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[Stone Ocean]

Excluding games where you get to choose is pretty damn convenient

When players are given the opportunity to see a game universe exclusively through the eyes of a female character with her own unique story, it helps challenge the idea that men can’t or shouldn’t identify with women, their lives, and their struggles.

That's nice and all if games were about gender specific struggles. Whether a character is male or female doesn't affect the reasoning of 99% of plot points in gaming.

 

[SmokyDave]

Am I missing something, or is the categorised list of the 76 games not available?

I'd like to see how the games were classified.

 

[Hindl]

I thought the increased representation in females in this E3 was an encouraging sign. It also helps that two of the titles I'm most excited about (Recore and Horizon) starred female protagonists in new IPs, and they have both gotten an incredible amount of buzz. I think publishers will take note of that.

 

[Dictator93]

blue and pink.

Probably not the best colour scheme.

 

[Steverulez]

She lost me when she said Dishonored 2 shouldn't have given players the option to play as Corvo in addition to Emily. I love the idea of playing as Emily, and I love the idea of playing as Corvo as well. And they play differently. Developers found a way to let everyone play as whatever they want, but you want them to take away options? That doesn't make sense to me.

And her "exclusively female view" argument doesn't necessarily apply because we don't know how different Emily's version of the game will be.

Yeh I saw her tweet about that and she lost me there. In the end, the choice of both is great IMO. I'll pick whichever character suits how I want to play best

 

[Nirolak]

She lost me when she said Dishonored 2 shouldn't have given players the option to play as Corvo in addition to Emily. I love the idea of playing as Emily, and I love the idea of playing as Corvo as well. And they play differently. Developers found a way to let everyone play as whatever they want, but you want them to take away options? That doesn't make sense to me.

And her "exclusively female view" argument doesn't necessarily apply because we don't know how different Emily's version of the game will be.

In the interviews about the game they said it has a notably different plot per character which is why you can't shift mid campaign, even though you're playing the same levels.

 

[gotstrangepowers]

Seriously? -_- They really should exclude non-humanoids.

Uh, ok, including Yoshi as a male is silly.

 

[Druz]

You think a lot of people base their gaming purchase decisions on the sex of the protagonist? And if so, don't you think it's a problem?

No I don't think it's a problem whatsoever actually. I probably wouldn't buy a Mirrors Edge game if it was lead by a male protagonist. I probably wouldn't buy a Gears of War game if it was led by a female protagonist.

I think the bigger problem is this subculture of ultra sensitivity. People will buy what they want. Making publishers and developers lose money just to push a FemFreq agenda is absurd.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Seriously? -_- They really should exclude non-humanoids.

I guess it makes it hard to make charts and figure out statistics, but when you're talking about wanting to have games where we "identify with women, their lives, and their struggles," it seems weird to somehow include Yoshi in this discussion. I really don't think anyone is identifying with a little green dino dude.

Am I missing something, or is the categorised list of the 76 games not available?

I'd like to see how the games were classified.

Was thinking the same thing. Does anyone have a list of the games shown at all these conferences so we can do the stats ourselves?

 

[Parsnip]

I always prefer to have a choice rather than forcing one gender or the other.

 

[Einbroch]

I'd like to see a list of games she used and where she drew the line, because counting Yoshi in the male category is a bit of a headscratcher.

 

[SinShep]

You think a lot of people base their gaming purchase decisions on the sex of the protagonist? And if so, don't you think it's a problem?

It is a problem, but not one that can be changed in an instant. There's almost definitely a notable percentage of people who see a female protagonist then become no longer interested in that game, myself included.

 

[Loakum]

This year's E3 had more female leads in games than at any other time. I guess being gaming's female version of Bill O'Reilly, she has to remain upset. Gotta feed the crowd the red meat they crave. Next up, gaming's war on christmas..

 

[Mesoian]

Skyrim has a male on the boxart and all the posters.

Oh purely promotional.

