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[SkylineRKR]

Shotgun, HC nerf isn't so bad. And nerf IB (I don't really care) and BH isn't bad either, though pulling ammo from inventory is sort of too much. It means that white nail only defeats reloads.

Shotties needed a PvE buff, but they can probably kill way too fast in PvE right now. There is zero reason to use a Fusion.

But nerfing Gjallarhorn is something I didn't hope for. I agree that its way too powerful compared to other options, but I'd rather see huge buffs to other heavies in PvE. They're Heavies and they will take up your exotic slot. Even after the nerf, with reduced wolfpack, I think Horn will still out DPS Truth, Dragons Breath and HMG. Nothing will change except that bullet sponges will take longer to kill.

There is still no reason to pick anything over Horn, or to not find a Gjallarhorn squad. I would opt for a Truth PvE buff instead, that would do about as much damage but then to Void.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

I feel like maybe with Ghorn they should have reduced the number of Wolfpacks instead of the damage. With this nerf they can/will track to adds and do some damage but not kill, whereas simply reducing the number means it might track to some adds and will most likely kill.

The damage would essentially be the same between the approaches, but the usefulness would be maintained for the most part.

Black Hammer... ehhhhhhhh I'll miss smacking Atheon with it endlessly, but I could see it coming. I would say maybe it should take a single round from the inventory rather than all 3 that it uses, but either way, it's kind of making it less useful.

Ice Breaker is lol. I can count on one hand how many times I've used it lately compared to Lord of Wolves, Invective, Found Verdict, Swordbreaker or, well, Black Hammer.

As a HC user, I actually applaud the changes being made. In fact, recently discussing with coworkers, the Thorn nerfs combined with the overall HC nerfs are almost exactly what we felt would be fair. It would still have its use but it wouldn't be the ridiculous beast it is now. They're giving HCs a wider divide on range between SRs like they should have.

Overall, I'm cool with the changes.

 

[Deku Tree]

That's been their M.O. since the beginning. Any time weapons proved to be "too" useful in their mind, they'd nerf them. Even in the face of significant bugs, legitimate complaints about issues in the raids, it was more of a priority to them to nerf weapons. They basically turned auto rifles into the equivalent of rapid fire Nerf dart launchers based on a lot of knee-jerk reactions about SUROS and overall time to kill. They still haven't found a good place for Pulse Rifles as most (but not all) of them are stuck between being more useful than a AR but less powerful and accurate than a Scout Rifle.

The nerfs based on Thorn though are, in my opinion, justified. Since Iron Banner and Trials became a way to reach max light level, the overuse of Thorn has been heightened. I knew people who were playing solely because they wanted to get the Thorn bounty, all so they could use it in PVP. As others have said, if Thorn accounted for over 25% of the last Iron Banner and it's locked behind a grindy bounty chain, imagine how bad it would be if it were easily obtainable. It would easily become a "required" weapon.

The perception of one weapon being required is also why I (mostly) support the Ghorn nerf. A few months into TDB, my regular raiding group broke apart leaving myself and two friends searching for a new crew. Every time we'd hit up LFG, we'd get asked if we had Ghorn. The minute I said no, I was passed over for a spot. It became a crutch. I'm not sure how I feel about the Icebreaker nerf but I can say it, also, had become a crutch and I'm just as guilty as others of relying on it too much.. but 18 seconds? Holy hell.

That said, Bungie has pulled the nerf/buff/nerf thing more in the last 10 months than most MMOs do in the same time. It certainly is frustrating.

Thing is if they wanted to fix the DestinyLFG GHorn requirement problem they could have done it any week they wanted by allowing Xur to sell GHorn but they didn't do that for other reasons... because they want players to need something to chase to keep playing IMO... from that point of view their explanation is disingenuous at best because they created the LFG problem by putting the Horn in the game and by preventing Xur from selling it.

 

[wesleyshark]

So freaking stoked about the Necrochasm buff. I love using that gun in arc burns, but it stays in the vault at all other times. Sounds like it'll be somewhat useful now!

