People are saying that it's better than dual analogs out of the gate, and not after a good amount of use. The thing that gets some time to get used to is the layout of the controller itselft, or to memorize that when the screen says SHIFT you have to press the left bumper, for instance.
Steam Controller trailer, $50
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People are saying that it's better than dual analogs out of the gate, and not after a good amount of use. The thing that gets some time to get used to is the layout of the controller itselft, or to memorize that when the screen says SHIFT you have to press the left bumper, for instance.
Candescence
Member
I wonder if they'll make a variant that replaces the analog stick with a 'proper' D-pad, for people who find the stick to be mostly pointless.
ashecitism
Member
At SSD they said they'd like to do premium editions (which may have the touchscreen etc), though haven't decided for sure, so who knows. Maybe a 3rd party manufacturer will make a version like that.
Candescence
Member
Oooh, that sounds good to me. DS-style second screen functionality would be a neat extra.
Pre-ordering, according to their employees is EB exclusive, in Canada. You'll get it mid-October instead of Nov. I still don't know if BB will have it. Steam`s page just lists EB Games.
The haptic touchpads already function as Dpads with the right setting, including one would be redundant.
ashecitism
Member
ashecitism
Member
www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1076501
as for the press, only from GDC. But I assume Valve will send out a couple for reviewing? And here's Krejlooc on the old version.
visiblemode
Member
Yet, they are beloved by literally tens of millions...
Further, this sentiment about "at last we do away with the archaic analogue stick" I seem to remember that sort of thing being said about the mouse and keyboard for gaming many times over the years, and yet why are they still used? Because they're actually awesome and always have been.
Personally I'm a massive skeptic of this controller. It could be a revolutionary device, sure, but such devices come along very, very, rarely. The only way we'll know is once we all get out hands on one and that hasn't happened yet.
Dual analog was never awsome, though. It's only usable because of dumbed down games and auto aim.
Crayon
Member
The analog thumb stick was genius on n64. But nobody can use them rigt. Im the only person ive ever known who can actually push a stick part-way or with any kind of accurracy. In general, users just flick the and bang them around. Like they would have been better off with dual dpads.
King Gilga
Member
Anyone seen what the dongle looks like? I hope it's not a big annoying one, shame it just doesn't use bt.
I wonder if they'll make a custom battery pack that you can just leave in and charge via the usb cable, ala 360 controller.
I wonder if they'll make a custom battery pack that you can just leave in and charge via the usb cable, ala 360 controller.
I was way more sceptical when it didn't have any analogue controllers. But at least now they have added back in the left analog which will cover movement for lots of games.
King Gilga
Member
It's PC anyway, someone would figure out a way to rebind without needing Steam I'm sure. Shouldn't be like wishing you could use the GC adapter on Wii U with other games or at least Wii BC.
Iced_Eagle
Member
Get yourself Eneloop rechargeables. You can get a 4-pack with a charger for $17 on Amazon. The difference between your standard throwaway Duracell's or what have you is noticeable.
I know it's a matter of personal taste, but I think going the route of AA's instead of an integrated battery pack is so much better. When you're out of juice, it takes 10 seconds to switch them out so you don't need to be wired all of a sudden and then plug in to charge halfway through a gaming session, and you never need to worry about your integrated battery pack losing its charge over its lifetime and needing to buy a whole new controller just to replace a failing battery pack.
All this talk of dual analog sticks being "archaic" is really strange to me as well... They were a really major addition to controllers in the 90's. Previous to that, there were very few FPS games available on consoles, because they were extremely hard to make and were extremely clunky in general. There was a reason why it was generally laughable to say you were making an FPS for a console with a controller. It wasn't until dual-sticks came along that you could actually make it fairly comparable to the experience you got on PC up to that point. Halo being the biggest example of them doing this right, and for that notion to get swept away.
Plus, it meant that in games where they wanted you to control the camera, without the analog stick, they needed to use two buttons on the controller to control camera rotation left and rotation right. Analog stick eliminated that, and also gave the developer easy access to do vertical rotation as well, without taking up more buttons.