Yeah, I can't think of any beyond splatoon either.

Edit: OH, Dungeon of the Endless seems to have 3 of the female characters in it's promotional art, though it's a little difficult to make out given the nature of it.

 

[RoboPlato]

She lost me when she said Dishonored 2 shouldn't have given players the option to play as Corvo in addition to Emily. I love the idea of playing as Emily, and I love the idea of playing as Corvo as well. And they play differently. Developers found a way to let everyone play as whatever they want, but you want them to take away options? That doesn't make sense to me.

And her "exclusively female view" argument doesn't necessarily apply because we don't know how different Emily's version of the game will be.

I didn't get that either. She would have a point if Emily was being hidden and they were just showing Corvo but as it stands I didn't even realize Corvo was playable until a day after the Bethesda conference.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I guess it makes it hard to make charts and figure out statistics, but when you're talking about wanting to have games where we "identify with women, their lives, and their struggles," it seems weird to somehow include Yoshi in this discussion. I really don't think anyone is identifying with a little green dino dude.

Hey that's offensive, I have to shit out eggs every day for a living.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

No I don't think it's a problem whatsoever actually. I probably wouldn't buy a Mirrors Edge game if it was lead by a male protagonist. I probably wouldn't buy a Gears of War game if it was led by a female protagonist.

Why is that? I'm genuinely curious.

I think the bigger problem is this subculture of ultra sensitivity. People will buy what they want. Making publishers and developers lose money just to push a FemFreq agenda is absurd.

How is anybody preventing you or anybody from buying what you want? This is not a movement to censor or remove games from the market.

 

[Majmun]

When I play ecco the dolphin it helps challenge the idea that people can't or shouldn't identify with animals, their lives, and their struggles.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Why no information on games written or led or designed by females? Has that initiative been successful?

Not sure, I'd love to see stats on this metric too. I presume it's more difficult to gather data for from the E3 floor.

 

[Lord_Balkan]

What about not wanting to project onto any character? I don't care about the race/gender of the characters I play, I don't identify with them, and frankly, I find the concept of identifying with a character a little bit baffling.

Yeah, I rarely ever project myself onto a character. I do roleplay as the characters / protagonists I play as, but that is different than identifying with them. Also, I find it hard to believe that some people cannot identify with people of any gender. When I do identify with a fictional character (not just in games, but in general), it is because the emotions they are expressing coupled with the context of the situation they are in. Gender is pretty low on the list of what affects that for me. Obviously I only speak for myself so maybe someone can better explain that.

 

[Zaph]

Just taking into account gender exclusivity - 7 to 24 seems like some pretty damn good progress IMO. Especially when you take into account how long the question of gender representation in gaming has been part of the zeitgeist and how long games take to develop.

 

[Lanrutcon]

I find it hard to care about that graph, tbh. It seems very...nitpicky? reaching? I'm struggling for the correct word here.

 

[benicillin]

This year's E3 had more female leads in games than at any other time. I guess being gaming's female version of Bill O'Reilly, she has to remain upset. Gotta feed the crowd the red meat they crave.

I don't think anything in what she wrote made her sound "upset." It's all pretty reasonable, straightforward and easy to understand even if you don't agree with it.

I think some people are too defensive and take Anita's opinions, which is really pretty basic and not inflammatory, way too seriously.

 

[Beefy]

If Anita counted Yoshi as a male, what did she count the Unraveled character as?

It is good to see more female leads tho.

 

[Leafhopper]

Hey that's offensive, I have to shit out eggs every day for a living.

I always knew you were unique Stone.

 

[TimmiT]

As an aside, 76 games at E3 seems surprisingly low.

It's based on games that appeared during press conferences, and it's not counting those that only appeared in montages or sizzle reels. So for example, the new Ratchet & Clank game isn't counted.

 

[Ghost]

The statistics are an interesting reflection of where the industry is at but I don't think you can infer problems from numbers of titles. Just look at all the controversy last Tomb Raider game caused, the sex of the protagonist is way less important than the actual contents of the game.

