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[DoktorEvil]

RPG is the most nebulous and pointless genre that basically says nothing about what the game is on its own. Is Infamous an RPG too? Grand Theft Auto? Batman: Arkham Knight? They have many of the same trappings as an Elder Scrolls game too. Many RPGs don't let you create a character either.

A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game[1][2]) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[3] Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

RPG=Role Playing Game, so literally you are playing a role in a fictional setting. Acting.

Calling Turn/Commend Based games "legit RPGs" or Action based combat systems "not RPGs" is semantics, but nevertheless the roles in the FF7 will not change.

because people focus on whats in the realm of possiblity.

Its a horrible comparison, its like trying to directly compare bloodborne to hyperdimension neptunia just because both are RPGs. Its as ridiculous as asking for Civilization 6 to be a real time strategy game

They are RPGs with different mechanics and different art styles. What about calling it RPG is incorrect?

 

[Arkeband]

Sub Genres, maybe, but they are all part of the genre called RPG.

Skyrim and Final Fantasy share the same genre, despite coming from wholly different dev teams from different countries with different mechanics.

Again, why is everyone so focused on the battle system when there were legit posts in here that wants to retcon Aerith's death LOL

Because we have posters saying "I hope it's not turn-based/ATB" and then "Modern RPG's are all action RPG's, look at the Witcher sales figures" and then they turn around a few posts later and go "I never said I wanted it to be an action game!"

 

[Two Words]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

RPG=Role Playing Game, so literally you are playing a role in a fictional setting. Acting.

Wikipedia is just some guy writing up something. You don't do any decision making in the story in most Final Fantasy games so I guess Final Fantasy isn't an RPG. The biggest influence you have in FFVII's story is who you date at the Golden Saucer, so I guess it isn't an RPG either. And that first sentence of their definition of an RPG is the most nebulous video game definition ever.

 

[muteki]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

RPG=Role Playing Game, so literally you are playing a role in a fictional setting. Acting.

This is like the Godwin's law of any RPG discussion, at the end of the day every game is an RPG if you define it so loosely.

I really would be curious what the discussion would be like and how opinions might change if they announced they were remaking 6 instead of 7.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Because we have posters saying "I hope it's not turn-based/ATB" and then "Modern RPG's are all action RPG's, look at the Witcher sales figures" and then they turn around a few posts later and go "I never said I wanted it to be an action game!"

I think Nomura is going to piss off anyone no matter what he does or doesn't do.

I've mentally prepared myself for it.

Wikipedia is just some guy writing up something. You don't do any decision making in the story in most Final Fantasy games so I guess Final Fantasy isn't an RPG. The biggest influence you have in FFVII's story is who you date at the Golden Saucer, so I guess it isn't an RPG either. And that first sentence of their definition of an RPG is the most nebulous video game definition ever.

This is like the Godwin's law of any RPG discussion, at the end of the day every game is an RPG if you define it so loosely.
.

I'm taking the definition and applying it to this context. Not every game is a RPG, but FF7 is because you are give the ability to role play(you can name every character out of choice and can control what abilities your characters do and don't have with Materia, despite having a fixed narrative)

Let me know the next time in a game you can change Batman's name from Bruce Wayne to whatever. I have some good rich playboy billionaire names that are better suited than Bruce Wayne.

I really would be curious what the discussion would be like and how opinions might change if they announced they were remaking 6 instead of 7

With 6, there would be just as much, if not more, fervor and discussion, especially since game journalists normally call FF6 a perfect game.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

They are RPGs with different mechanics and different art styles. What about calling it RPG is incorrect?

the problem is putting them in the same genre. They are not. RPG is too loosely defined to be 1 genre

 

[Two Words]

I think Nomura is going to piss off anyone no matter what he does or doesn't do.

I've mentally prepared myself for it.





I'm taking the definition and applying it to this context. Not every game is a RPG, but FF7 is because you are give the ability to role play(you can name every character out of choice and can control what abilities your characters do and don't have with Materia, despite having a fixed narrative)

Let me know the next time in a game you can change Batman's name from Bruce Wayne to whatever. I have some good rich playboy billionaire names that are better suited than Bruce Wayne.



With 6, there would be just as much, if not more, fervor and discussion, especially since game journalists normally call FF6 a perfect game.

You can't rename characters in FFXIII. I guess it's not an RPG now? What about Kingdom Hearts?

 

[tbb033]

It was mentioned in the teaser that this would bring joy, but also fear. So far, there's a lot of people who fear the game won't be exactly the same... And I simply don,t understand that. If people want to have the same game, they can just play the original.

