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[Days like these...]

Think we would stand for it? lol if this happens it's because a majority voted for it. Of course we would stand for it. lol

I don't think white savior complex works against your own people.

 

[exmachina64]

My post from 8-30-2015 in Poligaf:

Summer of Sanity: Bernie leads the national polls by 20 percent over his Republican opponent.
Fall of the Wall: The electorate tears down the Republican wall by flipping both chambers of congress.
Winter of Winning: Bernie and Elizabeth take the keys to the White House and save our planet.

You know that's not going to happen, right?

 

[zero shift]

It really speaks volumes of our democratic system and how much of a spine the left wing has in the country when people yell "Don't vote for that person! Even if you agree with them it can backfire!"

 

[dehydratedbabies]

The country has a deep rooted fear of anyone who labels themselves as a socialist, even if they might agree with socialist policies.

Bernie labels himself a Democratic socialist, not a socialist. In a Sanders vs Trump scenario, what do you envision happening that would prevent a Sanders victory?

 

[noshten]

Bernie labels himself a Democratic socialist, not a socialist. In a Sanders vs Trump scenario, what do you envision happening that would prevent a Sanders victory?

Apparently only the anointed one has a chance against the political juggernaut that is Trump.

 

[Ayt]

The country has a deep rooted fear of anyone who labels themselves as a socialist, even if they might agree with socialist policies.

Isn't our current president a black muslim Kenyan socialist?

 

[dehydratedbabies]

Isn't our current president a black muslim Kenyan socialist?

Actually, he's the Antichrist.

 

[exmachina64]

You're scare mongering. Do you really think we would stand for that? We're not that backwards. At least I hope not.

You're looking at it wrongly It's not meant to 'teach the country a lesson' but instead to effect true and meaningful progress/change when people finally realize how fucked we are.

I don't really get what people mean when they say things like this. There are still going to be a huge number of Republicans and conservative states in the time frame you're talking about. What is less than half of the country going to do about "not standing for that" or "effecting true and meaningful change?"

Are you talking about staging a violent overthrow of the government?

 

[Bel Marduk]

The country has a deep rooted fear of anyone who labels themselves as a socialist, even if they might agree with socialist policies.

Used to be.

The cold war is long over.

Sanders is polling competitively with Trump and Bush right now.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Why do you think that Bernie would lose to Trump?

Because he's older, looks frail, and therefore comes off as weak to the uniformed masses. It's incredibly dumb, but the image you project is more important than your actual experience or policy preferences when it comes to winning the presidency.

 

[ErasureAcer]

You know that's not going to happen, right?

Don't underestimate Bernie Sanders.

 

[And_Gignac]

How does someone whose up 20 points nationally not get the nomination until July? She's winning Florida and SC in polls out this week by 20 points each. Of course those polls don't have threads.

Then you got endorsements and delegates which is basically hundreds vs 0 or close to zero last I checked.

endorsements lol

And well, Clinton was leading by 40 in Iowa and NH a couple of months ago. It could happen in the south too specially when the debates roll in and when Sanders wins the first two primaries.

 

[inner-G]

I hope the trend keeps up.

Hillary isn't liberal enough for me on a lot of important issues.

 

[Days like these...]

I don't really get what people mean when they say things like this. There are still going to be a huge number of Republicans and conservative states in the time frame you're talking about. What is less than half of the country going to do about "not standing for that" or "effecting true and meaningful change?"

Are you talking about staging a violent overthrow of the government?

Guatemala just ousted its president. *shrugs*

 

[BertramCooper]

You know that's not going to happen, right?

 

[LegendofJoe]

It really speaks volumes of our democratic system and how much of a spine the left wing has in the country when people yell "Don't vote for that person! Even if you agree with them it can backfire!"

Because it can and has backfired in the past. Jimmy Carter, the amazing man that he is, ushered in the era of Reagan and Bush. Politics is a game of small steps. We're not ready for someone like Bernie yet, but if we elect Hillary, flip the Supreme Court, and take back the house over the next 8 years we will be in 2024.

 

[Fenderputty]

Isn't our current president a black muslim Kenyan socialist?

