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[terrible]

Yea, it an advantage with dynamic weather. But when the weather is "wet", one actually has proper puddles and car reaction, and the other just applies a universal handling modifier... which had to even be patched in order for even that to apply to the AI. PCars isn't even competitive with PGR4 and Sega Rally Revo for wet weather.

It still feels like the AI has way more grip in the rain than me. I lose several seconds per lap and it's business as usual for them when rain starts. PCars does a lot of things right but the AI at times needs work.

It sounds like rain will be a bit more life-like in Forza 6 but I have to say the puddles are kind of a gimmick. They'd call off most races in real life if huge puddles started forming I bet lol. That's kind of what Forza is about though I guess. Doing things you'd never do in real life but with realistic physics.

 

[TheAdmiester]

It still feels like the AI has way more grip in the rain than me. I lose several seconds per lap and it's business as usual for them when rain starts. PCars does a lot of things right but the AI at times needs work.

It sounds like rain will be a bit more life-like in Forza 6 but I have to say the puddles are kind of a gimmick. They'd call off most races in real life if huge puddles started forming I bet lol. That's kind of what Forza is about though I guess. Doing things you'd never do in real life but with realistic physics.

I think in England we actually embrace the weather in most races since it's all you get here.

BTCC and so on are known for being very hardened, as with just about any race on an English track.

 

[M52B28]

I think you give FM2 a bit to much credit, you seem to praise it as the last good Forza while overlooking all its shortcomings.

I think I do

It does have many shortcomings, but it was, to me, the last FM that was just straight forward simulation racing. That's one reason why I give it credit. I mainly wish that FM stayed on that track instead of venturing off into the car collection stuff that some have mentioned in this thread, and throwing mounds of credits at players

Really, it seems like T10 is simply experimenting with the FM series now with the removal of the storefront, auction house, and other things. What I really want is consistency. Every time I come back to FM, I come back to see that things have drastically changed.

As for the audio I haven't played 3 or 4 recently to give an accurate comparison, but 5 is leaps and bounds above anything they were doing on the 360.

FM3 sounds like a mix between FM2 and FM4 - and for context, FM4 was very, very exaggerated in terms of sound.

Here's a little video I found. It shows the sound differences fairly well, but the car in FM5 is only the Viper ACR.

 

[Fox Mulder]

No need to act like I killed your mother.

wet weather? PCars
track count? Pcars
Sound? Pcars
handlind options ? pcars
view? pcars


Forza is not the end all and be all and its amazing to see how far a crowed funded game has come when compared to the guys at the top. Im sure forza will be great but its not leaps and bounds better than what is available. And when you have a 2015 line up that would kill anyones social life some things need to be cut for some people and its unfortunate its this game for ME for NOW.

Pcars was made with a lot of neat things in mind, while Turn 10 made the decision to be 60 fps. They're just different philosophies and can coexist.

I stepped away from Pcars a bit from bugs, but I also wish it had better racing regulations. No one seems to nail this anymore, even the F1 game is lacking there.

 

[moered6]

I think I do

It does have many shortcomings, but it was, to me, the last FM that was just straight forward simulation racing. That's one reason why I give it credit. I mainly wish that FM stayed on that track instead of venturing off into the car collection stuff that some have mentioned in this thread, and throwing mounds of credits at players

Really, it seems like T10 is simply experimenting with the FM series now with the removal of the storefront, auction house, and other things. What I really want is consistency. Every time I come back to FM, I come back to see that things have drastically changed.

FM3 sounds like a mix between FM2 and FM4 - and for context, FM4 was very, very exaggerated in terms of sound.

Here's a little video I found. It shows the sound differences fairly well, but the car in FM5 is only the Viper ACR.

over-exageration much, also there is nothing stopping you from play 4 if all you want is the exact same thing

 

[M52B28]

over-exageration much

Eh, I guess you can say so? I'm mainly mentioning the Storefront and Auction House. Two otherwise great systems traded for something 'better'. I was shocked to see that it wasn't returning in FM5.

I don't mind change, so that comment is invalidated if you're telling me to stick with FM4.

 

[soundscream]

Eh, I guess you can say so? I'm mainly mentioning the Storefront and Auction House. Two otherwise great systems traded for something 'better'. I was shocked to see that it wasn't returning in FM5.

I don't mind change, so that comment is invalidated if you're telling me to stick with FM4.

