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[SomTervo]

Hopefully someone from the review event can answer this. I'm not going to get my hopes up, because it's always seemed like KojiPro considers Reflex Mode the 'proper' way to play, but if they got rid of the instant, omniscient Alert from GZ when you turned it off it'd fix one of my big complaints about the game.

Honestly, they had it perfect fourteen years ago in MGS2; I don't know why they ever changed it. You get spotted, the enemy retreats and calls for backup on his radio. If you can't take him out in time you get the Alert. If you take him out while he's on the radio, CP gets suspicious and goes into Caution mode. If you take him out straight away, you're home free. In Ground Zeroes, you either use Reflex mode, which is essentially a QTE prompt that all but lines up a headshot for you, or you turn it off and the entire base is alerted to your presence immediately. Like, literally before the guy who spotted you even has a chance to shout out, CP's yelling out "ALL FIRE TEAMS".

For one thing, it's not an insta-alert when a guard spots you. If you turn off reflex mode and get yourself seen in GZ, you still get probably 2 seconds before they shout. It's the shouting that alerts everyone, because obviously it would. In a small military base, if someone screams, everyone will go on alert.

But more importantly, one journalist did answer this from the May press event. Well, they didn't "answer" it, but they explained what they experienced. May still be wrong/outdated.

From what the journalist said in May, it's slightly more complicated in the full-TPP open world. Basically, it depends on the guard's situation/position. For instance, how close are they to other guards/small bases/main base?

Apparently if a guard is isolated when they spot you - maybe in the wilderness or in an empty township - they won't trigger an alert when they see you. They'll just try to take you on themselves. I swear I've had this happen to me in GZ, but maybe not.

If a guard is in a small base, like Camp Omega, they will alert all the guards in this base when they see you and shout (again, a 1-3 second window). However, someone at this base has to radio to the main base (HQ) to set the whole region on alert. When they do this, shit will get real, and you can still stop it apparently.

If you're in a large base/an HQ when you're spotted, everything goes to shit and it's full alert within those couple of seconds.

I think they removed the 'radio in' mechanic because of 1. the balancing and 2. the level design. Re balancing, imagine if you could sit on a hilltop a mile away and silenced-snipe every single guard's radio in a town before you went in. It would basically break the balance. Similarly you could knock out all the guards and break their radios so the base would, in its entirety, stop being a thread. For 2, the level design, it only made sense for guards to radio out in MGS2 when we played in small, closed-off sections of a larger base. In MGS3 and onwards, the areas get much bigger, 90% outdoors, and more interconnected, so it made more sense for everyone to get alerted from a shout. In TPP it'll make perfect sense for all nearby guards to set off the alarm if one guard shouts 'he's here'!

Anyway. My two pence.

 

[Screaming Meat]

If someone thinks they see someone, they have to radio CP to talk about it; if they actually spot you, CP just knows about it through hivemind telepathy or something.

Are you sure about that...? I know from experience that you can interrupt the alarm when someone spots you by shooting or CQC-ing them before they finish shouting. That doesn't alert the base.

For one thing, it's not an insta-alert when a guard spots you. If you turn off reflex mode and get yourself seen in GZ, you still get probably 2 seconds before they shout. It's the shouting that alerts everyone, because obviously it would. In a small military base, if someone screams, everyone will go on alert.

Yeah, that's pretty much been my experience. I think 2 seconds is being generous, the window of opportunity sans Reflex is incredibly small.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I feel like all the usual places I go to are a minefield.
Fuck.

 

[legacyzero]

Did that Gaffer say when those custom case sleeves were shipping?

 

[matrix-cat]

OK, I just loaded up GZ and did some experimenting. Basically, a dude sees you, goes through a "Huh!?" stumbling animation which lasts about a second (which you can interrupt if you're lucky), then the Alert triggers as they shout "CONTACT!". In fact, their shout is often drowned out by the sound of the base's Alert claxon. The "Contact" shout, the CP soundbyte, and the actual Alert phase, are all triggered at the exact moment that stumbling animation finishes.

I get that you could shut things down by shooting all the guards' radios, but I don't really see that as a problem. I suggested in my last post that you could just implement a Caution phase when a guard feels his radio being shot, easy as that (probably should have worked that way in MGS2, to be honest). But, even without that, if the player takes the initiative to pull off forty-something pinpoint shots on tiny hitboxes like that, why not let them enjoy the reward? Shooting every radio would actually be significantly harder than just shooting everyone in the head with tranq rounds, and MGS is all about screwing around with guards

 

[ZanDatsu]

I feel like all the usual places I go to are a minefield.
Fuck.

