Video shows FSU QB throwing a punch at a woman at a bar
- Thread starter MIMIC
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Are you trying to argue that sexism is prevalent in many societies? Because you're right...Thank you for coming around.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
But she may just have been into you, so you could've probably gotten away with it.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Hitting her back is putting it quite mildly. He went Barry Bonds.
"Proportionality should be a guideline in war."
-Robert McNamara, discussing whether the 2 atomic bombs were necessary after Japan was burning from firebombing.
No, I'm claiming that no man who threw the first punch, kicked a man in the groin, and walked away with a blackeye has ever had a prosecutor behind him. I have not been able to find any cases like that. Can you?
I've freaking tried man. Again: How do you want me to prove that it hasn't happened?
EDIT: Don't think I want to continue having a discussion with an active MRA advocate though.
excelsiorlef
Member
Did you see the Ronda Rousey posts?
As if this woman was somehow just like her?
She's a jerk, he's a moron, he escalated far beyond what was necessary.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Do you consider yourself the persecuted, victimized male? Oppressive double-standards holding you back from achieving some lifelong goals?
Two points:
- Are there examples of a closed fist being admitted as a deadly weapon? Seems counterintuitive but I honestly have no idea.
- Using this definition, she also committed assault, as she did knowing and intentional conduct with him. Does he have a case? Is it the fact that there are visible damages that makes it a different situation?
Not trying to be facetious, just curious about where precedence stands.
Sure, I don't disagree. I'm just wondering if there is a legal case. What's the standard of damage that would need to be inflicted before it would be considered assault?
For example, if I push a guy and he punches me in the face and I break my nose, can I press charges? What about if I chip my tooth?
No. Stay at home dad to 2 girls (19 mo and 6 mo), husband to a doctor who could beat the fuck out of most males who are talking here. My life goals are achieved already. Portrying females as weak is something I'll never accept.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
dont start nothing, wont be nothing
Lovely Salsa
Banned
I just gave her a dirty look. Ah well
There's thousands if not hundreds of thousands of battery cases, and you expect me to find one specific detailed one to combat a narrow silly narrative of yours? The cases exist, that's why the law exists! You're basically arguing that you won't believe a man will be charged for over use of force in self defense unless it's the exact same injuries and circumstances. It's obtuse.
LOL you're such a joke. I NEVER called you an MRA advocate, I said one of your arguments sounded like one. What is your problem?
Yes, many examples. Seriously 3 seconds of google man."The second type of deadly weapon includes any other object or tool that, when used in a particular way, can cause severe injury or death. Automobiles, canes, metal folding chairs, large planks of wood, pocketknives, and countless other items can be considered deadly weapons if they are used to maim or kill someone. Even the human body itself can be legally considered a deadly weapon if an attacker uses his hands, feet, or other body parts to assault a victim."
You haven't answered my question. I've heard of one case of a person kicking someone in the groin, punching them, and then walking away with a black eye and pressing charges. It's this one.
How can I prove it? You literally want me to post every single bar scrum I can find from every states database?
My problem is that you put that label on me. Then said you were going to leave. And now you're back doing the same thing.
I'm expecting you to find anything even close involving a man and a man where the person swung/kicked first, then successfully sued for disproportionate force, despite only suffering a black eye.
I googled and saw that quote on a lawyer's site.
I also found this:
http://www.justanswer.com/military-...s-hands-feet-knees-legs-and-or.html#re.v/174/
If the Supreme Court struck something down, it doesn't seem like it would be a felony charge. I'm just wondering what the real law is as practiced.
excelsiorlef
Member
What a fucking hero.
Jesus that's fucked.
He literally could have killed her the way he was throwing down.
Also apparently prior to the video he threw her down some stairs. So he started the violence
As has been explained to you multiple times, you can prove it by citing any analysis, precedent, essay, etc suggesting proportionality is not considered in such cases. Literally anything beyond you going "it just doesn't! that be the law of the streets!"
This is ridiculous. Your arguments are borderline incoherent first of all. Secondly, you're arguing in circles with people, and instead of accepting a logical answer you demand narrower and narrower criteria and double down on your stubbornness. Keep spinning those wheels, buddy.
Ok. Here's my proof. I posted something that thousands of people are reading, many of which are extremely smart, and have studied law, have much more knowledge of where to search and how to search to find such things. No one has given me anything to even make me start thinking I'm incorrect. There's no reason too...it's asinine to think that a man would be charged for punching another man after being swung at and kicked in the groin.
What's your proof? Oh, here's the closet link I could find, despite us all knowing that bar brawls resulting in a black eye are a dime a dozen...this is all i found: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...olonoscopy-by-cops-wins-16-million-settlement
Your insults and lack of any links, proof, or really anything other than admitting double standards exist, but apparently not here, but without telling me why...Show me anything where a black eye was used to convict someone after being attacked of disprportionate force.
Just reverse the situation, and see how it plays out, and tell me there is no double standard. People still talking about gender with proportional force, without talking about any way to measure potential, or actual, force. There is exactly one case like this, and it's here.
You're a goddamn train wreck, do you know that?
Sure? Care to expand on that?