Auction house was not that big a deal, and I'm kind of glad its gone. The storefront was kind of crazy seeing what they did. Not having to pay for tunes or designs was a great idea to get people looking for the work people are doing. But not paying the people unless they have 100 people using it on a single day was madness.

I have some designs that have 500 downloads but I've only gotten paid once for my work (Christmas day 2014). I never overcharged for my work, I did the minimum 1000 Cr and that's 500,000 Cr I never got because of the new system. It kind of killed my desire to create designs if I wasn't going to get anything from it.

 

[SalientChief]

The main thing that PCars has that I wish Forza would implement is the helmet cam (or at least some more movement when using the cockpit camera). Adds so much to the immersion factor, for me.

 

[Lettuce]

Why the hell people complain about the music? Love music in Forza 5 and I really hoped it will stay the same in FM6 and I'm glad it did. If you want normal music then use your own custom soundtrack, dramatic music is awesome

Thing with the custom soundtrack feature is the music just constantly plays, shame the feature inst intelligent enough to stop the current track when a race ends and then change to another track on the menu screen and then change again when another race starts, just like it would for the developed music tracks for the game

 

[Klocker]

The main thing that PCars has that I wish Forza would implement is the helmet cam (or at least some more movement when using the cockpit camera). Adds so much to the immersion factor, for me.

Yes it does not look as if they improved on that from F5, which wasn't bad but pcars does cockpit movement better imo

 

[JackAubrey]

The main thing that PCars has that I wish Forza would implement is the helmet cam (or at least some more movement when using the cockpit camera). Adds so much to the immersion factor, for me.

Yes that's the one thing I'd like to keep from PCars and put into Forza. A bit of lean and look to apex really brings the cockpit view alive.

 

[soundscream]

I don't care about the movement, but I would like a dash cam like DC has. Right above the wheel but not quite hood cam.

 

[Klocker]

Or god forbid they give us options to have more or less movement in cockpit ...

But maybe it's tied down to guarantee that 6fps

 

[Bobnob]

Pcars has built in traction, between the two F5 and Pcars, Pcars is defenatly easier with no assist, i don't see Pcars as a true sim. For me its a simcade.

Forza will have

Better online modes
1080p 60fps locked
New 70hr career

60fps in the rain,static i know but i'd rather that than that unstable mess pcars
Cleaner ui

 

[erale]

Pcars has built in traction, between the two F5 and Pcars, Pcars is defenatly easier with no assist, i don't see Pcars as a true sim. For me its a simcade.

Well no grip/traction doesn't mean realistic either...

 

[Lug Nuts]

Pcars has built in traction, between the two F5 and Pcars, Pcars is defenatly easier with no assist, i don't see Pcars as a true sim. For me its a simcade.

Forza will have

Better online modes
1080p 60fps locked
New 70hr career

60fps in the rain,static i know but i'd rather that than that unstable mess pcars
Cleaner ui

Just because PCARS has more grip doesn't make it more arcade, cars in real life especially race cars have lots of grip, Forza 5 has way too little grip compared to reality, even 4 was more accurate in that regard.

 

[leeh]

No need to act like I killed your mother.

wet weather? PCars
track count? Pcars
Sound? Pcars
handlind options ? pcars
view? pcars


Forza is not the end all and be all and its amazing to see how far a crowed funded game has come when compared to the guys at the top. Im sure forza will be great but its not leaps and bounds better than what is available. And when you have a 2015 line up that would kill anyones social life some things need to be cut for some people and its unfortunate its this game for ME for NOW.

I was really looking forward to pCars, like really, picked it up and thought the physics and the handling model was a crock of horse shit.

Its unresponsive, unpredictable, clunky and its got nothing on Forza's 360hz physics.

So yeah, add all the features you want, but if youve got a sim which often drops from 60 and has a physics model which isnt that great to start with, which also drops from 60. Youve got a bad sim game.

All opinion of course.

 

[Lug Nuts]

I was really looking forward to pCars, like really, picked it up and thought the physics and the handling model was a crock of horse shit.

Its unresponsive, unpredictable, clunky and its got nothing on Forza's 360hz physics.

All opinion of course.

Did you play with a controller? Because it really does suck with a pad, they did a bad job there, T10 nail the pad gameplay.

