Man decapitated at company near Grenoble, France, Islamist flag found on site
- Thread starter De-mon
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Not good in yours, perfectly fine in my opinion. Religion doesn't need protection.
As same as you can't fault every Muslim for the action of the extremist you can't fault me just because there are racist who use this discussion for their motives.
We should be able to discuss or even dismiss any Religion without any repercussion or the veiled accusation of being a racist pos..
Europe in general isn't a good place to fuck with. We still have people around that were alive back when a certain European nation committed the largest genocide in history for no real reason whatsoever. We already have rising nationalist parties and a lot of people are getting fed up with immigration. Europe's still pretty progressive but who knows what could happen if this keeps up, not to mention if Europe gets its own 9/11.
And before someone asks no, this is not a "but what about those poor Muslims" post or an attempt at diverting attention away from Islamic extremism. Terror groups need to be dealt with, their members rooted out. The concerns about political Islamism needs to be addressed. But I'm worried that because of the fact that this is so hard to actually do that a string of terror attacks, or a large attack, can cause polarization to reach a critical point where the situation could snowball out of control.
Kill Your Masters
Member
That is the main problem.
Its not that damn islam when hate is being thrown around, but its the damn islamists, and damn islamists can be anyone who is looking middle eastern/arab like, so you create a picture in society that every dark middle eastern arab looking person might be a fucked up sick pos out to kill you.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Wow... This kind of news makes me overcome with grief. Hard to function properly with all of this.
| Praxis |
Banned
David Cameron keeps saying Islam is a religion of peace. Surely this is meaningless now, shouldn't it be Islam is made up of a majority of peaceful people?
As long as you have countries hanging, beheading and stoning people to death it just isn't true, it just shuts down any discussion about any of the obvious problems before the discussion has even begun. It's just part of the problem and wrapping people in cotton wool so they don't get offended isn't helping with finding the root cause.
As long as you have countries hanging, beheading and stoning people to death it just isn't true, it just shuts down any discussion about any of the obvious problems before the discussion has even begun. It's just part of the problem and wrapping people in cotton wool so they don't get offended isn't helping with finding the root cause.
LostCaress
Member
Another sad day
cm osi
Member
yes, of course. chances are high that those people aren't born in france, so if you already knew the guy for other things you boot him out before he does it again
QuicheFontaine
Member
There is indeed actual racism...somewhere? I feel you've drifted a bit from the original kamorra post you were replying to where you said
So you presumably think west4th was being racist when he said "Islam is a cancer"? Or was it somewhere else?
ManUnkindH
Member
Another sad day
120 civilians killed by ISIS in Syria today
at least 27 in Tunisia
at least 16 in Kuwait
one man decapitated in France
I have no words.
And all of this during Ramadan...I have no words either.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Fuck this barbarism bullshit. Can't fucking stand it
These motherfuckers need to get raided by the world, no fucks given. A fucking onslaught by world forces on their strongholds
Terra Firma
Banned
There's no real economic reason until Da'esh takes over most of Iraq's oilfields.
This is the mentality that pretty much gave birth to ISIS. As horrible as they are, this is not the solution.
Bullshit. What you guys are doing is shutting down a discussion about Religion by accusing everyone who dares to criticizes said Religion being secretly a Racist.
I fucking despise every single Religion, it's a breeding ground for intolerance, homophobia, hate and funnily enough actual Racism.
Fuck, this shit makes me mad.
You're wrong. Every one of those attacks was perpetrated by French citizens. Born and raised in France. 1st generation immigrants don't do shit. They're not a threat. Why do you keep thinking these are outsiders ? We all knew this would eventually happen because salafists have been gaining more and more ground in the last 2 decades. They have been rallying young muslims from poor suburbs all over the country. They have taken peaceful mosques and turn then into propaganda tools. All leading to this.
