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Rumor (with a side of salt): Shovel Knight coming to Smash Wii U/3DS?

If we're doing this whole crow eating thing again sign me up for Team Fake.
I really don't want Shovel Knight in. Like people said, he'd be the most recent Smash character in the game and has no history with Nintendo at all. It would feel pretty lame to have him in.

But I WILL enjoy a Meta Knight secret boss battle in the Wii U version of Shovel Knight. That will do nicely.
 
Zalman said:
No matter how good his game is, Shovel Knight's inclusion would cheapen the roster for me. You don't just allow anyone into the game. If it's not a Nintendo character, it has to be a big, iconic one. Shovel Knight is neither. His game isn't even out in Japan. Sakurai might not even have played the game yet.

Him getting an amiibo is absolutely great news if true. It shows that NCL is paying attention to the indie scene and is willing to invest in it. Getting an amiibo is a huge accomplishment in itself since the quality of the game reached out all the way to Nintendo in Japan. I never expected that to happen. However, including him in Smash is a step too far in my mind considering what the game has stood for throughout all these years. It's a Nintendo party first and foremost with very few exceptions. These exceptions are reserved to characters that represent our medium. Shovel Knight is only a year old and has only been in one game that isn't even Nintendo-exclusive. It just doesn't make sense to me.
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Not a chance in hell that Sakurai hasn't played the game if SK gets in. Hell, if he gets in its probably because of Sakurai playing the game.
 
fhqwhgads said:
If we're doing this whole crow eating thing again sign me up for Team Fake.
I really don't want Shovel Knight in. Like people said, he'd be the most recent Smash character in the game and has no history with Nintendo at all. It would feel pretty lame to have him in.

But I WILL enjoy a Meta Knight secret boss battle in the Wii U version of Shovel Knight. That will do nicely.
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he did launch first on Nintendo systems (and pc I guess)
 
After all this hype it'll turn out they've just been invited to design an official DLC stage for Mario Maker.
 
jacobeid said:
I disagree with this but I'd be curious to see how you feel about Pac Man's inclusion.

Also Shovel Knight is just a great character that would fit well into the Smash aesthetic/playstyle.

Really don't understand how this "cheapens" the game to anyone, but alright.
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Pacman is such an iconic character, and he's been on plenty of Nintendo systems so I have no problem with him.


If you people just want an indie rep, why not go with Shantae? She at least have a long history with Nintendo, unlike Shovel Knight who is literally out on every current platform with only one game.
 
jacobeid said:
I disagree with this but I'd be curious to see how you feel about Pac Man's inclusion.
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I can't speak for Jumpslash, but...
  • Pac-Man was Donkey Kong's biggest rival/competitor in the early '80s
  • The NES port of Pac-Man sold over a million copies
  • Shigeru Miyamoto designed Pac-Man Vs. for GameCube
  • Pac-Man is included in the Mario Kart Arcade GP series
  • There are several Nintendo-exclusive Pac-Man games, such as Pac-Pix, Pac 'n Roll, Namco Museum Remix, Pac-Man Party, and Pac-Man & Galaga Dimensions
 
Jumpslash said:
Pacman is such an iconic character, and he's been on plenty of Nintendo systems so I have no problem with him.


If you people just want an indie rep, why not go with Shantae? She at least have a long history with Nintendo, unlike Shovel Knight who is literally out on every current platform with only one game.
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Shovel Knight has way more critical acclaim than Shantae.
 
Is Shantae an indie character? Half genie hero was crowd funded yes but does that make her Indie? Are we considering Ryo from Shenmue to be an indie as well?
 
BassForever said:
Is Shantae an indie character? Half genie hero was crowd funded yes but does that make her Indie? Are we considering Ryo from Shenmue to be an indie as well?
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While WayForward is a decently sized developer they're still independent, and the Shantae property is owned by Bozon. Technically yes, she's indie.
 
I don't get the Shovel Knight hate. I do, however, understand wanting other (arguably more deserving) characters in first. I myself want Bomberman or Simon Belmont.