Not self identified.

 

[exmachina64]

Guatemala just ousted its president. *shrugs*

You're being serious?

In the recent past, Guatemala was involved in a thirty-six year long civil war from 1960 to 1996. During that civil war, 93% of the human rights violations that occurred were through the actions of the government and paramilitaries that the CIA trained. The government of Guatemala seems to have been rife with corruption in the nineteen years since the war ended.

The situations in Guatemala and the United States are completely different and bringing that up didn't serve whatever point you were trying to make.

Wow.

 

[ErasureAcer]

People love Dennis Kucinich. Bernie is running on practically the same platform minus the Department of Peace.

 

[And_Gignac]

OMG. Messy.

 

[Pryce]

Between 18-34 Year Olds:

Clinton: 19%
Sanders: 66%

That's crazy.

 

[exmachina64]

People love Dennis Kucinich. Bernie is running on practically the same platform minus the Department of Peace.

People barely remember Dennis Kucinich.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Because it can and has backfired in the past. Jimmy Carter, the amazing man that he is, ushered in the era of Reagan and Bush. Politics is a game of small steps. We're not ready for someone like Bernie yet, but if we elect Hillary, flip the Supreme Court, and take back the house over the next 8 years we will be in 2024.

This. Bernie would be shredded alive in a national election. No thanks.

 

[ErasureAcer]

People barely remember Dennis Kucinich.

No one forgets Dennis. The problem was no one knew who he was. It's great to see Bernie running on the same ideas and overtaking Hillary in the first 2 contests. Nevada is third and I believe he'll win there too.

 

[Days like these...]

You're being serious?

In the recent past, Guatemala was involved in a thirty-six year long civil war from 1960 to 1996. During that civil war, 93% of the human rights violations that occurred were through the actions of the government and paramilitaries that the CIA trained. The government of Guatemala seems to have been rife with corruption in the nineteen years since the war ended.

The situations in Guatemala and the United States are completely different and bringing that up didn't serve whatever point you were trying to make.



Wow.

The point is we are too apathetic and/or spineless to do shit (even vote for the best candidate imho) as long as we have our huge flat screen televisons and handegg we will endure getting fucked.

Hey but at least we're not getting fucked as badly so its ok!

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

endorsements lol

And well, Clinton was leading by 40 in Iowa and NH a couple of months ago. It could happen in the south too specially when the debates roll in and when Sanders wins the first two primaries.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-endorsement-primary/

Hillary Clinton now has as many weighted endorsement points as Obama had the day he clinched the nomination in 2008

That kind of thing doesn't just go away because our friend Sanders won a state or two.

 

[LegendofJoe]

That's crazy.

That's awesome. But we damn well better still show up to vote if Hillary gets the nomination. I'm tired of my fellow millennials sitting out elections. We're progressive as fuck and that's amazing, but it won't mean jack crap if we continue to sulk when we don't get 100% of what we want.

 

[loki 16]

Bernie can win this!

 

[rainy_day]

Lots of support here in my town in FL.
If he can get Warren on the VP ticket that would be epic.
Feel The Bern!

 

[thelatestmodel]

Bernie can win this!

No, he can't.

I love the optimism, I love the grass roots campaigning, but there's no getting away from the truth. Doesn't mean he should stop or give up, but let's be real here.

 

[inner-G]

No, he can't.

I love the optimism, I love the grass roots campaigning, but there's no getting away from the truth. Doesn't mean he should stop or give up, but let's be real here.

Sure he can.

We haven't even had the first debate. I think Bernie will shine against her in such a setting.

He is super straightforward and talks so people can understand his ideas compared to Hillary with her guarded manner that can come off as cold and callous.

 

[dehydratedbabies]

Because he's older, looks frail, and therefore comes off as weak to the uniformed masses. It's incredibly dumb, but the image you project is more important than your actual experience or policy preferences when it comes to winning the presidency.

