Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain | Review Thread | Words That Kill

Tapes v Codecs is a dumb argument. It's about context. Taped are just audio clips of random conversations. Codec calls are about context. I'm interacting with someone about something in front of me in the moment. It's like the difference between having a conversation with someone and listening to a pre recorded one. It's not the same thing.

Also you realize you can just pop open the codec and call when you're interested in learning something but with tapes you have to open up the menu and look through tapes. It'd be better if you got a happy medium where they just gave you the choice to listen to a tape contextually.
 
Exploratory said:
Tapes v Codecs is a dumb argument. It's about context. Taped are just audio clips of random conversations. Codec calls are about context. I'm interacting with someone about something in front of me in the moment. It's like the difference between having a conversation with someone and listening to a pre recorded one. It's not the same thing.

Also you realize you can just pop open the codec and call when you're interested in learning something but with taped you have to open up the menu and look through tapes. It'd be better if you got a happy medium where they just gave you the choice to listen to a tape contextually.
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The cassette conversations in PW were fantastic. Especially the talks about Guevara and Miller's backstory(and obsession with the French girl).
 
I for one welcome our (not-so) new cassette tape overlords. I honestly don't mind it at all... Frankly, as long as the narrative is there, I won't be hung-up on how it is delivered (and regardless of this "sparce narrative" thing, there's still cut-scenes too). Can't wait to see how the whole thing plays out.
 
ElTorro said:
Better quality:

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MetaJoelBanderasShuGuyWhoGot1stPS4.gif
 
Exploratory said:
Tapes v Codecs is a dumb argument. It's about context. Taped are just audio clips of random conversations. Codec calls are about context. I'm interacting with someone about something in front of me in the moment. It's like the difference between having a conversation with someone and listening to a pre recorded one. It's not the same thing.

Also you realize you can just pop open the codec and call when you're interested in learning something but with taped you have to open up the menu and look through tapes. It'd be better if you got a happy medium where they just gave you the choice to listen to a tape contextually.
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? You find the tape, press play, and continue playing the game. Not seeing an issue.
 
cackhyena said:
? You find the tape, press play, and continue playing the game. Not seeing an issue.
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Exactly. And considering we've had an ENTIRE GAME (Peace Walker) and Ground Zeroes to cement this design decision, I'm really not sure why anyone is surprised or upset.

...

But I guess Kiefer was just too expensive, right?
 
cackhyena said:
Yup. People just can't come to grips with how much Kojima decided to change things up.
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it a little bit ironic too every single release has had most poeple including big fans like me complaining about the long ass cutscenes it was insane in mgs4 lol... i wasnt on gaf when mgs3 came out but im sure it was there as well... mgs4 cut scenes were amazing in their own right but all where too long. almost everyone would skip them after seeing them once or twice...

i personally dont see the apeal of PW of the streams ive watched the game isnt that great for me... mostly because of the gameplay and the fact its a psp game but the story is good though.. i think kojima wants a less linear aproch to story telling to go along with the open world and non linear gameplay.
 
cackhyena said:
? You find the tape, press play, and continue playing the game. Not seeing an issue.
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That's not really what he's talking about. There's a difference between your character actively talking to someone about a current situation, and listening to something recorded previously.
 
Gaz_RB said:
That's not really what he's talking about. There's a difference between your character actively talking to someone about a current situation, and listening to something recorded previously.
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You get new cassettes as new situations occur, so it's effectively the same thing.
 
bananafactory said:
You missed the point of his post.
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No, I didn't. I was responding to the second part. Any idiot knows it's about context. There's two camps, the people who want it like it always was. Bad writing, while you stare at heads and press a button to move it along. And the other, considering it fine and dandy letting the tapes flesh out the characters and story as you actually get to play the game. Bad writing or no, I'm not forced to sit there and wait for things to happen.
 
Exploratory said:
Tapes v Codecs is a dumb argument. It's about context. Taped are just audio clips of random conversations. Codec calls are about context. I'm interacting with someone about something in front of me in the moment. It's like the difference between having a conversation with someone and listening to a pre recorded one. It's not the same thing.

