Hey, I follow him for the laughs!
CNN poll : Donald Trump now competitive in general election
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cpp_is_king
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This is one of the main reasons I'm voting for him. I like Republicans on some issues, but the extremism is poisonous. And maybe some of Trumps ideas are too, but something has to happen to tear the GOP establishment apart. We deserve more than one reasonable party to choose from. So the better Trump does, the worse the GOP establishment fares, which is ultimately my goal
Tl;dr = America has a problem if the "Abraham Lincolns" of today are no longer electable.
Full version: I think you're confusing my position as being based on populism, when really it's all about the photogenics. Basically goes like this:
Candidates are elected today based on factors such as their appearance and body language relative to their opponents in a way that didn't use to be a factor. You can very often predict an election's outcome based on candidate body language.
This has the effect of allowing the electorate to "know" the candidates better, like an interviewer meeting potential applicants and being, knowingly or not, influenced by their body language. Some U.S. government agencies even train their interviewers to recognize and account for these innate biases in order to make a more accurate job selection, but naturally this will never happen for the general population.
So we have a situation now where factors such as "TV presence," "celebrity-like aura," and "winning smile" powerfully influence elections. Candidates to whom it doesn't come naturally often invest in body language training to appeal to the electorate.
While good candidates are often still elected (I think Obama's been an excellent president), these factors are disproportionately influential compared to knowledge of the philosophy and practice of government administration. So two things happen:
1. We're more likely to elect ineffective executives.
2. We're more likely to disregard people who would actually be excellent presidents. James Madison was too short to ever be electable today. Abraham Lincoln was too tall, ugly, and awkward. 1960 was the year of the first national presidential debate. How many other excellent pre-1960 presidents (the year of the first televised presidential debate) would we have missed out on based on this?
Corollary 1: The two worst presidents in American history (Buchanan and Jackson) were both pre-1960 and we had a number of incompetents all around back then. BUT, I do think that, going forward, treating presidential elections like high school popularity contests (Reagan/Bush2 are the easy targets) has been biting us in the ass and will continue to do so going forward.
Corollary 2: I don't think Donald Trump would even be a factor if it weren't for his star presence and the media frenzy around him. A candidate like this could conceivably win the whole election purely based on media attention–even negative media attention can help him so long as enough of his base is exposed to him and votes. If the media would stop focusing on him, there'd be no issue, but Donald Trump gives ratings, so the media won't shut up, so they'll keep criticizing and he'll keep benefitting from the attention.
Pizza Booty
Banned
trump has literally commandeered the republican electorate
completely pulled from under what is supporting the republican caucus
I want trump to run third party and start a new party altogether. "The Donalds." Could you even imagine?
completely pulled from under what is supporting the republican caucus
I want trump to run third party and start a new party altogether. "The Donalds." Could you even imagine?
Choppasmith
Member
Had a conversation with my sister the other night. She was telling me how she wants to vote for Trump because being a businessman would be the best thing for America. And apparently she heard something about his plan to charge China import tax since its something they currently don't have to do. I just sort of nodded and went mmmhmmm mostly because I don't like to get into political discussions and I was just so flabbergasted I didn't know how to respond. Is there any truth to that whole China import tax thing? I know he's a bigot, but I'd like to arm myself with a little more knowledge should the topic come up again.
speculawyer
Member
That is what some people said about George Bush. He ran some businesses
into the ground
DragonSworne
Banned
I like his attitude, not so much his message or policies. A cut the bullshit sissy cap is what people seem to looking for.
All the other republicans in the race look like sissies.
I don't get this, just vote for who you think would make the best president. Voting for any other reason is toxic. Trump will continue getting plenty of votes from bigots no matter what at this point, there is no stopping the damage he will continue to do to the GOP
Some people have this mind boggling misconception that nations and corporations can be run under the same principles, as though private goods and public goods were one and the same.
I don't agree with many aspects of Plato's philosophy, but there's a reason why he distinguished between the "merchants" and the "governors" in his ideal society.
Yes, but this is where modern democracies run into trouble. The founding fathers, in so many words, were very specific about the need for the system to have a lot of bullshit. Governments must either have bullshit, devolve into tyrannies, or evolve into a stronger, yet undiscovered form of government.
NullPointer
Member
Alcibiades
Member
I'm not sure our founding fathers intended that bullsh*t to include enriching pharmaceuticals, insurance companies, prison corporations, Common Core testing companies, wealthy bankers/CEOs/shareholders, and energy (both oil and "green") companies because they support your ability to stay in power.
That's what we've had for the last 2 Presidents and that is why Donald Trump, despite some abhorrent positions, is getting traction.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
That's all well and good but some of those industries don't have to lobby for Trump because he personally believes in all the things they want already. Wealthy bankers/CEOs/etc are all going to benefit from his views of less regulation, less taxes. Energy companies will benefit from less regulations and more permits on drilling.
Druz
Member
Dragon has the power of 1 vote. I know, I don't understand it either.
Trump better than Hilary? Insanity.
Alcibiades
Member
He also, if his past positions are to be believed, wouldn't mind high taxes for the very rich to pay off the national debt and supports a healthcare system that takes care of everyone without the insurance interests soaking up the money.
You'd never see radical suggestions like these by a traditional candidate too beholden to special interests.
Point is, he may be worse than what we have now, but the reason he is getting traction is because what we have now is so bad.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Most of those are views he has repudiated as he "became" a Republican over the years. There's another problem with him, his policy positions are very unclear in general. He may tell it like it is but he has not been clear on that front at all.