 

[ultron87]

I think the bigger problem is this subculture of ultra sensitivity. People will buy what they want. Making publishers and developers lose money just to push a FemFreq agenda is absurd.

Who is making someone lose money here? Or making anyone do anything?

 

[Mesoian]

When I play ecco the dolphin it helps challenge the idea that people can't or shouldn't identify with animals, their lives, and struggles.

Especially when the overarching narrative thread of Ecco the Dolphin is brotherhood.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I have to chime in as being impressed by how many games offer free character creation or at least gender options.

 

[DragonSworne]

So over 50% of the games at E3 let you play as a female lead.

Is this a problem?

 

[Nirolak]

Why no information on games written or led or designed by females? Has that initiative been successful?

To my knowledge that's still a relatively number.

If we stick to game directors with active major projects right now, I can only think of Amy Hennig (Visceral Star Wars), Sara Jansson (Mirror's Edge Catalyst), and Kim Swift (something at Amazon).

That's something that comes with time though. The more games there are that appeal to women, the more women who make games, especially as the associated stigmas drop.

 

[Zombie James]

That 46% number is huge and a great step forward.

...we need more games that are fronted exclusively by female characters...

I don't agree with this, though, at all. At the end of the day it should be about giving players choices. I don't see how forcing female-only player characters is any better than forcing male-only player characters, it's just going from one extreme to the other. They both remove choice from the player. Ideally, that 46% number should be at 100%.

 

[Infinite]

So over 50% of the games at E3 let you play as a female lead.

Is this a problem?

I don't see OP presenting it as a problem.

 

[mr2t]

No? How did you come to that conclusion?

It's depressing to see so many gamers act as if discussing gender representation in games is an hostage situation where terrorists ask for 50/50 representation or else Kratos will be executed on camera, or something.

When do women become equally represented then?

Do you think Anita would be complaining if males were the ones underrepresented? I don't think so.

 

[Hugstable]

it seems weird to somehow include Yoshi in this discussion. I really don't think anyone is identifying with a little green dino dude.

I'd like to see a list of games she used and where she drew the line, because counting Yoshi in the male category is a bit of a headscratcher.

lol it's probably cause it's early in the morning, but both of these got me dying of laughter right now. I don't think anyone is identifying with the monster eating, egg shooting dino (is anyone on gaf a dino?). I always thought Yoshis could go either way also and weren't explicitly male or female (I don't actually have a clue lol)

 

[Griss]

So let's say that for some odd reason a woman refuses to play as a male. Sexist, but let's go with it.

68% of games at this e3 would still cater to this sexist female. That's both surpising given the historical audience for $60 'traditional' games and a huge improvement over past years. By any accounts this is an improvement and close to a fair shake.

Not seeing where the problem is, really. Taking good stats and making them negative to fit a narrative. Very annoying.

 

[Shrike_Priest]

So removing the 10 N/A games here, I get:

63.6% of games where you can play as a woman.
36.3% of games where you can only play as a guy.
10.6% where you can only play as a woman.

I suspect that's a large increase from last year and a gigantic one from, say, five years ago.

As an aside, 76 games at E3 seems surprisingly low.

One might almost think that there's been a joint and conscious effort among games industry professionals to actively push for more inclusive games casts. Potentially due to some kind of external stimuli...

 

[Steverulez]

So over 50% of the games at E3 let you play as a female lead.

Is this a problem?

We need to get a male equality movement going!*

Spoiler

*complete joke

 

[PumpkinSpice]

If Anita counted Yoshi as a male, what did she count the Unraveled character as?

Yoshi is male.

 

[notworksafe]

So over 50% of the games at E3 let you play as a female lead.

Is this a problem?

But not exclusively female. Cause the best way to prove feminism is about equality is by saying having the ability to choose between both genders is bad.