And I know there are people on GAF who can do better. It's why I put the freaking call out. I was searching for man on man violence where the victim of abuse won a court case.
You guys think I care about being right? I care about my daughters, and my wife, not being treated differently, and being held responsible for their actions.
Finding lots of court case appeals on how a closed fist is not a "deadly weapon".
http://www.leagle.com/decision/19922141831P2d1310_12114.xml/PEOPLE v. ROSS
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/03/18/08-50175.pdf
It looks like a minority of states have used it for the human body.
If the damage is big enough he could still be charged with aggravated assault. Interesting.
http://www.leagle.com/decision/19922141831P2d1310_12114.xml/PEOPLE v. ROSS
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2010/03/18/08-50175.pdf
It looks like a minority of states have used it for the human body.
If the damage is big enough he could still be charged with aggravated assault. Interesting.
IchigoSharingan
Member
Whatever good faith you had going into this thread has all but withered and become a bullying burgeon of buffoonery.
You came into this thread with a laughably safe angle (legally the proportionality of the male's actions exceed reasonable self defense protocol [well no fucking shit, sherlock]) and have spent the rest of the thread sniping on the same users. Good show, faux lawyer.
Nicktals, get off this thread. I don't exactly agree with you but you are being dogpiled and it is getting out of whack and clearly it is stressing you unnecessarily. Kudos on your 2 loved ones.
Poor reasoning and a fundamental ignorance regarding the law are colliding in excruciating slow motion. It was almost worth stopping earlier on, but at this point there is so much mangled destruction that the task of straightening it all out is just too overwhelming, so I'm thinking it might be best to just sit back and watch instead.
Oh no no no, you need to find the EXACT same scenario and injuries, otherwise you're just wrong. Those other cases don't matter.
If it were planned, and resulted in death, fists tried as that, but it's largely unnecessary, I think..but yeah, I learned a bit looking into that too.
Are you intentionally being disingenuous and misrepresenting the situation again?
I want to be wrong. I want to find a situation where the injury was a black eye, and the person won the lawsuit despite initiating. I'm freaking trying but I just don't know how to go about finding it man.
Again, very recently I said anything close. Anything where the case was brought up with injury of a black eye maybe? is that broad enough? anything even close? It does not have to be exact. At all. Anything close.
Ok. I don't think my reasoning is very poor. Care to go into more detail on that? I've gotta give the youngest a bottle and try to get some sleep, but I'll be happy to respond tomorrow morning.
I don't know why you guys are attacking me instead of helping me look. With the huge sample size of male on male bar fights there has to be an example that proves me wrong....And if we can't find anything, is anyone even willing to acknowledge the possibility that there's a double standard??
I just don't know how to explain it any clearer to you. That's the law, that's the way it's written and that's why he was charged. If you don't agree, that's fine. Proportionality can be subjective. Unfortunately for the QB, the prosecutor saw his actions as unreasonable force and will bring it to a jury to make the final call.
You believe this is only happening because sexism and not because he actually did unproportional damage to the woman's face. That's fine if you believe that, but neither the lawyer nor the football player have claimed misconduct or bias on the part of the prosecutor. You're now shouting into the wind about sexism where none has been found or brought up by the parties involved. Yet you insist that it's there because no one has delivered to you a case with the exact minutia to match it? Does this not seem unreasonable to you?
edit nm, misread
Edit for below: ?
You've been swinging discussion back and forth like a maniac through this thread. A train without tracks, literally. If you can't handle the discussion you yourself are propelling forward, then yes, please take a break (and I won't be upset if you return).
Thanks man. Fucking balling over here trying to slow my heart rate down enough to sleep.
And dude whose name started with a P, i assume youve responded, but I won't be refreshing GAF until I figure out how to block you.
EDIT: 3 loved ones =) my wife is the only thing that has ever made me reevaluate my stance on miracles.
Vermillion
Banned
.
Aw, you edited. You were spot on though. It's for the best.
And now I'm curious.
you've been arguing an entire day about the premise of generalizing, as if everyone is an idiot, and youre the only one that understands. either youre trolling, or very much barking up the wrong tree. every time you've been going through the identical argument..every time its a pattern. then you're off to the next.
you think every single person spending their time speaking to you is unfamiliar with the concept? this isnt women's suffraging. this is a man punching a person that wasnt a threat equal to the blow.
it's asinine to honestly believe that people who generally don't find women threatening, equal to a man, are being sexist. and that applies to all views on women.
and then theres your court case..
the court case....
if your children are raised like you, they are going to make a lot of friends being enthusiastically pedantic. id be more worried about that. than the monster created by people not finding women threatening?
edit: well it seems youre not trolling, but if your heart is racing over this issue, I don't know what else to say.
this specific instance doesnt seem to be the arena for the battle of sexism. but, ive been wrong many times in my life.
this isnt dog piling, this is arguing one issue with something else in mind. and its confusing, as I know im not a sexist pig, yet... here I am. posting again...
ugh. its midnight. till tomorrow.
Nah man, the reasonable person would be put in the same situation.
So it would become a reasonable (college?) football player in a bar.
And the intoxication would work in favor or against both parties.