This Chrome addon was recommended by someone. It works well and makes me feel a lot safer when loading up certain sites.

I've got it loaded with:

Metal Gear Solid V
MGSV
Phantom Pain
Big Boss
Quiet
Zero
Cypher
Paz
Chico
Solid Snake
Ocelot
Miller
Kaz
MGS5
The Boss
Liquid
Snake
Skull Face
Skullface

 

[Auctopus]

Yeah, watching a Gametrailers review is tantamount to saying "Please spoil the game for me"

Ben Moore (the guy at GT who's reviewed the game) is adamant to provide a spoiler-less review, he was incredibly hesitant to talk about the game on stream last night. He even mentioned (Similarly to YongYea) that a lot of the reviewers are going to drop a huge spoiler in the review as some less invested reviewers don't see it as a spoiler where MGS fans will see it as one. Ben won't be talking about said spoile in his review.

 

[Alienous]

Did that Gaffer say when those custom case sleeves were shipping?

Which one's? Shagg's? I got those yesterday, in the UK. He's shipped the first bunch.

 

[legacyzero]

Which one's? Shagg's? I got those yesterday, in the UK. He's shipped the first bunch.

Yeah, and gotcha!

Ben Moore (the guy at GT who's reviewed the game) is adamant to provide a spoiler-less review, he was incredibly hesitant to talk about the game on stream last night. He even mentioned (Similarly to YongYea) that a lot of the reviewers are going to drop a huge spoiler in the review as some less invested reviewers don't see it as a spoiler where MGS fans will see it as one. Ben won't be talking about said spoile in his review.

So you say it's "huge", but reviewers wont think so? I'm having trouble gauging the size of this potential spoiler

 

[| Praxis |]

Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtJppgWm0w4 and the part you wanted starts at 26:38

I was weak, I watched this video. Now I wish I hadn't because the wait is going to be a painful one. Holy shit was that cool. They nailed the location too, it's a great representation of that country.

 

[matrix-cat]

Ben Moore (the guy at GT who's reviewed the game) is adamant to provide a spoiler-less review, he was incredibly hesitant to talk about the game on stream last night. He even mentioned (Similarly to YongYea) that a lot of the reviewers are going to drop a huge spoiler in the review as some less invested reviewers don't see it as a spoiler where MGS fans will see it as one. Ben won't be talking about said spoile in his review.

Oh wow, I take it back then. I might have to check that out.

Spoiler

I probably still won't until I've finished the game. Much too paranoid

 

[A-V-B]

Yeah, and gotcha!



So you say it's "huge", but reviewers wont think so? I'm having trouble gauging the size of this potential spoiler

Reviewers who don't give a shit about MGS won't care about spoiling because it's MGS, whatever.

Reviewers who do care about MGS probably won't try to spoil it.

 

[Screaming Meat]

OK, I just loaded up GZ and did some experimenting. Basically, a dude sees you, goes through a "Huh!?" stumbling animation which lasts about a second (which you can interrupt if you're lucky), then the Alert triggers as they shout "CONTACT!". In fact, their shout is often drowned out by the sound of the base's Alert claxon. The "Contact" shout, the CP soundbyte, and the actual Alert phase, are all triggered at the exact moment that stumbling animation finishes.

Did you try CQC-ing him before he finishes saying "Contact"? I'm pretty sure I've stopped base-wide alerts that way. I spent an evening testing it out a few months ago.

Report your findings!

 

[A-V-B]

I really do hope MGSV isn't some MGS2 Raiden-level shit though. I truly do want to play as Big Boss as he spirals down and becomes the bad guy. Or whatever.

Just make it good Hideo plz ((

 

[matrix-cat]

Did you try CQC-ing him before he finishes saying "Contact"? I'm pretty sure I've stopped base-wide alerts that way. I spent an evening testing it out a few months ago.

Report your findings!

Yeah, you can. It basically works the way MGS3 did; if they hear your footsteps stomping up behind them they'll get a plain white exclamation mark above their heads, and if you CQC'em in the second or so while they're still surprised you can defuse the situation. I imagine if you see a guard do it at long distance you could interrupt them with a few shots to the body or something, but it's such a tight window you'd really have to be aiming at them already. It's really just a safety net for when you're sneaking up behind someone to do some CQC, not something you can rely on in normal circumstances.

