Ant-Man |OT| Is It Too Late To Change The Name?

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StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
It's silly to pick on the movie for what could have been rather than what it is.

Is it actually silly?

Edgar Wright has delivered 4 amazing action-comedy movies and one of the funniest TV shows of all time.

He was pretty unceremoniously dropped in favor of the director of the Break Up and Yes Man.

That's not to say that this won't wind up being a good movie, but there is a zero percent chance that Edgar Wright wouldn't have delivered a better movie. Scott Pilgrim's budget was roughly half of ant-mans. We were robbed of a very high budget Edgar Wright movie that probably would have been something very special. So much show that Wheadon said so.

It's also a sign of Kevin Feige's control over the Marvel franchise, and probably speaks to why at 10 movies in I'm starting to feel a very sameyness to all of them (save IM3, which was probably bc Downey Jr is the only person more powerful than Feige).

If the Hollywood reporter story is true and Feige was rewriting the script without the director/writers input 2 weeks prior to shooting beginning, it's a disappointing sign of stifling creativity in favor of making sure this ties in exactly with the mission statement.

You can compare it to his other work, but that's equally silly.

It's an action comedy. It is a movie directly in the wheelhouse of every movie Wright has ever made. It's directly comparable to his past works.

Marvel pulled one of my favorite directors off of a project after 7 years of development in order to exert more control over the movie. Feige said the only reason Ant Man is a movie is because of Wright.

Right up until Feige wanted a script re-write weeks before shooting.

I'll likely see the movie at some point, but it will always be a disappointment no matter how watchable the end product is.
 

Blader

Member
Some of the jokes are so obviously Wright which is why I asked if he did storyboarding for the film. We know he lifted at least one scene straight from Wright's work.

There's nothing lifted, it's Marvel's footage. And given how involved Marvel is in the pre-viz work anyway -- a lot of which is among the earliest things done in production -- I'd be extremely surprised if Wright was single-handedly responsible for any of the storyboards.

He also has three credits on the film, it's not like they stole his shit and then showed him the door.
 

Kalentan

Member
Just got back from seeing it an hour ago.

Damn.

I would put this in my top 5 MCU films.

Got a poster from the AMC theater! :D

xg1b.png
 

Blader

Member
On a better note, how fucking good was that CGI for
young Michael Douglas in the prologue flashback
?! I can't wait to see the production vid, that's some potentially game-changing work, completely avoids any of the uncanny valley shit you get with, say, Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
On a better note, how fucking good was that CGI for
young Michael Douglas in the prologue flashback
?! I can't wait to see the production vid, that's some potentially game-changing work, completely avoids any of the uncanny valley shit you get with, say, Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy.

If I didn't know who
Michael Douglas
was, I would've never known that was CGI.
 

Jarmel

Banned
There's nothing lifted, it's Marvel's footage. And given how involved Marvel is in the pre-viz work anyway -- a lot of which is among the earliest things done in production -- I'd be extremely surprised if Wright was single-handedly responsible for any of the storyboards.

He also has three credits on the film, it's not like they stole his shit and then showed him the door.

Considering how early it was shown and how much freedom Wright initially had, I wouldn't be surprised if it was largely if not all his stuff (at least for that particular scene).

The way some of the edits are done for jokes are such a Wright trademark in how they're handled and then you have these clunky scenes where there is cut from face to face.

On a better note, how fucking good was that CGI for
young Michael Douglas in the prologue flashback
?! I can't wait to see the production vid, that's some potentially game-changing work, completely avoids any of the uncanny valley shit you get with, say, Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy.

I thought it was dead obvious it was CGI, especially as upper parts of the face look frozen at times. He looked off compared to some of the other actors in the scene.
 
Is it actually silly?

Edgar Wright has delivered 4 amazing action-comedy movies and one of the funniest TV shows of all time.

He was pretty unceremoniously dropped in favor of the director of the Break Up and Yes Man.

That's not to say that this won't wind up being a good movie, but there is a zero percent chance that Edgar Wright wouldn't have delivered a better movie. Scott Pilgrim's budget was roughly half of ant-mans. We were robbed of a very high budget Edgar Wright movie that probably would have been something very special. So much show that Wheadon said so.