Also- loving the nerfs to snipers to handcannons. It was long overdue.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

a nerf to the Blink Jump ability is also coming. I foresee much more salt in the future

Bungie trying to kill their own game. Smh. All this balance bullshit is part the reason I like solo games better.

 

[wesleyshark]

Wait- I missed the part about a blink nerf. This is awesome.

 

[UnluckyKate]

I dont care that much about Gjallanerf but I'm very VERY pissed about Icebreaker and Blackhammer nerds.

Icebreaker is nerfed by 37,5% of it's dps and Blackhammer is rendered near to useless. It's a shame because these guns were complentary and very useful in very specific situations : they weren't overpowered IMO.

Glad to see thorn nerf in pvp, curious about the pve buff

 

[Iceman829]

fixed!

lol. yes it does sound cool

I don't think any Exotic is supposed to replace another. They try to add fun new things, that's all. Lord of Wolves, Queen's Bow, No Land Beyond aren't there to make anything else obsolete. They're there to add something new which lets you change up your play style.

Exotics are each unique and have perks they don't share with anything else. 4th Horseman isn't meant to be seen as better or worse than Invectice, nor is Plan C vs. Pocket Infinity a competition, nor is Necrochasm supposed to be "better" than Suros (which it actually is, TTK is significantly lower).

I don't think they've failed in making vanilla Exotics obsolete because I don't think it's something they've even tried to do. I'm happy our Exotic collection can keep growing with fun additions while the old stuff holds its place.

And with TTK adding more weapons than Destiny launched with in the first place, the potential for interesting additions is enormous.

I'll be honest I should've flushed out more of what I was thinking, but I was getting ready for work and just typed a few things out. Now that I can I wanted to finish writing, but it will probably take me an hour or more to write and I don't feel like getting frustrated over this game anymore. My only hope is they add better loot for you guys and stop with nerfing guns based on IB usage. I got my 100% for the game this week. The only thing I did in the past month besides this weeks raid was IB. I lost interest in this game a long time ago. When my buddies first quit I hung around and would just solo all the stuff. Then I met some cool people from dgaf on xbox. I probably wouldn't have kept playing if it wasn't for them. Sorry for wasting your time ocean. I hope you guys enjoy the expansion.

 

[hiryu]

TLW seems the worst of the bunch. The only thing that needed to be addressed was the 111 bug.

Everything else from what I've read seems fine.

Just got to wait and see now.

No it was not fine. You can snipe with it from across the map. Range needs nerfed too. Believe me it is my favorite PvP gun and it needs toned down.

 

[Renta]

Aww leave the shotguns be, man

 

[robertsan21]

No it was not fine. You can snipe with it from across the map. Range needs nerfed too. Believe me it is my favorite PvP gun and it needs toned down.

 

[SkylineRKR]

No it was not fine. You can snipe with it from across the map. Range needs nerfed too. Believe me it is my favorite PvP gun and it needs toned down.

yeah TLW range was suspect. Supposed to suck at range but whenever I ADS I had little problem to keep up with Pulse Rifles.

TLW should have shotgun properties. Not exactly, but deadly from close range and hip fire. And not as useful from longe range.

Thorn ofcourse too, I basically used it from scout rifle range. Shouldn't be so effective.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

Exactly. I don't get the nerfs to Ice Breaker and specially Black Hammer.

They absolutelly killed the Black Hammer. And for absolutelly no reason.

those guns made the shitty bullet sponge bosses more manageable. We can't have that!

 

[Kinsella]

It's because people were excluding people from LFG for not having it


Just give us matchmaking and leave the g-horn alone, spent a year defending Bungie... Can't do it no more

Wouldn't want to add a social mechanic to their social-based FPS.

 

[SkylineRKR]

those guns made the shitty bullet sponge bosses more manageable. We can't have that!

Solution is to nerf all bosses to Valus Tau Arc HP. But in that case they might as well not change a thing.

Problem is bosses in this game aren't fun to fight against. Everyone wants them dead ASAP. If the mechanics were better then a Horn fireteam LFG wasn't even needed.

 

[LtOrange]

I really want to use Auto Rifles again, so I hope this is a substantial buff. Crucible has been super boring for me ever since Hand Cannons reached god tier.

