The guy in the video looks white, unless I'm mistaken.
He knocked another person out cold who was zero threat! Just walk away and get your drink elsewhere.
Video shows FSU QB throwing a punch at a woman at a bar
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The guy in the video looks white, unless I'm mistaken.
He knocked another person out cold who was zero threat! Just walk away and get your drink elsewhere.
Considering a guy a couple of pages ago likened women to babies, children, the elderly, and the handicapped, that line of thinking is prevalent.
More lies.
She didn't get knocked out.
In a dark, loud bar, how does he know this drunk girl isn't a threat?
She had a glass within arms reach, and was acting very wildly. How is that zero threat? Is it zero threat because she's a woman? Because she was drunk? Would you judge him for punching a weak, drunk man who acted this way?
Then the law needs to be handled with more nuance because it appears to enable people to beat on another person without fear of retaliation or consequences. In a case with a smaller person versus a larger person, it's suggesting they'd have to come at you with a broken bottle, bat, chair, knife or gun before you're allowed to defense yourself. That's going too far and slips into assuming these people are as threatening as children or the elderly.
He's black.
She kneed him.
She punched him.
Not a threat.
What?
He didn't event knock her out.
That's a distortion. I was giving intentionally extreme examples of physical power imbalance. But I do applaud your bravery, sir.
I just told you what I thought. I'm not comfortable training my brain to regard women in no way differently from men. Women are different from men. I hope this isn't interpreted as sexist, but I'm sure in this thread it will be. I generally consider myself a feminist. I just can't get my head into the place yours is.
I treat women with different consideration when it comes to physical contact because I'm aware of physiological differences, social differences, and my culture training. Women and men go through life experiencing the world quite differently from eachother. Just as an example, women are generally afraid of dark parking garages in ways most men aren't. Straight women have to live with the reality that people they're interested in as romantic suitors are also people they might need to physically fear. These things color your existence on earth, and I'm sensitive to that. I'm not saying these examples relate directly to the scenario in the OP, I'm just painting a picture of how women and men are different and things will never be totally gender fluid in the way you seem to think they are.
You can't really claim self defense on what if scenarios or thought crimes. Your response is supposed to be weighed against what has already occurred. She never touched the glass during the confrontation, therefore you can't claim she would/could have in defense. It has to be based on what did happen, not what could have maybe.
Yeah, I understand where you're coming from Jobbs. I get no joy from that video, and at first view it's pretty disturbing. But when legal issues come into play, there has to be equal protection, and we can't stereotype. We have to judge based on actions.
But this I don't understand at all...??
But this I don't understand at all...??
What she did doesn't look like battery to me. What he did does. In a court room, I think damages often matter quite a bit. She has a considerable injury and he has none whatsoever. The team who kicked him off obviously picked up on this as well, but hey, many in this thread are right and the jury will decide the poor man was fighting for his life and throw away the charges.
But she did kick his groin and throw a punch. And I think wild behavior can be taken into account. If someone is open carrying in the US responsibly, I would treat them very different than someone open carrying and exhibiting wild behavior. Even if they never shot the gun, I'm pretty sure I could claim self defense if I felt threatened by someone who had access to something that could be dangerous and was acting wildly.
Firelord Chargrilled
Banned
Let's sum up the thread so far
1. What the fuck he's a quarterback
2. That poor dainty girl she didn't do anything
3. Being called a racial slur and hit with a weak drunk punch doesn't count
4. If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a drunk chick at the bar
5. You never hit a women ever
6. Sexism
7. Sexism
8. Blah blah more sexism
9. He should have walked away
10. What a piece of shit
11. He dodges linebackers and shit but couldn't dodge drunk punches ?
12. He's a thug
13. Dehumanizing stare
14. I saw him sexually assault her
Did I miss anything ?
1. What the fuck he's a quarterback
2. That poor dainty girl she didn't do anything
3. Being called a racial slur and hit with a weak drunk punch doesn't count
4. If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a drunk chick at the bar
5. You never hit a women ever
6. Sexism
7. Sexism
8. Blah blah more sexism
9. He should have walked away
10. What a piece of shit
11. He dodges linebackers and shit but couldn't dodge drunk punches ?
12. He's a thug
13. Dehumanizing stare
14. I saw him sexually assault her
Did I miss anything ?