But to loath the idea of Shovel Knight getting in, going so far as to say it cheapens the roster? That's just silly. Shovel Knight is a tremendously successful and popular game, built not only with the visuals of the NES, but the design inspiration of many of Nintendo's classic iconic games. Shovel Knight is a love-letter to Nintendo, and about as Nintendo as a game can be outside of one officially developed by them.

His game even launched console first on Wii U and 3DS, a considerable time before it showed up on other systems.

If you're gonna pick an indie character (and it's debatable whether or not you should) Shovel Knight is a pretty big no-brainer to me.
 
Jumpslash said:
Pacman is such an iconic character, and he's been on plenty of Nintendo systems so I have no problem with him.


If you people just want an indie rep, why not go with Shantae? She at least have a long history with Nintendo, unlike Shovel Knight who is literally out on every current platform with only one game.
Click to expand...

It just seems weird that you're arguing for Pac Man even though the character's history is pretty entrenched in *another* company's history despite having plenty of games on Nintendo systems. Hell, I'd argue that Pac Man's history is more intricately linked to the arcade history than console history. Nothing about Pac Man makes him *feel* like a Nintendo character.

On the other hand, Shovel Knight is a love letter to the NES era, and arguably the Nintendo aesthetic. I'd also say that the Kickstarter, heavy marketing on the Nintendo eshop, and timed exclusivity (I mean this by the mere nature of YSG releasing the game on PS4/XB1 months and months and months later than Wii U/3DS, not through a contract like Rise of the Tomb Raider). His character model is great, translates well to smash, and is clearly quite popular.

Still don't understand how his rumored inclusion cheapens Smash for anyone. I get wanting others over SK, but cheapening the game for you? Come on.

Also to answer your question.....Shovel Knight just has way more consumer exposure these days than Shantae. Full stop.

superNESjoe said:
I don't get the Shovel Knight hate. I do, however, understand wanting other (arguably more deserving) characters in first. I myself want Bomberman or Simon Belmont.

But to loath the idea of Shovel Knight getting in, going so far as to say it cheapens the roster? That's just silly. Shovel Knight is a tremendously successful and popular game, built not only with the visuals of the NES, but the design inspiration of many of Nintendo's classic iconic games. Shovel Knight is a love-letter to Nintendo, and about as Nintendo as a game can be outside of one officially developed by them.

His game even launched console first on Wii U and 3DS, a considerable time before it showed up on other systems.
Click to expand...

Holy shit lol. My man.
 
BassForever said:
Is Shantae an indie character? Half genie hero was crowd funded yes but does that make her Indie? Are we considering Ryo from Shenmue to be an indie as well?
Click to expand...
Shantae would be the much more baffling decision if you ask me. I'd take Shovel Knight over her a million times.
 
jacobeid said:
It just seems weird that you're arguing for Pac Man even though the character's history is pretty entrenched in *another* company's history despite having plenty of games on Nintendo systems. Hell, I'd argue that Pac Man's history is more intricately linked to the arcade history than console history. Nothing about Pac Man makes him *feel* like a Nintendo character.

On the other hand, Shovel Knight is a love letter to the NES era, and arguably the Nintendo aesthetic. I'd also say that the Kickstarter, heavy marketing on the Nintendo eshop, and timed exclusivity (I mean this by the mere nature of YSG releasing the game on PS4/XB1 months and months and months later than Wii U/3DS, not through a contract like Rise of the Tomb Raider). His character model is great, translates well to smash, and is clearly quite popular.

Still don't understand how his rumored inclusion cheapens Smash for anyone. I get wanting others over SK, but cheapening the game for you? Come on.
Click to expand...
The point is that Pac-Man is iconic and therefore worthy of being in the roster. He's up there with Mario and we can let him through because of that. However, there are many more reasons why Pac-Man is in. He's Miyamoto's favorite character. Heck, he even made his own Pac-Man game on the GameCube. Not only that, but Namco was developing Smash 4. Not having Pac-Man in would actually be strange, not the other way around.
 