 

[geordiemp]

Bungie trying to kill their own game. Smh. All this balance bullshit is part the reason I like solo games better.

And why are you here then posting your opinion on Destiny gun balance if you dont like the game ?

There are enough Destiny haters...dont add to it please.

Single player games are not in same league as online coop games for me and I view platformers, especially 2D as just about worthy of PSN free download if I can bothered to click on them.

Each to their own.

 

[Nydius]

Thing is if they wanted to fix the DestinyLFG GHorn requirement problem they could have done it any week they wanted by allowing Xur to sell GHorn but they didn't do that for other reasons... because they want players to need something to chase to keep playing IMO... from that point of view their explanation is disingenuous at best because they created the LFG problem by putting the Horn in the game and by preventing Xur from selling it.

A compelling argument and I don't disagree: Bungie has completely mismanaged the Ghorn from the start. It has never felt like they knew how to handle it since the first (and only) time it showed up on Xur way back in week 2. I don't think they fully realized how much that one weapon could trivialize content.

 

[Glendemonium]

Well, a nerf to Gallyhorn eh? Thing is though, it's a hard decision because of how elitist the playerbase can get. It's probably why people were demanding raids to have matchmaking, because people tend to kick players if they didn't have "the right weapons"

Such is the bane of online games. Rather than nerfing they could of added some kind of competition to Gally, but truth is Gally is more of a clutch for people to rely on when Truth or Hunger or even Dragon's Breath can be utilized well in the right hands. But no, people are going to argue that it's Gallyhorn or GTFO.

 

[Kemal86]

I'm a fan of all of these changes except for Ice Breaker. It really seems random and totally unnecessary. It now takes ~50 seconds to load up one full clip. Sigh.

 

[Kinsella]

Solution is to nerf all bosses to Valus Tau Arc HP. But in that case they might as well not change a thing.

Problem is bosses in this game aren't fun to fight against. Everyone wants them dead ASAP. If the mechanics were better then a Horn fireteam LFG wasn't even needed.

The problem for Bungie is that the bosses that aren't fun to fight because Bungie can't come up with interesting boss fight mechanics were being killed too quickly, leading gamers to complain that the end game content is too easy. The answer? Nerf the guns and make the shitty boss fights take longer so that maybe gamers will stop whining about everything being too easy. The Bungie way.

I'm not a game designer so obviously take this with a grain of salt but I think that instead of making all the good guns shitty, they should make all the shitty guns good. There's just barely an incentive to switch up your loadout in this game for PVE/PVP. Most guns aren't fun to shoot either.

Also, I feel that nerfing the Gjallarhorn after over one year of it being untouched is ridiculous. Especially the reason for doing so being that "people on LFG are being bullies". Let xur sell it and be done with it.

Bungie chose to go the other way with it and have Xur sell no guns today. Slow clap.

 

[realcZk]

I'm not a game designer so obviously take this with a grain of salt but I think that instead of making all the good guns shitty, they should make all the shitty guns good. There's just barely an incentive to switch up your loadout in this game for PVE/PVP. Most guns aren't fun to shoot either.

Also, I feel that nerfing the Gjallarhorn after over one year of it being untouched is ridiculous. Especially the reason for doing so being that "people on LFG are being bullies". Let xur sell it and be done with it. That IceBreaker nerf hurts too. IB is useful in any scenario but excelled during cheesing encounters. I don't think many people really used it and with the nerf it'll be buried and forgotten.

 

[doomquake]

I'm a fan of all of these changes except for Ice Breaker. It really seems random and totally unnecessary. It now takes ~50 seconds to load up one full clip. Sigh.

I love the icebreaker but it is getting old. It is always the go to sniper

Fix: well except for burn

 

[StrongBlackVine]

And why are you here then posting your opinion on Destiny gun balance if you dont like the game ?

There are enough Destiny haters...dont add to it please.

Single player games are not in same league as online coop games for me and I view platformers, especially 2D as just about worthy of PSN free download if I can bothered to click on them.

Each to their own.

I do like the game and still play it weekly. I don't like weapons being made useless because people whine or because of social gating. I used LFG every week and never advertised that I had a max Gjallafhorn and no one asked me so that is a fake excuse.