The justification I would use is what I said, Inticement, she started it and started the violence. Hence him rekking her face. But yeah I don't think it would hold up since the violence used by the football player is disproportional, waaaaay disproportional.
CarpeDeezNutz
Member
How many CSI enhance gifs are in here?
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Yes.
Both of you could have decided to go for a sexual assault charge or just had fun with it.
But if you black and she aint well, you gonna get that sexual assault charge solo.
Gravy Boat
Member
I don't get how anyone can say the girl didn't instigate it, it's very clear she initiated the whole confrontation. He shouldn't have smacked her as hard as he did, but saying that it's tough to tell from a video how hard he actually hit her. She was still standing I guess, so it's not as if he went to town on her, and she didn't have any injuries. The way her head jerks makes it look like there's some force behind it, but that could have been more a result of her not expecting it than anything else.
If she was giving off racial abuse, and did knee him (which it looks like she did) all because he bumped into her in a crowded bar, then the guys reaction (whilst not entirely justifiable) is sort of understandable, He didn't know whether or not she was going to keep hitting him, so he jabbed her and put an end to the situation. He could have walked away, but again, she may have kept on at him. It's easy to sit her on the internet and say that you'd just shrug it off and leave the situation, but that's not generally how most people act in the heat of the moment.
I'm not trying to defend him, what he did was still wrong to an extent, but I do think he's more of a victim than her in this situation, saying as how both parties were unharmed, yet the instigator is getting away while the defender is having charges pressed against him. Situations like this could be avoided if everyone just stopped being such assholes to other people and didn't resort to violence at the first sign of disagreement.
If she was giving off racial abuse, and did knee him (which it looks like she did) all because he bumped into her in a crowded bar, then the guys reaction (whilst not entirely justifiable) is sort of understandable, He didn't know whether or not she was going to keep hitting him, so he jabbed her and put an end to the situation. He could have walked away, but again, she may have kept on at him. It's easy to sit her on the internet and say that you'd just shrug it off and leave the situation, but that's not generally how most people act in the heat of the moment.
I'm not trying to defend him, what he did was still wrong to an extent, but I do think he's more of a victim than her in this situation, saying as how both parties were unharmed, yet the instigator is getting away while the defender is having charges pressed against him. Situations like this could be avoided if everyone just stopped being such assholes to other people and didn't resort to violence at the first sign of disagreement.
Prime crotch
Banned
should have mushed her, instead of KO
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
This is a scumbag and ugh, it makes my blood boil. Clearly he did something to her first which caused her to react really badly to it so there is a clear back story here, but this is where I agree that the size difference does add a ton of differences between the force one can commit when they are biologically bigger than the other. She clearly did no sort of damage to him to get knocked back like that, especially when he was the aggressor from the get go. Disgusting and I hope she sues his ass and gets him thrown in jail.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
Ding ding ding. Although I think they said she had a bruised eye and a cut.
Bottom line is that if he has to get in trouble, then she should as well for initiating the whole thing.
He won't get thrown in jail. He did get fired though.
It was determined he was acting in self-defense.
excelsiorlef
Member
He did. He threw her down some stairs apparently
Bottom line is the law shouldn't have allowances for chivalry, double standards or discriminate between a man and woman especially in assault cases. When I've seen cops get off easy, especially when they react to situations that were there wasn't even anything close to this level of provocation by claiming they feared for their lives. If this guy has a half decent lawyer, he should be acquitted of all charges or it sets a dangerous precedent where women are free to throw feeble punches or kick us in the groin and our only options should be flee or deescalate in some other manner, God help you if you throw a punch back, feeble or strong, your only option if you can't flee is to Jay-Z it. A fight response should/will never be viable.
Could he have handled the scenario better, yes. Did he have the upper-hand, yes. Is his punch capable of doing more damage, very likely. But this is not what I'm arguing. I just want men and women afforded the same protections that we put into our laws and we don't turn blind eyes because in goes against our moral compasses. We shouldn't hit women, and women shouldn't hit (or try and miss) men either.
Could he have handled the scenario better, yes. Did he have the upper-hand, yes. Is his punch capable of doing more damage, very likely. But this is not what I'm arguing. I just want men and women afforded the same protections that we put into our laws and we don't turn blind eyes because in goes against our moral compasses. We shouldn't hit women, and women shouldn't hit (or try and miss) men either.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
He put his hand on her for throwing stuff around the store. He threw her down a flight of stairs instead of contacting the police to deal with her erratic behavior.
Of course she got angry and came back in to redeem herself for her a disgusting display of unprofessionalism by her manager. Then who thought her weak slap, that sounded like it hurt because it is a slap, decided that a full throttle one two punch was needed to "defemd" himself. She's 5'2 and could barely even touch his face much less threaten his life.
I would make him pay, screw getting fired.
Panera would have a lawsuit on there hands especially since she has witnesses. Oh hells no.
Unless the witnesses were willing to testify otherwise, unfortunately nothing will happen to him, and the only video they have is of her assaulting him first, and him defending himself.
If that's all they have to go off of, he could even sue *her* for getting him fired and claim lost wages, emotional duress, etc
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