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[Fuchsdh]

No, I was referring to the case studies I've had to read while studying for my Master in Public Health. I'll get some specific studies you can read once I get home.


Because all the rhetoric coming from his campaign has been downplaying addressing race specifically in favor of this "economic equality will solve the problem" thing.

The question is still what Sanders can do as president to end racism beyond things like addressing economic inequalities. It's like people demanding Obama do something about excessive use of force by police; no doubt he'd like to be King Obama, and he's taken some steps, but you're talking about a state and local issue he cannot directly touch. Likewise, it's not like Sanders can go into every home in America, show people their deepest pain and then bond them together in a post racial brotherhood.

 

[God Dayumm]

Why not disrupt a Republican rally? Unless that happened, then I'm just ignorant on it.

Maybe because these protesters actually want to vote for those democrat candidates because they partially resonate with their ideas, but they worry that their main fears will not be addressed. The republicans fly off the radar and are a lost cause for them, but others can protest at their rallies too.

And I'm sure this will work too. Sanders and the others will have to think more about these particular issues if want to get that vote.

 

[Arkeband]

Hah, that got old in the other thread.

Bernie's team royally screwed up that post too. Enough that they had to edit it (check out that post now).

You don't put #SayHerName, and then add a one woman and multiple men. That hashtag was meant strictly to point out that black women were dealing with state violence too, and were getting nearly as much attention.


Only Bernie (and his team) is going to curb this. By listening, actually listening. And maybe diversifying the team too, because they clearly don't know how to converse in this specific space. But they are going to need to, because his supporters right now are torching a whole lot of good will from black voters and activists (many of who have a lot of younger black voters attention).

Say Her Name was started because of that one woman, though. While it could have been written better, it's just belligerent to take issue with it because it tried to forward two related causes at once. It isn't like he threw a white person into the list by accident.

They fixed it because they didn't want people to get sidetracked with list etiquette.

 

[DrNeroCF]

O'malley had it on lock though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2mqJRcERRk

Did they just boo because he added 'white lives matter' after 'black lives matter'?

That's pretty gross...

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Hashtagish over actual policies.

Hey, I actually wanted Bernie to be competitive against Hillary. Him and his team actually giving a shit about how modern black activists communicate would have helped.

But if you think he'll do great without black people on his side, cool.

 

[Mumei]

I think he was referring the the David Chae study, which used google search analysis for the n-word for areas and compared the mortality rate. It was pretty "science-ish" but I don't know if the correlation is actually meaningful at all.

He might also have been referring to information about the impact of racism on allostatic load:

According to the study, conducted by researchers at the University of Georgia and Emory University, 20-year-old African Americans who had reported repeated discrimination during their childhood experienced a type of biological wear and tear on their body ("allostatic load"), due to the stress, putting them at risk for chronic diseases as they age.

"In the past, health professionals have believed that chronic diseases of aging such as heart disease originate in middle age, shortly before the appearance of symptoms, but our research shows that these illnesses originate much earlier, beginning in childhood and adolescence," said Gene H. Brody, director of the Center for Family Research at the University of Georgia, who led the study.

Data was collected from 331 young African Americans living in rural Georgia, in small, impoverished towns where unemployment rates are high, EurekAlert notes. Participants, who were also part of the Strong African American Families Healthy Adolescent Project, were surveyed at 16, 17, 18 and 20 years old. The study measured the racial discrimination experienced and the emotional support participants got from their parents and peers. Researchers then determined their allostatic load by measuring blood pressure, body mass index and levels stress-related hormones in their urine.

It wasn’t all bad news, since the study also found that while stress put the youths at risk, emotional support from parents and friends could help ease the damage to their bodies and health.

 

[Arkeband]

Hey, I actually wanted Bernie to be competitive against Hillary. Him and his team actually giving a shit about how modern black activists communicate would have helped.

But if you think he'll do great without black people on his side, cool.

Ya because he messed up a hashtag, that erases his entire lifetime of pro-black politics.

Good to see you have your priorities in order.

 

[nynt9]

Isn't that silly though? Aren't you just asking for the same thing that Republicans are asking, except in the opposite direction? That if the US arrives at this ideal location, all the problems will be solved. And then you rebuff any questions about the viability of that ideal by saying, "Well, we never had it yet, so we can't really compare"?

Right now you are trying to sell the idea that economic progressivism will solve racial inequality. You're trying to link economic progressivism to what it can do for racism. But you haven't rebuffed the obvious comparison I made, which is that even though women are half the population and men share space with them all the time, and that many, many of those men are well-educated, sexism is still quite prevalent. If more education couldn't solve this for females even amongst the wealthy, how do you expect more education to solve racism?

