Can you give me a breakdown of the mechanics, since you clearly seem to have played a lot of this?
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Rising Thunder - new PC, UE4, Free-to-Play fighter from Seth Killian
- Thread starter ezekial45
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Can you give me a breakdown of the mechanics, since you clearly seem to have played a lot of this?
EX moves are tied to a resource. The time between EX moves can be a lot longer than any cooldowns if the player can't get any meter. And you can use the same EX move right after another if you have enough meter. With cooldowns, zoning with three EX fireballs in a row can't happen.
SpiceMelange
Member
What are you talking about? I said "seems" as in, speculation from what we've seen. Go have a fight elsewhere.
Yeah, but conceptually its pretty much a cooldown. We only know the concept in this game. Cooldowns in fighting games are not a bad thing intrinsically. All the EX moves are overpowered in a vacuum, and are controlled by that secondary resource. There is design space for other special/super moves controlled solely by time. The concept is fine, its going to depend entirely on execution.
or perhaps the primary goal was to simplify motions people complain about, not the spam complaints necessarily and cooldown was their way of balancing, with the end result the same.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Rise of the Robots is a solid base for any new fighting IP.
That said, the game still looks interesting.
SpiceMelange
Member
Reduces wakeup options, reduces combos (no loops), reduces mobility (no 2 green hands). EX are superior versions of specials so it makes sense they are limited by a ressources. Specials aren't strickly better version of normals, they are alternatives with different hitboxes, frame data and properties and shouldn't be tied to a ressource or cooldown.
That's an interesting choice. I applaud the focus on online play, but that doesn't have to preclude local play. I'm not sure it's worth having a one-sided invisibility move and hidden cooldowns at the expense of playing the game locally.
EDIT: Perhaps they can come up with more things to hinge on the fact that it's online only.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Yeah. Basically comes across as an "anti spamming" tool. Generally listening to people upset by spamming isn't something anyone should ever do.
Gameplay looks solid. Aesthetics/sound are generic as fuck. S-kill is the man, interested in peeping this
Do you know that though? Maybe the tool is so good that it shouldn't be abused. Maybe the creators wanted to encourage variety in play?
Why not just have fireball motions but with cool downs, then? From the Polygon video it sounded like they wanted to make the inputs as simple as possible as the primary design goal
shaowebb
Member
Watch any Ryu SFIV match. Fireballs all day. Its how they control space...you can't do this in Rising Thunder. Its set up so that folks who can't learn to deal with zoning don't have to. Meaning its likely gonna be about as neutral and footsie as it gets since this will essentially take away the full screen play.
I like that they tried to make this approachable, but I think it throws a lot of depth under the bus by doing that. I'll keep an open mind till I play it though. Its bucking trends and seems like it has someone who cares at its helm so its worth giving a fair shot.
I will say this though...it looks cheap in spite of the love someone is obviously pouring into its combat. That desert background is lifeless. So little there, no personality...nothing. Glad the robots have a lot more character in match than the trailer let on. Vlad was pretty fun with his whole old school robot animations, and little flag. Pretty fun looking. They need to put more into the stages though to sell the world and to show more personality.
qa_engineer
Member
I am no longer into fighting games, havent been since Street Fighter on SNES, but this looks pretty cool.
What's to say there won't be a character with projectile moves on a 1 second or less cooldown? The longest cooldown I saw in the match I watched was 3 seconds, so it's not like there are huge gaps there.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Just seems a strange requirement. Someone really decidated to throwing a fireball will probably just end up inventing ways to run away more efficiently given such limitations. They're not looking to be a rushdown player in the first place.
In that video they said there will be a ton of selectable loadouts
Glass Shark
Banned
The philosophy behind this seems really interesting, and the designs look cool! I tend to avoid fighting games because I have a hard time pulling off special moves and combos, but I'll have to give this one a shot.
SerTapTap
Member
Removing zoning could just as easily be a deliberate design decision--zoning is basically what a lot of beginner players will call "spam" and even having mostly mastered the basic per-move input requirements for Skullgirls I still find having to deal with zoning to be a huge turn off, as interesting as it was to see in the GG Xrd matches at Evo. Zoning also introduces a lot of mechanical complexity in the movement of the defending character.
Not all fighting games need all aspects after all. Seems totally possible this could be quite interesting even without zoning. Zoning is hardly a required part of fighting--many characters don't have any projectile/trap/etc options at all, even in games with crazy zoning characters.
Remapped88
Member
Kept seeing this during breaks at Evo and signed up 2 days ago because why not....and that's before I knew Seth Killian was involved. Was wondering where he went off to after the Playstation All Stars game and it's cool that's he working on another fighter. Interest jumped up a bit now that I know that and I love playing fighters in general so a new IP that tries something different is very welcome imo.