But if they wanted to play the original with graphics that don't look like ass and maybe with a decent translation for a change, what are they to do? That's what people have been hoping for, not FF7 ACTION RPG or whatever else might be going on here.

And before anyone brings it up, the PC to PS4 port doesn't even remotely fill that desire. It's just a way to play the original version if you somehow don't have something that can play PSX games.

 

[Two Words]

I think Nomura is going to piss off anyone no matter what he does or doesn't do.

I've mentally prepared myself for it.





I'm taking the definition and applying it to this context. Not every game is a RPG, but FF7 is because you are give the ability to role play(you can name every character out of choice and can control what abilities your characters do and don't have with Materia, despite having a fixed narrative)

Let me know the next time in a game you can change Batman's name from Bruce Wayne to whatever. I have some good rich playboy billionaire names that are better suited than Bruce Wayne.



With 6, there would be just as much, if not more, fervor and discussion, especially since game journalists normally call FF6 a perfect game.

You can't rename characters in FFXIII. I guess it's not an RPG now? What about Kingdom Hearts?

RPG is a hugely non-specific genre. It's like action game or racing game. If they made Gran Turismo 7 into a Burnout Paradise style game, you'd have people complaining because they went away from it being a simulation racing game. You can't exactly say "What are you talking about guys? It's still a racing game!"

 

[Crash Station]

Sub Genres, maybe, but they are all part of the genre called RPG.

Skyrim and Final Fantasy share the same genre, despite coming from wholly different dev teams from different countries with different mechanics.

Again, why is everyone so focused on the battle system when there were legit posts in here that wants to retcon Aerith's death LOL

RPG is a MASSIVE umbrella term, even when taking into account the same region. I'd sooner compare ARPGs to character action games like Devil May Cry and God of War (just slowed down and with numbers) than I would Pokemon or ATB 1.0 Final Fantasy.

I'd also take a retcon of Aerith's death over it going ARPG.

 

[Arkeband]

"So why did you remake FF7 into a free-roaming first person Skyrim clone?"

Nomura:

alternatively, themoney.jpg

 

[Crash Station]

When was the last time a remake changes the battle system entirely and are more well received than the original? I can't think of any thus far, as most remakes I've played are rightfully faithful to the original, of course upgraded with modern convenience, mechanic refinement, balancing and such.

I can't even think of a remake that altered things to such an extent beyond Lufia 2, and we all see how that turned out.

Hell, the best game remake of all time (Resident Evil) was extremely faithful while also bringing amazing new elements to the fold to keep it fresh.

 

[DoktorEvil]

You can't rename characters in FFXIII. I guess it's not an RPG now? What about Kingdom Hearts?

RPG is a hugely non-specific genre. It's like action game or racing game. If they made Gran Turismo 7 into a Burnout Paradise style game, you'd have people complaining because they went away from it being a simulation racing game. You can't exactly say "What are you talking about guys? It's still a racing game!"

Wikipedia is the best I have. Until someone has an Oxford dictionary for what a role-playing game is, that definition is the one I'm going by.

By definition, Dark Souls is much more of an RPG than FFXIII or Kingdom Hearts. You assume the role of an avatar character.

RPG is a MASSIVE umbrella term, even when taking into account the same region. I'd sooner compare ARPGs to character action games like Devil May Cry and God of War (just slowed down and with numbers) than I would Pokemon or ATB 1.0 Final Fantasy.

Well, Bloodborne tiptoes that lines.

I'd also take a retcon of Aerith's death over it going ARPG.

Monster.

 

[Two Words]

Wikipedia is the best I have. Until someone has an Oxford dictionary for what a role-playing game is, that definition is the one I'm going by.

By definition, Dark Souls is much more of an RPG than FFXIII or Kingdom Hearts. You assume the role of an avatar character.



Well, Bloodborne tiptoes that lines.



Monster.

The whole point is that you cannot act that a ATB RPG and an action RPG are the same genre in any meaningful sense just in the same way you cannot act like a simulation racing game and an over-the-top racing game are the same genre in any meaningful sense.

 

[Karkador]

The whole point is that you cannot act that a ATB RPG and an action RPG are the same genre in any meaningful sense just in the same way you cannot act like a simulation racing game and an over-the-top racing game are the same genre in any meaningful sense.

It probably doesn't make a huge difference, considering that original FF7 wasn't the most complex RPG game to begin with.

 

[Two Words]

It probably doesn't make a huge difference, considering that original FF7 wasn't the most complex RPG game to begin with.

FF7 wasn't the most complex RPG, but it makes a huge difference. The fact that it isn't the most compex RPG ever has nothing to do with the kind of difference it would make to the game as a whole.