#TeamFake. Maybe a Shovel Knight in-game item Trophy to use in battle, or a Miiverse costume, but no chance he is a full-on playable character in the game. There is no reason to expect him to be one, nor does the character/franchise have the acclaim to earn a spot on the roster. People will be disappointed when it doesn't happen.
 
Ryce said:
Far worse than that: 700,000.
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Yeah. SK received critical acclaim, but so did games like Bayonetta 2 and that sold about as well (maybe a bit less, but combined with the sales of the first game she's still more well known and the 2nd game is 100% Nintendo exclusive even made by them).
I wouldn't mind these weird choices if the they made more sense or at least if they didn't have so many other characters that should fit the bill better.
SK launched on PC, 3DS, and Wii U but then came out on a ton of other platforms with even more content.
Even characters that make little sense like Snake and Ryu had more history with Nintendo while being super iconic.
 
jacobeid said:
Holy shit lol. My man.
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Hey man, I guess a lot of people don't agree but whatever, I really don't think it's so crazy.

Ryce said:
Far worse than that: 700,000.
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Oh yeah, SK hasn't gotten anywhere near 2 mil, but 700k is really successful for a first game that nobody saw coming. It's still selling pretty well continuously, and I'm pretty sure has outsold some of Nintendo's Wii U games.
 
Ryce said:
Far worse than that: 700,000.
Click to expand...

Still more then Xenoblade Chronicles on wii :P

Yes I realize all those XC sales were on wii and SK is spread across pc/wiiu/3ds/x1/ps4/vita but still I don't think sales numbers should be a deciding factor here. If anything the idea of a character who's popular with a broader audience makes sense as dlc as it could get people who like sk to jump into smash wiiu and buy his dlc/amiibo.
 
superNESjoe said:
Hey man, I guess a lot of people don't agree but whatever, I really don't think it's so crazy.



Oh yeah, SK hasn't gotten anywhere near 2 mil, but 700k is really successful for a first game that nobody saw coming. It's still selling pretty well continuously, and I'm pretty sure has outsold some of Nintendo's Wii U games.
Click to expand...
not to mention it's an indie that's never been put on sale or bundled. Most higher indies have been out much longer and been on sale or in humble bundles frequently
 
Zalman said:
The point is that Pac-Man is iconic and therefore worthy of being in the roster. He's up there with Mario and we can let him through because of that. However, there are many more reasons why Pac-Man is in. He's Miyamoto's favorite character. Heck, he even made his own Pac-Man game on the GameCube. Not only that, but Namco was developing Smash 4. Not having Pac-Man in would actually be strange, not the other way around.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with a single thing that you said, but I still feel that Pac-Man is inherently entrenched in, and associated with, arcade culture more so than console culture and the poster I was addressing felt that SK has no Nintendo legacy. I just felt that that was a weird way to address it considering that Pac-Man is pretty synonymous with Atari and arcades, not Nintendo.

For the record, I like Pac-Man in Smash. Just trying to understand why people are so against SK. I just don't understand how his inclusion CHEAPENS (key word here) the game for anyone.
 
BassForever said:
Still more then Xenoblade Chronicles on wii :P

Yes I realize all those XC sales were on wii and SK is spread across pc/wiiu/3ds/x1/ps4/vita but still I don't think sales numbers should be a deciding factor here. If anything the idea of a character who's popular with a broader audience makes sense as dlc as it could get people who like sk to jump into smash wiiu and buy his dlc/amiibo.
Click to expand...

Xenoblade sold 1.1 Million on the wii
 
Aaronrules380 said:
not to mention it's an indie that's never been put on sale or bundled. Most higher indies have been out much longer and been on sale or in humble bundles frequently
Click to expand...

Right. Those numbers in general simply aren't bad. I think it's higher than Xenoblade Chronicles and Wonderful 101(correct me if I'm wrong). People are fine with Shulk being in the game, and seem to be rooting for Wonder Red.
 
jacobeid said:
It just seems weird that you're arguing for Pac Man even though the character's history is pretty entrenched in *another* company's history despite having plenty of games on Nintendo systems. Hell, I'd argue that Pac Man's history is more intricately linked to the arcade history than console history. Nothing about Pac Man makes him *feel* like a Nintendo character.

