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[Glitchesarecool]

Uh.

Is there any reasonable explanation of Paz and that fucking retcon?

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Snake's face is killing me

 

[Venom Fox]

You do know that the catalyst for the MG story is a Mother figure right?

And there's really not a lot of father/son stuff going on with BB and his clones. To try and boil it down to a father son story seems kind of silly.

I guess I have no idea what you've been trying to say the past few pages.

Obviously it started with Snake and The Boss. MGS also is based around a father/sons type deal.
The sons have either tried to replicate his legend or are cleaning up his mess while also fighting for what Big Boss wanted anyway. It's not done in a typical way but it's stil centred around a father and his sons.

Big Boss was fighting to oppose Cipher because he didn't agree the population should be controlled.
Liquid basically tried to replicate his Outer Heaven and his legend while Solid Snake fought was tool used to kill his father bust also succeeded in destroying what Big Boss sought to oppose anyway.

A man and his sons.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Uh.

Is there any reasonable explanation of Paz and that fucking retcon?

The explanation is the one you got,

Spoiler

that the second explosion came from an RPG and not her.

Edited because you may have not actually got that far, lol

 

[Smooth Operator]

Uh.

Is there any reasonable explanation of Paz and that fucking retcon?

Just keep playing.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

Never mind that they entrusted Big Boss' legacy to his "best man" who we know nothing about. But he trusted it to someone with a big piece of shrapnel in his brain that even the doctor said could lead to hallucinations. They're lucky VS didn't shoot Ocelot or Real BB dead thinking he was some kind of demon phantom.

"Are you sure he can handle it?"
"Yeah, he was always our best man."
"No, I mean the big chunk of shrapnel lodged in his brain matter. Will hypnosis even work on him?"

 

[Dick Justice]

These are some of the first shots of the game, right?

 

[plebegamer]

That was MGS4, MGSV gives us more questions than answers, like:
Who died in 1941 that upset the Boss?
Why would Liquid trust Ocelot in his unit?

I don't think the dead war buddy or its equivalent is a real loose end to the MGS plot.

Also Liquid's eventual goals would line up with Big Boss and Ocelot, and was possibly working towards the freedom of Big Boss during the Shadow Moses incident, not actually chasing his remains.

 

[KorrZ]

The thing is, there was no need to explain how he survived at the end of MG1. That and the fact it retcons a fair amount of stuff like Liquid, Ocelot and Solidus's motives in future games and makes Solid Snake an even more tragic character when he didn't need to be.

Oh and I hate that it retcons the Zero in to having good intentions and Big Boss into having good intentions. As well, how the fuck did Kaz end up back at Foxhound with the real BB when he swore to kill him at the End?

I don't really see that as a retcon. Zero and Big Boss were both always in that area of "good intentions" that end up being total shit. BB says as much himself at the end of 4. Not too sure what you mean about retcon for Ocelot either. If anything that retcon happened in 3 when BB became an idol for Ocelot.

I agree though, that this wasn't really a plot hole that needed to be explained, but ultimately I kind of like it. It at least makes sense in my own "head canon".

 

[Einchy]

These are some of the first shots of the game, right?

These too.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

These are some of the first shots of the game, right?

Yeah. There were also those shots of the nurses showing off the lighting tech.

 

[Xpike]

That was MGS4, MGSV gives us more questions than answers, like:
Who died in 1941 that upset the Boss?
Why would Liquid trust Ocelot in his unit?

2nd answer is simple, it's because Kojima shoehorned Ocelot into this game because he needed someone both Zero and Big Boss could trust for his great ruse to work.

 

[jwhit28]

The thing is, there was no need to explain how he survived at the end of MG1. That and the fact it retcons a fair amount of stuff like Liquid, Ocelot and Solidus's motives in future games and makes Solid Snake an even more tragic character when he didn't need to be.

Oh and I hate that it retcons the Zero in to having good intentions and Big Boss into having good intentions. As well, how the fuck did Kaz end up back at Foxhound with the real BB when he swore to kill him at the End?

