Video shows FSU QB throwing a punch at a woman at a bar

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EightBitNate

Member
Prost said:
Can you legally initiate a grab with someone who hasn't actually touched you yet in a confrontation? I'm not so sure. Also, she may have felt threatened from his pushing her against the bar and was also responding in self defense. Honestly, I think the beginning of the confrontation is rather grey (whether she felt provoked/threatened by his pushing or she was the aggressor turning on him), but I feel his overwhelming force is what's problematic. Ultimately, they could have both handled it better, but he stepped over the line by inflicting serious damage to her.
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I dunno. Should he have just waited with his hands covering his face? There was clearly a spot open and he was entitled to it. Whether he bumped her not is unclear, but she is the one who threatens violence. Also, punching someone/kneeing their junk is not an appropriate response for getting a fist grabbed, either.

And a punch is a punch. She probably thought she would have gotten away with hitting him, so she threw the punch thinking it wouldn't have any serious repercussions. It's not the guy's fault for not giving her a free pass. Obviously a guy of his size can hit hard. Just don't touch him.
 
J

Jenov

Member
HariKari said:
Yes, if you feel threatened.
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And what if she felt threatened by him too? You see, even with the video it can be argue either way, even in this thread you have people who have watched the video and see it the opposite way. Regardless of who started the confrontation, the guy ended it very, very poorly.
 
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Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew

Banned
Contrary to popular belief, punches by ladies hurt like a bitch it came from.

Contrary to popular belief, you should man/woman the fuck up and defend yourself from abuse from any species and gender.
 
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EightBitNate

Member
Prost said:
And what if she felt threatened by him too? You see, even with the video it can be argue either way, even in this thread you have people who have watched the video and see it the opposite way. Regardless of who started the confrontation, the guy ended it very, very poorly.
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But, like others have said, it's a crowded bar. People are going to bump into you. If that's any reason to feel threatened, then maybe you shouldn't go out.
 
J

Jenov

Member
EightBitNate said:
I dunno. Should he have just waited with his hands covering his face? There was clearly a spot open and he was entitled to it. Whether he bumped her not is unclear, but she is the one who threatens violence. Also, punching someone/kneeing their junk is not an appropriate response for getting a fist grabbed, either.

And a punch is a punch. She probably thought she would have gotten away with hitting him, so she threw the punch thinking it wouldn't have any serious repercussions. It's not the guy's fault for not giving her a free pass. Obviously a guy of his size can hit hard. Just don't touch him.
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I don't like these kind of mind reading responses. Oh hey look, it's a girl in a confrontation with a guy! Well she probably thought she was going to get away with hitting him! Because you know she's a girl, and girls might/sometimes do that, so I'm going to assume the worst of this particular girl and say that's PROBABLY what happened here. Come on. That's wrong thinking from the get go.
 
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EightBitNate

Member
Prost said:
I don't like these kind of mind reading responses. Oh hey look, it's a girl in a confrontation with a guy! Well she probably thought she was going to get away with hitting him! Because you know she's a girl, and girls can/sometimes do that, so I'm going to assume the worst of this particular girl and say that's PROBABLY what happened here. Come on. That's wrong thinking from the get go.
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Ok so why else would one person start shit with a person twice their size?
 
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hobblygobbly

Member
Both are idiots, one for escalating and one for provoking. Both need to learn self-control. Yeah she took the swing at him but a little self control can restrain your response and walk away from that.

I can't understand how people so easily get into fights, I've been in situations where fights could've easily occurred but I can control it even if someone would think I "lost". Only fight I retaliated or actually provoked was when I finally stood up for my friend that was being bullied in school constantly (and the same bully bullied me in the past). When I came up and smacked the fuck out of him he stopped his shit, only fight I've been in and I 100% provoked and escalated that. I got in trouble for that but damn it felt good. Otherwise I've never been in an actual fight, confrontations yes but I've always managed to deescalate/control it. I never look for the confrontations/fights either directly.

People need to walk away/learn self-control/discipline.
 
J

Jenov

Member
EightBitNate said:
Ok so why else would one person start shit with a person twice their size?
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Why does any confrontation happen between any different types of people? All sorts of reasons! You can't just point to her and say that she did it because she's a girl and was just trying to get away with it! That's rather sexist tbh.
 
I

IchigoSharingan

Member
zeshakag said:
Can you imagine if he went Titan X? I shudder at the thought, but have always heeded the words of Dark Man: "X gon give it to you."
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Well I ain't no mathemagician but I figures he lacked the ROPs to really retaliate effectively even with them Xtra cores. Doesn't matter. He been uninstalled from the team and nary a soul around who shan't shake their heads at his lack of restraint. Won't do any gigahertzing for nobody no 'more.
 