You're implying that our education and policies are in a good enough state, then saying feminism isn't solved. I'd argue that they're not in a good enough place yet. Look at countries with a higher OECD education index, like Sweden and Norway. They have much better gender equality. Of course this isn't the only solution, and solving this won't solve the problem. I don't know how to solve racism or sexism, but increasing education and economic equality can't hurt. It's one of the larger causes of inequality for sure. And income inequality perpetuates structures that cause racial disparity. I don't know how one solves racism, but giving black people better opportunities to pull their lives out of the hole that decades of racism has stuck them in is a good step I think.

 

[werks]

Isn't that silly though? Aren't you just asking for the same thing that Republicans are asking, except in the opposite direction? That if the US arrives at this ideal location, all the problems will be solved. And then you rebuff any questions about the viability of that ideal by saying, "Well, we never had it yet, so we can't really compare"?

Right now you are trying to sell the idea that economic progressivism will solve racial inequality. You're trying to link economic progressivism to what it can do for racism. But you haven't rebuffed the obvious comparison I made, which is that even though women are half the population and men share space with them all the time, and that many, many of those men are well-educated, sexism is still quite prevalent. If more education couldn't solve this for females even amongst the wealthy, how do you expect more education to solve racism?

So what actual positions do #BLM want Bernie Sanders to take that he doesn't already support. What policies should Sanders adopt that will directly impact the lives of african americans? Or what policies does Bernie Sanders currently support that will negatively impact minorities and is the reason for the #BLM protest.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Say Her Name was started because of that one woman, though.

No, it was started long before Sandra Bland. Gain prominence recently due to Sandra? Yes.

But to avoid anecdotes, a twitter search would show that it's been around since not long after Garner/Brown got national attention. At least.

 

[kirblar]

Who do you think Carcetti was based on? Marion Berry?

O'Malley. Why do you think I said he was literally Carcetti?

 

[ErasureAcer]

Watched some snippets of this "event"(Couldn't bare to watch the whole thing, had to keep fastforwarding) and when the host stopped asking O'Malley questions to bust out his cellphone(which he did numerous times checking god knows what, even while he was asking questions or O'Malley was responding) to take a fucking picture of the crowd instead("I've gotta take a picture of this") just goes to show what a joke that function was. No one is ever going to speak and listen to anything that host is involved in.

 

[Fenderputty]

Because all the rhetoric coming from his campaign has been downplaying addressing race specifically in favor of this "economic equality will solve the problem" thing.

I mean, does anyone really think it's one thing and not a mixture of a bunch of things? Economics isn't the solution, it's a piece of whatever solution needs to happen though.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Ya because he messed up a hashtag, that erases his entire lifetime of pro-black politics.

Good to see you have your priorities in order.

Bringing up the past hasn't worked yet despite many, many Bernie supporters doing it. Neither has questioning the priorities of people that want to stop being killed.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

Except there is absolutely no evidence showing that economic policies can solve racism. Every big liberal economic policy has resulted in black people lagging behind while whites reap the benefits because this country was literally and figuratively built through racism.

Is there evidence for a 100% fool-proof way to remove racism?

Racial diversity is a fact of life. There's no getting around that. I think the best way to combat racism is rooted in cultural norms, and the best way to do that is integration.

When economically disadvantaged black communities are faced with crime, it's easy for individuals to generalize them (anecdotally). It's a known fact that poverty and social problems are tightly-coupled, hence the term socioeconomic.

The path to ending racism is a long and arduous process. Cultural norms such as racism have developed, grown, and evolved over hundreds of years. To expect an instantaneous and easily digestible solution is silly.

Economics is not the 100% answer, but it's important part of the solution. By addressing poverty in black communities, the hope is to fight black crime by putting them back to work and school. There exists steps beyond the economic, but the economic problem is one that can be solved in the "near-term" and can be understood by the wider population.

Is there any quotes of Mr. Sanders saying that economics is the ONLY way to fight racism?

 

[East Lake]

It'll be interesting to see how the narrative progresses.

It seems in this very thread we've moved past the claims that Bernie ignores racial inequality and moved on to claiming he believes it's a byproduct of economic inequality. The next step is the realization that Bernie has actually addressed most of the issues brought up and doesn't actually think that way, but since that involves capitulating it'll probably evolve into Bernie's "addressing our issues now but only after being prodded by activists", thus forming the new narrative that casts him as some unprincipled fraud.

 

[jmood88]

Nothing will "solve" racism because human beings are naturally kind of shitty. That's just life. But his policies would help the black community more than any other candidate by far, in a real and impactful way. I don't see how that's not worth celebrating, let alone protesting.

That's like shooting yourself in the foot because you don't walk fast enough.