 

[DoktorEvil]

The whole point is that you cannot act that a ATB RPG and an action RPG are the same genre in any meaningful sense just in the same way you cannot act like a simulation racing game and an over-the-top racing game are the same genre in any meaningful sense.

The difference between turn based/command based and Action based battle systems will not be what defines FF7 as a RPG.

If REMAKE loses the ability to customize Materia sets, name Characters, and control the 3 party members during battle, it's no longer the same RPG.

 

[Two Words]

The difference between turn based/command based and Action based battle systems will not be what defines FF7 as a RPG.

If REMAKE loses the ability to customize Materia sets, name Characters, and control the 3 party members during battle, it's no longer the same RPG.

I never said it wouldn't be an RPG anymore. We've been saying it would be a different genre. Turn based RPGs and action RPGs are different genres under the same wide umbrella. Again, you wouldn't say "But it's still a racing game, guys!" if people complained about Gran Turismo 7 being turned into a Burnout style game.

 

[DoktorEvil]

I never said it wouldn't be an RPG anymore. We've been saying it would be a different genre. Turn based RPGs and action RPGs are different genres under the same wide umbrella. Again, you wouldn't say "But it's still a racing game, guys!" if people complained about Gran Turismo 7 being turned into a Burnout style game.

Combat systems are changing, not that the actual plot or mechanics are changing from a RPG into another genre(from what we know).

The combat system changing would not fundamentally change FF7 as a RPG. If what I posted above changes, it's no longer an RPG.

I'm holding the game and the genre to that definition.

 

[Karkador]

FF7 wasn't the most complex RPG, but it makes a huge difference. The fact that it isn't the most compex RPG ever has nothing to do with the kind of difference it would make to the game as a whole.

Yes, it does have something to do with that.

FF7's combat was pretty simple. You attack, cast spells, occasionally hit your limit break to do a super attack, and use items.

All the ATB really did was just make the battles take longer, for better or worse. If it was being carried out in real time, it would lose a pretty marginal amount of depth. Other games - other RPGs! - have already demonstrated that you can do these things faster without resorting to a menu, or even "turns". Once again, I have to say - game design has changed a LOT since FF7 was made.

From what I remember of Crisis Core, it really wasn't too far off from hitting the mark; it was just all the nonsense unnecessary slot reel stuff that made it bad.

I never said it wouldn't be an RPG anymore. We've been saying it would be a different genre. Turn based RPGs and action RPGs are different genres under the same wide umbrella. Again, you wouldn't say "But it's still a racing game, guys!" if people complained about Gran Turismo 7 being turned into a Burnout style game.

Gran Turismo is known for car customization and winning money from races to expand your options and capabilities. Burnout is an arcade racer with none of that. Why the exaggerated comparison? Nobody is saying, "they should remove character customization and level ups from FF7"

 

[TheGreatDirector]

The difference between turn based/command based and Action based battle systems will not be what defines FF7 as a RPG.

If REMAKE loses the ability to customize Materia sets, name Characters, and control the 3 party members during battle, it's no longer the same RPG.

Well you're definitely gonna have to get used to all the character being named already and fully voiced.

 

[Two Words]

Combat systems are changing, not that the actual plot or mechanics are changing from a RPG into another genre(from what we know).

The combat system changing would not fundamentally change FF7 as a RPG. If what I posted above changes, it's no longer an RPG.

I'm holding the game and the genre to that definition.

You can pretend turn based RPGs and action RPGs are the same, but the rest of the world isn't following your definition.

 

[muteki]

Well you're definitely gonna have to get used to all the character being named already and fully voiced.

It's going to be Tie-dus/Tee-dus all over again.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

It's going to be Tie-dus/Tee-dus all over again.

I wonder how they'll pronounce Cait Sith.

 

[DoktorEvil]

You can pretend turn based RPGs and action RPGs are the same, but the rest of the world isn't following your definition.

It's not my definition... It's the common definition for a ROLE PLAYING GAME.

Mechanically all RPGs by definition should give the player the ability to roleplay. AFAIK, all Zelda games gives the player the option to change the name of the hero Link, therefore by definition Zelda is a role playing game.

Why are you disputing the definition? I didn't create it and it's not my fault people do not understand it's usage.

Well you're definitely gonna have to get used to all the character being named already and fully voiced.

That's fine. It'll be called "RPG", even though by definition that usage is incorrect.

I don't care what happens to the combat and to VA, just so long as the narrative isn't radically changed.

 

[Two Words]

It's not my definition... It's the common definition for a ROLE PLAYING GAME.

Mechanically all RPGs by definition should give the player the ability to roleplay.