Also you realize you can just pop open the codec and call when you're interested in learning something but with taped you have to open up the menu and look through tapes. It'd be better if you got a happy medium where they just gave you the choice to listen to a tape contextually.
Click to expand...


Tapes in Peacewalker were like codecs, though. They aren't just audio logs. You play them, then Snake and someone else will talk about it. There were also conversations you can choose to listen to before you start a mission.

All this talk about codecs vs tapes are trivial at best. They're the same thing.
 
neoism said:
it a little bit ironic too every single release has had most poeple including big fans like me complaining about the long ass cutscenes it was insane in mgs4 lol... i wasnt on gaf when mgs3 came out but im sure it was there as well... mgs4 cut scenes were amazing in their own right but all where too long. almost everyone would skip them after seeing them once or twice...

i personally dont see the apeal of PW of the streams ive watched the game isnt that great for me... mostly because of the gameplay and the fact its a psp game but the story is good though.. i think kojima wants a less linear aproch to story telling to go along with the open world and non linear gameplay.
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It's also just the fact that forcing codec segments or constant cutscenes when you cross some invisible line on the map defeats the purpose of this outing. Open world, play how you want, stealth action.
 
cackhyena said:
No, I didn't. I was responding to the second part. Any idiot knows it's about context. There's two camps, the people who want it like it always was. Bad writing, while you stare at heads and press a button to move it along. And the other, considering it fine and dandy letting the tapes flesh out the characters and story as you actually get to play the game. Bad writing or no, I'm not forced to sit there and wait for things to happen.
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Honestly this talk about playing while listening, how are you going to focus on what's being said? On top of that if Kaz talks or anything it'll overlap with what you're listening which makes it annoying.

For me in MGS5, I will do the same thing I did in GZ. Hide in a quiet place to listen to the tape which is the same thing the previous MGS games did lol. On top of that, with the codecs you get the reactions, revelations and everything from the get go intertwined with the plot itself, the codec was an extension of you and you had the option to get more out of it since it ain't pre-recorded. Bad writing or not, MGS has always been about the batshit insane over the top plot that somehow kind of makes sense with sprinkles of realistic war related issues.
 
Death Metalist said:
Honestly this talk about playing while listening, how are you going to focus on what's being said? On top of that if Kaz talks or anything it'll overlap with what you're listening which makes it annoying.

For me in MGS5, I will do the same thing I did in GZ. Hide in a quiet place to listen to the tape which is the same thing the previous MGS games did lol. On top of that, with the codecs you get the reactions, revelations and everything from the get go intertwined with the plot itself, the codec was an extension of you and you had the option to get more out of it since it ain't pre-recorded. Bad writing or not, MGS has always been about the batshit insane over the top plot that somehow kind of makes sense with sprinkles of realistic war related issues.
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I mean I can see myself listening to tapes a lot during Free Roam stuff - collecting plants, animals, materials etc.
 
ramyeon said:
I mean I can see myself listening to tapes a lot during Free Roam stuff - collecting plants, animals, materials etc.
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Hopefully whatever Kaz or Ocelot says doesn't overlap with what I'm listening because it annoyed me when it happened in GZ so I opted to just hide and listen lol.
 
Exploratory said:
Tapes v Codecs is a dumb argument. It's about context. Taped are just audio clips of random conversations. Codec calls are about context. I'm interacting with someone about something in front of me in the moment. It's like the difference between having a conversation with someone and listening to a pre recorded one. It's not the same thing.

Also you realize you can just pop open the codec and call when you're interested in learning something but with taped you have to open up the menu and look through tapes. It'd be better if you got a happy medium where they just gave you the choice to listen to a tape contextually.
Click to expand...

Can't you just point at something with your binocs and press L1 to radio in?
 
Dunno why people are surprised that it's different. I've mentioned it before, but I'll outline it.