It's not worth celebrating because this isn't a game, it's people's lives; we don't get the benefit of being to grade someone on a curve. Bernie Sanders' economic policies won't help keep me from being seen as a threat by a police officer. If any housing reforms are made, I'll still have to worry about if I'll be denied a loan based on my race. He can break up the banks and that won't keep me from getting unfair loans. There's absolutely nothing wrong with holding politicians accountable. I don't even necessarily agree with the way they interrupted the event but this is what happens when you don't do an adequate job of specifically addressing people's concerns. Also, this wasn't just about Bernie, they would've done this even if he wasn't there, but the responses from him and his hardcore supporters have been disappointing, to say the least, and that's why it has turned into an indictment on him.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Those people that "don't want to learn" are the voting block that's going to cost Bernie Boy the primaries. He better clear up his message if he knows what's good for him.

This is what worries me. Sanders' messaging on this issue is dreadful. I thought his response to the protest was just really badly done; it deserved a more dignified and carefully-thought through response that touched upon individual issues - body cameras for the police, heavy use of affirmative action in police recruitment, including racial awareness in police training, reforming the judicial system, improving court access for black people, changing electoral restrictions that are designed effectively to remove the black vote, and so on. However, he does still offer the best policies for improving the plight of the black community in America. If his messaging costs him the attention or votes of individual black Americans, that means either a) they're not voting, or b) they're voting for Clinton or some other candidate. a) just reinforces the idea that this is not a demographic worth competing for, and b) is genuinely harmful - it implies that you don't actually have to have good policies at all and messaging is all that matters.

Not voting Sanders because his policies aren't good enough when they're better than the available candidates is as bad as not voting for Hillary in the presidential election when Sanders inevitably gets eliminated in the primaries (as he will). This obviously doesn't inure either Sanders or Clinton from criticism, but I think it is really important that criticism comes with context. I'll call out Hillary on her stance on racial equality - like when she responded to #BlackLivesMatter by saying that all lives matter - but I'll also say that I'll still vote for Hillary over any Republican alternative; and it's even more important this is done for Sanders because of how low (relatively speaking) his profile is.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

It's not worth celebrating because this isn't a game, it's people's lives; we don't get the benefit of being to grade someone on a curve. Bernie Sanders' economic policies won't help keep me from being seen as a threat by a police officer. If any housing reforms are made, I'll still have to worry about if I'll be denied a loan based on my race. He can break up the banks and that won't keep me from getting unfair loans. There's absolutely nothing wrong with holding politicians accountable. I don't even necessarily agree with the way they interrupted the event but this is what happens when you don't do an adequate job of specifically addressing people's concerns. Also, this wasn't just about Bernie, they would've done this even if he wasn't there, but the responses from him and his hardcore supporters have been disappointing, to say the least, and that's why it has turned into an indictment on him.

I'm like a few others in this thread, what do you want done regarding issues that are hard to be enforced by law? You gave an example of corporations throwing away resumes with ethnic names, what do you propose politicians do about that? In general, how would you come at the issue of racism and what goal do you feel should be one people should go for?

 

[Pacify]

Did they just boo because he added 'white lives matter' after 'black lives matter'?

That's pretty gross...

I think what some people don't get (and is the source of confusion) is that BLM isn't just a phrase. When you follow it up with other phrases, you're belittling an actual cause.

I saw these tweets posted elsewhere and thought they summed it up well.

For people who think they are being more inclusive by saying #AllLivesMatter in response to #BlackLivesMatter , they are in reality (un)consciously undermining the purpose of the movement because THIS particular movement is about SPECIFIC issues, as any decently effective movement is. For example, it's hard to have an effective protest that's about gender equality, animal rights, racial equality, and saving the environment because that's not how getting **** done works. But I've never seen #AllLivesMatter promoted by someone who actually fights for social justice. So someone getting up in arms bc of #BlackLivesMatter while they sit on the sidelines and do little

http://mashable.com/2015/07/20/matt-mcgorry-black-lives-matter/

 

[nynt9]

It's not worth celebrating because this isn't a game, it's people's lives; we don't get the benefit of being to grade someone on a curve. Bernie Sanders' economic policies won't help keep me from being seen as a threat by a police officer. If any housing reforms are made, I'll still have to worry about if I'll be denied a loan based on my race. He can break up the banks and that won't keep me from getting unfair loans. There's absolutely nothing wrong with holding politicians accountable. I don't even necessarily agree with the way they interrupted the event but this is what happens when you don't do an adequate job of specifically addressing people's concerns. Also, this wasn't just about Bernie, they would've done this even if he wasn't there, but the responses from him and his hardcore supporters have been disappointing, to say the least, and that's why it has turned into an indictment on him.