The team has to cave to social pressures...no problem there. The law shouldn't. People think of women as weak and fragile, and that's wrong, and sexist.
EDIT: And the way you're trying to turn this narrative is pretty shitty. This poor man fighting for his life...please, that's so freaking disingenuous! No, he was a drunk college kid who had another drunk college kid kick him in the balls and try to punch him, and he responded by punching. Your cultural sexism should have no bearing on the law.
Comments like these make me hope that if this goes to jury they are able to select level-headed individuals.
Dude Abides
Banned
I guess the Tallahassee PD believed her affidavit when she said she raised her right hand to defend herself.
No surprise there, we know how the Tallahassee PD hates FSU football players.
No surprise there, we know how the Tallahassee PD hates FSU football players.
If she was holding the glass while threatening him with it that's a different story. Otherwise you're going into 'what if' territory, and that shouldn't be allowed. You can claim 'what if' in a number of situations if that were the case.
You present it as 50/50. It wasn't. Compare injuries.. Considerable vs. none. The jury will likely notice this.
But this is a "what if" that is within arms reach, and is a 'what if' that revolves around a person who threatened, kicked, and punched someone. The fact of the matter is that it's reasonable to see someone acting wildly as a threat. It's also reasonable to punch someone who has punched and kicked you.
It's also reasonable to expect to walk away with a black eye, a swollen cheek, and a small cut near your eye if you kick and punch someone much stronger than you while drunk at a bar
No, the other person was not a threat whatsoever. I was wrong about the guy being white, so maybe I'm wrong about that too, but I don't see anything threatening enough to warrant a punch like that! (and the law agrees with me)
The law doesn't agree with you because you said so. I'm going to hope the law is smarter than you are, though, because your "points" are ridiculous and wrongheaded.
Charges could easily get dropped, and if not this would still have to go to trial.
And why does she have injuries? Because she got punched. Why did she get punched? Because she got drunk and acted stupid at a bar, and punched and kicked someone. She made the first move, her actions led to her getting (as far as we know) non-serious face injuries.
I don't see why she shouldn't be responsible for her actions.
EDIT: And I don't see how people aren't acknowledging this double standard, and agreeing that double standards probably shouldn't be a part of our laws.
EDIT 2: Also Jobbs, are you really comfortable saying that I should assume all females are as strong as "unusually small men", whatever that means? (Keep in mind this is after you compared them to children, the handicapped, and the elderly). How small is unusually small? Are there any other stereotypes we should try to get into law?
Miles Quaritch
Member
Maybe you're paying not attention?
I see plenty of threatening behaviour from the woman and virtually none from the guy until he's forced to take action.
Again we're going back to subjectivity. You may think his force was proportional and fine, and her injuries suffered were necessary for the situation. However, the prosecutor does not agree with you and believes it crossed into battery. Now a jury will use their own opinions and decide. And again, there seems to be a ton of faults with using 'what ifs' when it comes to legal action.
Speak for yourself pipsqueak. Me and the other Division 1 quarterbacks in this thread have a different perspective of threatening.
I just don't think she was behaving in a way that was very threatening. I keep thinking we must be looking at different videos somehow.
And if she did anything that deserved punishment, the extreme overreaction from the football guy kind of clouds the whole thing now. The jury might kind of feel as though she got a bit out of hand but got more than her share of punishment already.
Drunkenly flailing at someone and doing zero harm or damage isn't battery. Fucking up someone's face is battery.
I didn't, but if this is the type of discussion we'll have, then there's not much point continuing it.
I was making a snarky characterization of shit like this:
VanquishUK
Member
"Allegedly" kneed him in the groin? You can clearly see it.
she threatened him with her fist/kicked him apparently/shoved him and then punched him so something happened for him to defend himself or is that wrong?
I'm certainly not a legal expert but I was under the impression that self defense has to be proportionate. The guy was charged with battery... if the dudes thought his punch was clearly a proportionate response he would not have been charged, no?