I'm guessing Kaz worked with Sigint's Cipher in order to gain influence over Solid Snake and use him to destroy Big Boss. Ocelot in turn used Liquid to destroy Kaz. Why Liquid trusted Ocelot I don't know.

 

[KOMANI]

2nd answer is simple, it's because Kojima shoehorned Ocelot into this game because he needed someone both Zero and Big Boss could trust for his great ruse to work.

They should have had Frank Jaeger as the other right hand man instead of Ocelot.

 

[Zabant]

These are some of the first shots of the game, right?

Looks like the changing of the BB model from that design in artwork to the 'Ground Zeroes BB but with a horn' design was a late decision.

I wonder why? God i hope it isn't because they were worried the general populace would not who 'snake' is without his mullet....

 

[ElFly]

So will we ever know, how much did being stuck on last gen contribute to some of the seemingly under-cooked content in this game? Probably not.

It's possible that it's the reason why the platforms are so far apart and the animals are their own thing, since originally they were supposed to be on the main platforms.

Hard to say.

Maybe being cross-gen helped the ps4/xbone versions achieve a 60fps target; otherwise, Kojima may have preferred to go 30fps with prettier graphics like every other open world game on consoles.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Looks like the changing of the BB model from that design in artwork to the 'Ground Zeroes BB but with a horn' design was a late decision.

I wonder why? God i hope it isn't because they were worried the general populace would not who 'snake' is without his mullet....

I mean, "late" is pretty relative here. I think these shots are from like 2012.

 

[Hasney]

Hard to say.

Maybe being cross-gen helped the ps4/xbone versions achieve a 60fps target; otherwise, Kojima may have preferred to go 30fps with prettier graphics like every other open world game on consoles.

Yup, and if that's the case, thank fuck for last gen. The 60fps really helps the game feel as amazing as it does.

 

[jwhit28]

They should have had Frank Jaeger as the other right hand man instead of Ocelot.

I don't even know why Kaz trusted Ocelot. He was just an old Big Boss friend from The Patriots/Cipher, the same group that blew up MSF.

 

[KOMANI]

I don't even know why Kaz trusted Ocelot. He was just an old Big Boss friend from The Patriots/Cipher, the same group that blew up MSF.

The story for this game makes no sense. It's a godsend that it's fun to play.

 

[Zabant]

I mean, "late" is pretty relative here. I think these shots are from like 2012.

Ah, I assumed they were far along as that pretty much looks like TPP to me, just missing a little polish perhaps.

Do we know when the artwork was produced?

 

[Ran rp]

These are some of the first shots of the game, right?

I remember some people joking about it being a Vita title.

 

[Ghostmaster]

I don't even know why Kaz trusted Ocelot. He was just an old Big Boss friend from The Patriots/Cipher, the same group that blew up MSF.

Why does anyone trust Ocelot? He just twirls his guns and everyone is cool with him.

 

[Einchy]

I don't know either, Kojima.

 

[Zabant]

I don't even know why Kaz trusted Ocelot. He was just an old Big Boss friend from The Patriots/Cipher, the same group that blew up MSF.

You're going to laugh.

He trusted him because ZERO told him Ocelot was legit...

I'm not kidding

Why Kaz even took a phonecall from Zero in the first place when he assumed he was responsible for MSF's demise is beyond me.

 

[Toa TAK]

I love the English VA.

Sure he sticks out like a sore thumb worse than Hayter, but he's so good at the same time.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Why does anyone trust Ocelot? He just twirls his guns and everyone is cool with him.

 

[Alienous]

Uh.

Is there any reasonable explanation of Paz and that fucking retcon?

There isn't

Spoiler

a retcon

.

Spoiler

When you finish the quest it is revealed that the events in that room were hallucinated by Venom Snake. Probably out of guilt for not finding the second bomb. Paz blew up like we saw her blow up in Ground Zeroes.