I understand your concerns, but me and others have asked you what you want from politicians in order to alleviate them and you still haven't acknowledged those posts. "End racism" is clearly the end goal but what are the steps and stopgaps? I legitimately want to understand so I can be better educated on the issue.

 

[Ayt]

So what actual positions do #BLM want Bernie Sanders to take that he doesn't already support. What policies should Sanders adopt that will directly impact the lives of african americans? Or what policies does Bernie Sanders currently support that will negatively impact minorities and is the reason for the #BLM protest.

This is what I'd like to know.

 

[ErasureAcer]

It's not worth celebrating because this isn't a game, it's people's lives; we don't get the benefit of being to grade someone on a curve. Bernie Sanders' economic policies won't help keep me from being seen as a threat by a police officer. If any housing reforms are made, I'll still have to worry about if I'll be denied a loan based on my race. He can break up the banks and that won't keep me from getting unfair loans. There's absolutely nothing wrong with holding politicians accountable. I don't even necessarily agree with the way they interrupted the event but this is what happens when you don't do an adequate job of specifically addressing people's concerns. Also, this wasn't just about Bernie, they would've done this even if he wasn't there, but the responses from him and his hardcore supporters have been disappointing, to say the least, and that's why it has turned into an indictment on him.

Thesis without backup. You fail.

We point out the facts. It's whether or not the black community wants to actually acknowledge the facts and allies on your side. Shouting them off the stage is not how to uplift black lives. Those people talking over the candidates as well as the host did a disservice to the cause. Your anger and disappointment should be placed at them and not Sanders or O'Malley.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

It'll be interesting to see how the narrative progresses.

It seems in this very thread we've moved past the claims that Bernie ignores racial inequality and moved on to claiming he believes it's a byproduct of economic inequality.

It was always the latter, those who are angry at the protesters thought it was the former.


To everyone in the thread: most of the protesters, including those that showed up at NN15, know about Bernie's track record. You can stop bringing it up now.

That's part of why they went in in the first place, because you'd think he'd be the most upfront about it. The one pushing against state violence the hardest.

But he isn't. The economic reforms is the most prominent part of his speeches, when it's the immediate concern for many Democratic voters.

 

[werks]

Bringing up the past hasn't worked yet despite many, many Bernie supporters doing it. Neither has questioning the priorities of people that want to stop being killed.

Than you are more concerned about fluff rather than substance. Why should the past of the only presidential candidate who actually took part in the civil rights movement and has a history of pro minority legislation matter.

But lets talk about the present. What policies of Sanders do you oppose or think he can do better on?

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Thesis without backup. You fail.

We point out the facts. It's whether or not the black community wants to actually acknowledge the facts and allies on your side. Shouting them off the stage is not how to uplift black lives. Those people talking over the candidates as well as the host did a disservice to the cause. Your anger and disappointment should be placed at them and not Sanders or O'Malley.

Ironically, you just provided backup, like many others in the thread.

 

[Train of Midnight]

It's not worth celebrating because this isn't a game, it's people's lives; we don't get the benefit of being to grade someone on a curve. Bernie Sanders' economic policies won't help keep me from being seen as a threat by a police officer. If any housing reforms are made, I'll still have to worry about if I'll be denied a loan based on my race. He can break up the banks and that won't keep me from getting unfair loans. There's absolutely nothing wrong with holding politicians accountable. I don't even necessarily agree with the way they interrupted the event but this is what happens when you don't do an adequate job of specifically addressing people's concerns. Also, this wasn't just about Bernie, they would've done this even if he wasn't there, but the responses from him and his hardcore supporters have been disappointing, to say the least, and that's why it has turned into an indictment on him.

I think you're looking for changes to global reality, not political policy. No single elected official is going to suddenly make you less threatening to the police, unless they can go back a couple decades and move your specific police officer into a better school with more progressive parents at home.

Racism is a systemic, human issue. That's not getting fixed in the next 4-8 years, probably not ever. At the very least Bernie is fighting the economic symptoms of racism. And that's as good as it gets right now.

 

[KingK]

No, I was referring to the case studies I've had to read while studying for my Master in Public Health. I'll get some specific studies you can read once I get home.


Because all the rhetoric coming from his campaign has been downplaying addressing race specifically in favor of this "economic equality will solve the problem" thing.

When has he ever said economic policy can "solve racism?" It can certainly mitigate the effects though, and is something government can actually do. And he also speaks in support of police reform, body cams, criminal justice reform, and has always opposed mass incarceration. What policies do you propose he support to "end racism?" What different policies does Hilary support that spare her from the same ire? These criticisms of Bernie just seem ridiculously misplaced.

Everyone keeps saying he's downplaying or ignoring racial issues and then ignoring everything he's said or done about racial issues.