Balance was fine IMO even if a few guns were dominating. Within a few weeks of his patch another small set of weapons will be dominating PVP again. That will never change.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

Solution is to nerf all bosses to Valus Tau Arc HP. But in that case they might as well not change a thing.

Problem is bosses in this game aren't fun to fight against. Everyone wants them dead ASAP. If the mechanics were better then a Horn fireteam LFG wasn't even needed.

correct. They weren't fun to fight the first time with common or rare guns and they aren't enjoyable time #147 running Dragon Strikes or during the weeklys.

This update shows Bungie is happy with these long, grindy battles. They're fine with how vanilla operates which is unfortunate and makes me question whether future content will be any different.

 

[MarkusRJR]

Hahahaha, this is hilarious. I have some coworkers who spend dozens of hours grinding for guns constantly only for them to get nerfed now. I feel bad for any players who are still obsessed with Destiny. It's like Bungie has been fucking over everyone interested in the game.

 

[jett]

I'm so happy ghorn is being nerfed.
Especially considering I could never seem to get one!

People would not accept me on LFG because I it wasn't part of my weapon stash.

Icebreaker on the other hand, Bungie wtf.

This is really Bungie just being dicks.

 

[TheAngryMonkey]

There are a lot of salty people over some of the changes. I'm excited to give them a chance to see how it changes the game. I think a lot of the salt comes from Bungie upsetting the known. Everyone knows that the best way to take down any boss is to get out that ghorn. Want to win PvP? Equip thorn. Changing the meta is scary for some people because now they don't necessarily *know* how to win and might need to find new tactics and the game might be hard for them again. Personally I'm just excited that Hard Light might become relevant.

 

[traveler]

Great changes, across the board. I do think rocket launchers needed slightly more of a nerf to tracking and blast radius in pvp, with horsehoes and handgrenades made a truth exclusive, so that heavy machine guns would be a bit more viable in pvp, but other than that, it seems like they hit all the necessary points.

 

[Fushichou187]

Welp, looks like it's finally time for me to log back into Destiny, level up TLW and Galla to the new cap, and finally go for that Flawless Raider trophy before they get nerfed.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Hahahaha, this is hilarious. I have some coworkers who spend dozens of hours grinding for guns constantly only for them to get nerfed now. I feel bad for any players who are still obsessed with Destiny. It's like Bungie has been fucking over everyone interested in the game.

I wish they would spend time making guns useful instead of nerfing them. Half of the exotics are not even worth equipping.

 

[RSB]

What? They are nerfing the Hand Cannons even more? LOL.

And I see they have no intention of removing those annoying accuracy penalties either (the one when airborne is the worst) SMH.

Yeah, they are definetly sabotaging their own game on purpose, there's no doubt about it anymore. Damn Bungie, you used to be so good at this... what the hell happened?

 

[LastGamer84]

This update hurts...alot.

I use hand cannons, Ice Breaker, and Gally....and all of them get the nerf bat?

My urge to play just went down alot. Sorry Bungie, I guess preferring snipers and hand cannons to shotguns and pulse rifles means I'm not the target player anymore.

Venting aside I will see how this plays out in game, but I never expected this. Seems like a bad design decision to address a lack of understanding on their part.

 

[blue_phazon]

What? They are nerfing the Hand Cannons even more? LOL.

And I see they have no intention of removing those annoying accuracy penalties either (the one when airborne is the worst) SMH.

Yeah, they are definetly sabotaging their own game on purpose, there's no doubt about it anymore. Damn Bungie, you used to be so good at this... what the hell happened?

Uhh hand cannons have been overpowered for a while now...

 

[traveler]

I wish they would spend time making guns useful instead of nerfing them. Half of the exotics are not even worth equipping.

