult.

It will mean people who want to get a gun will have to know how, it will mean needing money to afford the purchase, it will put time between a person "wanting to use a gun" and getting it, etc.

It won't stop everything, but it will be better.
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Good luck trying to pull that off, the other side has guns.
 
Read about this last night. Harrowing stuff. A shotgun at a goddamn block party. I usually don't go into West Philly, but what the fuck
 
wiggleb0t said:
Fuck what citizens want! If they can't understand a change for the better is in the interest of public safety then you get what you're given not what you want.
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That's the road to tyranny. Besides, this is America. It's built on the foundations of giving the people what they want.
 
deefol said:
Which other advanced country has this problem?
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You mean a relatively high percentage of the population, especially young males, willing to commit murder for (usually) meager gains or petty reasons? None. The USA stands alone on that among developed nations.
 
Bodacious said:
Lot fewer gun deaths now than the early 90's. (crack, mostly) That's not to say things are good, but people sometimes seem to be under the impression it's gotten horribly worse in recent years. Generally though, gun deaths in the U.S. Have been on a decline for over 20 years. The gun homicide peak was 1993.
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It's not declining anywhere near fast enough.

That's the problem.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
Good luck trying to pull that off, the other side has guns.
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I'm sure the Federal Government with its police, national guard, military, and billions of dollars in budget would absolutely, positively be quaking in their boots - just completely scared shit-less.

Anyone who thinks they are going to be anything other than a speed-bump in the face of this countries firepower shouldn't have a gun to begin with because they are delusional.

Gun culture in this country is out of control.
 
ssolitare said:
I see this image very often in yards or over peoples houses.

Fuck this blatant lie, and fuck this false bravado culture that doesn't even make sense at face value.
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If anything, it's toxic masculinity on a cultural scale. Given its name, toxic masculinity is usually seen as a male-specific issue, but I think it's a wider cultural problem. People of either gender may often feel the need to be tough and to never ask for help. Boys are more likely to be encouraged into this mindset, leading to higher suicide rates and auto accidents, but it can apply to everybody. My cousin is a hella Texan, free-spirit kind of gal, and at a recent family vacation she refused to see a doctor even when she was pissing blood and running a fever. This kind of bravado can have some really unfortunate side-effects. While acting like a badass can be fun as hell, the application of these values can be really harmful to individuals and to our society.
 
ssolitare said:
I see this image very often in yards or over peoples houses.

Fuck this blatant lie, and fuck this false bravado culture that doesn't even make sense at face value.
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If I was looking for a house to break into I think I would skip the one with that sign on it. It may be a lie, but it's definitely a deterrent.
 
HeySeuss said:
Yeah I don't understand why that is. Where did the Obama's trying to take your guns come from? Fox news rhetoric? Because he's done a terrible job so far.
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It's the extreme alternative, and is pretty unlikely. It's just what everyone assumes whenever someone says the words "gun" and "regulation" in the same sentence.
 
teacupcopter said:
I'm a travel agent who works in Australia and I no joke have clients who refuse to travel to America due to gun laws. Barely a safety thing because they then go to South East Asia but there is a thought of what Americans must be like to have this stuff happen so often.

It's sad and its stereotyping but... It's what American culture is showing yo the world :(
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That's why I find it hilarious when my american friends traveling to Western Europe start worrying about their safety. Just lately one of my friends told me he was really considering cancelling his trip to France because he didn't feel safe. Dude grew up in Chicago lmao

Bodacious said:
The first gun I ever called "mine" was a 12 gauge bolt-action shotgun given to me by my grandfather. He mail-ordered it out of the Sears-Roebuck catalog when he was 14 years old and it was delivered to his front door. That gun has never harmed anything but quail, squirrel, and rabbits. Every other gun I've ever owned has never done anything but punch holes in paper targets, soda cans, etc. You probably don't want to hear it and you might throw some statistics around to refute it, but the truth is that owning guns doesn't make a person a killer. The type of person with the dead heart it takes to commit crimes such as in the OP will always be able to obtain a gun if they want one. Even if you were able to pass a blanket ban on all types of firearms in the USA, there'll be hundreds of millions of them still on the street after those who follow the law surrender theirs (there won't be many who do). Any attempt at forceful confiscation will turn into a bloody clusterfuck, and you'll be giving rise to a black market with accompanying violence to make prohibition look like a day at the beach. The guns aren't going anywhere, so probably better to start looking at changing the people. Outside of organized crime stuff, this shit wasn't happening in civilian life 80-100 years ago, and they sure as hell all had guns too.

I think we should start with abolishing all prohibitions on recreational drugs, i.e. "the war on drugs." All it does is keep a huge criminal industry funded and competitive.
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You're 100% right. People really need to ask themselves this simple question " Why am I so obsessed with guns and why do I enjoy owning a device meant to kill other human beings ? What is so wrong with me that I love these ugly killing machines so much when in every other western country in the world, 99% of civilians have never put their hands on a gun and give ZERO fuck about the gun culture ? Is it a predisposition ? Was I born with it ? Or is it propaganda/brain-washing during my childhood ? " Then yeah maybe mentalities will change and things will get better.


Ooohh wait that's not what you meant ?

M'okay.
 