 

[East Lake]

It was always the latter, those who are angry at the protesters thought it was the former.


To everyone in the thread: most of the protesters, including those that showed up at NN15, know about Bernie's track record. You can stop bringing it up now.

That's part of why they went in in the first place, because you'd think he'd be the most upfront about it. The one pushing against state violence the hardest.

But he isn't. The economic reforms is the most prominent part of his speeches, when it's the immediate concern for many Democratic voters.

They clearly don't know or haven't been following. The quotes in the Vox article are delusional.

I hope it's not just him saying, "If these Negroes were working there wouldn't be any problems," because ooh, that's not too far from some really bold negative statements that we've heard about the black race in the past. I don't think that's what's underlying it, I just think he needs to be more vocal and speak with some authority about it because he seems to run from talking about it. I don't think it's that hard to talk about it. Elizabeth Warren knocked the socks off the room, because she was talking about the economy, but she just happened to mention, "Hey, black lives matter, we do need people working, we do need to get people out of jails." She was very vocal about it, but I didn't feel like she was just coming there to kiss butt. I felt like she was just being sincere.

Nobody actually paying attention to Bernie would entertain this nonsense. Bernie literally says the exact same thing as Warren in the video I posted earlier.

 

[not psycho]

He talked about how awful our mass incarceration crisis is, bringing up the statistics for minorities and that we incarcerate more people than China. He talked about how minorities are systematically treated as criminals. He said police have treated prisoners terribly and killed them unjustly. He called for bold changes in the culture of law enforcement, for holding police accountable, for demilitarizing police forces. He voted for alternative sentencing instead of ramping up mass incarceration, and he voted against more prosecuting and sentencing for juvenile offenders.

That isn't all negated because he also talks about money. Saying "it makes more sense to spend money on education instead of mass incarceration" doesn't imply "the culture is fine though." On the contrary, the economic aspect is essential. You can't separate culture from economics. It does sound a bit awkward to speak of the moral and cultural aspects of systemic racism at the same time as the economic aspects, but sounding awkward is not a good reason to avoid it.

Having said that, I don't know enough about Sanders to truly defend him. That is most likely because I haven't done enough research on him, but also may be a lack of clarity on his part. Though he calls for "alternative sentencing", what exactly does that mean? What exactly should happen for drug offenses, or what drugs should be legalized? Maybe it is unrealistic but I want more specifics.

 

[ErasureAcer]

It was always the latter, those who are angry at the protesters thought it was the former.


To everyone in the thread: most of the protesters, including those that showed up at NN15, know about Bernie's track record. You can stop bringing it up now.

That's part of why they went in in the first place, because you'd think he'd be the most upfront about it. The one pushing against state violence the hardest.

But he isn't. The economic reforms is the most prominent part of his speeches, when it's the immediate concern for many Democratic voters.

If he isn't...who is?

How bout the BLM people write to Bernie Sanders in mass, or hashtag or however people correspond and ask him to do a series of speeches, postpone his stump speech, on issues at the forefront of black lives.

If the black community isn't moved by his stump speech...they should host him where he can speak to their concerns...but since he just tried to fucking do that this past weekend and he was talked over numerous times...maybe you should start your campaign to get him to speak to in-depth black issues with an apology.

"I'm sorry for the way you were treated at NN. We at [name here] have a legitimate host and love that you've fought for the black community and black lives your entire life, even when it was not popular to do so. Please we'd love to learn more about you and your in-depth plan to improve the lives of black people all across this nation. Thank you."

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

But lets talk about the present. What policies of Sanders do you oppose or think he can do better on?

For one, I hugely disagree with him on PLCAA, he helped vote for the prevention of the closing of Gitmo, and his minority outreach has never been great. That last one he can improve on (though all this is a bad start). And that could have nasty effects on his ideas for universal economic policies.

I think the PLCAA on is a lost cause though because he doubled down on it, which may have affects on gun control.


And his ideas for police reform is much like what the rest of the candidates are asking for, but if he really wants to push Hillary, he needs to do more than that.

 

[kame-sennin]

I guess the protesters didn't get the memo that the candidates at this town hall were actually on their side?

Yeah, that's the way to get your message across, hijack a public forum that probably would've been more then happy to address your issue (and probably agree with you) if it was brought up in a civilized manner.

"Black live matter... white lives matter, all lives matter". Sounds like bullshit to me.

What is the "right" way to protest?

Go home and say nothing.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

maybe you should start your campaign to get him to speak to in-depth black issues with an apology.

"I'm sorry for the way you were treated at NN. We at [name here] have a legitimate host and love that you've fought for the black community and black lives your entire life, even when it was not popular to do so. Please we'd love to learn more about you and your in-depth plan to improve the lives of black people all across this nation. Thank you."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

If you really think that's how it should go, then you've got some stuff to examine. This is classic, "Hey guys, they threw you a bone so shut up" paternalistic bullshit.


