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[ramyeon]

I can understand thinking the worm hole is overboard, but your reasoning doesn't really jive well. Everything Mantis does is still physically impossible. Vamp running on water and up the side of a building is still impossible. Fortune deflecting missiles even after her tech is disabled is impossible. I think it's really just that the wormhole falls outside of the boundaries the MGS universe has created. It has people with supernatural abilities, and technology that is a few decades ahead of its time. However, it doesn't have futurama-level space scifi with worm holes. It falls outside the game's universe feel.

I find it a bit ridiculous because I think it'll break the illusion a bit every time I have to use that thing indoors later in the game. I'm not really annoyed by it though.

What boundaries? You mean the boundaries you made for the game yourself. I don't recall reading that Kojima has ever set any boundaries for the series. If it bothers you that much just think of the Wormholes as supernatural instead of technology since you seem fine with accepting supernatural elements!

Or you know, don't use them. Cause you don't have to.

 

[Alienous]

I can understand thinking the worm hole is overboard, but your reasoning doesn't really jive well. Everything Mantis does is still physically impossible. Vamp running on water and up the side of a building is still impossible. Fortune deflecting missiles even after her tech is disabled is impossible. I think it's really just that the wormhole falls outside of the boundaries the MGS universe has created. It has people with supernatural abilities, and technology that is a few decades ahead of its time. However, it doesn't have futurama-level space scifi with worm holes. It falls outside the game's universe feel.

I find it a bit ridiculous because I think it'll break the illusion a bit every time I have to use that thing indoors later in the game. I'm not really annoyed by it though.

Right, it doesn't really annoy me either. It's just another layer of goof that seems unnecessary, but hell, Kojima's going to Kojima.

It isn't even a 'suspension of disbelief' thing. It's just "We're warping reality (space-time) now? Uh, ok then, I guess". And to do it as part of FOB invasions just seems silly.

For instance the Zone of the Enders arm didn't even make me look twice until I thought about it just now. The wormholes just hit me as weird, even in the series.

 

[MiamiWesker]

I want to be in the alliance but I want to invade the alliance too. I am sure some of you will have the best bases.

Who was on the MGO crew I used to run with back in the MGS4 beta days? We had a match against Koji pro even.

 

[Sol1dus]

For me this confirms two things

1.

Spoiler

P.T. wasn't really cancelled. It's part of an ellaborate ruse and Konami/Kojima are some of the best marketers in the gaming industry once they reveal this was their plan all along.

2.

Spoiler

I will only be playing one game for the rest of the year

 

[Emedan]

I've always found the technological jump from MGS2 to 4 really jarring for some unexplainable reason. I get what it gripes you though, I can't really explain why MGS1 is so much less technologically advanced compared to Peace Walker and 5.

In regards to the wormhole speficially, i'm of the opinion that it is somehow related to Quiet's power (her teleportation looks fairly similar). I also look at all this stuff as things that Big Boss has invested his army into and I also like to believe that they keep it all top secret, hence why it doesn't really feature in the Solid Snake games. I mean, Mother Base was very secretive about Zeke when they thought they were going to have a nuclear inspection.

Far fetched, I know. It's the only way I can see MG1 and MG2 making sense though. Then again, I've always loved the game more so for it's themes as opposed to it's actual story. That's probably why MGS2 is still my favourite.

I'm not a big fan of her either But my point stands. MGS always had somewhat plausible technology with fantastical supernatural characters these characters could do things that defy logic, but the tech never did in the same sense. Making a wormhole fulton recovery is mixing these two elements together when I think having the technology somewhat in the realm or plausibility and reality was important for the players suspension of disbelief - cause we know what technology can and can not do, and possibly can and can not do, this is not an issue with Vampires and other fictional fantastical characters.

I'm going to stop you and say that the Wormholes are not part of a core mechanic in the game. The FOB stuff is totally supplementary to the main game and you don't have to touch it at all. The Wormhole Fulton stuff is something you can choose to just not upgrade if it bothers you all that much.

Psycho Mantis reading your memory card and discussing your taste in games, Snake turning up at the end of MGS2 with an unlimited ammo bandana etc. is perfectly fine but a Wormhole mechanic in order to explain a multiplayer mode designed to add hours upon hours of entertainment to the game isn't? Okay. You can feel that way, but to say this is not in keeping with the spirit of the series is just disingenuous.

Oh, so it's okay to fight a giant dinosaur/dragon hybrid from Monster Hunter as long as you're using real world weapons to do so. I see.