They aren't worth equipping because of the presence of extremely powerful alternatives. Nerfing Gjallarhorn and the exotic hand cannons is a far more efficient and logical change than trying to buff everything up to their level. (which would lower ttk even more- terrible)

And they are buffing less used exotics. NLB, Hard Light, and Necrochasm- arguably the worst 3 exotics in the game- are getting buffed. I do wish Dragon's Breath got a buff as well, though.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

They aren't worth equipping because of the presence of extremely powerful alternatives. Nerfing Gjallarhorn and the exotic hand cannons is a far more efficient and logical change than trying to buff everything up to their level. (which would lower ttk even more- terrible)

And they are buffing less used exotics. NLB, Hard Light, and Necrochasm- arguably the worst 3 exotics in the game- are getting buffed. I do wish Dragon's Breath got a buff as well, though.

Super Good Advice has to be the worst exotic. I haven't used an auto rifle in months and haven't upgraded my Hard Light that I've had for like 6 months so I guess that is a positive.

I do believe it is case of more exotics being garbage than just a few being overpowered though. Most exotics don't feel exotic.

 

[KiefbladeMaster]

Thorn needed to be debuffed badly, you see at least 2 in every crucible match.

 

[Mass Effect]

Wow, they're finally nerfing the fucking Thorn. Took long enough. Most overpowered weapon I've seen in a multiplayer game in quite a while. They're also nerfing blink strike too, thank god. Though it's a little too late, I stopped playing Destiny again.

I also really hope the buff to auto rifles makes them useful again.

 

[TheAngryMonkey]

I wish they would spend time making guns useful instead of nerfing them. Half of the exotics are not even worth equipping.

I think you said "half of the exotics available don't fit my play style" wrong. Seriously, a lot of people write off some exotics as useless, even something like MIDA which I find to be excellent (but maybe you don't)

 

[wuth]

This update hurts...alot.

I use hand cannons, Ice Breaker, and Gally....and all of them get the nerf bat?

My urge to play just went down alot. Sorry Bungie, I guess preferring snipers and hand cannons to shotguns and pulse rifles means I'm not the target player anymore.

Venting aside I will see how this plays out in game, but I never expected this. Seems like a bad design decision to address a lack of understanding on their part.

It just means that people will be able to use a wider variety of weapons without being at a massive disadvantage. Heck, the nerfs might not even make them useless, just on par with other weapons. I fucking hated Gally for this reason. It never dropped, it was never sold, and it quarantined a huge population of the game on LFG. Thankfully I had friends willing to grind through content without it, but back when Crota dropped it was difficult to find a team willing to take a man without it.

 

[MechDX]

I think you said "half of the exotics available don't fit my play style" wrong. Seriously, a lot of people write off some exotics as useless, even something like MIDA which I find to be excellent (but maybe you don't)

I have yet to meet one person who likes the Dragons Breath exotic.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I though this was a pretty great set of changes. Exotics that stand so far ahead of the pack that they become the best/only solution for any situation in which that weapon class is used are poorly balanced exotics; the Horn nerf was inevitable. I appreciated that they took the time to explain the goals and changes in detail rather than just list them out. Quite a few of the exotics currently idling in the vault will get pulled out and used. And I'll actually put in the time to level the Necrochasm now, as I still just have the Husk.

The buffs to pulse rifles and auto rifles will be quite welcome in PvE. I'm sad about the shotgun re-nerf in PvE, but they'll still end up 80% more powerful than they were before the initial buff and as such should still be the beasts they are today.

I have yet to meet one person who likes the Dragons Breath exotic.

I like it! But it's not worth the exotic slot - it has the perks of a legendary. Now if it had tracking, it would be perfect.

 

[anddo0]

Gjallarhorn needed to be nerfed. It became an "elitist" weapon,, and is way too powerful to begin with.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

There are a lot of salty people over some of the changes. I'm excited to give them a chance to see how it changes the game. I think a lot of the salt comes from Bungie upsetting the known. Everyone knows that the best way to take down any boss is to get out that ghorn. Want to win PvP? Equip thorn. Changing the meta is scary for some people because now they don't necessarily *know* how to win and might need to find new tactics and the game might be hard for them again. Personally I'm just excited that Hard Light might become relevant.

Anyone complaining about a Thorn nerf can safely be ignored.

Auto rifles absolutely needed a buff. Exotic hand cannons and shotguns needed some tweaks. The rest of the wide sweeping changes don't make a lot of sense to me. Especially to PvE

I'm not a game designer so obviously take this with a grain of salt but I think that instead of making all the good guns shitty, they should make all the shitty guns good.