And if Bernie tries that, he's not going to have a chance in hell.

 

[SkyOdin]

I think you're looking for changes to global reality, not political policy. No single elected official is going to suddenly make you less threatening to the police, unless they can go back a couple decades and move your specific police officer into a better school with more progressive parents at home.

Racism is a systemic, human issue. That's not getting fixed in the next 4-8 years, probably not ever. At the very least Bernie is fighting the economic symptoms of racism. And that's as good as it gets right now.

There are structural elements of how various government institutions (such as the police) are set up and how laws are written that are directly leading to black people suffering. For example, just last year California voters changed laws for non-violent drug offenses from being able to be prosecuted as either felonies or misdemeanors to being prosecuted only as misdemeanors. This is a change that benefits minorities, since under the old rules, it was more likely for white people to be charged with a misdemeanor, and a black person to be charged with a felony, for the exact same crime. Removing that room for prosecutorial interpretation limits one way that racism can rear its ugly head. There are no doubt numerous other structural changes to organizations and law that can be made in order to combat the effects of racism and limit the damage it can do.

Just saying that there is nothing that can be done is rather defeatist. Improving the economic reality of this country would help everyone a lot, including black people, but there are other things that politicians can do too to help combat racism specifically. So I can understand where these protestors are coming from.

 

[Valhelm]

And this is the fundamental disconnect between white and black liberals. O'Malley's reforms are the types of policy that invariably lead to black people getting arrested for the smallest things and a police force that is taught to basically go into black neighborhoods and tear shit up. Bernie Sanders' belief that economic policy trumps everything else is why so many well-meaning liberal policies that address one aspect of life while completely ignoring race result in black people falling way behind everyone else. So sure, we may share the same stance on a lot of things but if you want to keep advocating for "colorblind" policy, all that does is ignore the elephant in the room that black people (and other minorities) have had to deal with for generations in this country. What good is increasing the minimum wage if the people hiring are throwing away job applications because someone's name is "too ethnic"? Why does it matter that the big banks are broken up if they're still giving unfair loans to non-white people? In Bernie's case, he supports a vast majority of the stuff that I support but I also have to live in a country where systemic racism is the norm and where simply changing policy is just putting a band-aid on the problem.

It's false to say that Bernie Sanders completely ignores "race stuff", though. He's been traditionally very cognizant of anti-black racismand has voted consistently for police demilitarization, prison reform, and increased protections on the working class. These three changes would benefit black people disproportionately,

The issue is that, because his economic positions are arguably more radical, other opinions get less coverage by the press and promotion by supporters. Bernie Sanders certainly has trouble appealing to African Americans, but it's not because his positions are in any way anti-black.

 

[ErasureAcer]

For one, I hugely disagree with him on PLCAA, he helped vote for the prevention of the closing of Gitmo, and his minority outreach has never been great. That last one he can improve on (though all this is a bad start). And that could have nasty effects on his ideas for universal economic policies.

I think the PLCAA on is a lost cause though, which may have affects on gun control.

And his ideas for police reform is much like what the rest of the candidates are asking for, but if he really wants to push Hillary, he needs to do more than that.

Like what? The anti-Bernie crowd is not being specific whatsoever. Kind of hard to have a discussion when you throw out generalities.

 

[werks]

For one, I hugely disagree with him on PLCAA, he helped vote for the prevention of the closing of Gitmo, and his minority outreach has never been great. That last one he can improve on (though all this is a bad start). And that could have nasty effects on his ideas for universal economic policies.

I think the PLCAA on is a lost cause though, which may have affects on gun control.


And his ideas for police reform is much like what the rest of the candidates are asking for, but if he really wants to push Hillary, he needs to do more than that.

So you listed three things, two that have nothing to do with #blacklivesmatter and the last one isn't a real policy.

 

[ErasureAcer]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

If you really think that's how it should go, then you've got some stuff to examine. This is classic, "Hey guys, they threw you a bone so shut up" paternalistic bullshit.

And if Bernie tries that, he's not going to have a chance in hell.

Alright. Well do whatever you want man. Hope your candidate(Bernie...you just don't know it yet) wins.

 

[dramatis]

You're implying that our education and policies are in a good enough state, then saying feminism isn't solved. I'd argue that they're not in a good enough place yet. Look at countries with a higher OECD education index, like Sweden and Norway. They have much better gender equality. Of course this isn't the only solution, and solving this won't solve the problem. I don't know how to solve racism or sexism, but increasing education and economic equality can't hurt. It's one of the larger causes of inequality for sure. And income inequality perpetuates structures that cause racial disparity. I don't know how one solves racism, but giving black people better opportunities to pull their lives out of the hole that decades of racism has stuck them in is a good step I think.