 

[realcZk]

Ben Moore (the guy at GT who's reviewed the game) is adamant to provide a spoiler-less review, he was incredibly hesitant to talk about the game on stream last night. He even mentioned (Similarly to YongYea) that a lot of the reviewers are going to drop a huge spoiler in the review as some less invested reviewers don't see it as a spoiler where MGS fans will see it as one. Ben won't be talking about said spoile in his review.

I watched his gameplay impressions a while back, he seems like big MGS fan. Will definitely check out his review.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

This Chrome addon was recommended by someone. It works well and makes me feel a lot safer when loading up certain sites.

I've got it loaded with:

Metal Gear Solid V
MGSV
Phantom Pain
Big Boss
Quiet
Zero
Cypher
Paz
Chico
Solid Snake
Ocelot
Miller
Kaz
MGS5
The Boss
Liquid
Snake
Skull Face
Skullface

You forgot David Hayter

 

[Nightengale]

Ben Moore (the guy at GT who's reviewed the game) is adamant to provide a spoiler-less review, he was incredibly hesitant to talk about the game on stream last night. He even mentioned (Similarly to YongYea) that a lot of the reviewers are going to drop a huge spoiler in the review as some less invested reviewers don't see it as a spoiler where MGS fans will see it as one. Ben won't be talking about said spoile in his review.

Ben Moore, Greg Miller & Richard Stanton's review will be the only reviews I will actually see the content of their reviews.

 

[SiteSeer]

i'll be skipping the reviews for this game, already got my preorder. i don't need someone trying to convince me to get or pass on this one. best to avoid potential spoilers too. hype already sky high.

 

[EatChildren]

So everybody probably already knows how the game works, but for those who don't, I made this reference image for how missions are structured in the open world (or at least how I think it works).

 

[Sn4ke_911]

 

[MattyG]

Ben Moore (the guy at GT who's reviewed the game) is adamant to provide a spoiler-less review, he was incredibly hesitant to talk about the game on stream last night. He even mentioned (Similarly to YongYea) that a lot of the reviewers are going to drop a huge spoiler in the review as some less invested reviewers don't see it as a spoiler where MGS fans will see it as one. Ben won't be talking about said spoile in his review.

It's probably going to get plastered all over social media within an hour. I'm probably going to have to avoid Twitter for the next 9 days :/

 

[Ryan_MSF]

Amazed this thread is still going, first thread was a success

 

[MickeyKnox]

So everybody probably already knows how the game works, but for those who don't, I made this reference image for how missions are structured in the open world (or at least how I think it works).
]

That's how I imagine it'll work, though I think side ops may also be instanced out via a start point load.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Yeah, you can. It basically works the way MGS3 did; if they hear your footsteps stomping up behind them they'll get a plain white exclamation mark above their heads, and if you CQC'em in the second or so while they're still surprised you can defuse the situation. I imagine if you see a guard do it at long distance you could interrupt them with a few shots to the body or something, but it's such a tight window you'd really have to be aiming at them already. It's really just a safety net for when you're sneaking up behind someone to do some CQC, not something you can rely on in normal circumstances.

Ah, okay. Nice one.

 

[matrix-cat]

So everybody probably already knows how the game works, but for those who don't, I made this reference image for how missions are structured in the open world (or at least how I think it works).

Thanks for that. Some stuff I hadn't put together yet; all looks pretty spot on.

I never noticed that 'Obtainable Skills/Blueprints' thing in the mission screen. That should be really helpful; I was just complaining a couple of pages ago that I felt like I had to go to GameFAQs all the time to find out how to unlock stuff in Peace Walker

 

[EatChildren]

That's how I imagine it'll work, though I think side ops may also be instanced out via a start point load.

They're not, based on the gameplay demos at least. Well, I mean, they're "activated" but to activate them all you need to do is drive to the area. Main missions need to be activated by going to specific areas and manually commencing them. Side Ops essentially exist as zones on the map that you can travel to at any point and pursue the objective.

 

[Peff]

Side Ops don't seem to rank you on your performance either, which I guess is neat since it allows for more consequence-free experimentation. I do wonder if the obtainable stuff tells you about everything in that area or just the ones that spawn in the specific mission. Maybe levelling the Intel team up is what makes the standard collectibles appear.