Ray Wonder said:
I actually worry about what consequences there will be for making stricter gun laws, or banning guns. Can anybody tell me how they think criminals that don't turn their guns will react? It just seems like an invitation to open season for breaking and entering, and robberies for criminals who know that law abiding citizens have no guns. I know, there's a problem with guns. I know that we should do something about it. Yet, I still wonder if taking law abiding citizens' guns will make things safer, or spiral even further out of control. The U.S. Is already absolutely saturated with guns. I know for a fact that if I wanted one today, I could get an illegal gun for about $50. These people selling these illegal guns aren't just going to give them up.
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Gun buyback? It's what we did. Encourages people to get rid of them. But I don't know. Maybe Australia doesn't have the same paranoid psychosis?
 
tearsintherain said:
I like to hope in 50 years time our medical technology will advance to the point where brain imaging technology diagnoses and treats people with sociopathic tendencies at birth, so we can fix the causes of our problems rather than try to bandage the symptoms.

Of course based on recent studies that will also cut down on the number of CEOs in the country, which may not be a bad thing.
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You don't want gun control you just want undesirables filtered out at birth, unbelievable.
 
tkscz said:
Ever been to a hood before? That type of shit happens here more often than it should, resulting in innocent people getting hurt over disputes between two or more people. That said, it's still a tragedy when it happens. Innocent people losing their lives is bullshit. I feel sorry for the families who have to bury their loved ones, and can relate.
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I have. I know. It doesn't change my post.
 
The fact this was a shotgun kind of proves that legislation against certain firearms is stupid. In all the proposed bans and limitations, nobody ever mentions shotguns. Even Joe Biden was saying to but a shotgun for protection:

https://youtu.be/wIuk3G9Xixc?t=40s

Any available firearm could potentially be used in an attack. The second amendment is not getting repealed. Really not much will change without a huge cultural shift.
 
I am running out of words to say on these matters.

Government needs to have strict rules on ammunitions.
 
My impression is that we need:

1) better social programs that pull people out of poverty,
2) a more equal, fair, and tolerant society in general,
3) to require background checks, psychological evaluations, training, etc., for gun owners, and
4) to remove the majority of guns from society.

1 and 3 are possible via government. 2 is possible through bottom-up efforts. 4 seems impossible unless it's voluntary.

If we got even one of these, it would help. The more we accomplish, the better. That's my take on it at least.
 
Bodacious said:
There's plenty of data to back that up. Try this .
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This study does not mention self-defense, he said the majority of Americans want to be able to own handguns for self defense.

It is also from October of last year--how many more shootings have we had since then?

I know this is from a random-sampled Gallup poll, but they only asked 1000 people. It's just a poll--it can be useful to gauge some opinions, but it can also be biased, manipulated, and misused. A poll is not 'the majority of Americans--FACT'.
 
QUOTE=Ray Wonder;169288893]If I was looking for a house to break into I think I would skip the one with that sign on it. It may be a lie, but it's definitely a deterrent.[/QUOTE]
They are advertising that they have very expensive, easily sellable items in their house. Not a good idea.
 
poppabk said:
They are advertising that they have very expensive, easily sellable items in their house. Not a good idea.
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Not all guns are that expensive. Laptops/electronics are easier to sell. The item can also kill the person who's trying to steal it. It's a pretty ok idea.

fizzik said:
Gun buyback? It's what we did. Encourages people to get rid of them. But I don't know. Maybe Australia doesn't have the same paranoid psychosis?
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I'd call it cautious. There're almost as many guns as people here. Not including the illegal ones. Making a mistake with that many armed criminals could have consequences.
 
Bodacious said:
Yeah Canada has a permitting system but once you fill out the paperwork you can start ordering guns off the internet straight to your door. Canadians can also buy stuff that hasn't been allowed or strictly regulated in the USA for over 80 years, like sawed-off shotguns and silencers. The per capita gun ownership rate there is high, but no devastating gun death statistic. Why is that? (It certainly isn't only because of that permitting system. Might help, but not so much that it accounts for the discrepancy vs. USA)
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Generally people who own guns don't live in the major cities. They actually own guns for hunting. Toronto for example, if you include the police, has less than 1% of the population with a gun permit.
 
Jesus, I rode right past this on the train going in last night. Little kids running around everywhere. That's so terrible.
 
How often do people who legally carry stop these shooting sprees? That is one of the main arguments I hear for allowing guns is the need to protect self and others. Are there any stats suggesting that this ever actually happens? If there are no stats, why not?
 
Bodacious said:
The first gun I ever called "mine" was a 12 gauge bolt-action shotgun given to me by my grandfather. He mail-ordered it out of the Sears-Roebuck catalog when he was 14 years old and it was delivered to his front door. That gun has never harmed anything but quail, squirrel, and rabbits. Every other gun I've ever owned has never done anything but punch holes in paper targets, soda cans, etc. You probably don't want to hear it and you might throw some statistics around to refute it, but the truth is that owning guns doesn't make a person a killer. The type of person with the dead heart it takes to commit crimes such as in the OP will always be able to obtain a gun if they want one. Even if you were able to pass a blanket ban on all types of firearms in the USA, there'll be hundreds of millions of them still on the street after those who follow the law surrender theirs (there won't be many who do). Any attempt at forceful confiscation will turn into a bloody clusterfuck, and you'll be giving rise to a black market with accompanying violence to make prohibition look like a day at the beach. The guns aren't going anywhere, so probably better to start looking at changing the people. Outside of organized crime stuff, this shit wasn't happening in civilian life 80-100 years ago, and they sure as hell all had guns too.

I think we should start with abolishing all prohibitions on recreational drugs, i.e. "the war on drugs." All it does is keep a huge criminal industry funded and competitive.
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Finally someone with a brain. People love to blame the weapon as if it wakes up in the morning thinking, "I'm going to kill some people today". No it's the people with the problem not the guns. Switzerland has many guns and a lot of the their population owns them but you don't see them killing each other all the time right?
 
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