I already stated from the beginning that I think improvement on the economic side could help racial issues, but I don't think it's the solution to all racial issues.

Will economic progress change the operation of law enforcement in the US? Michael Brown was going to start college. Sandra Bland was going to start a new job. As far as we know they didn't have particular economic issues, yet one got shot to death by an officer and the other died in a jail cell, arrested for a minor traffic violation. Will economic progress correct the perception of blacks being drug dealing thugs, or dangerous 'inhumans' that require 20 men to hold down 1?

One size does not fit everything. Educational and economic opportunities are great, but they're not going to change problematic police behavior. They're not going to change how a recruiter will go with a "white sounding" name over a "black sounding" one. They're not going to stop people from discriminating against black people when they're buying cars or houses—or even voicing concerns.

So what actual positions do #BLM want Bernie Sanders to take that he doesn't already support. What policies should Sanders adopt that will directly impact the lives of african americans? Or what policies does Bernie Sanders currently support that will negatively impact minorities and is the reason for the #BLM protest.

Is there a comprehensive list of his policies regarding issues other than economics available anywhere? I found a bunch of articles talking about his avoidance of the race topic, and I'm aware that he was part of the civil rights movement in the 60s, but am left otherwise devoid of any other material about his positions on the subject.

Once again, Vox sums it up well:

A lot of people are very excited about Bernie Sanders's presidential campaign. It's not hard to figure out why: there are a lot of those progressives out there who are very concerned about economic inequality, the rise of the super-rich, the financial industry, and the role of money in American politics.

But there's a reason I say "those progressives" instead of just "progressives": because not everyone in the Democratic base shares those particular passions, or those passions alone. For other progressives — many of them black or Latino — economic inequality is important, but so is racial inequality. They're extremely concerned about racial bias in policing, and about ending mass incarceration. They're concerned about the treatment of unauthorized immigrants, and about protecting voting rights (an issue like campaign finance where progressives are worried the integrity of the political system is at stake — and where the outcome doesn't look good for them).

Bernie Sanders doesn't speak to those concerns. He didn't mention those issues in his campaign launch in May. They're not on the issues page of his website. And his appearance at Netroots Nation in July left many attendees frustrated: Sanders answered questions about racial issues by pivoting back to economic ones.

I do get that economics is his passion, but you don't go to Netroots to talk economics only.

 

[Subtle]

It seems people are complaining that they think Bernie isn't pushing the issues they feel are important to the forefront, despite him being very clear on the policies he wants to enact? I mean we already know where he stands on a myriad of issues important to African Americans, but the problem is he isn't vocalizing it enough, which just seems dumb to me. It's clear he is an ally and would enact policies that would help black people. Just because it's not what he's running on doesn't mean shit. As a Mexican American immigrant, I'm not complaining he hasn't been focusing on immigration policy. He's made his stance clear. Some people just want to throw a fit about everything it seems

 

[ArchedThunder]

There are structural elements of how various government institutions (such as the police) are set up and how laws are written that are directly leading to black people suffering. For example, just last year California voters changed laws for non-violent drug offenses from being able to be prosecuted as either felonies or misdemeanors to being prosecuted only as misdemeanors. This is a change that benefits minorities, since under the old rules, it was more likely for white people to be charged with a misdemeanor, and a black person to be charged with a felony, for the exact same crime. Removing that room for prosecutorial interpretation limits one way that racism can rear its ugly head. There are no doubt numerous other structural changes to organizations and law that can be made in order to combat the effects of racism and limit the damage it can do.

Just saying that there is nothing that can be done is rather defeatist. Improving the economic reality of this country would help everyone a lot, including black people, but there are other things that politicians can do too to help combat racism specifically. So I can understand where these protestors are coming from.

Bernie Sanders also wants a reform of the justice system with less of a focus on incarceration and wants to demilitarize police...

 

[Valhelm]

Did they just boo because he added 'white lives matter' after 'black lives matter'?

That's pretty gross...

They aren't booing because they think white loves don't matter. They're booing because, to some activists, phrases like "all lives matter" are a cop-out, because whites lives or Hispanic lives or Asian lives are less likely to be cut short by institutional brutality.

Bernie Sanders also wants a reform of the justice system with less of a focus on incarceration and wants to demilitarize police...

Which is why we, as Sanders supporters, ought to promote this. Far too many people have incorrect notions of Bernie Sanders "ignoring racism".

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

So you listed three things, two that have nothing to do with #blacklivesmatter and the last one isn't a real policy.

