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[Brerlappin]

If Quiets real life model came out and said she thought it was disgraceful and shes being objectified, id be like "fair enough, Kojima has gone too far". But instead shes posting on twitter about how she wishes she wasnt at work (on a modelling shoot) so she could be home playing MGSV. So really i dont have a problem with this.
Quiet looks hot and kicks ass, like about 10,000 other videogame women. Nothing new. Maybe Kojimas reasoning behind it was retarded (and it was), but yeah, if Stefanie Joosten isnt crying inter her cornflakes over Quiet doing some sexy poses, i think ill hold back my righteous indignation for now.

 

[Xater]

Who's even suggested that? No-one's even said that "he has to change her" or anything, people are just being critical

Some people can't deal with others liking something and still being critical about it.

 

[DrArchon]

Yes, but then it's not very interesting is it? I'd rather he go back to shaming Unity asset copy/pasters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvIr6C74q_w

There you go.

 

[Auctopus]

As i haven't played the game (and i don't care about it really) after seeing this i can safely say that Kojima is the most cringe-worthy writer in video games history.

I haven't read your post history (and I don't care about it really) but after reading this post I can safely say that you are the worst Gaffer in Internet history.

 

[Spinifex]

As a feminist I don't really have too many issues with Quiet's character design, but the way she poses and the way the camera treats her is.... just on some other level. Harem Anime has more decorum.

 

[The Technomancer]

Also that was the first time I saw that rain scene. Jesus that's what people were talking about? Fucking amazing

 

[Xater]

If Quiets real life model came out and said she thought it was disgraceful and shes being objectified, id be like "fair enough, Kojima has gone too far". But instead shes posting on twitter about how she wishes she wasnt at work (on a modelling shoot) so she could be home playing MGSV. So really i dont have a problem with this.
Quiet looks hot and kicks ass, like about 10,000 other videogame women. Nothing new. Maybe Kojimas reasoning behind it was retarded (and it was), but yeah, if Stefanie Joosten isnt crying inter her cornflakes over Quiet doing some sexy poses, i think ill hold back my righteous indignation for now.

Her feelings about this are kinda irrelevant. Especially when she got paid.

 

[E_Darkness]

I don't her design so much, I think it is fine. But how she is portrayed is really unnecessary, all the poses and such. All the boob shots, sexy posing is really not needed. You can have a sexy character without being shameless about it.

Spoiler

She's basically female The End, but breathes through her skin or something. I mean the justification is dumb, but it isn't unheard of in Metal Gear

. I haven't finished MGSV, I've only just got Quiet as a selectable buddy.

 

[Kikujiro]

Kojima is a perv and has put pervy things throughout the entire MGS series. He even stated Quiets design was for cosplayers before he threw out that "serious" reason. And you know what? The reason perfectly fits within all of the other weird ass shit in the MG series.

The real problem here is that fans put Kojima in a pedestal. For years he has done this and no one gave a shit. Now we are supposed to? Nothing has changed. He trolls fans, he trolls and media and did what he wanted to do for his entire career and now people are mad about it? Nah.

A series full of techno babble, skimpy outfits, innuendos, giant robots, ninjas, porn mags, dates, using a cardboard box for cover and more weird shit. Shit we loved about the series. People just took Kojima too damned seriously.

Get upset if you want but its years too late to do so. You just got trolled again by Kojima.

You're forgetting that Kojima takes himself more seriously than anyone else, what he wrote about Quiet on twitter was dead serious. He actually thinks he made a sensible pro-women empowerment character.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

He isn't missing it at all. You must have paid very little attention.

If you breather through your skin you don't have to be completely naked. The End did the same and he isn't running around with his dick hanging around.

I paid attention, at no point was that actually mentioned in the video. He made it seem like she does it just because she can. I'm not defending it or saying it makes it any better, though.