It's also a sign of Kevin Feige's control over the Marvel franchise, and probably speaks to why at 10 movies in I'm starting to feel a very sameyness to all of them (save IM3, which was probably bc Downey Jr is the only person more powerful than Feige).

If the Hollywood reporter story is true and Feige was rewriting the script without the director/writers input 2 weeks prior to shooting beginning, it's a disappointing sign of stifling creativity in favor of making sure this ties in exactly with the mission statement.



It's an action comedy. It is a movie directly in the wheelhouse of every movie Wright has ever made. It's directly comparable to his past works.

Marvel pulled one of my favorite directors off of a project after 7 years of development in order to exert more control over the movie. Feige said the only reason Ant Man is a movie is because of Wright.

Right up until Feige wanted a script re-write weeks before shooting.

I'll likely see the movie at some point, but it will always be a disappointment no matter how watchable the end product is.

Maybe it's not silly to compare it. That's fine. I'm as big a Wright fan as there is, even though I didn't love Scott Pilgrim. The Cornetto Trilogy are some of my favourite films ever. I would have loved to see his take on Marvel

I guess I just accepted that we won't ever get the Wright edition and moved on. I don't really see the point in constantly saying "what if" but I certainly can understand and appreciate why some may find the end product disappointing compared to the vision they have in their head of what it could have been.

Tbat's certainly a discussion that has a place I guess and it was dumb of me to try and call people out for making it.
 

Jarmel

Banned
It's also a sign of Kevin Feige's control over the Marvel franchise, and probably speaks to why at 10 movies in I'm starting to feel a very sameyness to all of them (save IM3, which was probably bc Downey Jr is the only person more powerful than Feige).

Got some good news and bad news. Parts of it do feel 'samey' and those are the slow parts. The action sequences, and I don't always mean fighting, do feel different partly due to the scale, from the shrinking, but the direction can't always maintain that quality level. It's inconsistent but if you wanted something at least a bit different out of the MCU, this slightly scratches that itch. Which is probably why I'm frustrated despite it turning out good.
 
Stooge- Bring it on was one of the best cheerleader comedies of all time. Let's not go crowning Wright's hypothetical Ant-Man just yet.
 
Wow. I am so underwhelmed and disappointed.

Messy, rushed, and a plain boring first hour, this was Iron Man 2 levels of mediocre.

For fuck's sake, that Falcon bit couldn't have been more of a commercial unless they stopped, looked at the camera, winked and said "Civil War, folks!"

And please, don't accuse me of being a DC fanboy because of my avatar. I've read comics since I was 4 and I am a diehard fan of both universes and the MCU. I'm just really let down here.

Sorely missed Edgar Wright's influence.
Reed wasn't up to snuff for this project and the godawful pacing shows it.
 

Evo X

Member
About to watch it in IMAX 3D with my nephew. Got that sweet poster to add to my home theater room.

Strong thunderstorm going on outside. Hope the power doesn't go out!
 

Kajiba

Member
Just got back from seeing it an hour ago.

Damn.

I would put this in my top 5 MCU films.

Got a poster from the AMC theater! :D

xg1b.png

Got the same poster. Got it after the movie was done though. They didn't have it out yet when it was time to see the movie.
 
On a better note, how fucking good was that CGI for
young Michael Douglas in the prologue flashback
?! I can't wait to see the production vid, that's some potentially game-changing work, completely avoids any of the uncanny valley shit you get with, say, Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy.
Yo!!!
That really was something that freaked me out. I grew up watching that man, and holy crap..that was him back then.

Then again, they made Evans the most malnourished looking thing you could image way back when..about the only redeeming part of that movie for me, personally.
 

Dalek

Member
Wow. I am so underwhelmed and disappointed.

Messy, rushed, and a plain boring first hour, this was Iron Man 2 levels of mediocre.

For fuck's sake, that Falcon bit couldn't have been more of a commercial unless they stopped, looked at the camera, winked and said "Civil War, folks!"

And please, don't accuse me of being a DC fanboy because of my avatar. I've read comics since I was 4 and I am a diehard fan of both universes and the MCU. I'm just really let down here.

Sorely missed Edgar Wright's influence.
Reed wasn't up to snuff for this project and the godawful pacing shows it.