Part of the muslim youth in France, whose parents were moderate muslims from North-Africa or even just " cultural " muslims were radicalized by the salifi agenda. Most of them wanted to " go back to their roots " as part of their quest for identity. Only they didn't go back to the Islam of their parents (the maliki version, which is a peaceful one) but to the one promoted by Wahabi scholars and clerics. And it all lead to this. It was bound to happen.
We were lucky to get 0 terror attack post 9/11 while Spain and England got their own big terror attacks. Now we're their main target in Europe. And you know what out government did just yesterday ? Signed a new multi-billions contract with Saudi Arabia.
Going after the people that are commiting these atrocities is not the solution?
Where is your logic ?
There really is no word for what I'm feeling that would do justice to this whole ordeal. It even brings out the worst in me, a meek, nonconfrontational man by making me for a brief moment fantasize about being there just before these actions happen and slaughter the perps. Violence breeds violence etc. They propably want the western world to grow hateful of islamist so that normal peaceful islamist turn resentful towards westerners thus making them more easily radicalized in the future.
Do you know how ISIS was originated? You should read about it: http://www.eurasiacenter.org/publications/ISIS_Briefing_Colin_Tucker.pdf
There are dozens of articles essays about it.
I depise all religions too and I'm no fan of Islam but I'll understand this argument about how it's not possible to criticize Islam. Islam gets shit on , whether it's on TV or in newspapers, every day of the week. I mean there are shows on French TV about Islam all the fucking time. You have intellectuals, both liberal and conservatives, who are very vocal about it and they get invited all the time on TV to talk about how bad Islam is. And they're very respected/popular so yeah I don't get your argument.
Because that would take invading the Middle-east, which would give rise to ISIS type groups. Makes sense. I don't think they disagree about the nature of ISIS, or that being rid of them is a good thing.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
I've always wondered why Salafists and Wahabi followers are even allowed to spew their hateful beliefs. To even allow them to countries that are secular.
"We don't always execute apostates... sometimes we just imprison them."
"Oh, I guess there's nothing to see here... time to move along."
I don't think that most Muslims literally want to kill apostates, but I don't think your explanation is doing what you think it's doing. And there are still people who are murdered for apostasy today despite there not being a Caliphate, so I guess it's not entirely impractical.
Psyrgery ES
Member
I feel you man. All you can do is take stock in the fact that there are others who feel and think as you do.
You missed my point. I'm not some guy on the French television. I'm obviously talking about how things go down on here.
Worldwar II. We still want to prove how super tolerant we are.
Seriously, the moderate Muslims must gain a voice. And fast. Mumblin to yourself, "I'm not okay with this simply" isn't cutting it at this point. Take a stand, moderate Muslims, and be loud!!
You can be hella bigoted though.
And fuck these attackers. What they believe and what I believe has almost nothing in common.
Kamorra said:
1. That's not accurate as it paints with an absurdly wide brush..
2. You are making the case of religious fanatics stronger by spouting this bullshit. Congratulations. You are their ally.
We take a stand all the time and get killed for it all the time. You lot don't see this because you're hopped up on Kamorra style THEY"RE ALL THE SAME idiocy. Take a look at Malala Yousafi. You think she's the only one? The number one target of fanatics is moderates.FoxSpirit said:
Yeah, whatever. If guys decided if I'm racist against Religion or just an ISIS ally shot me pm.
Never said that.
TimeEffect
Member
Speaking of leadership, what is up with those hateful religious leaders who come into the country and establish an audience? I know some of them get banned, but are some of them still around/popular? Are there any more liberal religious leaders that have big followings too? Do more liberal Muslims follow any particular spokesperson in the community?
You are making incredibly bigoted statements. And it's the over the top and hateful reactions of people like you that makes it incredibly easy for fanatics to make the case that 'there is war on Islam and we must protect ourselves'. Congrats.