I dunno man. Maybe warping the fabric of reality is their supernatural power how is that more unbelievable than any of the other shit that happens in MGS? Seriously.

For the reason why I dislike this direction in MGS5 I refer to my answer above. Regarding the rest; well the unlimited ammo skit was just a quirky Kojima moment and a callback, let's call it fan service (but that too I felt was kinda out of place).

You have to understand that with wormholes specifically we know mathematically that they exist, or can exist, the amount of energy to open one though and keep it open is so massive that it's just TOO far away, it's too little science and too much fiction.

 

[gdt]

Interesting, not sure if this was known but apparently the review event is only 4 days long (something like Watch Dogs had 8 days for comparison). Reviewers can't keep their saves, seems a feeling of not being able to see most of what the game has to offer is concerning, at least from someone I talk to. Using the 2-day May preview event as a frame of reference, some journos didn't get past 10% completion lol.

Review event is from the 18th to 21st.

This doesn't sound good at all.

 

[RyanardoDaVinci]

You mean like the time a deceased Liquid possessed Ocelot through his arm? Which in a later game was explained to be Ocelot brainwashing himself?

No, Liquid did possess Ocelot.

But after MGS2, Ocelot cut the arm off and then brainwashed himself to believe he was Liquid so he could fool the Patriots.

For reals.

 

[gdt]

You mean like the time a deceased Liquid possessed Ocelot through his arm? Which in a later game was explained to be Ocelot brainwashing himself?

This still cracks me up.

 

[Ephemeris]

this is the one.

 

[MiamiWesker]

Right, it doesn't really annoy me either. It's just another layer of goof that seems unnecessary, but hell, Kojima's going to Kojima.

It isn't even a 'suspension of disbelief' thing. It's just "We're warping reality (space-time) now? Uh, ok then, I guess".

I don't see it as a real wormhole, I don't it will see any use outside a way to fulton with no ballon. That's all it is. I guess they said well what would be an advanced Fulton system, one where there is no ballon to pop, well how can we do this and they went a bit goofy. In terms of gameplay it changes very little, it's just a super Fulton. There will probably be some super silly explaination as to why it can only be used certain ways. I doubt the end of the game involves boss using portals to escape a metal gear.

 

[gdt]

No, Liquid did possess Ocelot.

But after MGS2, Ocelot cut the arm off and then brainwashed himself to believe he was Liquid so he could fool the Patriots.

For reals.

I don't think your first sentence is correct.

Liquid never possessed anything....as he was dead at the time. It was always Ocelot....brainwashing himself.

 

[Oni3298]

I want to be in the alliance but I want to invade the alliance too. I am sure some of you will have the best bases.

Who was on the MGO crew I used to run with back in the MGS4 beta days? We had a match against Koji pro even.

That's where sanctioned invasions can take place! Purely for sport of course.

DON'T TOUCH MY STUFF!

 

[Emedan]

I don't see it as a real wormhole, I don't it will see any use outside a way to fulton with no ballon. That's all it is. I guess they said well what would be an advanced Fulton system, one where there is no ballon to pop, well how can we do this and they went a bit goofy. In terms of gameplay it changes very little, it's just a super Fulton. There will probably be some super silly explaination as to why it can only be used certain ways. I doubt the end of the game involves boss using portals to escape a metal gear.

Which is exactly my point, was such a minuscule (gameplay wise) change necessary when it made the game "goofy" and damages the integrity?

 

[MiamiWesker]

I don't think your first sentence is correct.

Liquid never possessed anything....as he was dead at the time. It was always Ocelot....brainwashing himself.

I think he means that during MGS2 that was the explaination. And with ocelots voice turning into liquids I am pretty sure that is what kojima intended. Then with mgs4 he decided to change it.

 

[nillapuddin]

holy shit.
this game.

 

[Alienous]

No, Liquid did possess Ocelot.

But after MGS2, Ocelot cut the arm off and then brainwashed himself to believe he was Liquid so he could fool the Patriots.

For reals.

And even that sort of works with the already established series McGuffin, that being the existence of supernatural/spiritual beings.

I think I remember the MGS4 Database talking about

Spoiler

Ocelot being the son of The Sorrow meaning that he had a some way of interacting with the supernatural, and that being the conduit by which Liquid took over.

Heck, I'm pretty sure the MGS2 Digital Comic addressed that in a scene.