 

[leeh]

Did you play with a controller? Because it really does suck with a pad, they did a bad job there, T10 nail the pad gameplay.

I do play with a controller. I dont have the space for a real set-up as much as I'd love to buy one :/

 

[soundscream]

Well no grip/traction doesn't mean realistic either...

Its a bit to much grip IMO. I have to do a whole lot less throttle modulation with PC, from road to race cars I don't have a fear of it stepping out on me if I hit the pedal to much. Something I have to be aware of constantly in the higher HP cars in Forza. Jumping from game to game fucks me up for a few laps because I end up not pushing it enough in PC and spinning out in Forza.

 

[LoveCake]

I loved Gran Turismo 1 (i still have my copy & the disc still smells of the rubber smell they put on the disc) GT2 & GT3 were also good, i didn't like GT4 & i hated GT5 (like a fool with more money than sense i got the Signature Edition (my most regretted game purchase ever).

On my Xbox i got Forza as i really like racing games & it was great, & so was F2, F3 & F4 i got my X1 late so was behind on F5 & it isn't as good as the previous incarnations, but it's still good.

I have had a few racing games on my PC & i had Pcars on PS4 but i traded it in yesterday (for funds for Forza 6) now Pcars is a very good game, but like the GT games (other than GT1) i just didn't enjoy it as much as i do the Forza games.

I will never forget playing Gran Turismo 1 one night, i was doing the last race on the Special Stage 11 i was in my yellow Mitsubishi GTO LM Edition on soft tires & they gave me the edge to pull out enough of a lead so i could pit & come out in-front of the Toyota GT Ones that were on the hard tires so could do twice as many laps as me on the soft's, the adrenalin was pumping as the laps rolled down & i knew i was going to win & when i crossed the line in first place i just sat back in my chair & relaxed after the race of my life, i have never been in a real car race, but what i felt that night is what i imagine it would feel like for real (more more intense in real life though) i felt like Jezza here (at the end of the race) top gear enters britcar 24 hour endurance race i just wish there was a racing game now that could give that same feeling as that final race, i never played Gran Turismo 1 after that as i had completed it & i just needed to win that final race.

I have the most fun playing the Forza games, i know they are not as sim like as Pcars or Real Racing 3 & Gran Turismo has more sim like options, but they just don't have that same feeling for me like Forza does, the original GRID Motorsport as did RAGE Racer also had a similar feeling, it just made you (me) want to play more.

Arguing over which racing game is best is pointless as people like racing games for different reasons, some people like tweaking & setting up cars & there are people like me that will just drive hard & fast & go beyond the limits, sideways round the corners, & crossing the finish line in first place with a smashed up car with my hair on fire (Top Gear style).

Off topic but this is the best car in any racing game ever.

 

[JackAubrey]

Oh how I loved the first Gran Turismo. I would do lap after lap of Special Stage 11.

After reading the review of the Japanese version in Edge I knew I had to have it. Paid through the nose for an import, had to chip my PlayStation and buy a new TV with an RGB input. But it was worth it. The game came along in a part of my life where I could devote hours to it every day.

 

[Pound_lb003]

The one thing I adore about Gran Turismo that Forza slowly seems to be taking on, is that really planar, behind-the-car camera.

It's a really small FOV and it makes the vanishing point so far off in the distance that the design of the car almost looks like it does on paper.

I love that so much.

 

[danowat]

Just played FM5 for the first time in a while, forgotten just how OP the brakes were, you only have to touch the trigger and your nose if touching the windscreen, hope they fix that in FM6.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Playing F5 again too, don't want to see gameplay cameras mixed in with TV replays any more, it's cheap and looks shit at 30fps.

 

[Mascot]

Pcars has built in traction, between the two F5 and Pcars, Pcars is defenatly easier with no assist, i don't see Pcars as a true sim. For me its a simcade.

Aw, come on. That's nonsense.

 

[SparksBCN]

Track count is the only advantage I will give PC

If you look only at the numbers, yes. If you take in account how Project CARS and Forza do their tracks, Forza has the advantage. Is very easy to have lots of tracks when you don't put a foot on them and just rely on videos and pictures (from the internet) to recreate them. instead of sending a team of people to capture the track and take visual references.

Some of the tracks in pCARS have very serious inaccuracies that were reported several times on the WMD forums but made their way to the game regardless.

And before someone mentions it, yes, I know that the four MSV tracks are laser-scanned, those are the only tracks where they got accurate data and references.