That's not a strong point, IMO. People are certainly influenced by superficial things like that (see: Donald Trump, Sarah Palin, etc.), but I don't think that Sanders is banking on the people that love bullshit to elect him. I think that his success (and to an extent, ironically, Trump's success) is proof that a yuge number of people are sick of bullshit. Are there enough? We'll see, but I think that the rapid social change we've seen in the past 10 years is evidence that people are ready for Sanders' realism

Because it can and has backfired in the past. Jimmy Carter, the amazing man that he is, ushered in the era of Reagan and Bush. Politics is a game of small steps. We're not ready for someone like Bernie yet, but if we elect Hillary, flip the Supreme Court, and take back the house over the next 8 years we will be in 2024.

Do you think that a Sanders presidency would "backfire"? Do you think that he would usher in a new age of conservatism?

 

[B-Dubs]

Sure he can.

We haven't even had the first debate. I think Bernie will shine against her in such a setting.

He is super straightforward and talks so people can understand his ideas compared to Hillary with her guarded manner that can come off as cold and callous.

Unless he makes big inroads with minority voters, no he can't. Also, you're discounting Hilary too easily. So long as she sticks to policy she's a very strong debater.

 

[inner-G]

So long as she sticks to policy she's a very strong debater.

She didn't come off as that great of one in the run against Obama, imo.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Trump would probably destroy Sanders. Not saying Clinton would do much better but Biden could do well.

Trump would remind people Sanders has been in Congress since 1991 and bully him around.

She didn't come off as that great of one in the run against Obama, imo.

Obama is one of the most charismatic candidates in a long time ago.

 

[shintoki]

Sure he can.

We haven't even had the first debate. I think Bernie will shine against her in such a setting.

He is super straightforward and talks so people can understand his ideas compared to Hillary with her guarded manner that can come off as cold and callous.

Exact opposite, He's going to come off looking frail and weak, even if his arguments are stronger. Think Kennedy vs Nixon. He doesn't have the same presence.

 

[Days like these...]

Exact opposite, He's going to come off looking frail and weak, even if his arguments are stronger. Think Kennedy vs Nixon. He doesn't have the same presence.

Frail and weak? Seriously? I cant with you. Can we go back to calling him a socialist I liked that excuse better.

 

[exmachina64]

No one forgets Dennis. The problem was no one knew who he was. It's great to see Bernie running on the same ideas and overtaking Hillary in the first 2 contests. Nevada is third and I believe he'll win there too.

Bookmarked.

The point is we are too apathetic and/or spineless to do shit (even vote for the best candidate imho) as long as we have our huge flat screen televisons and handegg we will endure getting fucked.

Hey but at least we're not getting fucked as badly so its ok!

And another post where you didn't make a coherent argument and avoided answering the question.

In your scenario where things continue to get worse as long as Bernie or a similar candidate isn't elected, you haven't answered whether you think the answer is liberals take up arms against a conservative government and the conservative elements of society.

But if things get to that point, I'm pretty sure you're not going to be fighting on the front lines.

 

[ivysaur12]

Oh man.

 

[teruterubozu]

Well, aside from the fact that she literally has 75% favorability among Democrats even in this poll, sure, let's just make shit up as we go along.

In this poll yeah. In the latest national gallup poll she's at her second lowest ever at 41%.

So sure, I'm making shit up.

 

[noshten]

Exact opposite, He's going to come off looking frail and weak, even if his arguments are stronger. Think Kennedy vs Nixon. He doesn't have the same presence.

When Bernie speaks the last thing he projects is weakness or frailty. At the very least he isn't projecting falseness, untrustworthiness and indecision the way his opponents do. He has his positions and when he argues them he comes of as a no nonsense candidate. Any gotcha questions will be snuffed out and he will insist moderators focus on issues instead of spectacle. If the electorate reject this in favor of Trumps insults than they simply deserve Donald as their President.

 

[diffusionx]

Because it can and has backfired in the past. Jimmy Carter, the amazing man that he is, ushered in the era of Reagan and Bush. Politics is a game of small steps. We're not ready for someone like Bernie yet, but if we elect Hillary, flip the Supreme Court, and take back the house over the next 8 years we will be in 2024.