Warping reality is just another McGuffin, and you can only really have one (one element that differs from real life possibility) before things start to appear silly. I think that's the 'issue' I'm having with the wormhole.

Maybe you get to select your invasion method, and teleportation was just one of them. I'd be more ok with that.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Which is exactly my point, was such a minuscule (gameplay wise) change necessary when it made the game "goofy" and damages the integrity?

it's about ethics in the Metal Gear Solid series?

I can't believe people are freaking out about Wormholes. This is the same series where infinite ammo and invisibility and robot ninjas are normal happenstance. I mean..................really.

That's where sanctioned invasions can take place! Purely for sport of course.

DON'T TOUCH MY STUFF!

Let's be friends on PSN :^) So I can 'visit'.

 

[RyanardoDaVinci]

I don't think your first sentence is correct.

Liquid never possessed anything....as he was dead at the time. It was always Ocelot....brainwashing himself.

The official MGS4 database says otherwise.

They should've just left Liquid possessing Ocelot and used the perfectly good explanation of Ocelot's dad.

You know, The Sorrow, the dude that could talk to the dead when he was alive and haunted all around Russia when he was dead.

But no, Kojima gonna Kojima.

 

[Darsis]

Characters performing supernatural feats aren't like warping the fabric of reality, at least to me.

If a character turned Snake into a banana my reaction would be "What?". If someone froze and rewound time I would similarly think "What?". Teleportation via wormholes is sort of in that realm. It isn't humans doing something that humans don't usually do, but (for instance) electric eels or water striders might. Or spiritual weirdness. It's doing things that are physically impossible.

Teleportation is a pretty big McGuffin to have as just an aside.

I have always thought the misgivings people had with the tech in the series were funny. Now, whether or not it is a problem is up to you and you have a right to your opinion, but for me the thought of tech being at a realistic level went out the door with the Soliton Radar being made from "existing technology". The tech and supernatural parts of metal gear have just fit into the setting that is the metal gear universe, for me any how.

The super out there stuff, like the wormhole and the the stealth gun are fine to me in the area of over the top end game unlocks, much like the infinite headband. The goofball stuff never gets in the way of the story for me as most of it is unlocked after the main story. If it is a problem for you, you can just ignore it, and if that does not work... this game will just drop a few points in your mind. I just hope something like this does not ruin the game for people.

 

[ramyeon]

And even that sort of works with the already established series McGuffin, that being the existence of supernatural/spiritual beings.

I think I remember the MGS4 Database talking about

Spoiler

Ocelot being the son of The Sorrow meaning that he had a some way of interacting with the supernatural, and that being the conduit by which Liquid took over.

Heck, I'm pretty sure the MGS2 Digital Comic addressed that in a scene.

Warping reality is just another McGuffin, and you can only really have one (one element that differs from real life possibility) before things start to appear silly. I think that's the 'issue' I'm having with the wormhole.

Maybe you get to select your invasion method, and teleportation was just one of them. I'd be more ok with that.

Why not just think of warping reality as a supernatural power if that makes it easier to digest?

It blows my mind that we're caught up on this when there's so much awesome shit in this demo.

 

[RK9039]

I have good news for you. It's out in like 4 weeks.

HOLY SHIT.

I can't believe it's almost here, the wait was intense. Since 2012, probably even before with all the rumours and Project Ogre stuff.

Damn.

I think he means that during MGS2 that was the explaination. And with ocelots voice turning into liquids I am pretty sure that is what kojima intended. Then with mgs4 he decided to change it.

Yup. Liquid definitely did possess Ocelot during MGS2, and people think it's because Ocelot is The Sorrow's son. But then MGS4 happened.

 

[swearing-circle]

And even that sort of works with the already established series McGuffin, that being the existence of supernatural/spiritual beings.

I think I remember the MGS4 Database talking about

Spoiler

Ocelot being the son of The Sorrow meaning that he had a some way of interacting with the supernatural, and that being the conduit by which Liquid took over.

Heck, I'm pretty sure the MGS2 Digital Comic addressed that in a scene.

Warping reality is just another McGuffin, and you can only really have one (one element that differs from real life possibility) before things start to appear silly. I think that's the 'issue' I'm having with the wormhole.

Maybe you get to select your invasion method, and teleportation was just one of them. I'd be more ok with that.

I don't think the invasion method is via teleportation. As there is a countdown timer before the defenders mother base shuts down sea entry if i recall. So i'm guessing infiltration is via boat or sub? Also, in MGO the teleportation is all based around a device that the player has to set down. So i'm pretty sure all the wormhole stuff is developed due to Quiet's supernatural powers.