 

[erale]

Just played FM5 for the first time in a while, forgotten just how OP the brakes were, you only have to touch the trigger and your nose if touching the windscreen, hope they fix that in FM6.

It's been like that since Forza 2 or even the first one. Doubt they'll ever fix that. Also I find out even worse with a wheel and pedals. Sometimes I wonder why Microsoft is even bothering with wheel support when they can't get it right on their flagship title. And still every year Dan talks about how important physics are...

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

If we're talking about stuff we want brought over from Project Cars I'd like the option for "real" assists.

 

[Bobnob]

Aw, come on. That's nonsense.

I mean it man,Project cars with assists is arcadey as hell, i know guys that were good at grid that are equally good at Pcars but not very good at forza. Without assists built in traction but so much slower, stm and abs on are so much quicker. You might argue that assist on should be quicker but all assist off its easy but slower thats the only effect i notice. No locking No tcs loss no stability loss.

Sms filled our heads with nothing but sim this sim that bullshit imo

Tcs off, slower but no real loss of traction or sense off
Abs off, slower but no lock ups or sense off

 

[Terbinator]

I mean it man,Project cars with assists is arcadey as hell

Well of course it is, the rest of the "but" in your post is nonsense.

 

[Mascot]

I mean it man,Project cars with assists is arcadey as hell, i know guys that were good at grid that are equally good at Pcars but not very good at forza. Without assists built in traction but so much slower, stm and abs on are so much quicker. You might argue that assist on should be quicker but all assist off its easy but slower thats the only effect i notice. No locking No tcs loss no stability loss.

Sms filled our heads with nothing but sim this sim that bullshit imo

Tcs off, slower but no real loss of traction or sense off
Abs off, slower but no lock ups or sense off

Are you playing with a joypad?

 

[danowat]

I mean it man,Project cars with assists is arcadey as hell, i know guys that were good at grid that are equally good at Pcars but not very good at forza. Without assists built in traction but so much slower, stm and abs on are so much quicker. You might argue that assist on should be quicker but all assist off its easy but slower thats the only effect i notice. No locking No tcs loss no stability loss.

Sms filled our heads with nothing but sim this sim that bullshit imo

Tcs off, slower but no real loss of traction or sense off
Abs off, slower but no lock ups or sense off

Lol!

 

[0racle]

This game will be good, don't get me wrong but I wish they were a little more aggressive. You can't come out boasting about static weather, static puddles, static night on only a handful of tracks when other racers do it dynamically with a higher track count.

Why not have torrential rain and weather like the horizon 2 expansion?

Why not have winter and snow? Black ice? Freezing rain? Dew filled morning races? High winds that affect handling? Overcast night? Clear nights with the moon lighting the track.


There is so many options and possibilities and its just sad to see the game is marked on these new features when they are lackluster at best.

I'm referring to presentation wise, not handling or ai races in these situations. Simply how the game looks.

 

[Bobnob]

Are you playing with a joypad?

Yes

 

[moered6]

This game will be good, don't get me wrong but I wish they were a little more aggressive. You can't come out boasting about static weather, static puddles, static night on only a handful of tracks when other racers do it dynamically with a higher track count.

Why not have torrential rain and weather like the horizon 2 expansion?

Why not have winter and snow? Black ice? Freezing rain? Dew filled morning races? High winds that affect handling? Overcast night? Clear nights with the moon lighting the track.


There is so many options and possibilities and its just sad to see the game is marked on these new features when they are lackluster at best.

I'm referring to presentation wise, not handling or ai races in these situations. Simply how the game looks.

Way to marginilise features that are actutally done with percision, rain that actually behaves realistictly and. ALL tracks that are actually matching their real life counter part


And please list a game on consoles that does all those at smooth 1080 60

 

[Noobcraft]

This game will be good, don't get me wrong but I wish they were a little more aggressive. You can't come out boasting about static weather, static puddles, static night on only a handful of tracks when other racers do it dynamically with a higher track count.

Why not have torrential rain and weather like the horizon 2 expansion?

Why not have winter and snow? Black ice? Freezing rain? Dew filled morning races? High winds that affect handling? Overcast night? Clear nights with the moon lighting the track.


There is so many options and possibilities and its just sad to see the game is marked on these new features when they are lackluster at best.