I don't really want to play a crucible where everything can kill me in a third of a second (which is what can happen with Last Word right now). That said I do agree they need to work on specific gun tweaks rather than make wide sweeping changes to entire classes

And with new content coming out they needed to be careful about power creep. I assume these changes are made with Taken King in mind

 

[traveler]

Super Good Advice has to be the worst exotic. I haven't used an auto rifle in months and haven't upgraded my Hard Light that I've had for like 6 months so I guess that is a positive.

I do believe it is case of more exotics being garbage than just a few being overpowered though. Most exotics don't feel exotic.

It has a role in killing Oracles. NLB, Necro, and Hard Light have no role. I think the bigger issue with HMGs is more you'll never use them in pvp over a tracking/hahg rocket launcher, because you basically have to wait out rockets if you want to use a hmg when the heavy drops. Nerfing the ability to hit rockets with little aiming would make them better across the board. I wouldn't object to a buff to super good advice, though.

The entirety of auto rifles and scout rifles are receiving buffs. Suros was plenty good, even too good, in its prime and there's nothing wrong with MIDA- you just wouldn't use it over the ridiculous weapons currently in the game. I guess I just disagree- the overpowered weapons sit way further above what the baseline should be than the underpowered weapons sit below it.

Anyone complaining about a Thorn nerf can safely be ignored.

Auto rifles absolutely needed a buff. Exotic hand cannons and shotguns needed some tweaks. The rest of the wide sweeping changes don't make a lot of sense to me. Especially to PvEI don't really want to play a crucible where everything can kill me in a third of a second (which is what can happen with Last Word right now). That said I do agree they need to work on specific gun tweaks rather than make wide sweeping changes to entire classes

And with new content coming out they needed to be careful about power creep. I assume these changes are made with Taken King in mind

They have erred on the side of caution. No expansion has had exotics on the level of vanilla Destiny. Black Hammer was the most overpowered thing to come out of either of them. These changes actually enable them to keep making weapons of a similar power level and actually have them be viable. It's the opposite of power creep.

 

[Sulik2]

Heavies are too weak except for Gally. I can understand nerfing it a bit, but they should have done a blanket improvement of heavies in PVE. They don't do nearly enough damage.

 

[Tecnniqe]

Thorn needs a good nerf, but the Ballerhorn nerf is not all that needed.
What this game DO need is matchmaking for everything. I hate having to co-ordinate and wait around to get a group going for POE above 28.

 

[MechDX]

Heavies are too weak except for Gally. I can understand nerfing it a bit, but they should have done a blanket improvement of heavies in PVE. They don't do nearly enough damage.

Been leveling up my Hunger of Crota and its seems pretty damn powerful. Have more fun using it than either of my horns to be honest

I like it! But it's not worth the exotic slot - it has the perks of a legendary. Now if it had tracking, it would be perfect.

"That guy" always shows up.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

It has a role in killing Oracles. NLB, Necro, and Hard Light have no role. I think the bigger issue with HMGs is more you'll never use them in pvp over a tracking/hahg rocket launcher, because you basically have to wait out rockets if you want to use a hmg when the heavy drops. Nerfing the ability to hit rockets with little aiming would make them better across the board. I wouldn't object to a buff to super good advice, though.

The entirety of auto rifles and scout rifles are receiving buffs. Suros was plenty good, even too good, in its prime and there's nothing wrong with MIDA- you just wouldn't use it over the ridiculous weapons currently in the game. I guess I should disagree- the overpowered weapons sit way further above what the baseline should be than the underpowered weapons sit below it.

Two people praising MIDA on the same page. I've had two drop recently. but haven't even fired it yet. I guess that is something else to try.

 

[SgtCobra]

Two people praising MIDA on the same page. I've had two drop recently. but haven't even fired it yet. I guess that is something else to try.

Sometimes it's good and sometimes it isn't, you have to find that sweet spot of engaging from longer ranges and having a character that really benefits of the agility boost the weapon gives.
Prepare yourself for lots of suppressive fire.