 

[Boke1879]

Who's even suggested that? No-one's even said that "he has to change her" or anything, people are just being critical

I could have sworn I saw someone on the First page mention a patch

 

[Steroyd]

Goddamnit, Jim, god fucking damnit Jim, you were the chosen one, but you dissapointed me immensely with this video, very often we agree on nearly everything but it looks like the time has come to bring out the pitchforks, I can't sit back and just watch you spout lies to the public and this needs to be addressed.

D-Dog is the best D-Buddy.

*shakes head*

 

[Xater]

I paid attention, at no point was that actually mentioned in the video. He made it seem like she does it just because she can. I'm not defending it or saying it makes it any better, though.

You should watch it again. He makes it very clear.

 

[MMarston]

Huh, Jim pretty much nailed my exact issues (and good things) regarding the character.

Now I can just link this video all the time like the lazy discusser I am.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

I just posted this in the spoiler thread but i feel like it belongs here too.

I'm surprised not even Jim Sterling seems to understand this. It doesn't matter if you like the character, story and his/her design or not, in the end it's all about sales. How good this project sells, nothing else matters for those companies.

I think the reason why Quiet looks the way she looks is because of sales. Just look at it:

MGS3's The Boss - One of the best females in gaming, doesn't show much skin until the end > sales around 3.6M

MGS4's B&B Unit - more sexualized with skin thin outfits etc. > sales around 6M.

MGSV's Quiet - lots of boob shots, most skin a female MGS character has ever shown etc. > sales in the first few days already over 3M.


I really think Kojima and company thought about sales when they designed Quiet, maybe they blaimed MGS3's low sales (compared to other MGS games) on The Boss not showing enough skin.


I mean Kojima even says so himself.

 

[MUnited83]

I could have sworn I saw someone on the First page mention a patch

They mentioned a patch that would you allow to have the option of having her fully clothed without the need of unlocking the outfits, not replacing the main one.

 

[Boke1879]

You're forgetting that Kojima takes himself more seriously than anyone else, what he wrote about Quiet on twitter was dead serious. He actually thinks he made a sensible pro-women empowerment character.

He kinda already did that with The Boss and Meryl

 

[Dremark]

My second comment I this thread already agreed with this - but that didn't stop him doing it for at least one character.

You can argue Eva was sexualized if you want but she was certainly a character and was more than a 2 dimensional sexualized object no matter how you want to cut it. Raiden was designed to pander and was sexualized too but he was still a well done character despite that, as was Eva.

If you want to bash Quiet's character, feel free, as far as I've seen you're right and she's a nothing character. The statement doesn't apply to all his female characters though.

 

[Xater]

He kinda already did that with The Boss and Meryl

Nah, even Meryl gets undermined in MGS1. She is a damsel in distress and used as a trophy two times in the game (If you are quick you can see her in her in her underwear as a reward). She is more of a character than Quiet but still has issues.

 

[Ban Puncher]

I love the people that get upset at people criticizing Quiet the most. Last thread on this was amazing.

And what gets me harder than 1CC'ing DoDonPachi is people who get miffed about folks getting rustled about those getting upset about Quiet.

Checkmate, atheists.

 

[Kintaro]

You're forgetting that Kojima takes himself more seriously than anyone else, what he wrote about Quiet on twitter was dead serious. He actually thinks he made a sensible pro-women empowerment character.

He also said the character was made rrotic and sexy on purpose for cosplay on that same twitter.

I wonder which Kojima was serious about. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[WrenchNinja]

He kinda already did that with The Boss and Meryl

That was when he had a cowriter

 

[Brerlappin]

Her feelings about this are kinda irrelevant. Especially when she got paid.

Why are her feelings irrelevant when its her likeness everyones got their balls on fire over?

If she had a problem with it, i would, but until then, its her likeness and if shes cool with Kojima parading her round in a Bikini, more power to her and im not gonna lose any sleep over it. Just people getting offended for the sake of it as far as i can see. Bayonetta was a million times more gratuitous. Real talk.