I'm referring to presentation wise, not handling or ai races in these situations. Simply how the game looks.

No other game has done dynamic weather/time of day at a smooth 60 fps. Project Cars has awful menus. Project Cars has a very limited car roster and many of the cars are imitation vehicles. Project Cars has frequent screentearing and a variable framerate (especially on Xbox One). PCars has glitchy physics that sometimes ruin races. It feels unfinished and likely will for the lifetime of the game because the devs don't seem to care.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

Pcars has built in traction, between the two F5 and Pcars, Pcars is defenatly easier with no assist, i don't see Pcars as a true sim. For me its a simcade.

Well no grip/traction doesn't mean realistic either...

Its a bit to much grip IMO. I have to do a whole lot less throttle modulation with PC, from road to race cars I don't have a fear of it stepping out on me if I hit the pedal to much. Something I have to be aware of constantly in the higher HP cars in Forza.

As Danowat said, the PCARS lap times, even for tracks with some 1st gear corners, hold up to reality really well in GT cars and even F1. The adhesion-effect in racing-grade tyres is probably more off in Forza, whereas road-legal tyres are way overdone in PCARS.

I compared it in road cars for logitudinal grip (video) and lateral grip (video) but posted the comparison only on the PCARS forum so far.


Now if you consider that the lateral grip is very similar in both games and also that PCARS' lap times hold up quite well, we have to assume that the longitudinal grip in Forza 5's tyre model is too low (I think it was higher in previous Forza games). My theory is that Turn 10 knows this and that's why - as Dan Greenawalt said in a pre-E3 interview - they have reworked the longitudinal tyre flex model for FM6 (edit: they also have a more tyre compounds to choose from in Forza 6, so expect more tyres that trade lateral for longitudinal grip or longevity).
Longitudinal tyre flex can lead to tons of grip at low speeds with low-pressure tyres... so expect Forza 6 to be a little grippier than Forza 5.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

This game will be good, don't get me wrong but I wish they were a little more aggressive. You can't come out boasting about static weather, static puddles, static night on only a handful of tracks when other racers do it dynamically with a higher track count.

Why not have torrential rain and weather like the horizon 2 expansion?

Why not have winter and snow? Black ice? Freezing rain? Dew filled morning races? High winds that affect handling? Overcast night? Clear nights with the moon lighting the track.


There is so many options and possibilities and its just sad to see the game is marked on these new features when they are lackluster at best.

I'm referring to presentation wise, not handling or ai races in these situations. Simply how the game looks.

You can flip that round and ask why boast about dynamic TOD and weather with larger grids when you can't even hit a locked 60 fps?

It's all about making compromises in order to hit your goal.

 

[Bobnob]

Lol!

Could you elaborate pls, if its my way of writing it i can understand that lol.

 

[Diablohead]

I wish the big puddles would splash out and wobble when driven into, also some of the splash effects look more like fog then actual water splashes, dirt rally is a good example of amazing water effects.

 

[0racle]

You can flip that round and ask why boast about dynamic TOD and weather with larger grids when you can't even hit a locked 60 fps?

It's all about making compromises in order to hit your goal.

Very true, and I guess personally a very well modeled puddle on a track does not really do it for me. Im not being passive aggressive but its the sum of the parts that make a game, and dynamic tod and weather allow me to oversee some faults with other titles.

 

[Terbinator]

This game will be good, don't get me wrong but I wish they were a little more aggressive. You can't come out boasting about static weather, static puddles, static night on only a handful of tracks when other racers do it dynamically with a higher track count.

Track count has nothing to with it, though. And they may be boasting about "static" weather but if it's done a damn sight better than "dynamic" offerings then I know which I'd rather have.

Why not have torrential rain and weather like the horizon 2 expansion?

Why not have winter and snow? Black ice? Freezing rain? Dew filled morning races? High winds that affect handling? Overcast night? Clear nights with the moon lighting the track.

See above.

There is so many options and possibilities and its just sad to see the game is marked on these new features when they are lackluster at best.

So you've played the final game and compared like wise with other racers, then?

I'm referring to presentation wise, not handling or ai races in these situations. Simply how the game looks.

Ah, so you want to onscreen visuals to not have anything to do with the on-track feedback? What.

 

[0racle]

Track count has nothing to with it, though. And they may be boasting about "static" weather but if it's done a damn sight better than "dynamic" offerings then I know which I'd rather have.