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Maximo

Member
THRILLH0 said:
Does the same apply to children?
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anigif_enhanced-30579-1405454740-9.gif
 
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EightBitNate

Member
Prost said:
Why does any confrontation happen between any different types of people? All sorts of reasons! You can't just point to her and say that she did it because she's a girl and was just trying to get away with it! That's rather sexist tbh.
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Ok so I guess we can just pretend that it didn't happen that way because there's nothing that explicitly says otherwise, even though it looks a lot like it.
 
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Miles Quaritch

Member
Prost said:
What? This type of thinking just isn't rational. Your response should be reasonable, not made up prophecy of what could have happen. She could have reach for a gun too, so maybe he should have just shot her to make sure and end the situation quickly.
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You're being silly.
 
S

Seanspeed

Banned
I think if you did some sort of study where you took a large sample population of equal guys and girls and asked them to punch a bag or something and measure the force, the result would be that guys on average hit way, way harder than girls do. Besides just being bigger and stronger, guys often grow up play fighting or real fighting with each other and will punch more effectively.

It's not that all girls are delicate flowers or that they cant be tough and strong and know how to fight, and not that I'm going to feel sympathetic towards a chick as a 'victim' if she punches first and gets hit back, but I think until I think there is more equality there, guys should probably show a lot more restraint when it comes to hitting a girl. Like, shit better be proper 'exceptional circumstance' before you strike back.
 
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Goodlife

Member
Put me in the "it's never right" corner.
But also in the "what would have been right" corner.

You'd walk away, I guess. Try and get a drink at the other end of the bar... but what if she followed you, pulling the same shit. Do you just then go and sit down with no drink?

Just walk out and go to another bar, I'd guess? Or ask one of your friends to go up to the bar for you???? Go and tell a member of staff???
All solutions seem pretty rubbish... I'm hardly a macho man, but even I'd have to draw the limit at not being able to get a drink because someone was being mean to me at the bar.

But punching her back is the worse outcome of all.
 
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Raziel

Member
If the roles were reversed and the guy instigated all the violence on the drunk bar girl just trying to get at the bar and then got cold cocked by the girl, she would be applauded and the guy would be outright ridiculed.
 
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Jenov

Member
EightBitNate said:
Sorry if it comes off that way, you may be right, and I apologize.
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No apologies needed! It's awesome of you to understand. And I do see where you're coming from as well, I just don't think it's very relevant to what was the ultimate outcome (serious injury to the woman's face). Plus it's kind of gross that a lot of poster's think a person deserves that sort of retribution when there was nothing similar done to him. The only way I could even somewhat justify that kind of damage is if she had actually done similar harm to his groin (which was only alleged?). Anyways, off to bed for me.
 
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THRILLH0

Banned
Tiamatsword22 said:
She's an adult.

Why aren't 14 year olds allowed to vote?
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lmao and you want to talk about false equivalence.

I'm talking about the potential to cause bodily harm. Yeah ideally nobody should be hitting anybody else but as a general rule, male football players hitting girls is probably not a great option.

Let's say we're talking about the Rock and a grown woman like Natalie Portman. Does the blanket justification some posters are touting still apply?

The whole "she started it so all bets are off" mentality is short-sighted.
 
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EightBitNate

Member
THRILLH0 said:
lmao and you want to talk about false equivalence.

I'm talking about the potential to cause bodily harm. Yeah ideally nobody should be hitting anybody else but as a general rule, male football players hitting girls is probably not a great option.

Let's say we're talking about the Rock and a grown woman like Natalie Portman. Does the blanket justification some posters are touting still apply?

The whole "she started it so all bets are off" mentality is short-sighted.
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You seem to be off the mark on the reasons we don't hit children.

To me, its moral reasoning. I don't hit a child because they are young, dumb, and don't know any better. Their physical strength is also a factor sometimes.

By your logic, the reason not to hit a 14 year old is because of their low physical strength. If a child is able to take me on, it's ok for me to hit them?

Those who can't take a hit and are able to recognize that should NOT be starting shit with anyone.
 
R

Rur0ni

Member
VanillaCakeIsBurning said:
Interesting posts, the problem is that we're no longer dealing with reality here but instead internet armchair bizarro world where humans have the computational capacities and speeds of supercomputers.
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Couldn't disagree more. But hey, maybe what we perceive as reality is different. I grew up in a place of physical confrontation (the streets! hah), and I worked a job where men fought and were injured frequently.
 
T

THRILLH0

Banned
EightBitNate said:
You seem to be off the mark on the reasons we don't hit children.

To me, its moral reasoning. I don't hit a child because they are young, dumb, and don't know any better. Their physical strength is also a factor sometimes.

By your logic, the reason not to hit a 14 year old is because of their low physical strength. If a child is able to take me on, it's ok for me to hit them?

Those who can't take a hit and are able to recognize that should NOT be starting shit with anyone.
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Hey I completely agree with you on that last part.

My own morality suggests that a man should not hit a woman and that's couched in the fact that generally speaking, a man can both absorb and dish out more physical pain than a woman.

I know that's seen as a somewhat sexist point of view these days and I also know it's not true in all situations.

