Woody Invincible
Banned
Imagine a race between Sanders & Trump. News channels would send assassins to the debates.
Bernie Sanders Surges to First Place in New Hampshire Primary Polling
- Thread starter starwarsfan541
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Vicetrailia
Banned
I support bernie.
Gnome Scat
Member
That's good to hear if true.
Interfectum
Member
That's not true at all. If anything Bernie will get more popular as we start getting into the issues and people stop assuming he's some fringe wacko (like Trump).
Bullshit. Sanders offers real plans and has been working in the system for decades with a proven record. People have been waiting for him to run for a long time.
Nobody on the GOP side gave a shit about Trump until he came out of nowhere and started mouthing off. He offers no plans of any real substance, just a lot of "it'll be great when I make America a great country again!"
Interfectum
Member
Exactly. Bernie is laying out specific plans that appeal to a pretty wide demographic. Trump is talking about the Great Wall of China and trolling females.
To even compare the two is ignorant and disingenuous.
gutter_trash
Banned
Why is Biden being included in polls when he hasn't officially said anything? ?
I'm still trying to figure out how a candidate gets -1%. Did they include Bizarro-Americans in their sample?
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I love Bernie but man you guys really think a self proclaimed socialist can win the general?
The thought of a republican president and congress scares the shit out of me :/
The thought of a republican president and congress scares the shit out of me :/
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
He could win. He does a pretty good job of explaining it.
I'm not comparing the two, I'm saying that one's meteoric rise is similar to the other.
We've seen fringe candidates flirted with by early followers of the process in every election. This is nothing new. As we get closer to the primaries people will take things more seriously and Bernie, while having concrete plans and a serious platform, will not survive.
afternoon delight
Member
No, he cannot at all. No chance. Not even close. And now motherfuckers want to split the democratic ticket when we need solidarity the most.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Split? He's not going third party. Let the primary process do its thing.
Interfectum
Member
The difference is he's not like the other fringe candidates as his issues and platform will hold up under scrutiny (which is where most usually fail).
I think a lot of you are going to be surprised how well he does against Clinton.
Beyond sick of the dismissal of "fringe candidates". Hillary is a known quantity and what we know shouldn't excite anybody with a freaking pulse.
I guess America gets the politics it deserves. Hillary v. Bush/Trump 2016. Either the same old shit v. The same old shit or The same old shit v. A fucking circus clown. Hooray.
I guess America gets the politics it deserves. Hillary v. Bush/Trump 2016. Either the same old shit v. The same old shit or The same old shit v. A fucking circus clown. Hooray.
He may well win a few primaries but he is very fringe. Bern is the most left-leaning candidate we've had make a serious run since McGovern and that isn't going to win him many votes in the later primaries.
Coriolanus
Banned
Ignoring the miracle that it would take for him to beat hillary, i fail to see which republican candidate could easily defeat him.
Not like all the people that would vote for hillary would go "well then, guess i should vote republican".
The "spineless" criticism is all too real. Republicans dragged this country by its throat so far to the right that America became an international punchline. Now Democrats are content to sit on the sliver of recent progress we've had, ignoring the inevitable fact that the political pendulum will naturally swing the other way soon.
Do you want President Trump, Bush or Rubio in 2017? Then okay.
loki 16
Member
If Bernie is able to beat the Clinton machine, no republican has a chance against hiim.
#feelthebern
Is this the same feeling people had when Obama was considered a serious underdog to Clinton? Serious question, I can't remember.
afternoon delight
Member
I have nightmares, okay? NIGHTMARES.
Glad to see Bernie doing better and better. Folks shouldn't discount him or Trump's potential to be contenders. Trump I think is the black swan which is why everyone has been pretty wrong about how things will play out for him. Yes he is lacking substance at the moment but I think its intentional right now. Hes running a PR/marketing campaign, using traditional copy principles, etc. Keeping things simple and broadly decisive because hes focusing on appealing to the masses which are not detailed oriented intellectuals. Those folks he will put more energy towards down the line, at least that's how I see it.
It's the same feeling Hillary supporters had back then.
Nobody is playing to lose. I, for one, don't plan on taking my ball and going home if my candidate doesn't win in the primaries. The demographics are heavily slanted against the Republicans. We shouldn't have to settle for a coronation based on name-recognition to win the general election.
shinra-bansho
Member
Is playing to lose the preferred strategy..?
Trump isn't going to be the candidate, like even though it would be amazing and glorious for the amusement factor, it's not going to happen. There's a considerable span of time between now and when Republicans have to decide. Candidates will drop out, the vote will consolidate eventually towards a Bush or Rubio or Walker.
Interfectum
Member
Haha same old scare tactic. If Sanders can beat Clinton, he can beat any of those candidates.
ShironRedshift
Member
Not going to happen. If Bernie beats Hillary, then he's got the general election on lock. The electoral map is just not kind to the GOP at all--regardless of who the Dems pick, the GOP isn't going to win 2016. There's just too little room for it to happen and would require a flawless performance on their side and a disaster on the Dem's. Not something to really be concerned about either way.