 

[Toparaman]

And even that sort of works with the already established series McGuffin, that being the existence of supernatural/spiritual beings.

I think I remember the MGS4 Database talking about

Spoiler

Ocelot being the son of The Sorrow meaning that he had a some way of interacting with the supernatural, and that being the conduit by which Liquid took over.

Heck, I'm pretty sure the MGS2 Digital Comic addressed that in a scene.

Warping reality is just another McGuffin, and you can only really have one (one element that differs from real life possibility) before things start to appear silly. I think that's the 'issue' I'm having with the wormhole.

Maybe you get to select your invasion method, and teleportation was just one of them. I'd be more ok with that.

i think i get you. but mgs4 made it clear that kojima's world-building skills are poor. i just don't take any of it seriously at this point.

 

[Oni3298]

it's about ethics in the Metal Gear Solid series?

I can't believe people are freaking out about Wormholes. This is the same series where infinite ammo and invisibility and robot ninjas are normal happenstance. I mean..................really.



Let's be friends on PSN :^) So I can 'visit'.

Agreed. I don't really understand why peeps be freakin yo.

Ha. My PSN is the same as my Gaf name. Just be warned, I'll 'visit' you right back and make you regret it. xP

 

[fluffydelusions]

This game boyz

 

[ramyeon]

I don't think the invasion method is via teleportation. As there is a countdown timer before the defenders mother base shuts down sea entry if i recall. So i'm guessing infiltration is via boat or sub? Also, in MGO the teleportation is all based around a device that the player has to set down. So i'm pretty sure all the wormhole stuff is developed due to Quiet's supernatural powers.

During the invasion there was a marker on the defender's FOB that said "Wormhole" and was shaped like a cylindrical object. I will try to find it and screencap it. It is obviously a way of explaining the possibility of there being two Snakes in the same place at the same time fighting each other.

 

[giancarlo123x]

I've learned today people hate fun.

 

[viHuGi]

Cant wait, MGS Story is another level, boss fights are insane aswel !!!

Almost there

 

[Slowdive]

Interesting, not sure if this was known but apparently the review event is only 4 days long (something like Watch Dogs had 8 days for comparison). Reviewers can't keep their saves, seems a feeling of not being able to see most of what the game has to offer is concerning, at least from someone I talk to. Using the 2-day May preview event as a frame of reference, some journos didn't get past 10% completion lol.

Review event is from the 18th to 21st.

I'm pretty sure there was an event in London the other week for reviews, I'm not certain but I think that was 4 days too. I could be wrong though.

 

[Alienous]

Why not just think of warping reality as a supernatural power if that makes it easier to digest?

It blows my mind that we're caught up on this when there's so much awesome shit in this demo.

I discussed the awesome shit. Now I'm discussing my gripes.

The wormhole, especially for the Mother Base infiltration (looking at the map and seeing 'Wormhole') just seems needlessly goofy.

I'm not saying the game sucks, or anything. Just that it honestly hit me as a weird thing. Your actual troops are being killed/taken. Your actual resources are being stolen. By a person who arrived on your Forward Operating Base via a wormhole. It's like "hmm".

But as I said before Kojima gonna goof, I suppose.

 

[swearing-circle]

Also, in regards to Ocelot being possessed by Liquid i'm pretty sure the only reason why Kojima changed it in MGS4 to be more "plausible" was because of fan outcry at how ridiculous the original reasoning was.

It's a shame, MGS3 never states that Ocelot has the powers because of the Sorrow. It's down to the player to make that judgement based on the information presented and I always liked that. I hate how Kojima felt the need to appease fans and explain supernatural elements such as Ocelot's possession and Vamp's vampiric abilities to nano-machines. Also, it was disappointed that Kojima didn't stick to his guns and carry out his original MGS4 ending.

Nevertheless, this is exactly why MGS5 has me so hyped. Kojima is doing what he wants to do and he's not really giving us much to go on. He's not buckling under fan outcry either and as much as I miss Hayter, i'm glad Kojima is sticking to his vision for the game.

I'm expecting MGS2 level greatness.

During the invasion there was a marker on the defender's FOB that said "Wormhole" and was shaped like a cylindrical object. I will try to find it and screencap it. It is obviously a way of explaining the possibility of there being two Snakes in the same place at the same time fighting each other.