The core fighting basically looks like a basic version of Street Fighter imo and the info sounds interesting since you can choose your own special moves for each character. Loadouts in a fighter is weird but I'm intrigued since the Polygon video said each character has a least 100 variants per character.....wonder how that will work. Though I'm kinda worried about the cool down on specials and a few of them seem to take 5-7 seconds while others are shorter. Seems kinda weird but the Alpha is next week so it's not that far to test stuff out and see how it is I guess. Also it starts on the day the SFV beta ends so next week is gonna be fun week to be a fighting game fan!
The core fighting basically looks like a basic version of Street Fighter imo and the info sounds interesting since you can choose your own special moves for each character. Loadouts in a fighter is weird but I'm intrigued since the Polygon video said each character has a least 100 variants per character.....wonder how that will work. Though I'm kinda worried about the cool down on specials and a few of them seem to take 5-7 seconds while others are shorter. Seems kinda weird but the Alpha is next week so it's not that far to test stuff out and see how it is I guess. Also it starts on the day the SFV beta ends so next week is gonna be fun week to be a fighting game fan!
Very interesting. I was waiting for someone to try a F2P fighting game on PC, and this one could work, even though the character design is nothing special. They need something that stands out more to attract the casuals.
I don't know what to think about the cooldown on moves. Hakumen in BB basically works like that (he gains meter automatically, no matter what you do) but at least he has one bar for all specials, while here there's a separate cooldown for each move ( = less flexibility). I need to try it.
I don't know what to think about the cooldown on moves. Hakumen in BB basically works like that (he gains meter automatically, no matter what you do) but at least he has one bar for all specials, while here there's a separate cooldown for each move ( = less flexibility). I need to try it.
transience
Member
I'm gonna give this a try because of the pedigree. special move cooldowns and some bland art design aren't doing a great job of convincing me but I'm hoping that it's more fun to play than to look at. there's some great fighting game minds behind this but the art kind of betrays it.
What if the cooldown on the fireballs is low/non existent, though?
While Seth Killian's name gives me hope, I can't really see the appeal of this. It's really ugly artistically and more importantly it just seems like a Street Fighter clone. The only While adding cooldowns and loadouts will definitely make the game a little different, nothing I've seen in the gameplay department stands out to me in a meaningful way.
Three specials and 5 versions of each special comes out to 125 variants. Nothing too complicated I imagine
Three specials and 5 versions of each special comes out to 125 variants. Nothing too complicated I imagine
To Far Away Times
Member
I've always liked the idea of simplifying inputs. Ideally, you should be getting to the "yomi" as soon as possible. A well designed game should have enough depth without relying on complex mechanics and inputs.
Soul Calibur got this balance right, IMO.
Soul Calibur got this balance right, IMO.
shadowstar
Member
The additional comparison with EX moves people aren't mentioning is; you can see your opponent has meter so you can adjust your play style accordingly to bait EX moves. This is the same thing as games with breakers (Persona, Guilty Gear) where you can bait the breaker. You can't see your opponent's cooldowns in this game.
Also, EX moves, supers, and breakers are a special tools that are extra powerful and therefore are limited by resources. Unless these special moves are all similar to EX moves, it is not an apt comparison.
Also, EX moves, supers, and breakers are a special tools that are extra powerful and therefore are limited by resources. Unless these special moves are all similar to EX moves, it is not an apt comparison.
This might blow your mind but depending on how you look at it, even ignoring start-up and recovery frames there's already a ~1 second long cooldown on Guile sonic booms. That doesn't stop him from having a strong projectile based zoning game. Maybe wait until we know more about the game than "special moves don't have inputs and have cooldown periods" before writing off an entire fighting game plan as being dead.
This is unrelated to your post, but I also don't really think simplifying special moves is going to do anything. If you're the kind of person who is incapable of doing fireball motions, but you're also too lazy/stupid to practice doing them until they're a non-issue, you're not going to find much success in the fighting game genre even without an "execution barrier."
Remapped88
Member
Makes sense I suppose and I'm guessing it's probably like Smash Bros Wii U customs in a way. Guessing that it the same 3 or so specials but different properties on each variant.....kinda neat but I guess we'll see soon.
Cameron122
Member
One Must Fall 2097 campaign mode or get out 
shadowstar
Member
This is exactly how I feel. Games with easy execution already exist yet I don't see these people playing any version of Smash, Soul Calibur, hell even MK (in relation to others) seriously. In the end, they're still going to fall behind the meta and complain about something new.
lol
tragic
Developer
EatinOlives
Member
I mean I wouldn't even have to go that far.
One look at that poverty UI and we all knew they were on a shoestring budget.
"Iron Fist"?
Yes, this game continues the trend of fighting games being built with Unreal: https://twitter.com/UnrealEngine/status/623171279722577920
CountAntonius
Member
So many devs have said they want to limitnthe entry barrier and these guysnare the dirst to actually have an interesting approach to it. Cooldowns are a smart idea too. I think we need to judge the game based on it's own merits and see if it's fin and deep without comparing it to more traditional games. It's a jell of a risk but I'm glad someone is taking it.
Teknopathetic
Member
I'll give it a shot because of the pedigree but I hope S-kill isn't falling into the same trap Sirlin fell into with HD Remix.