The idea that Reagan was Carter's fault or had anything to do with Carter is simply wrong. Reagan was the end result of a couple decades of social change, unrest, and a budding conservative movement. A good book to read on this is "Nixonland" by Rick Perlstein.

I do agree that we may not be ready for Bernie but for all we know he is the equivalent of Goldwater in 1964. There's just no way of knowing.

 

[Knoxcore]

Joe Biden needs to get in ASAP and announce his intention to name Elizabeth Warren as his VP. My priority is electing a Democrat to the White House next year. I don't care which Democrat, but Hillary doesn't exude confidence right now.

 

[dehydratedbabies]

Exact opposite, He's going to come off looking frail and weak, even if his arguments are stronger. Think Kennedy vs Nixon. He doesn't have the same presence.

How will he "come off looking frail and weak", especially if his arguments are stronger? Can you post specific video examples that illustrate the "presence" that Hillary has and which Bernie lacks?

Here's 8.5 hours of Bernie Sanders being "frail" and "weak":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLNKNq9soLE

 

[Days like these...]

Bookmarked.



And another post where you didn't make a coherent argument and avoided answering the question.

In your scenario where things continue to get worse as long as Bernie or a similar candidate isn't elected, you haven't answered whether you think the answer is liberals take up arms against a conservative government and the conservative elements of society.

But if things get to that point, I'm pretty sure you're not going to be fighting on the front lines.

You don't know anything about me so go fuck yourself with your assumptions

 

[LegendofJoe]

That's not a strong point, IMO. People are certainly influenced by superficial things like that (see: Donald Trump, Sarah Palin, etc.), but I don't think that Sanders is banking on the people that love bullshit to elect him. I think that his success (and to an extent, ironically, Trump's success) is proof that a yuge number of people are sick of bullshit. Are there enough? We'll see, but I think that the rapid social change we've seen in the past 10 years is evidence that people are ready for Sanders' realism

You are entirely underestimating the importance of the image you project. The image that Obama projected was the number one reason why the country went crazy for him in 2008 (myself included). The fact that he was educated and in general had good policy views was the icing on the cake that sealed the deal.

I agree that a majority of the country is fed up with our current political system, but it's still not enough. Trump exudes power and fence sitters who don't pay attention normally are attracted to that and will vote for him. Sanders will bring out the youth vote, but he won't be able to bring out the minority vote and that is essential to electoral victory. Hillary will be able to put some southern states in play because of the minority vote and her appeal to moderates, Bernie has no chance of doing that.

Do you think that a Sanders presidency would "backfire"? Do you think that he would usher in a new age of conservatism?

If he decides to reach too far and alarms the wealthy then yes there will be a massive backlash. If we think there is too much money and corruption in politics now it would pale in comparison to what would be unleashed were Bernie to be elected president.

 

[ErasureAcer]

Joe Biden needs to get in ASAP and announce his intention to name Elizabeth Warren as his VP. My priority is electing a Democrat to the White House next year. I don't care which Democrat, but Hillary doesn't exude confidence right now.

Sorry, Warren will be endorsing and campaigning for Bernie during the Winter of Warren. Didn't you read the first post?

 

[ErasureAcer]

In your scenario where things continue to get worse as long as Bernie or a similar candidate isn't elected, you haven't answered whether you think the answer is liberals take up arms against a conservative government and the conservative elements of society.

I think your imagination would be better suited to a different thread. How bout you make it.

 

[JustenP88]

If he decides to reach too far and alarms the wealthy then yes there will be a massive backlash. If we think there is too much money and corruption in politics now it would pale in comparison to what would be unleashed were Bernie to be elected president.

So, in this thread we've had an argument that electing a batshit Republican won't cause a liberal backlash and another that says electing (batshit?) Bernie will cause a massive conservative backlash?

Are people just talking in circles or is this a commentary on the inherent lack of spine amongst liberals?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Sorry, Warren will be endorsing and campaigning for Bernie during the Winter of Warren. Didn't you read the first post?

Why the hell do people think Warren is some big deal? Most casual Democrats who only vote for President (meaning the majority of them) don't even know who she is or only recognize her name being brought up.