I think there's probably a middle ground but I just don't really like the blanket "don't start none, won't be none" mindset that some people employ with no nuance.
 
R

rambis

Banned
As a dude who clearly is stronger I don't think he should have hit her like that. No matter if its justified or not it's jolusy unethical. But she should really keep her hands to herself. Nobody to blame but her.
 
V

Vagabundo

Member
Seanspeed said:
I think if you did some sort of study where you took a large sample population of equal guys and girls and asked them to punch a bag or something and measure the force, the result would be that guys on average hit way, way harder than girls do. Besides just being bigger and stronger, guys often grow up play fighting or real fighting with each other and will punch more effectively.

It's not that all girls are delicate flowers or that they cant be tough and strong and know how to fight, and not that I'm going to feel sympathetic towards a chick as a 'victim' if she punches first and gets hit back, but I think until I think there is more equality there, guys should probably show a lot more restraint when it comes to hitting a girl. Like, shit better be proper 'exceptional circumstance' before you strike back.
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Not disagreeing with you, but we wouldn't even be having this conversation if this girl was a guy, no matter the difference in guys size and weights. It would have been seen as appropriate force.
 
A

akachan ningen

Member
Not saying she deserved the punch, that was over the line, but she clearly started it. Dude was just trying to get a drink and then she just started freaking out on him.
 
L

Loomba

Member
If he hit her open palm with the same amount of force, what would be the consensus? Justified? Still over the top?
 
B

bidguy

Banned
Starfish Hero said:
Why has "defend yourself" warped into meaning trial by combat? Even if she started it that doesn't mean he should just end her. 10 times out of 10 walking away from altercations at the bar is the best decision.
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not saying he was right this time around but i dont care if youre male female or an extraterrestrial being if you throw a punch you deserve one coming your way
 
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Shaanyboi

Banned
Jawbreaker said:
Oh, of course; I'm not saying all of her actions were rational. She just as easily could have told him she felt uncomfortable or that he was in her way without the raised fist. My point isn't to say she's a saint who was accosted by some random guy, but that I believe he used disproportionate force in a situation that didn't necessitate putting his hands on her without her even attempting to assault him in the first place.

If I'm at a bar and I'm bumping into a woman who then is taken aback, raises her fist and tells me to back off, I'm not going to escalate the situation or grab her arms. I'm not going to punch her in the face if she gets upset and knees/throws a punch at me because I'm trying to restrain her. Both would be disproportionate because at no point in time was I in any sort of danger. She's not pursuing me? I can walk away, tell a bouncer, go home, find another spot. She's not throwing a flurry of punches my way? Okay, what would landing a much stronger blow on her do? It's not going to do anything for my ego because quite frankly, violence is a last resort for me. It's not going to make matters better for me because now I face an assault charge.

There are times when it's necessary to throw punches and lay someone down, man or woman; I agree with that. I'm not above hitting a woman if she's trying to seriously hurt me. In this case, though? There are non-violent options. He wasn't contending with a capable fighter who's throwing multiple punches at him. He saw that the woman threw an arm and a knee, got heated, and punched her in the face. He didn't punch her out of necessity.
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Again, I don't think in that span of time if you're being attacked you can easily make that call. In his position, she's threatened him unprovoked, and then actively attacked him twice. It's like a half-second after her miss that he punches back. If someone takes swings at you, you aren't really taking the time to register if those hits have even landed or if they're gearing up to attack you again. You just react. I'm not saying it was a good reaction, I'm not saying it was a proportionate reaction. But if a clearly aggressive person comes at me from out of nowhere, and then starts attacking, I'm not thinking of size, sex, force, or anything. I'll probably end up retaliating with some kind of swing, almost subconsciously.

Hell, maybe this is a bad example, but like look at how people react to a fucking spider on their shoulder. Not everyone just winces and brushes it off. Some are deathly paralyzed. Some scream and smash it several times with the palm of their hand. Some people just react to that kind of unexpected situation.
 
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Miles Quaritch

Member
"Don't start none, won't be none."

It is a blanket statement, but it's also one that doesn't require any nuance in most situations.

Had the woman not lashed out, she wouldn't have been hit. I don't particularly care if she was hitting someone who can 'take it'...she shouldn't just randomly hit people and then expect them to take the high ground and not react.

She's the aggressor, she initiated the encounter because she couldn't control herelf, she should deal with the consequences of her actions.

Where's the personal responsibility? Shifting the focus onto the guy who was reacting to her aggressive behaviour has essentially let her off the hook from assaulting someone.
 
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THRILLH0

Banned
Miles Quaritch said:
"Don't start none, won't be none."

It is a blanket statement, but it's also one that doesn't require any nuance in most situations.
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Yeah it really does. Like I said would you be cool with the Rock belting the snot out of a 90 pound woman who slapped him?

What if the woman was in her 70's? Stll acceptable for a 20 year old athlete to break her jaw?
 
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