MGS2 fine tuned the codec experience.
MGS3 took away with the talking heads, added little moving slides.
MGS4 did away with the slides, and made it a one-sided video of a talking head. The dialogue was also a bit more limited, you had Otacon and Rose.(Maybe some other ones but I don't recall). However it was noticeable that they would repeat dialogue pretty quickly in comparison to previous games. Most of the dialogue was in cutscenes, and you have Snake doing the 'Huh, nanomachines? Foxdie? This or that?'. It's a running joke that that all Snake knows what to do is go 'Huh? Hruh?' and repeating things just said to him. Constantly. It's one sided dialogue. This is prevalent in all the games, most MGS1 and MGS4, there are moments where there is actual dialogue, but those are sparse.
PW went with the tape system. Stops gameplay, and you hear the tape.

TPP went to a hybrid system. You can radio in for contextual calls by pointing at something and hitting L1. There's also a cassette system that doesn't stop the gameplay like PW did. In cassettes you can hear dialogue between multiple parties, even those not involving Keifer. And it seems(From Greg Millers playthrough #1) that you earn main cassettes after beating missions. You can also find cassettes out in the battlefield, from music to dialogues to random banter such as a toiler recording.

It's different. It stops Snake from repeating dialogue just said to him through a codec, in order to 'include' him into the conversation. Instead, the tapes contain actual written dialogue between two people. Not just one person talking and the other repeating what was just said.

Like I've mentioned, it's an evolution of the system.
 
Death Metalist said:
Honestly this talk about playing while listening, how are you going to focus on what's being said? On top of that if Kaz talks or anything it'll overlap with what you're listening which makes it annoying.

For me in MGS5, I will do the same thing I did in GZ. Hide in a quiet place to listen to the tape which is the same thing the previous MGS games did lol. On top of that, with the codecs you get the reactions, revelations and everything from the get go intertwined with the plot itself, the codec was an extension of you and you had the option to get more out of it since it ain't pre-recorded. Bad writing or not, MGS has always been about the batshit insane over the top plot that somehow kind of makes sense with sprinkles of realistic war related issues.
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I get that. It could be distracting at points sometimes. Overall I listened while I played and found it more enjoyable, though. Like in my previous post, though, I don't get how you make codecs and this gameplay work. Forcing you to do anything you aren't initiating on your own just goes against what Kojima seems to be wanting out of this title.
 
It's blowing me away that people are actually trying to argue that the codec and cassette tapes are the same thing. To me, that's like saying there's no difference between seeing a band perform live and listening to mp3s. You're getting the same music, but it's a fundamentally different experience.
 
cackhyena said:
I get that. It could be distracting at points sometimes. Overall I listened while I played and found it more enjoyable, though. Like in my previous post, though, I don't get how you make codecs and this gameplay work. Forcing you to do anything you aren't initiating on your own just goes against what Kojima seems to be wanting out of this title.
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I agree in the sense that I also can't see how codec would work in an open world setting(Kojima would probably have to write 100,000,000 lines of dialogue). As much as I loved it. It's a very small thing though but I am enjoying discussing about it haha, anything to pass up the time I guess.

It's a testament to Koji and co that every game plays very differently and while the base game of the first 4 games are the same with the mechanics being different, I am in the camp that loves the point A to point B approach but I also welcome the open world approach of PW even though I don't love it. I liked PW only after a long while, when I knew I had to grind and shit. I was playing it wrong, just going from mission to mission to see what happens next in the story lol.
 
Berserker976 said:
It's blowing me away that people are actually trying to argue that the codec and cassette tapes are the same thing. To me, that's like saying there's no difference between seeing a band perform live and listening to mp3s. You're getting the same music, but it's a fundamentally different experience.
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Have you played Peacewalker? Snake and co.talk to each other and you don't just listen to audio logs. They're the same thing, except now you don't have to pause or go to a separate screen to see them talking.

Why are people making such a big deal over it, I don't even know. Majority of codecs can be relegated to audio logs anyway. Most of it are Q&As and not some meaningful banter or dialogue.
 
Berserker976 said:
It's blowing me away that people are actually trying to argue that the codec and cassette tapes are the same thing. To me, that's like saying there's no difference between seeing a band perform live and listening to mp3s. You're getting the same music, but it's a fundamentally different experience.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but this is a really bad analogy.
 