On the other hand, Shovel Knight is a love letter to the NES era, and arguably the Nintendo aesthetic. I'd also say that the Kickstarter, heavy marketing on the Nintendo eshop, and timed exclusivity (I mean this by the mere nature of YSG releasing the game on PS4/XB1 months and months and months later than Wii U/3DS, not through a contract like Rise of the Tomb Raider). His character model is great, translates well to smash, and is clearly quite popular.

Still don't understand how his rumored inclusion cheapens Smash for anyone. I get wanting others over SK, but cheapening the game for you? Come on.

Also to answer your question.....Shovel Knight just has way more consumer exposure these days than Shantae. Full stop.
Click to expand...

Because Pacman has a ton of legacy, is one of the most iconic gaming figures and also has a good history on Nintendo systems. Namco also developed Smash 4, so they obviously wanted him in which is pretty fair.

It doesn't really matter that Shovel Knight took inspiration from old Nintendo games, almost every indie game does that. Like I said, he isn't exclusive to Nintendo platforms. He has one game. He is only a year old.

Those three points put together should be an automatic disqualify him from being in smash.

I don't really want Shantae in either, but you could argue way better for her inclusion than for Shovel Knight.
 
I sort of agree with the whole “roster cheapening” aspect of a potential Shovel Knight inclusion.

I’m open to pretty much any Nintendo character making the cut. Smash Bros. is a Nintendo game celebrating Nintendo’s history, and there are bound to be a few C-listers in a roster of over 50 characters. On the other hand, I think guest characters should be super important industry icons with rich histories who fully deserve to crash Nintendo’s private party. They’re a special occasion. Up until now, each of the five Smash Bros. guest characters have fulfilled this criteria. Shovel Knight doesn’t. He’s way too new and way too obscure. He appeared in one game last year that sold 700,000 copies.

Don’t get me wrong — I’m not calling Shovel Knight a bad game or anything. I just don’t think he should be in Smash Bros.
 
superNESjoe said:
Right. Those numbers in general simply aren't bad. I think it's higher than Xenoblade Chronicles and Wonderful 101(correct me if I'm wrong). People are fine with Shulk being in the game, and seem to be rooting for Wonder Red.
Click to expand...
Shulk is fine because he's a first-party character. Lower barrier of entry. If you're a third-party character, you have to be something special. Even Sakurai has expressed this.
 
superNESjoe said:
Right. Those numbers in general simply aren't bad. I think it's higher than Xenoblade Chronicles and Wonderful 101(correct me if I'm wrong). People are fine with Shulk being in the game, and seem to be rooting for Wonder Red.
Click to expand...
Xenoblade is a Nintendo owned IP, so is W101. Super Smash Bros is a game celebrating the history of video games relating to Nintendo. Getting a 3rd party indie character that hasn't even sold 1 million units over some of their other characters seems foolish.
Pacman is super iconic, Sonic (while questionable quality wise) has always been popular, Ryu and Megaman also.
 
I really think we should see Shovel Knight as the Ice Climbers of third parties.

On their own the franchises may be far from rubbing shoulders with the big names in the industry. But they're more than just the IP they come from; they're symbolic representations of something bigger. Much like how the Ice Climbers represent Nintendo's NES era and how Pacman represents Namco's arcade one, I'd see Shovel Knight as representing the indie community in general.

Seen that way, doesn't his inclusion make a lot of sense?
 
Ryce said:
I sort of agree with the whole “roster cheapening” aspect of a potential Shovel Knight inclusion.

I’m open to pretty much any Nintendo character making the cut. Smash Bros. is a Nintendo game celebrating Nintendo’s history, and there are bound to be a few C-listers in a roster of over 50 characters. On the other hand, I think guest characters should be super important industry icons with rich histories who fully deserve to crash Nintendo’s private party. They’re a special occasion. Up until now, each of the five Smash Bros. guest characters have fulfilled this criteria. Shovel Knight doesn’t. He’s way too new and way too obscure. He appeared in one game last year that sold 700,000 copies.