That's fine. It'll be called "RPG", even though by definition that usage is incorrect.

I don't care what happens to the combat and to VA, just so long as the narrative isn't radically changed.

Again, you still pretend there is no dividing difference between turn based RPG and action RPB. To you, they all fit under the same nebulus blob that is RPG. Witcher 3, Disgaea, they're all the same.

 

[Arkeband]

I wonder how they'll pronounce Cait Sith.

Benedict Cumberbatch

 

[DoktorEvil]

Again, you still pretend there is no dividing difference between turn based RPG and action RPB. To you, they all fit under the same nebulus blob that is RPG. Witcher 3, Disgaea, they're all the same.

Sub Genre and Genre are different. We are talking about the genre as a whole.

I still hold firm that changing the combat system would not make FF7 into anything else but a RPG.

Can I name my avatar character/characters? Yes it is a RPG.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

It's not my definition... It's the common definition for a ROLE PLAYING GAME.

Mechanically all RPGs by definition should give the player the ability to roleplay. AFAIK, all Zelda games gives the player the option to change the name of the hero Link, therefore by definition Zelda is a role playing game.

Why are you disputing the definition? I didn't create it and it's not my fault people do not understand it's usage.



That's fine. It'll be called "RPG", even though by definition that usage is incorrect.

I don't care what happens to the combat and to VA, just so long as the narrative isn't radically changed.

Except Zelda isn't, which is a common misconception. Outside of the name changing, everything is predetermined in Zelda. There's no stat system, no EXP, there are specific items required by the player to gain in specific orders for most of the games, and there is little to no actual customization in the games with the exception of how many potions you might want to carry.

ARPG still have stats, multitudes of weapons, magic systems, and skill management. Simply making a game real time won't eliminate the core of FF7's rpg element.

 

[The Last One]

I wonder how they'll pronounce Cait Sith.

Lord Sith

 

[crooked spin]

Have there been any games that rendered FFVII characters in "realistic" detail? Nomura's comment that the FFVII:AC look is too stylized for this game has me intrigued.

 

[Two Words]

Sub Genre and Genre are different. We are talking about the genre as a whole.

I still hold firm that changing the combat system would not make FF7 into anything else but a RPG.

Can I name my avatar character/characters? Yes it is a RPG.

This is pointless. Nobody is contesting that FFVII would no longer be an RPG. You have people saying it would no longer be a turn based RPG and that is a genre change. Nobody cares to have a pointless semantics arguments about genres and subgenres when it is completely understood the kind of impact that has on the game as it plays.

 

[illmatic22]

He designed some of the FFXV characters from the E3 '13 trailer and NPCs, like Cidney/Cindy. I'm almost sure these, which I absolutly love, are done by him, too:

These are all unknown, yet, and I really hope we'll hear more about them at gamesom!
---

I love this attitude, which also made the premise of FFXV/ersus so exciting:
— There’s a lot of parts that are being altered. But have there not been any opposing voices to changing things from the original?

Nomura: There certainly are some staff who put too much of a focus on the ‘VII-ness’ and are resistant to changing it. But that FFVII-ness isn’t something you can easily point to and say ‘that’s it!’ about, and it means different things for different people. I’ve got a lot of attachment to VII myself. But those “feelings” and being “trapped” by the FF of the past are two separate things. If you make up your mind, “‘FF is like this,” then you can’t make FF.

— I see. What do you think the requirements for a FF creator are, Mr. Nomura?

Nomura: I think that love for FF alone isn’t enough to make FF. Someone who isn’t satisfied with FF can make it. A creator has to be someone who wants to change FF, to surpass it. Kitase and myself, all the staff from back then rewrote FF in that way. And with this remake too, we’re naturally going into it with that same mettle. The next time we will be able to bring you info about this game will be in the winter and beyond that, but I promise that we will show you something surprising that breaks away from the concept of FF that we’ve seen so far.

Whew, I'm beyond hyped now.

I like this. All of this.

 

[Brandon F]

Thank fuck there are some sane people in here that agree turning this into an ARPG would be a crime.

 

[Acquiescence]

I wonder how they'll pronounce Cait Sith.

I always pronounced it KATE (as in the female name) Sith myself. No idea if that's correct, but it felt right.

 

[speiky]

I wouldn't even know what to say to people who seriously want that

Shhhhhhh, don't say anything. Just get the pitchforks...

 

[Pagusas]

I always pronounced it KATE (as in the female name) Sith myself. No idea if that's correct, but it felt right.

I didnt know there were any other ways to pronounce it.

 

[crooked spin]

I didnt know there were any other ways to pronounce it.