1. I think it's interesting you chose the username of a person who was ostracized and exiled by the democracy he fought to save.
2. No, the founding fathers obviously could not have intended for things that didn't exist in the 1780s. My post referred to the intended mechanism of legislation, which for all its inefficiencies, is preferable to the reckless legislation typical to monarchies and dictatorships.
Note: I said intended mechanism, not the actual mechanism.
cpp_is_king
Member
I don't want to continue just voting for who I think would make the best president. I'm not happy with any of them. I'm not happy with the entire system - for example, congress. I'm especially not happy with the religious extremism that has infested the GOP, which is in large part due to the influence of money in politics.
I don't give 2 shits about the next 8 years if I can influence the next 80 or 800 years. I don't know of a better way than to detonate a metaphorical bomb from within. Trump's not going to get any of his more extreme policies passed, I mean get real for a second. But voting for him, and especially if he wins, is the only way I know to send a clear message to the GOP that they are not welcome anymore in their current form.
Alcibiades
Member
Yeah true I don't know quite what to make of him and what kind of President he would be. I also don't think he could be as bad as people are making him out to be.
Would he work to enrich the Pearson testing company like our last 2 Presidents with No Child Left Behind and Race to the Top? Maybe, after all they may have to pay less taxes. That said, he is against Common Core which is enabling billion-dollar companies to take over education.
I'm a public HS teacher so I can't get behind his support of charters. BUT, I have seen nothing but a bunch of slimy testing, consulting, training, and textbook companies the last couple of years get rich off taxpayer dollars when that money should be going into the classrooms. I am forced to attend trainings by these "former educators' that are basically a waste of time and very, very expensive.
I've completely lost faith in any Republican or Democratic President to actually do anything good on this front, with the exception of maybe Sanders or Trump. They could be worse potentially, but at this point people are drowning in the system and disgusted that the rhetoric from Bush and Obama was just a smokescreen to enrich a few greedy corporations.
Yet you keep making definitive statements about Trump throughout the thread.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Just about his most recent statements, which I assume are what he currently believes. How else am I supposed to understand his positions?
Nope! The President could nominate Joe the Plumber if he wanted.
cpp_is_king
Member
Considering that they are a type of judge, I would imagine so.
No they do not, but I can't ever see a nomination like that happening from a sane person.
I could think of a clearer way than voting for one of them.
Alcibiades
Member
Yeah I see what you mean and I agree. Mob democracy scares me and I like the fact that everything is separated by layers, branches, and states.
That is one reason I continue to support the electoral college and the 2-senator per state system. Everything is very balanced as I think it should be. The biggest issue is the corruption from money/business interests.
cpp_is_king
Member
What is it then? Not voting for any of them? Then I'm just another statistic contributing to the lack of voter turnout. That says nothing.
Alcibiades
Member
See this kind of thinking could get me to root for a Trump victory. He is like throwing a grenade at the center of the political system that exists today.
A big middle finger to both parties, lobbyists, and the money behind the curtain.
I only wished he thought of Snowden as a hero (rather than a traitor) and supported legalization of drugs as a way to fight addiction and cartels.
exmachina64
Banned
As opposed to what? Not participating in the political system or fomenting revolution?
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Why shouldn't he win? Land of opportunity huh.
The man is a self made billionaire. I genuinely want him to be president
The man is a self made billionaire. I genuinely want him to be president
He had quite a start from his family, and a lot of his gains are via abuse of American corporate and bankruptcy laws.
Self-made implies you didn't rely on daddy's money.
Haha goddamn if this not what most of America actually wants to hear. It's about time someone got into the political race unafraid to say real shit. Seriously... What other politician could have gotten away with that statement
Reading his Wikipedia article, he was close to bankruptcy until he received his father's inheritance, self-made my ass.
Alcibiades
Member
There are some people that advocate getting rid of the electoral college and don't think it is fair that Delaware and California each have two senators despite major population differences.
I'm saying I support a republic system of government through democratically elected leaders and checks and balances built in.
I support that as opposed to 100% direct democracy.
If Trump were to give a speech tomorrow saying he now supports every liberal policy there is would you believe him because those are "his most recent statements"? And if the next day he gives another speech, and says the opposite, would you assume that's what he believes because those were "his most recent statements"? Seems unwise.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Yeah, better to just believe he's whatever we want him to be. Why don't you enlighten me as to who the REAL donald trump is.
Sounds like a flip flopper with no clear visions if he were to do that.
MrCunningham
Member
This is nothing new. JFK was a media savvy president for his day, Ronald Reagan was a movie and television star between the 1930's to 1960's before becoming president, Clinton had a media swagger and Obama was the first presidential candidate to take full advantage of social media. The funny thing is, Trump doesn't really have an award winning smile, nor is he hansom in anyway. The man is just going forth purely on his own confidence.
Trump is Ronald Reagan redux. He's the living embodiment of 1980's capitalism and he is going to take the entire country back to that decade in mindset. Kind of like how Ronald Reagan tried to bring back the ideals of the 1950's in the 1980's.
maquiladora
Member
Donald Trump the XXX Parody Trailer (SFW) Yes, there is a real Trump porn parody out. Surprised there isn't a thread about it. Anyone watched it yet?
The rest of the post you quoted addressed this. And I still consider post-1960 to be "new." When you said "this is nothing new," I thought you were going to have something to say about American politics 1788 - 1960
GTA does not feel over the top anymore
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
To be fair, real life usually is less well-written than fiction.
Bookmarking thread. Can't wait for the meltdowns
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