 

[Gestault]

This data is really encouraging, and while I'm glad there are some games where the decision to "lock in" a particular gender exist, almost half of games outright allow the choice, and whether it's a preference for male or female, more than half of all games could be played in the given user's preferred gender.

This is even taking into account an outlook that might implicitly criticize a work because protagonists aren't a particular identity type, which I think can be reductionist. Bring on the detailed examinations of how gender is used!

 

[addik]

I think it's great that Female Frequency is keeping tabs in gender representation in video games.

I find some of their points vague though. What makes a video game "violent?" Is it the presence of combat, or can a game with comic mischief... say Wattam's hippie explosion.... be counted as violence? In cases where violence is a key component in games, how is violence represented and treated within the game can change its depth. Just because a game has found another way to show the depth of the human experiences and of human emotion does not make it any more profound than a game that is able to show that through violence (though a change would certainly be nice).

I guess I am more frustrated at the fact that video game studies is not gaining traction and we have to resort to drive-by statistics to see the state of video games. I don't know, I just feel like something is lacking at Female Frequency at times despite its good intentions.

Also can we classify Yoshi as a "male?" I have read several articles stating non-human characters as gender neutral even if we assign gender-specific characteristics to them, mainly because their concept of "gender" might not necessarily be the same as ours. I want to read more on that but I can't seem to access them now.

 

[Mesoian]

I don't see OP presenting it as a problem.

OP isn't.

FemFreq seems to though.

If anything, the fact that 50% of games allow for gender choice is something that should be celebrated and encouraged. This air of, "yeah but what about female only games" seems dismissive of real positive change.

 

[SinShep]

She lost me when she said Dishonored 2 shouldn't have given players the option to play as Corvo in addition to Emily. I love the idea of playing as Emily, and I love the idea of playing as Corvo as well. And they play differently. Developers found a way to let everyone play as whatever they want, but you want them to take away options? That doesn't make sense to me.

And her "exclusively female view" argument doesn't necessarily apply because we don't know how different Emily's version of the game will be.

If that's her viewpoint of how to fix this problem, then that's no longer feminism. That's misandry.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

It's good that a lot of you don't have a problem identifying (or "roleplaying", etc.) with whatever protagonist, but you have to keep in mind a LOT of publishers still think their audience is terrified of anything but a young white male protagonist. Just look at the thread where a Sony exec says they were really afraid of having a female protagonist in Horizon.

It's great that you, as part of the audience, don't care about the sex of a game's protagonist, but game makers still think, whether they're right or wrong, that a big part of their consumers DO care.

 

[WhiskeyKnight]

blue and pink.

Probably not the best colour scheme.

Yeah, for someone so concerned about stereotypes, she sure relies on them for aesthetics.

 

[depths20XX]

Lol @ Yoshi being labeled as a male. Where those egg's coming out of? Didn't Nintendo basically say Yoshi's are asexual and neither male or female?

 

[Frodo]

I see the outraged posts about someone being outraged already started.

Why are people saying she is upset? She just did the breakdown and opinionated on why it is a good thing to have more female protagonists in games. Stop being so defensive. She isn't saying we should cancel the games that don't have a female protagonist or don't give you a choice.

It's good that a lot of you don't have a problem identifying (or "roleplaying", etc.) with whatever protagonist, but you have to keep in mind a LOT of publishers still think their audience is terrified of anything but a young white male protagonist. Just look at the thread where a Sony exec says they were really afraid of having a female protagonist in Horizon.

It's great that you, as part of the audience, don't care about the sex of a game's protagonist, but game makers still think, whether they're right or wrong, that a big part of their consumers DO care.

Exactly.

Warms my heart that people were actually happy (at least here in GAF) about the decision, though.

 

[Infinite]

When I play ecco the dolphin it helps challenge the idea that people can't or shouldn't identify with animals, their lives, and their struggles.

Because ecco the dolphin is a narrative driven tale about the complexities of dolphin society.