Gun control and the prison system are very important to #blacklivesmatter. Lets not act like racism has nothing to do with gitmo. And as a guy who's seen this happen in real time in education, policy without community outreach is sloppy policy. Especially when it's economic. And so far, his justice system related ideas and reforms aren't that far off of the other candidates, when he'd be much more appealing if went further than the rest.

I didn't state those things to satisfy your idea that only policy matters. I just stated some of the stuff (not all) that I disagree with him on. Which honestly is not the point being made here.

The point is that Bernie has not made minority (in this case, black) issues a focal point at a politically hot time. And for a guy with his track record, it's disappointing and should be easy to rectify.

But he's done the opposite. His supporters have done the opposite.

 

[nynt9]

I already stated from the beginning that I think improvement on the economic side could help racial issues, but I don't think it's the solution to all racial issues.

Will economic progress change the operation of law enforcement in the US? Michael Brown was going to start college. Sandra Bland was going to start a new job. As far as we know they didn't have particular economic issues, yet one got shot to death by an officer and the other died in a jail cell, arrested for a minor traffic violation. Will economic progress correct the perception of blacks being drug dealing thugs, or dangerous 'inhumans' that require 20 men to hold down 1?

One size does not fit everything. Educational and economic opportunities are great, but they're not going to change problematic police behavior. They're not going to change how a recruiter will go with a "white sounding" name over a "black sounding" one. They're not going to stop people from discriminating against black people when they're buying cars or houses—or even voicing concerns.

I agree, but one of the reasons prejudice against black people exists is because they are seen as criminals by racists, and improving the social standing of black people so that a significant amount of the population isn't in poverty and struggling, with no education and no way out of their shitty lives will also help improve public perception and make it harder for ignorant, racist views to take root in the next generation's eyes. I don't know how to solve the acute problem of police brutality on black people though. Bernie wants demilitarized police and less incarceration and that sounds like a good solution to me. Does it simply need to be framed in context of #BLM for that exact same policy to appease this group? I didn't grow up in America so my knowledge on certain issues is sometimes limited, which is why I come to these threads to learn.

 

[Subtle]

They aren't booing because they think white loves don't matter. They're booing because, to some activists, phrases like "all lives matter" are a cop-out, because whites lives or Hispanic lives or Asian lives are less likely to be cut short by institutional brutality.

Edit: my mistake read it wrong I agree with you

 

[A Link to the Past]

What some people don't seem to get is that Bernie Sanders is a pretty good candidate, and as such is by far the best candidate to protest. If they think that Sanders isn't doing enough to deal with issues that POC face in America, why shouldn't they speak up? Why should they have to only protest Republicans that don't think that racism even exists?

But doesn't "Black Lives Matter" exclude other minorities as well? It's strictly a black empowerment thing and doesn't factor in other minorities. They're booing because it depersonalizes the issue and takes the focus away from African Americans and includes white people in the picture.

The phrase "All Lives Matter" when used in response to "Black Lives Matter" is like responding to "Poor People Need Food" with "Everyone Needs Food". Obviously, everyone needs to eat. Unfortunately, many don't get to eat, and that many is universally made up by poor people. Obviously, white lives matter, but It isn't important to say this because it's already implicit in society.

 

[aeolist]

What some people don't seem to get is that Bernie Sanders is a pretty good candidate, and as such is by far the best candidate to protest. If they think that Sanders isn't doing enough to deal with issues that POC face in America, why shouldn't they speak up? Why should they have to only protest Republicans that don't think that racism even exists?

yeah, someone like him seems far more likely to respond to something like this and thus push it further toward the front of the conversation

my instinct is to defend him based on his record, but if he's focusing entirely on the economical side of things that's wrong and he needs to start bringing up race-specific policies again

 

[jay]

What is the "right" way to protest?

From your couch.

 

[Arkeband]

What some people don't seem to get is that Bernie Sanders is a pretty good candidate, and as such is by far the best candidate to protest. If they think that Sanders isn't doing enough to deal with issues that POC face in America, why shouldn't they speak up? Why should they have to only protest Republicans that don't think that racism even exists?



The phrase "All Lives Matter" when used in response to "Black Lives Matter" is like responding to "Poor People Need Food" with "Everyone Needs Food". Obviously, everyone needs to eat. Unfortunately, many don't get to eat, and that many is universally made up by poor people. Obviously, white lives matter, but It isn't important to say this because it's already implicit in society.

The problem with appealing to the candidate most likely to take the issue the furthest is that - outside of this circlejerk, and it's a circlejerk because we're all on the same side of this issue - it makes it seem like Bernie is somehow against the movement. Otherwise, why would they be protesting an ally?

It's inevitably going to confuse people, and the people who matter the most - the people who often vote against their best interest.