 

[GreyOcelot]

the most annoying and distracting thing about the acting in this game is troy baker's performance. the older cutscenes he sounds absolutely perfect. exactly what a younger version of mgs ocelot would sounds like (or an older version of mgs3), and all the tapes and newer shit (this is an assumption on my part) he sounds like just some random southerner. absolutely baffling

 

[ZeroX03]

A nuke has a 24 hour timer to build. I'm not mad, just because it's kind of useless. Just find it funny.

 

[Alienous]

the most annoying and distracting thing about the acting in this game is troy baker's performance. the older cutscenes he sounds absolutely perfect. exactly what a younger version of mgs ocelot would sounds like (or an older version of mgs3), and all the tapes and newer shit (this is an assumption on my part) he sounds like just some random southerner. absolutely baffling

I haven't heard it for myself, but I remember someone on NeoGAF saying that (I think in a YongYea interview) Troy Baker explained that Kojima asked for him to sound more like Joel from The Last of Us at some point in development.

But I haven't been able to find the quote for myself.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

I don't know either, Kojima.

Best one - https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/status/643242143025270785

"Kaz got very popular by his unexpected words in GZ." lol

 

[Zabant]

There isn't

Spoiler

a retcon

.

Spoiler

When you finish the quest it is revealed that the events in that room were hallucinated by Venom Snake. Probably out of guilt for not finding the second bomb. Paz blew up like we saw her blow up in Ground Zeroes.

Spoiler

IT WAS ALL A DREEEEEEM.

It's so cliché it's funny

 

[plebegamer]

I think he gets the tape in '95, possibly even during the events of MG1 as gunfire is heard outside the locker room.

The Diamond Dog logos are the real wildcard, but my guess is that they are likely symbolic. When he punches the mirror the logo in the reflection changes to the Outer Heaven logo. We see the DD logos we carried throughout the game, and then the mirror punch reveals that Diamond Dogs turned into Outer Heaven. That's a pretty flimsy interpretation, but eh. I dunno.

Kaz exists to be fiddled. By his dad, by Big Boss, by Phantom Boss, by Ocelot, by Liquid, by everyone. The man is a master of strings by the time he is dead.

Well the timeline stops in 84-85, shows the cut scenes where he gets the tape, where he's clearly still a diamond dog, and then continues as Outer Heaven.

Gun shots doesn't mean it's Operation Intrude N313. He's a mercenary, he's on battlefields with gunshots all the time. He's also somewhere where they're doing more field medicine, as seen by the removed bullets and blood everywhere.. If they were at Outer Heaven, they would have had proper medical facilities.

Besides, that sounds like way too much commotion for Operation Intrude N313 to be a successful sneaking mission.Canonically, Snake wasn't getting into too many fire fights.

I thought the mirror break was signifying the change, along with the logo swap.

Also, 10 year would give the bosses enough time to age into their proper appearances.

 

[Kama_1082]

There isn't

Spoiler

a retcon

.

Spoiler

When you finish the quest it is revealed that the events in that room were hallucinated by Venom Snake. Probably out of guilt for not finding the second bomb. Paz blew up like we saw her blow up in Ground Zeroes.

Hold the phone here. I'm still confused. I saw the cutscene when I entered the bay and saw her for the first time. Is there still more to the mission? Did I need to keep on going back to the medbay? I'm feeling lost.

 

[Resilient]

I don't know either, Kojima.

i don't know why either..............................................

 

[Moon_frogger]

It's subversion for the sake of subversion. Probably stems back to MGS1 when he wanted to make a new game but all the fans wanted was MGS2 and all Konami could see was the $$$$$ that MGS2 would bring.

He's still salty that he had to make only Metal Gear games for his entire life, so he took it out on the fans.

I never bought this. That Kojima is making games people will hate on purpose. Raiden for example was well received in Japan but not in America. That's a cultural difference, unless you truly believe Kojima hates his North American audience.