I'm not arguing that there isn't a better, more precise method. I have really high hopes for the track pads on the Steam Controller. But anyone who argues that dual-sticks were BAD for the industry...? Hell no. That is crazy talk.
Astral/H3X
Member
The only thing that would make this more perfect is if the triggers were all digital.
Hmm, I don't like that. Not intuitive. Will games eventually start natively supporting it and giving the correct input names?
King Gilga
Member
I'd need to put the battery charger somewhere then, just creates clutter would rather not bother with, not to mention the spare batteries.
I did have to replace the batteries for one of my PS3 controllers, was a 5 min $5 process not a big deal imo. Dunno why'd you buy a new controller for that.
At least microsoft gives you a choice, AAs, or battery pack that charges you through the cable, 0 excuse for anyone else not to do that.
It does.
No one has said it was bad for the industry, just that it is bad for controlling a reticule in the screen. Yeah, it's better than digital input but that is it.
I believe things will look like that:
Mouse > Steam Controller >>> Wii remote/move >>>>>>>>> dual analog >>>>>> digital
But who knows?
Sure. There's an API that develpers can use. We haven't seem much of it yet, though. It can also emulates the xbox 360 controller.
Are the enaloop pro much better than the regular enaloops, cause i don't know which ones to get for the pad, and the pros are so much more expensive than regulars but, if there is a big difference i'll get them.
EDIT: hope this question doesn't come across as rude.
ashecitism
Member
OP should link the store page. Even if I posted it on the first page this thread is old, not everyone will read it.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/353370/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/353370/
Left analog IMO is the best option for character locomotion
Right analog is slightly superior to mouse for camera movement due to smoother motion
Aiming is better with a mouse, but for non-competitive play I'm fine with an analogue stick.
Analog+gyro is something I'd like to have seen more devs try. Although the steam controller has gyro, it doesn't have the right analog to combine with it.
The left touchpad could be great for analog movement. It has more surface area, so I would think it would offer more precision even when emulating a 0-255 range analog stick. And I've always had issues with analogs slipping off the bottom of my thumb in parts of games where you're holding a direction for a long time. That wouldn't be an issue with the pad.
I want to go all in on the touchpads on this thing. So even stuff like using the right touchpad's four quadrants as buttons if that works well. For modern games you could have the right touchpad act as camera control normally, then hold the right paddle button to turn the quadrants into the four face buttons to quickly select things.
I wonder about the best way to use the right pad for classic games though. Would holding down Y to keep a charge shot ready while still being able to jump work in MMX? If the tip of your thumb is on the left quadrant and has already pressed the click under the pad to register it's press, how would using the bottom part of your thumb for hitting the emulated B work? Could the bottom quadrant still register a press just from touching it with the bottom of your thumb and still feel like a press with haptic feedback? There's lots of things I want to try with this controller.
Iced_Eagle
Member
By replacing it yourself, you voided the warranty on the controller though, right? I'm fairly certain that what you are supposed to do, to maintain your warranty, is to ship your controller off to Sony and they'll replace the battery pack for you. Sure, it may be easy to do yourself, but to me, it's more of a pain than just putting in a fresh pair of AA's and being done with it. However, we each have our opinions so to each their own.
I hope that's the case. Though IMO, I would switch the Steam Controller and Wii Remote/Move. Those controllers use the direct act of pointing and so would be more precise if an object is on the screen. Granted, those controllers biggest weakness is in how you rotate the character so if an object is not on the screen, then they are at a disadvantage. That's where the Steam Controller will get a leg up.
It will be interesting to play around with the controller, and see if you can play FPS games without auto-aim /aim assist on.
Huh, didn't realize they made "pro's". They do seem to have a larger capacity, so you would get more play time out of them (25% more than regular's in fact). You can get a 4-pack with charger for $24 on Amazon. While I personally cannot vouch for them, they do seem solid. It's really up to you. I've had the regular's and been very happy with them, so I would go for those if you don't want to spend the extra money.