Roronoa said:
Have you played Peacewalker? Snake and co.talk to each other and you don't just listen to audio logs. They're the same thing, except now you don't have to pause or go to a separate screen to see them talking.
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Yeah, I have. That's where my argument stems from. Like I said, you're still getting the same content, but it's pre-recorded. They aren't conversations happening in real time. That makes tapes a fundamentally different way of serving you these conversations. I would argue a far less interesting way.
 
SandMan2233 said:
BELIEVE. Or get it on PC, since you can do custom music in-game. That's what I'll be doing, heheh.
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If Kojima didn't pick it then it's nothing at alllll :(

Look at these relevant lyrics!

You gave them all those old time stars
Through wars of worlds invaded by Mars
You made 'em laugh, you made 'em cry
You made us feel like we could fly.
Radio.

So don't become some background noise
A backdrop for the girls and boys
Who just don't know or just don't care
And just complain when you're not there

You had your time, you had the power
You've yet to have your finest hour
Radio, Radio.

....

We watch the shows, we watch the stars
On videos for hours and hours
We hardly need to use our ears
How music changes through the years.

Let's hope you never leave old friend
Like all good things on you we depend
So stick around 'cause we might miss you
When we grow tired of all this visual
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Ok so it's not all that relevant. STILL
 
Will soldiers eventually react to moving shadows when sneaking up beside them? That's the only thing that broke my immersion while watching the review trailers as they talk about AI, but it looks very fun as I like stealthy games.
 
cackhyena said:
? You find the tape, press play, and continue playing the game. Not seeing an issue.
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Neo you dodged it perfectly.

Rapier said:
Can't you just point at something with your binocs and press L1 to radio in?
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If it's anything like ground Zeroes that won't be the same thing at all. Usually it's not a conversation it's a single line of unnecessary dialogue.

"It's a light". Yeah no shit thanks Miller.

Roronoa said:
Tapes in Peacewalker were like codecs, though. They aren't just audio logs. You play them, then Snake and someone else will talk about it. There were also conversations you can choose to listen to before you start a mission.

All this talk about codecs vs tapes are trivial at best. They're the same thing.
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They literally aren't the same thing. That's the most mind boggling thing ive read on GAF lately. I mean saying you think tapes are better I can understand I highly disagree but I understand the opinion. Saying they're the same is factually and objectively inaccurate.

cj_iwakura said:
You get new cassettes as new situations occur, so it's effectively the same thing.
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If I can pick up a new gun and then I just automatically get a tape about that gun it's the same thing. If not it isn't the same thing.

cackhyena said:
No, I didn't. I was responding to the second part. Any idiot knows it's about context. There's two camps, the people who want it like it always was. Bad writing, while you stare at heads and press a button to move it along. And the other, considering it fine and dandy letting the tapes flesh out the characters and story as you actually get to play the game. Bad writing or no, I'm not forced to sit there and wait for things to happen.
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"There's two camps. The dumb camp that doesn't like what I like. And right camp the one that likes wha..well you get the idea."
 
Can anyone suggest a video(s) that would sufficiently recap the relevant MGS games stories?

I played MGS 1-3 but it was ten years ago, and I never played 4 or PW.
 
Jobbs said:
Can anyone suggest a video(s) that would sufficiently recap the relevant MGS games stories?

I played MGS 1-3 but it was ten years ago, and I never played 4 or PW.
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KefkaProduction has movie versions (all cutscenes and a bit of gameplay whenever it fits, around a couple of hours per video/movie) of all MGS games, check out their channel on Youtube. You'd be fine just watching 3 and PW as TPP is a direct sequel to those. 1, 2 and 4 take place later chronologically.

I personally watched the PW movie and I'm planning to replay 1, 2 and 4 after TPP.
 
Muntu said:
KefkaProduction has movie versions (all cutscenes and a bit of gameplay whenever it fits, around a couple of hours per video/movie) of all MGS games, check out their channel on Youtube. You'd be fine just watching 3 and PW as TPP is a direct sequel to those. 1, 2 and 4 take place later chronologically.

I personally watched the PW movie and I'm planning to replay 1, 2 and 4 after TPP.
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I'm kinda hoping for more like a streamlined summary, I don't really want to spend hours watching cutscenes.
 
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