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MaulerX

Member
Just got back from the theatre with the wife and kids..... Holy crap this movie was so much fun! Honestly one of my top Marvel movies to date. Really fucking good.
 

Maddness

Member
Just got back from seeing it. I thought it was the most fun movie Marvel's made in quite a while. It had a great mix of action/comedy and I thought it was a well paced film. I'd highly recommend seeing it no matter who the director is.
 

Blader

Member
For fuck's sake, that Falcon bit couldn't have been more of a commercial unless they stopped, looked at the camera, winked and said "Civil War, folks!"

Funny thing is, it was Rudd and McKay's idea, not Marvel's. They wanted to include him after
watching Winter Soldier
 
Funny thing is, it was Rudd and McKay's idea, not Marvel's. They wanted to include him after
watching Winter Soldier
Its supposed to help move along Hope's character arc though (which was also something Rudd/McKay added in) so I really didn't see much of a problem with it. And it got a great reaction from the audience so evidently many people liked it too.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Its supposed to help move along Hope's character arc though (which was also something Rudd/McKay added in) so I really didn't see much of a problem with it. And it got a great reaction from the audience so evidently many people liked it too.

Hope's stuff is clunky as fuck. That's easily the worst part of the script for a number of reasons, one being that it treads similar ground as the villain and it's resolved in such a hamfisted way.
 
Just got out and will write more detailed thoughts later but this may be my favorite superhero movie ever and easily in my top ten favorite movies of all time.
Looking at my avatar and username I am totally biased but I think I really mean it.
 

Gartooth

Member
I saw it tonight, and generally thought it was a decent movie that was better than the expectations I had going in. This isn't a groundbreaking MCU movie by any means, and is a bit formulaic at times. Just some first thoughts:

Pros:

+ Performances were pretty good, with Rudd and Pena being the standouts.
+ The size-changing is really fun and gets especially crazy near the end. Helps make the setpieces pretty memorable.
+ Had some good laughs throughout.
+ I thought the dynamic between the three main characters was handled well.

Cons:

- Villain is one-note. (duh)
- I thought it had generally poor pacing.
- The film is talked about as a heist film, but the actual heist was a bit of a letdown for me. What comes after makes up for it though.
 
Really? Huh. What'dya know.

Still felt incredibly out of place though :/

Messy and rushed? Would you mind elaborating on that a bit? I think it's a fair criticism, but that's pretty vague.

Boring first hour? que?! Thats more than half the movie. Are you not a fan of Paul Rudd/ did you not find it funny? The first scene where Lang puts on the suit didn't do it for you?
 
Hope's stuff is clunky as fuck. That's easily the worst part of the script for a number of reasons, one being that it treads similar ground as the villain and it's resolved in such a hamfisted way.
That's the point though. The whole thing is about the parallel between fathers/daughters and teachers/mentors as far as the Hank/Hope/Cross/Scott/Cassie pentagon is concerned. Like I said, I think it fits the movie's theme well.
 

Jarmel

Banned
That's the point though. The whole thing is about the parallel between fathers/daughters and teachers/mentors as far as the Hank/Hope/Cross/Scott/Cassie pentagon is concerned. Like I said, I think it fits the movie's theme well.

Problem is when you're already beating that horse on two separate fronts. It's repeating itself. Not to mention again it's handled very clumsily in execution.
 
I thought it was great! Really funny and the use of the shrinking was cool. I guess if you have preconceived notions about it you'll find something to hate but I thought it was right up there with Iron Man 1 and Guardians.
 

Gartooth

Member
This would've been completely unnecessary to the plot, but I would've loved to have seen more
stuff from Hank and Janet as superheroes during the Cold War.
 
Wow. I am so underwhelmed and disappointed.

Messy, rushed, and a plain boring first hour, this was Iron Man 2 levels of mediocre.

For fuck's sake, that Falcon bit couldn't have been more of a commercial unless they stopped, looked at the camera, winked and said "Civil War, folks!"

And please, don't accuse me of being a DC fanboy because of my avatar. I've read comics since I was 4 and I am a diehard fan of both universes and the MCU. I'm just really let down here.

Sorely missed Edgar Wright's influence.
Reed wasn't up to snuff for this project and the godawful pacing shows it.