Don’t get me wrong — I’m not calling Shovel Knight a bad game or anything. I just don’t think he should be in Smash Bros.
Click to expand...

The bolded I kind of have an issue with. 700k in one year is better than some Nintendo games do. The game has only been out one year, and 700k is a pretty good number for a small game like that. Shovel Knight isn't really obscure. Something like Wonderful 101 is obscure, but Shovel Knight has sold quite well in that first year and continues to sell well on a monthly basis.

Not that I'm necessarily arguing that he should be in the game or that other points aren't valid, but I wouldn't call Shovel Knight obscure or make light of 700k moved units.
 
Jumpslash said:
Because Pacman has a ton of legacy, is one of the most iconic gaming figures and also has a good history on Nintendo systems. Namco also developed Smash 4, so they obviously wanted him in which is pretty fair.

It doesn't really matter that Shovel Knight took inspiration from old Nintendo games, almost every indie game does that. Like I said, he isn't exclusive to Nintendo platforms. He has one game. He is only a year old.

Those three points put together should be an automatic disqualify him from being in smash.

I don't really want Shantae in either, but you could argue way better for her inclusion than for Shovel Knight.
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Does the poll not factor into this at all?

Again, I don't really disagree with you other than the fact that you feel like SK should just be straight up disqualified.

Can anyone explain to me why they feel that including SK cheapens Smash for them?
 
The idea that a character needs to deserve to be in Smash is so frivolous to me, and even more when the ballot asked for people to vote for whomever they wanted as long as they were a video game character. It's literally the only rule.
 
Zalman said:
Shulk is fine because he's a first-party character. Lower barrier of entry. If you're a third-party character, you have to be something special. Even Sakurai has expressed this.
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That's why I see this as wrong


I mean they really putting shovel knight in the same list as Ryu, Snake, MegaMan?


Lmao

If it's ballot sure whatever you guys voted wrong but I doubt this came from Sakurai himself (hopefully)
 
superNESjoe said:
The bolded I kind of have an issue with. 700k in one year is better than some Nintendo games do. The game has only been out one year, and 700k is a pretty good number for a small game like that. Shovel Knight isn't really obscure. Something like Wonderful 101 is obscure, but Shovel Knight has sold quite well in that first year and continues to sell well on a monthly basis.

Not that I'm necessarily arguing that he should be in the game or that other points aren't valid, but I wouldn't call Shovel Knight obscure or make light of 700k moved units.
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Third-party characters should be in the company of Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, and Mega Man, not Lucas, Roy, and Shulk.
 
I honestly get the argument about him not having the history/legacy to be in Smash

I get the counter argument about him being more of an indie ambassador in Smash

I want him in Smash because he's got a great design, great potential for a moveset, and comes form a great game I'd love to see have more exposure.

I also want him more in smash to see the epic amount of salt that'll be produced by people who claim he'll lessen the impact of Smash and it's roster somehow. Last I saw unless you're slicesaber Ryu hasn't ruined Smash or impacted the roster, and Snake still looks horribly out of place compared to the rest of the franchises on display.

People said Smash would be first party only, then Snake happened

People said 3rd party characters needed to have this historic legacy on nintendo, maybe SK will happen to shoot down that rule as well.
 
Now now, I think we can all agree that If you don't want Shovel Knight in your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.
 
Zalman said:
Shulk is fine because he's a first-party character. Lower barrier of entry. If you're a third-party character, you have to be something special. Even Sakurai has expressed this.
Click to expand...
Sakurai says alot of things. If Sakurai played and liked Shovel Knight after seeing him high up in the ballot and wanted him in, he'd add him. End of story.


This whole third parties must be truly iconic stuff is laughable at best.
 
I agree with the "cheapening" the roster sentiments. I think it's also kinda strange to justify Shovel Knight as an "indie" rep. Seems like a very artificial way of inflating Shovel Knight's importance with titles that have no relation to his game whatsoever.
 
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