Believe it or not the official pronunciation is KET SHEE. Not joking.

 

[BocoDragon]

Except Zelda isn't, which is a common misconception. Outside of the name changing, everything is predetermined in Zelda. There's no stat system, no EXP, there are specific items required by the player to gain in specific orders for most of the games, and there is little to no actual customization in the games with the exception of how many potions you might want to carry.

ARPG still have stats, multitudes of weapons, magic systems, and skill management. Simply making a game real time won't eliminate the core of FF7's rpg element.

I used to argue Zelda wasn't an RPG... Except it broke down after I thought about it long enough.

Killing bosses gives you hearts. Your hearts increase and you have more health. You can get different swords and shields which have different damage and defense. To get to these things you often have to brave many enemies, so even if they don't give you EXP directly, killing them is still the way to improve your stats.

That's basically a very stripped down, Nintendo take on RPGs.

 

[Various Artists]

I always pronounced it KATE (as in the female name) Sith myself. No idea if that's correct, but it felt right.

I thought that I read once that the actual pronunciation was actually like "Ket She"

 

[DoktorEvil]

This is pointless. Nobody is contesting that FFVII would no longer be an RPG. You have people saying it would no longer be a turn based RPG and that is a genre change. Nobody cares to have a pointless semantics arguments about genres and subgenres when it is completely understood the kind of impact that has on the game as it plays.

Except the numerous posts of hyperbole in this very thread stating this?

Regardless, changing combat mechanics would not change FF7 so radically that the game would magically switch genres. All of this fear over vague comments Nomura gave during interviews is unjustified.

REMAKE still needs to have the ability for the player to roleplay in order to be called a RPG.

It also needs to have the ability to customize ability sets via Materia, have a similar narrative to FF7, and allow full control over the party. That is it.

There does not need to be any strict loyalty to being turn based vs being action based combat systems. If Nomura figures out a system in which the player will have full control of the 3 party members in an action combat setting simultaneously, he will still have people bitch and moan that "it isn't FF7". He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

 

[Acquiescence]

Thank fuck there are some sane people in here that agree turning this into an ARPG would be a crime.

Add me to the mentally stable peeps - turn-based or bust.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Regardless, changing combat mechanics would not change FF7 so radically that the game would magically switch genres.

This is exactly what it would do

RPG is too broad to be considered 1 genre.

 

[Koozek]

Believe it or not the official pronunciation is KET SHEE. Not joking.

LOL, the things you learn
Okay, so the name's Scottish Gaelic. That explains the unexpected pronunciation, see the actress Saoirse Ronan who is pronounced like "Seer-sha".

 

[Two Words]

Except the numerous posts of hyperbole in this very thread stating this?

Regardless, changing combat mechanics would not change FF7 so radically that the game would magically switch genres. All of this fear over vague comments Nomura gave during interviews is unjustified.

REMAKE still needs to have the ability for the player to roleplay in order to be called a RPG.

It also needs to have the ability to customize ability sets via Materia, have a similar narrative to FF7, and allow full control over the party. That is it.

There does not need to be any strict loyalty to being turn based vs being action based combat systems. If Nomura figures out a system in which the player will have full control of the 3 party members in an action combat setting simultaneously, he will still have people bitch and moan that "it isn't FF7". He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Again, nobody cares to have this pointless RPG/subRPG debate with you. You can continue to act as if all RPGs are the same if you wish.

 

[Arkeband]

LOL, the things you learn
Okay, so the name's Scottish Gaelic. That explains the unexpected pronunciation, see the actress Saoirse Ronan who is pronounced like "Seer-sha".

My whole life's a lie.

 

[Kipper]

I thought that I read once that the actual pronunciation was actually like "Ket She"

Good, there are at least two of us who say it that way. Or three, I guess, including whoever wrote that.

 

[Koozek]

My whole life's a lie.

Okay, now I'm curious how you pronounced it
I don't even remember how I did before I read about the correct way last year. Probably something like Soar-ears, haha.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Again, nobody cares to have this pointless RPG/subRPG debate with you. You can continue to act as if all RPGs are the same if you wish.

Except you spent quite a bit of time debating me on insisting there's a difference. Lol.

I never said "all RPGs are the same". I said "changing combat mechanics does not make FF7 any less of a RPG".

 

[GuardianE]

Genre nomenclature is meaningless and often archaic. If you told a random person on the street to define what a fighting game is versus an action game, they wouldn't know. Isn't there action in fighting games? Isn't there fighting in action games? Or shooters? Or. RPGs even?

Basically the actual name of a genre doesn't matter anymore and it's senseless to use those as qualifiers for a game's genre.