 

[Famassu]

Totally agree. All of a sudden its too much.

I don't think it has ever been THIS bad. Sure, you could sneak a peek at Eva in MGS3, Fortune isn't too far away from Quiet's design and we could spy Meryl in MGS1, but as far as I remember none of those characters ever stuck their titties & ass at the camera quite as aggressively as Quiet does, nor were any of them a part of the same kind of striptease-ish dance in the rain that Quiet does.

And don't act like those have never been criticized.

 

[Tizoc]

I just posted this in the spoiler thread but i feel like it belongs here too.

I'm surprised not even Jim Sterling seems to understand this. It doesn't matter if you like the character, story and his/her design or not, in the end it's all about sales. How good this project sells, nothing else matters for those companies.

I think the reason why Quiet looks the way she looks is because of sales. Just look at it:

MGS3's The Boss - One of the best females in gaming, doesn't show much skin until the end > sales around 3.6M

MGS4's B&B Unit - more sexualized with skin thin outfits etc. > sales around 6M.

MGSV's Quiet - lots of boob shots, most skin a female MGS character has ever shown etc. > sales in the first few days already over 3M.


I really think Kojima and company thought about sales when they designed Quiet, maybe they blaimed MGS3's low sales (compared to other MGS games) on The Boss not showing enough skin.


I mean Kojima even says so himself.

Not sure if serious....
If MGS5 sold well or even better than its predecessors, I highly doubt it's for Quiet; people bought MGS5 because its MGS.

 

[TheVoidDragon]

You should watch it again. He makes it very clear.

At what point? He says she breathes through her skin, but does not say why she does that. He even says "for reasons we can only describe as Metal Gear logic". Obviously though, that being the reason doesn't mean she has to be completely uncovered, and it doesn't make it any better.

 

[Endo Punk]

Great video. I feel Koj got some explaining to do. I could play DOA5 all day with the bikini costumes and not care but Quite's portrayal is really disgusting. All that talk about gamers being ashamed regarding her design, it's Kojima who should be ashamed, ruined her story because he want titilation, every scene with her is a chore to watch.

 

[Boke1879]

Nah, even Meryl gets undermined in MGS1. She is a damsel in distress and used as a trophy two times in the game (If you are quick you can see her in her in her underwear as a reward). She is more of a character than Quiet but still has issues.

She's a rookie in MGS1 so it makes sense. She's a whole different ball game in MGS4. Funny how no one mentions her character in MGS4

 

[Auctopus]

I just posted this in the spoiler thread but i feel like it belongs here too.

I'm surprised not even Jim Sterling seems to understand this. It doesn't matter if you like the character, story and his/her design or not, in the end it's all about sales. How good this project sells, nothing else matters for those companies.

I think the reason why Quiet looks the way she looks is because of sales. Just look at it:

MGS3's The Boss - One of the best females in gaming, doesn't show much skin until the end > sales around 3.6M

MGS4's B&B Unit - more sexualized with skin thin outfits etc. > sales around 6M.

MGSV's Quiet - lots of boob shots, most skin a female MGS character has ever shown etc. > sales in the first few days already over 3M.


I really think Kojima and company thought about sales when they designed Quiet, maybe they blaimed MGS3's low sales (compared to other MGS games) on The Boss not showing enough skin.


I mean Kojima even says so himself.

Sorry, no. Metal Gear sales are not directly related to the female characters level of nudity.

 

[Xater]

Why are her feelings irrelevant when its her likeness everyones got their balls on fire over?

If she had a problem with it, i would, but until then, its her likeness and if shes cool with Kojima parading her round in a Bikini, more power to her and im not gonna lose any sleep over it. Just people getting offended for the sake of it as far as i can see. Bayonetta was a million times more gratuitous. Real talk.

Because whatever the model thinks is irrelevant to what we see on the screen and what it obviously is.

Everything isn't alright just because the people involved don't mind. That's not how critical analysis works.