Miles Quaritch said:
Sorry, at what point is he forced to do anything?
It crossed the line into battery the second the prosecution realized she has a vagina.
EDIT: That's kinda the whole point of what I'm talking about. This would not be a story, or a battery case, if that had been a man, even if he was of equal strength as that woman (which apparently I'm to assume is "very weak")
Miles Quaritch
Member
Yeah, such a tough guys that you wouldn't react when you're surrounded by a violent woman and her friends who are all grabbing at you while one is threatening to clock you one after she knees you in the balls.
Jog on, son.
At the point where he's no longer able to restrain her and she launches another unprovoked attack.
It's hard to see if it really connected or not. Perhaps that's where the "alleged" comes from. On my first time watching it, it didn't look like the kind of action that would have done any damage, but again, hard to say.
Are you feeling ok? People are not stupid for having a different opinion than you. Just discuss the topic and stop attacking.
thats implying that the enforcement of the law is always perfect
The law in FL disagrees with you.
Summary here (with citations):
http://www.husseinandwebber.com/crimes/violent-crimes/simple-battery/
Injuring someone is not required and self-defense is a valid defense against the charge.
What the woman did in the video is battery according to the letter of the law in Florida.
Miles Quaritch
Member
So you disagree that she was acting in a threatening manner?
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
I see them both fighting for a spot at the bar like two middle schoolers. They both physically hit each other.
Bolded replies.
Punchhing isn't the only reaction a human is capable of in this situation. He isn't some poor sap standing around waiting for a drink getting blind sided. Dude is crowding the bar and the girl to the extent that he has to literally grab and hold onto the bar to remain near to it. Could have simply taken a step back and avoided everything. Even after she turned around and started acting irrationally.
If he's going to invoke self defense that's fine. But self defense is suppose to be used as a means to get away and not to take revenge or as an excuse for rage hitting someone and causing more damage. Where he went wrong was an over use of force in his response to her. The prosecutor did not see his forceful punch and the resulting injuries as justified and decided it was battery. A lot of people in this thread disagree, and think his use of force was proportional/expected/deserved and the resulting injuries were fair. So maybe a jury will agree or disagree.
I was more referring to the line that he was "forced to take action". He wasn't. His response was extreme and absurd.
I also don't believe she was particularly threatening, no. I wouldn't have perceived her as a threat. If she was being that difficult I'd have just found somewhere else to stand.
Well, unfortunately we know all too well that the enforcement of the law is far from perfect. I'm not saying it's always perfect. I'm saying that with the video evidence in hand the battery charge is clearly warranted. Doesn't look like self defense to me, not to mention a level headed way to de-escalate the situation, but that's a different matter.
Miles Quaritch said:
With perfect hindsight and based on the video I don't think she was a threat at all.
And you wouldn't have lost your lucrative football career. What he should have done, what you would have done, what could have been done, is irrelevant. One person came at another person in a bar, and got punched.
You're accusing the prosecution of being sexist then? Perhaps? But where's your proof? A woman and a man getting into a fight, and hitting her hard enough to cause damage and getting charged for it doesn't automatically mean sexist.
Honestly, all these comments about how she's receiving special status because "she has a vagina" comes across as rather sexist on their own.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Yeah, we need coli's. I'm sure my detector is going off.
If anything, this shows how partial prosecutors are. Maybe we shouldn't force them to be elected. Maybe appointed by non-elected governing bodies?
Guy woke up and said, 'fuck it, I can't let us be seen as soft on FSU players for the 400th time.'
No, his charges don't equal sexism. Her lack of charges, on clear video, do. It would be a warning to women not to hit a guy, kick him in the balls, and call him nigger.
Dude Abides
Banned
Or maybe he just reviewed the PC affidavit and found it consistent with the video.
What she did was battery by the letter of the law. It is plain and clear in that regard.
Why has she not been charged?
I'm saying this thread is evidence that many people think we should think of, and treat, women differently. I'm accusing the prosecution and our culture of being sexist, yes.
What does it being a woman and a man have to do with it?
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