Yeah, I agree with you for the most part, except that I'm not exactly fine aiming with the analog even for non-competitive play. Sure, I can play when there's no other alternative like a console exclusive, or even when the Xbox 360 controller is better on PC like in The Witcher 3 (with a crossbow), but always thinking how much better the experience would be with a better control input.
Good question. I'm wondering about that as well now.
Boombox On
Member
That would be terrible.
King Gilga
Member
Warranty is only for a year, no controllers batterie is going to die in that time frame, the one I fixed was like 5 years old at that point (like 8 years old now and still trucking along fine) and an import anyways.
It was a launch import Japanese DS3, because fucking waiting for the western release that and having to use that cheap ass disgusting sixaxis piece of shit my console came with.
Astral/H3X
Member
Given I love my Wii U controller precisely because digital is better for 99% of games, in particular Dark Souls and Bayonetta, I'm gonna say it wouldn't be terrible.
King Gilga
Member
It would literally be the worst.
ashecitism
Member
Last year I read about it you can configure it to be digital-only, analog-only or both.
This was GDC '14, no idea if they changed it.
Need to ask the guy with the recent write-up to post the trigger config menu.
You could map the paddle buttons (the ones under your three bottom fingers) as digital triggers.
Cool. Thanks.
I think I've just conditioned myself to be comfortable with the smoother, fixed angular rotation speed of an analog stick vs the more rapid but more violent movement of a mouse. Seems to suit third person games especially which is more my taste than FPS games.
I think the reason I'm sceptical of the left trackpad for movement is lack of feedback for neutral position, and holding a certain movement speed. The sprung return to centre of a stick helps with that I think. Will definitely be interested to try it out though.
Boombox On
Member
A digital trigger gives players less control over what happens in a game. That is not a good thing. Any racing that isn't Mario Kart - ok, even Mario Kart - would play worse with digital triggers.
It's a bad idea.
Refreshment.01
Member
While i do understand your argument and agree mostly. i dont understand why racing is brought up as a good example for analog triggers. When it would be better to use the thumbsticks as bracking and acceleration. Most cars that i know of controll such actions with a pushing motion not a pulling one.
In reality analog triggers are not used in really useful or at least interesting ways in the mayority of games.
ashecitism
Member
That's what ars technica claim. The store page only says it works wired or wireless (dual mode).
I want to see some footage/reviews of the steam link streaming.
I really hope it's solid. I have my living room entertainment center hardwired with an 8 port ethernet switch back to my router so I'd be on a wired connection. being able to play on my TV without lugging my tower around is definitely worth $50 to me.
I really hope it's solid. I have my living room entertainment center hardwired with an 8 port ethernet switch back to my router so I'd be on a wired connection. being able to play on my TV without lugging my tower around is definitely worth $50 to me.
No. This guy has one and says in the comments that it works fine wired without batteries.
http://devinandrewwhite.com/2015/07/07/everything-you-need-to-know-about-valves-steam-controller/
ashecitism
Member
Oh I didn't see that response. That settles it then. Wouldn't have made much sense otherwise anyway.
Getting some Eneloops for the first time to use in my Xbone while my PS4 controller kept capping out on me officially changed my mind on the AA vs. built in batteries.
Astral/H3X
Member
Pray tell, what is the analog function in Mariokart?
Or Dark Souls? CoD? What about Bayonetta? How about Assassins Creed? Man I loved the analog pressure sensitivity in Halo.
Wait a second...
Fact of the matter is dodging in Bayonetta and parrying in Souls games becomes much easier with digital triggers. Analog provides them nothing.
Boombox On
Member
Because that actually isn't better. Conflict is going to happen when you have those two opposed actions on the same input. Try to have input for a camera look around (which is what the right thumbstick is normally used for in racing games) and you've created 3 potentially simultaneous commands on one input - yes, using the gas and brake at the same time is definitely a thing.
Plus you wouldn't be able to look behind you without braking so you implement that on another button, but don't use the action/face buttons or you'll have to take your thumb off and stop accelerating/decelerating... and this gets convoluted really quickly.