See above.

So you've played the final game and compared like wise with other racers, then?

Ah, so you want to onscreen visuals to not have anything to do with the on-track feedback? What.

No, not necessarily but in a videogame audio and visual is a huge factor in perception and experience. And let's face it there is NO racer that is realistic and a 1:1 experience with driving. They all try to mimic it as best as possible.

Saying one does rain handling, or dry handling better than the other is all perception based on audio and visual feedback in corolation to the inputs your giving. Sitting on a couch will never allow the player to accurately feel the real life motion that is associated with practically a car. No matter how you cut it all games rely and audio and visual ques to mimic situations, or make you experience something.

 

[SparksBCN]

And they may be boasting about "static" weather but if it's done a damn sight better than "dynamic" offerings then I know which I'd rather have.

This is the point that many people seem to be missing, and I guess they will understand when they try the game. All racing games until Forza 6 just reduced the amount of grip/friction on the track equally in rain conditions, but Forza 6 is the first game that simulates how waterr flows and collects on certain parts of the track, which means that you really have to be careful and modify your racing line accordingly.

This is something that becomes very obvius with the TT at Brands Hatch (specially with a wheel, but it's noticeable on the controller too), and that's an AWD car, I would like to see what happens with an RWD car... When there's a game that does this AND also has dynamic weather, then we could complain.

And it happens the same with night. This is the first racing game I see where night really feels like night, you know, DARK. Also you can feel how there's less grip because of the lower temperatures, which is something that I haven't felt with GT6 or pCARS.

 

[Synth]

No, not necessarily but in a videogame audio and visual is a huge factor in perception and experience. And let's face it there is NO racer that is realistic and a 1:1 experience with driving. They all try to mimic it as best as possible.

Saying one does rain handling, or dry handling better than the other is all perception based on audio and visual feedback in corolation to the inputs your giving. Sitting on a couch will never allow the player to accurately feel the real life motion that is associated with practically a car. No matter how you cut it all games rely and audio and visual ques to mimic situations, or make you experience something.

It's true everything is affected by audio and visuals at the end of the day, but that includes what happens as a reaction to something else on screen. If Projects Cars looks just like reali life, but you simply clipped rihgt through other cars and object like in Big Rigs, then it would mean very little... so having a nive rafin filter over your screen doesn't mean very much if the feedback never gives the impression of it actually being water. The first time I drove through a puddle in PGR4, I was like "holy shit"... and it's kinda ridiculous that up until now all racers attempting to offer a sim experience have added water, but made essentially no attempt to even match that simcade game from early last generation.

 

[danowat]

Could you elaborate pls, if its my way of writing it i can understand that lol.

I've heard a lot of criticisms levelled at PCars, some of them wholly justified, others not so, but to say, especially in an FM thread that PCars is arcadey is ludicrous.

I am a big FM fan, but in terms of simulation of physics, PCars is miles ahead.

You may have fallen into the "slippy physics = realistic physics" trap, the reality is very different, tyres, especially slicks, have a heck of a lot of grip.

Longitudinal grip in FM5 is way off, lateral grip is better, but the slip curve is off, there should be more grip up to the edges of traction, and less once you exceed it.

 

[Bobnob]

I've heard a lot of criticisms levelled at PCars, some of them wholly justified, others not so, but to say, especially in an FM thread that PCars is arcadey is ludicrous.

I am a big FM fan, but in terms of simulation of physics, PCars is miles ahead.

You may have fallen into the "slippy physics = realistic physics" trap, the reality is very different, tyres, especially slicks, have a heck of a lot of grip.

Longitudinal grip in FM5 is way off, lateral grip is better, but the slip curve is off, there should4 be more grip up to the edges of traction, and less once you exceed it.

You might be wright about how real F5 grip physic's, but i still think Pcars is simcade from the many hrs i've played from the overall feel. So for me its hard to explain.Is the simulation of weight disribution even correct, i'm not sure but i don't remember stuggling with it like i did in forza.

Another reason for my opinion is that my team mate's won't play it, they prefer forza and iracing over Pcars.

 

[Gek54]

Night racing on race tracks by itself just seems odd. It makes sense for an endurance race with day to night shift or vice versa, but where does anyone start and end a race at night on pitch black courses? Better to have it than not but it is wierd.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

They've explained it as stints.