 

[Graphics Horse]

They're not, based on the gameplay demos at least. Well, I mean, they're "activated" but to activate them all you need to do is drive to the area. Main missions need to be activated by going to specific areas and manually commencing them. Side Ops essentially exist as zones on the map that you can travel to at any point and pursue the objective.

There was a preview which said you can select them from the side op list, it might only affect whether the blue circle appears or not though, it sounds like you might be able to stumble across side ops that weren't marked.

 

[MiamiWesker]

So we are going to keep the review thread spoiler free. We better not have people opening discussion what is in the reviews.

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

So we are going to keep the review thread spoiler free. We better not have people opening discussion what is in the reviews.

I would, ideally, like a review thread with scores in the first post and discussion entirely spoilter tagged so I can read the scores and then avoid the actually comments.... which goes against my general approach for reviews where I ignore the scores, but the risk of spoilers is too high.

 

[realcZk]

So we are going to keep the review thread spoiler free. We better not have people opening discussion what is in the reviews.

I'd love to read some of the spoiler-free reviews for more information on mechanics and impressions. Hopefully someone is willing to take one for the team and tag the reviews that are spoiler free

 

[JimPanzer]

So we are going to keep the review thread spoiler free. We better not have people opening discussion what is in the reviews.

What should people than talk about? If you don't want to get spoiled stay the fuck away from the review thread. At least that's what I'll be doing.

 

[TheBoss1]

So have them go into Caution mode when they feel a bullet slam into the radio, problem solved. Nothing could make the game easier than Reflex Mode does. You can quite literally get S-Ranks by just sprinting through the levels, relying on Reflex Mode to trigger for sick headshots like you're playing a bullet time shooter.

I mean, pretty much anything would be better. If Reflex Mode didn't instantly line up a headshot for you, if it only worked on enemies you'd already tagged, if you had a limited number of Reflex Mode activations, anything. Instead, it's basically an "I win" button, and if you decide to turn it off you have to deal with the ultimate cardinal sin for a stealth game: an instant alert.

I get that all it should take in a base like Camp Omega is one soldier to shout, but that's not how it works. If you're sneaking up behind a dude and you accidentally nudge him before you put him in a CQC hold, that sets off the alert. He doesn't shout, he doesn't even finish his surprised stumble animation; CP just shouts "ALL FIRE TEAMS WE HAVE AN INTRUDER" instantly, and every single soldier on the base comes running. If someone thinks they see someone, they have to radio CP to talk about it; if they actually spot you, CP just knows about it through hivemind telepathy or something.

Reflex mode is a crutch meant for people who aren't good at stealth games. I wonder why anyone would think shooting a radio is easier than avoiding alert through reflex mode. It's a very hand-holding mechanic that doesn't require any skill whatsoever compared to shooting a radio that's small and you have to line up the shot almost perfectly.

 

[oldboss]

I'm glad people are finally starting to talk a bit more about the instant alert stuff, but AFAIK, no previewer gave any hint whatsoever that insta alert wasn't in anymore.

I'm 100% sure it is in TPP. Reflex is still in, so I don't see in what world we'd have no insta-alert + reflex mode. It would defeat the whole purpose of this garbage mechanic.

 

[Auctopus]

I'm 100% sure it is in TPP. Reflex is still in, so I don't see in what world we'd have no insta-alert + reflex mode. It would defeat the whole purpose of this garbage mechanic.

It's been confirmed several times you can choose to have insta-alert and reflex mode on or off. Do you really think journos trying to complete the game as fast as possible would switch reflex mode off and therefore talk about it?

 

[Woodchipper]

I'm 100% sure it is in TPP. Reflex is still in, so I don't see in what world we'd have no insta-alert + reflex mode. It would defeat the whole purpose of this garbage mechanic.

Yeah, it's a shame. I'm not kidding when I say that it's one of the worst inventions in gaming.

 

[MickeyKnox]

They're not, based on the gameplay demos at least. Well, I mean, they're "activated" but to activate them all you need to do is drive to the area. Main missions need to be activated by going to specific areas and manually commencing them. Side Ops essentially exist as zones on the map that you can travel to at any point and pursue the objective.

Hrm interesting, in that case I wonder if there's any sort of tier structure to the side ops and the locations, are all the side ops available from the start or will it populate as you progress though the story and/or clear certain side ops?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It's been confirmed several times you can choose to have insta-alert and reflex mode on or off. Do you really think journos trying to complete the game as fast as possible would switch reflex mode off and therefore talk about it?