Interfectum
Member
Democrats playing not to lose is what's helped to lead us down the economic mess we're facing now.
Don't you worry about her age, she's just chillin' in Cedar Rapids!
Hillary is in touch with the youth and knows about the memes https://shop.hillaryclinton.com/products/the-loud-and-proud-tee
there's not enough cringe in the world to cover this.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't get this. Sanders, on current polling, would beat every single GOP contender by more than the margin of error with the exception of Bush, whom he currently edges out marginally by 49/48.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2179399-cnn-orc-poll-2016-election-9-a-m-july-26-2015.html
This is given people's current knowledge of Sanders, which is very low, and with the Sanders campaign rather than the Democratic campaign, where he'll have Emperor Obama doing campaigning for him.
In France, centrists defended Hollande, now president, by saying he was the best chance to beat the Right. What happened after that? The center of politics has kept shifting to the Right, we're going through austerity like mad. The strategy of the "useful vote" against idealism has been applied for so long now, and it got us to record inequality. Enough.
afternoon delight
Member
What? Can you comprehend how many would vote against a self proclaimed socialist? The majority of America doesn't even know what that means, except that we've fought wars against them. Can you imagine the Putin/Sanders allegories?
This shit is Ron Paul 2.0, misguided salvos with no chance in the general election.
Interfectum
Member
No real facts, just more scare tactics and catch phrases. Ron Paul 2.0, reddit candidate, Howard Dean 2.0, etc. People like you is why we are facing an economic crisis. Keep putting in right wing (bu bu socially liberal) candidates and see where it takes us.
shinra-bansho
Member
I'm not really commenting on how Sanders would fare. I was actually literally just looking at that data. I was just commenting on the nonsensical comment above, wherein I don't know what the opposite of playing not to lose entails.
Obama was always considered a serious challenge to Clinton because his politics weren't too much further to the left of her and he was given multiple high-profile speaking engagements by the Dem national party. Everyone just figured he'd get it AFTER Hillary.
Bernie is different in that he's seen as too far left by the majority of the country... at least for now. If he can come closer to the center while maintaining his fringe base it will be interesting. The debates will tell the tale I suppose.
is this real? Split the ticket??? It's a fucking primary, we don't need solidarity in the primary.
Why are you guys acting like Bernie is going to run as an independent?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Oh, that's fair enough. I just find it a little strange how a large number of people think Sanders would lose the general when on the data we have before us, he'd have 2008 style landslides against the vast majority of the Republican field. The GOP is a dead party walking.
Sanders already has a much broader support than any crazy libertarian ever did. Paul appealed to half-educated internet loners who got that the war in Iraq was criminal, but never questioned their own egotistical impulses. This does not represent a broad base. Like it or not, socialism, in a number of shapes, is going to make a come-back, because workers and poor people can only get screwed so much before they protest.
There is a long slog between now and November 2016 and when all the money and media attention and focus gets centered on whoever the GOP puts up versus whoever the Dems put up it will end up being closer than anyone is going to be comfortable with... except maybe the GOP lol
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
yup.
shinra-bansho
Member
I think, as the current data suggests, he has a harder time in a general election. Looking at the crosstabs it stems from a weakening in the non-white vote compared to Clinton's match ups. And basically, I see nothing wrong with people choosing the more product of greater utility on offer, particularly when the products really aren't that different in the grand scheme.
Omegasquash
Member
I'm starting to hear rumors of an impending Biden announcement, though I suspect they are just that...rumors.
The Draft Biden PAC reminds me very much of the Warren PAC from a little while back.
93% for me, and 91% with Hillary.
The Draft Biden PAC reminds me very much of the Warren PAC from a little while back.
93% for me, and 91% with Hillary.
afternoon delight
Member
Yeah it's scare tactics and catch phrases because that's how politics actually works. Are you one of those people who thinks issues and the right opinions wins elections?
I'll ignore your people like me jab.
Too bad those numbers and shapes will never coaelesce into the ruling party you and they envision. You think this is the year Americans will accept Socialists?
Then you are ignoring the most fundamental issue in our political process today, the influence of corporate money. Hillary can say all the words she wants, we know who is signing the checks. It's not like we have her great progressive record to support her sudden shift to the left on issues.
teruterubozu
Member
We already did in 2008 - at least according to conservative America.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I mean, it's true to say that his numbers are slightly worse against the GOP candidates than Hillary's are. It's also true to say that they're not so much worse he is at serious risk of losing. He leads Scott Walker 56% to 42%, for example. You'd need an absolutely titanic campaign swing to turn that around, which I think is implausible considering the organizational differences between the national Democratic and Republican parties.
I also reject the idea that the products aren't that different. Fundamentally, American politics takes place within a system that is overwhelmingly dominated by moneyed interests. Sanders wants to put an end to that, and what's more, that is an entirely believable claim given his track record of avoiding the large funding organizations entirely. That's a sharp contrast to Hillary. Even if their policies while in office would be similar, the effect they'll have in what that office looks like in the future is very different.
Sanders would change America. He'd be the left's Reagan if he made office, it would fundamentally change the political landscape. Hillary would be fine. But she wouldn't be that.
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