Sure pal

ph3TG5a.gif


If I get a tag about hating Marvel or something along those lines, I'm going to have an internal meltdown, lol

You'll take it and love it.
 
Messy and rushed? Would you mind elaborating on that a bit? I think it's a fair criticism, but that's pretty vague.

Boring first hour? que?! Thats more than half the movie. Are you not a fan of Paul Rudd/ did you not find it funny? The first scene where Lang puts on the suit didn't do it for you?

Well, for an easy example, villain development. This guy had absolutely no build-up, no high stakes, nothing. He just gets in the suit and off we go.

The montage of learning to control the ants and planning the heist, etc, was edited all over the place.

The romance? Forget about it. A few casual glances isn't enough to justify a relationship forming.

And while the first transformation was interesting, everything else was a crawl. It all felt jumbled and the usual Rudd humor (which I AM a fan of his) and Marvel wit was all a miss for me, nothing struck like it should have and I barely laughed. Michael Pena is the only one who got some laughs out of me.

I don't know, the whole film didn't have a narrative flow or a sense of cohesion, it just fell flat for me.

Glad you and many others enjoyed it though!
 

ghostmind

Member
Just got back - this movie was so much better than I was expecting. Top 5 Marvel movie for me, and my son says he liked it better than Age of Ultron.
 

Quick

Banned
Just got back, I loved it. Michael Pena is an absolute standout for me. His bits were just hilarious. TI looked like he was having some fun with the role, too.

It was honestly delightful seeing Michael Douglas take on a role that's pretty different than what I'm used to from him.

I've got a couple of issues with the movie, but I'll save that for the spoiler thread.
 
Hope's stuff is clunky as fuck. That's easily the worst part of the script for a number of reasons, one being that it treads similar ground as the villain and it's resolved in such a hamfisted way.

I agree with this. I thought the movie was a blast, but the 2 worst parts of the movie were Hope's story and David Dastmalchian's character. I thought Lily did a great job in the role, but the whole
"you're a badass woman and a million times more qualified for this job to save the world, but I won't let you do this so I can protect you and instead I'm going to hand it off to this guy,"
was such a disservice to her and her character. An Dastmalchian's character was just a walking non-funny
stereotype.

Despite those flaws, still found the movie hilarious and charming–tied for my 3rd favorite MCU movie with GotG, and behind Winter Soldier and Iron Man. I would also put Daredevil and Agent Carter ahead of it. Don't know why Agent Carter doesn't get more love. The show is fantastic, but that is for a different discussion.

Well, for an easy example, villain development. This guy had absolutely no build-up, no high stakes, nothing. He just gets in the suit and off we go.

The montage of learning to control the ants and planning the heist, etc, was edited all over the place.

The romance? Forget about it. A few casual glances isn't enough to justify a relationship forming.

And while the first transformation was interesting, everything else was a crawl. It all felt jumbled and the usual Rudd humor (which I AM a fan of his) and Marvel wit was all a miss for me, nothing struck like it should have and I barely laughed. Michael Pena is the only one who got some laughs out of me.

I don't know, the whole film didn't have a narrative flow or a sense of cohesion, it just fell flat for me.

Glad you and many others enjoyed it though!

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. I can understand your disappointment with the above. I guess for me it didn't detract from my enjoyment substantially. I thought the
romance was just a goofy throw-in for a laugh. The joke landed for me, but I didn't really see it as them planting seeds for an ongoing romance.
 
I just got back from it. I'm about to head into the shower, so I'll write more detailed thoughts later. But for first impressions? I really enjoyed it. Probably among my favorites to come out of the MCU.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
I saw the 7pm showing. I enjoyed Ant-Man a lot, & my showing was surprisingly packed. My detailed impressions are coming soon.
 
This is the best movie Peyton Reed has made since Bring It On.

I definitely felt like the marks of Wright were all over certain parts, but otherwise, this felt like its own thing, and I liked how much it differed from the other recent Marvel movies. I was worried that dropping Wright was going to be about stripping personality from the film so that it was tonally similar to the others, but that's not the case.

It's not perfect, and I felt like Evangeline Lily was underused (or maybe her character was just boring), but the rest of the cast, including the villains, were great.
 
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