 

[Dick Justice]

Hold the phone here. I'm still confused. I saw the cutscene when I entered the bay and saw her for the first time. Is there still more to the mission? Did I need to keep on going back to the medbay? I'm feeling lost.

Go and see her again whenever you get those memento photos from the wandering MSF soldiers.

 

[Alienous]

Hold the phone here. I'm still confused. I saw the cutscene when I entered the bay and saw her for the first time. Is there still more to the mission? Did I need to keep on going back to the medbay? I'm feeling lost.

You do need to keep going back to the Medbay.

You have to Fulton the Wandering Mother Base Soldiers. Each one gives you a photograph, which advances the Paz 'quest'. When you give her the final photograph (which comes after the soldier photographs) you see the conclusion of the Paz thing.

 

[Zombie James]

I liked Skullface's voice actor ¯_(&#12484_/¯

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

I never bought this. That Kojima is making games people will hate on purpose. Raiden for example was well received in Japan but not in America. That's a cultural difference, unless you truly believe Kojima hates his North American audience.

Was he? It feels like Kojima didn't know what to do with Raiden. He made him a pretty boy to be more appealing to female players, but it MGS3 he made him a gay joke. Then in MGS4/MGR he's some badass cyborg ninja.

 

[Alienous]

I don't know either, Kojima.

WHOOOOOOO said those things.

Liar!

(And dat Horan ether)

 

[BlastProcessing]

Spoiler

IT WAS ALL A DREEEEEEM.

It's so cliché it's funny

And clichés have no place in Metal Gear!

 

[Zomba13]

I liked Skullface's voice actor ¯_(&#12484_/¯

Such a lust for the dramatic!

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!?

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

You're going to laugh.

He trusted him because ZERO told him Ocelot was legit...

I'm not kidding

Why Kaz even took a phonecall from Zero in the first place when he assumed he was responsible for MSF's demise is beyond me.

Despite my hate for the entire Cipher/Boss' Will conflict introduced in MGS4. I find Zero to be a super intriguing character from those tapes. And I wish that all the tapes were as interesting to listen to as Zero's.

 

[Zabant]

if they were at Outer Heaven, they would have had proper medical facilities.

There's a straight up logo on the door that says outer heaven.

That is pretty explicit in telling you where he is.

 

[GreyOcelot]

I haven't heard it for myself, but I remember someone on NeoGAF saying that (I think in a YongYea interview) Troy Baker explained that Kojima asked for him to sound more like Joel from The Last of Us at some point in development.

But I haven't been able to find the quote for myself.

WTF

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Well the timeline stops in 84-85, shows the cut scenes where he gets the tape, where he's clearly still a diamond dog, and then continues as Outer Heaven.

Gun shots doesn't mean it's Operation Intrude N313. He's a mercenary, he's on battlefields with gunshots all the time. He's also somewhere where they're doing more field medicine, as seen by the removed bullets and blood everywhere.. If they were at Outer Heaven, they would have had proper medical facilities.

Besides, that sounds like way too much commotion for Operation Intrude N313 to be a successful sneaking mission.Canonically, Snake wasn't getting into too many fire fights.

I thought the mirror break was signifying the change, along with the logo swap.

Also, 10 year would give the bosses enough time to age into their proper appearances.

The intro cutscne labels the room he's in as

OUTER HEAVEN
Another day in a battlefield without end

Or something to that effect. Operation Intrude was also a very specific operation conducted in '95 so there's no way that tape could have been sent any earlier.

 

[plebegamer]

I don't even know why Kaz trusted Ocelot. He was just an old Big Boss friend from The Patriots/Cipher, the same group that blew up MSF.

Because Ocelot was a close friend of Big Boss, and left Cipher when Big Boss broke off. Kaz was also in cohoots with Cipher at one point as well, so having ties to them isn't an excuse for him to distrust Ocelot.

 

[Alienous]

WTF

I know. I've heard it a few times, but I haven't found the quote myself, so take it with a grain of salt.