Well, 'insta-alert' as in every guard magically knowing where you are was more of a thing for Ground Zeroes. For TPP it's more like MGS2/MGS3 where it has to be radioed in.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

So we are going to keep the review thread spoiler free. We better not have people opening discussion what is in the reviews.

People are gonna talk about the reviews in a review thread, dude.

 

[KarmaCow]

So we are going to keep the review thread spoiler free. We better not have people opening discussion what is in the reviews.

I'm guessing you're already getting the game and I know it's tempting but you should just avoid the review thread. Trying to get people to not talk about the content of the reviews in the review thread is not going to work. You're just asking for trouble trying to go in there if you're that paranoid about spoilers.

What should people than talk about? If you don't want to get spoiled stay the fuck away from the review thread. At least that's what I'll be doing.

That's really the most sensible option.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Well, 'insta-alert' as in every guard magically knowing where you are was more of a thing for Ground Zeroes. For TPP it's more like MGS2/MGS3 where it has to be radioed in.

...lets just wait for the embargo or the lets play or the game, not long now.


The part you're referencing was an encounter a reporter had seconds into the gameplay before they reached any outposts.

 

[aravuus]

So we are going to keep the review thread spoiler free. We better not have people opening discussion what is in the reviews.

I'm curious to hear what you want from the thread in that case

 

[BreezyLimbo]

...lets just wait for the embargo or the lets play or the game, not long now.

It was mentioned in one of the gameplay trailers. Like specifically I remember hearing 'Unlike Ground Zeroes, all the guards won't automatically know where you are'. or that sort.

 

[matrix-cat]

It was mentioned in one of the gameplay trailers. Like specifically I remember hearing 'Unlike Ground Zeroes, all the guards won't automatically know where you are'. or that sort.

I'll need to see a source on that, because I've watched all the gameplay demos about a dozen times each and I don't remember anything like that. Everything they've shown suggests it's exactly the same as GZ was; Reflex Mode triggers, and if you can't make the shot it's base-wide alert time, everyone's coming for you.

There's even that one demo in Africa, where an enemy spots the balloon that BB uses to extract a prisoner, and dudes just come pouring out of the middle of the jungle, not even a proper enemy base.

 

[Woodchipper]

Well, 'insta-alert' as in every guard magically knowing where you are was more of a thing for Ground Zeroes. For TPP it's more like MGS2/MGS3 where it has to be radioed in.

Good news if true, which I doubt it is.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I'll need to see a source on that, because I've watched all the gameplay demos about a dozen times each and I don't remember anything like that. Everything they've shown suggests it's exactly the same as GZ was; Reflex Mode triggers, and if you can't make the shot it's base-wide alert time, everyone's coming for you.

Same here, just seen a journalist quote spammed around about literally the first pair of guards you can encounter in the game.

 

[Ralemont]

Reflex mode felt like a counter to increased enemy capabilities. When guards can only see 10 feet in front of them shooting radios works, but when they can spot you from crow's nests a baseball's throw away, radioing in would basically be a 100% success rate. Reflex mode was created to deal with the more open levels and terrain, I think.

 

[Alpende]

Haven't really paid attention to this game because I've never been that interested in MGS. Seeing this video and reading a bit more about it has me very interested. I'll still wait for the reviews though and I still have NG+ for The Witcher to finish before I even think of buying another big open game.

 

[EatChildren]

Hrm interesting, in that case I wonder if there's any sort of tier structure to the side ops and the locations, are all the side ops available from the start or will it populate as you progress though the story and/or clear certain side ops?

A journo was in here (or maybe another thread) talking about how optional side tasks for missions that can be discovered can then lead to new missions, so maybe that's what he meant: side ops can be discovered (aka, made active on the map) by interrogation and task completion in missions.

Maybe there is some active component, but on the gameplay demos the map just has blue circle side op zones that instantly trigger the mission once you're in the radius. As opposed to actual missions which must be activated at start points.

Reflex mode felt like a counter to increased enemy capabilities. When guards can only see 10 feet in front of them shooting radios works, but when they can spot you from crow's nests a baseball's throw away, radioing in would basically be a 100% success rate. Reflex mode was created to deal with the more open levels and terrain, I think.

That's how I feel, yeah, regardless of how well it works or what else they could have done. Open world means no level zoning like every other Metal Gear game, so the new alert and reflex system appears to be a method of balancing guard behaviour.