Ah, well that explains it then really lol. Although, we haven't actually seen 2 snakes fighting eachother thus far and if you remember Peace Walker's advertisement it showed multiple snakes together but in game, any other player using Snake appeared as a grunt with a balaclava to the player character.

I'm not saying you're not right because honestly, I think you are. Just throwing out another potential theory.

 

[ramyeon]

I don't think the invasion method is via teleportation. As there is a countdown timer before the defenders mother base shuts down sea entry if i recall. So i'm guessing infiltration is via boat or sub? Also, in MGO the teleportation is all based around a device that the player has to set down. So i'm pretty sure all the wormhole stuff is developed due to Quiet's supernatural powers.

Incursion point is wormhole.

Like I said, it's multiplayer stuff that is done to explain there being two Snakes. The narration said that they could have used Snake to defend even though the attacker was Snake as well.

 

[Taco Tuesday]

Well goodbye what little free time I have. I'll probably be finishing with the witcher when this drops then I probably won't get another game till fallout. I loved mgo but these one on one infiltrations look fucking awesome. I can't wait for this game. I'm using bears and tigers instead of human guards.

 

[swearing-circle]

Incursion point is wormhole.

Like I said, it's multiplayer stuff that is done to explain there being two Snakes. The narration said that they could have used Snake to defend even though the attacker was Snake as well.

Sorry, edited my post to include your post before seeing this. Well, that explains it :') I do wonder what the countdown timer is for though.

EDIT: Thank you for going through the effort to screenshot it for me

 

[Kard8p3]

I have good news for you. It's out in like 4 weeks.

HOLY SHIT.

that shit is too far away.

someone freeze me please

 

[RangerBAD]

Didn't PW have multiple instances of Snake in co-op?

 

[swearing-circle]

Didn't PW have multiple instances of Snake in co-op?

Nah, only in the trailer. In game any other player that wasn't you using Snake appeared as a normal grunt.

 

[ColourRevolt]

Ho-ly SHIT! I am more than overwhelmed with excitement for this game.

 

[Alienous]

Didn't PW have multiple instances of Snake in co-op?

Each player would see the other players as not-Snake.

 

[RangerBAD]

Nah, only in the trailer. In game any other player that wasn't you using Snake appeared as a normal grunt.

Each player would see the other players as not-Snake.

Oh, I couldn't remember.

 

[ezekial45]

new pic from Kojima's twitter:

https://twitter.com/Kojima_Hideo/status/629091392669642752

 

[ramyeon]

new pic from Kojima's twitter:

https://twitter.com/Kojima_Hideo/status/629091392669642752

I think Snake needs a shower.

 

[SinShep]

The FOB PvP looks fun as hell, but outside of this demo's choreographed fight, I'm worrying how many conflicts will just end up with the defender being really aggressive and killing the invader almost the instant he finds him, having the ability to redeploy and all.

 

[Kard8p3]

new pic from Kojima's twitter:

https://twitter.com/Kojima_Hideo/status/629091392669642752

I wonder what that arm does..

 

[Insertia]

looks EPIC.

 

[Crypt]

Or you know, don't use them. Cause you don't have to.

I'm really getting tired of hearing this as a defense for any criticism of any part of this game. I follow news about MGSV religiously, and any time someone brings up something they don't like, everyone just jumps to this "well don't use it then" response. I didn't say the feature was causing me cancer. I expressed how I thought it was a bit ridiculous. I'll still use the mechanic because I'm sure I'll have fun with it, but there's no need to respond with this cheap-ass discussion-ender every time someone expresses their distaste for a particular game mechanic.

 

[fade_]

dat home base music

 

[swearing-circle]

The FOB PvP looks fun as hell, but outside of this demo's choreographed fight, I'm worrying how many conflicts will just end up with the defender being really aggressive and killing the invader almost the instant he finds him, having the ability to redeploy and all.

Yeah, that's one of my main concerns. I'm hoping that the size of motherbase and the ability to stealth the whole situation will play into the infiltrator's favour. Also, I feel that the defender should not be notified that they're being invaded until the invader has been spotted. It'll give more incentive to actually upgrade your FOB's security.

The biggest concern of mine though, is whether or not the defender could literally camp by the goal point? I feel there should be a few goal points for the invader. Just spread them out really far.

 

[RangerBAD]

I'm sort of surprised that Kojima didn't use a Terminator entrance for invaders.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I uhhhh.... Didn't know I could get more excited for this game. Well, there it is.