TimeEffect: To a large degree your question doesn't make sense. Unlike the view you might get from the outside Muslims are not homogenous at all. Each small community (divided by sect, language, country of origin, etc.) has its own leaders and any sort of attempt to organize all the disparate peoples such as ISNA aren't paid much attention.
Edit: Kamoora. Oh you didn't? Well as a Muslim what I heard from your lovely little rant was that you despise my world view and what I think.
You did read my posts but you missed the difference of what I wrote and what you're accusing me of. Not once did I talk about people I talked about Religion and Religion only. It's your distorted view which makes this about individuals. Congrats.
Do you care about what my world view is? I'm pretty sure you don't and it does no harm to any of us two. Let me spell it out. I don't have a problem with you or any other individual for that matter. I don't like any form of Religion.
What-the-actual-fuck.
I've been in France all this week for work meetings and leaving on Sunday back to good, old, safe Australia.
Seriously this has been one of the most unusual work trips I've had in a LONG time and i go all over the world with my job. France is definately teetering on the brink of something truly scary with this + taxi strike + other bubbling things (i'm sure).
Clearly this attack (these?) happened to take advantage of the taxi drivers strike chaos.
But still...so long as my flight gets off the ground!
I've been in France all this week for work meetings and leaving on Sunday back to good, old, safe Australia.
Seriously this has been one of the most unusual work trips I've had in a LONG time and i go all over the world with my job. France is definately teetering on the brink of something truly scary with this + taxi strike + other bubbling things (i'm sure).
Clearly this attack (these?) happened to take advantage of the taxi drivers strike chaos.
But still...so long as my flight gets off the ground!
Sorry its France. They strike. There's no connection. Its just what they do.
You're insane, man.
I'm a religious person. How does this not apply to me? You hate what I think, you hate what my family thinks, you hate what a lot of my friends think, and you don't even fucking know me or them.
You can't expect that everyone agrees with you about your beliefs. You're the one attacking me in this thread, you're making it personal where it shouldn't be. If you really don't get that I don't hate you or whoever you listed I can't help you. Just a tip: You're not Islam.
Sinfamy
Member
They don't believe in your religion.
thecoolFNF
Member
Well said. And unfortunately Muslims are going to be demonized by mainstream media now and more ignorance and violence will happen. It's a vicious cycle that won't end anytime soon.
I'd say it's fairly clear that it's not you or them that is being referred to then.
I think the idea of lashing an adulteress is abhorrent. Does this mean I'm directly insulting you?
I follow the religion of Islam. It's a strong part of my idenity and my worldview. You hate Islam. You hate a large part of my identiy and my worldview. If you don't then maybe it's not Islam that you hate and you're wording things incredibly poorly.
That's perfectly fine. Hating my identity and my worldview without knowing me though kinda is.
How so? He despises all religions. I'm a religious person.
Saying you think lashing adulteresses is abhorrent is kind of completely not the same as saying you despise all religions like kamorra up there does.
He said he despises religions, not the religious.
Edit: Scrapped the rest because none of this is actually relevant to the OP.
And like I said my religion makes up a large part of my identity and my worldview. Saying he hates my identity and my worldview but he's just fine with me personally is kinda nonsense.
QuicheFontaine
Member
People should be respected, ideas don't need to be.
Edit:
It's like, if I really love football, and I'm a massive football fan and I go to matches every week and wear football shirts. You're still allowed to not like football, and to say that it's an expensive waste of time and boring. That's not an attack on me. Dig?
I get where you're coming from but you're also really bending over backwards here to get offended.
If you want to tie that much of your identity up in certain ideology (I'm guessing a subset of such, as Islam is really varied), that's great, but it's on you how you deal with the criticism others have towards that ideology.
It goes without saying that criticism of a religion, or the general idea of religion, isn't a criticism against an individual or group. It's really a stretch to suggest it's racist as some of stated in this thread. If you can't take part in, or even be party of, discussions of this nature without being offended, then perhaps you should refrain from engaging in them instead of making generalizations about everyone else.
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