At what point? He says she breathes through her skin, but does not say why she does that. He even says "for reasons we can only describe as Metal Gear logic". Obviously though, that being the reason doesn't mean she has to be completely uncovered, and it doesn't make it any better.

He doesn't mention that her lungs are burned so what? He says the Metal Gear logic thing to make clear that her being naked is stupid. I really don't see your problem.

 

[Anung]

Funny how no one mentions her character in MGS4

We're trying to forget.

 

[rmanthorp]

Quiet is SUCH a cool character (be it powers, role as a sniper etc.) that is presented and treated like total shit. The fucking shower scene in which other MB member WOLF whistle and CHEER ... Fucking COME ON. I'm not going to take that 'HEY IT'S A CRAZY GAME ABOUT ROBOTS' shit - this is very nearly the ONLY prominent representation of half the population in this game? Fuck off if you think you can just push that under the mat or WORSE defend the way she was handled at all....

On the other hand I'm fed up of people getting angry or shitty about Quiet like it's somehow HER fault? Apart from the fact that she's not real, It clearly wasn't her choice to dress and act the way she does and the fact that people are rallying behind not recruiting her or using her as a buddy because of the way she looks... smdh

KOOOJIIMMA!

MGSV is a very good game.

 

[gutterboy44]

Her character design was awful before the game launched, and now seeing all of the camera treatment and the blatant erotic posing in cut-scenes, it went from cringe to down right pathetic. Moreover, if she

Spoiler

breathes through her skin

wouldn't her writhing around in the rain be the equivalent to drowning?

 

[Shaanyboi]

You're forgetting that Kojima takes himself more seriously than anyone else, what he wrote about Quiet on twitter was dead serious. He actually thinks he made a sensible pro-women empowerment character.

he was also ecstatic about the Quiet action figure having squeezable breasts. His perspective on female empowerment is about as valuable as a half-eaten sandwich in a garbage can.

 

[Naminator]

Her feelings about this are kinda irrelevant. Especially when she got paid.

Who's opinions are relevant then?

 

[Boke1879]

Great video. I feel Koj got some explaining to do. I could play DOA5 all day with the bikini costumes and not care but Quite's portrayal is really disgusting. All that talk about gamers being ashamed regarding her design, it's Kojima who should be ashamed, ruined her story because he want titilation, every scene with her is a chore to watch.

She has the best arc in the game. Her story isn't ruined one way or another tbh

 

[Banana Aeon]

Even though I like sexualization, and all that bullshit, Quiet's design bothers me because it is truly awful. I love her XOF outifit though.

My biggest problem this "controversy" is that Kojima could have just said that Quiet was designed to be sexy, and it would have been fine. Saying there was some deeper and significant reason why she was dressed up, and there not being one just makes her look bad.

 

[Htown]

She's a rookie in MGS1 so it makes sense.

What does that have to do with her being in her underwear in a cutscene?

 

[Doctor Ironic]

You know, everyone likes boobs and Kojima specializes men too and blah blah blah, but I think some form of line is being crossed when the camera zooms in on Quiet's tits while she's being tortured.

I just posted this in the spoiler thread but i feel like it belongs here too.

I'm surprised not even Jim Sterling seems to understand this. It doesn't matter if you like the character, story and his/her design or not, in the end it's all about sales. How good this project sells, nothing else matters for those companies.

I think the reason why Quiet looks the way she looks is because of sales.

How does this excuse anything? You have a lot of faith in capitalism.

 

[Brerlappin]

Because whatever the model thinks is irrelevant to what we see on the screen and what it obviously is.

Everything isn't alright just because the people involved don't mind. That's not how critical analysis works.

But let me guess, if the model DID object to how her likeness was treated in game, then it would cease to be irrelevant?

 

[Boke1879]

We're trying to forget.

Why so? Her character was quite good in MGS4. Very strong tbh. But no one seems to mention her in MGS4 as being a strong character

 

[E_Darkness]

Her character design was awful before the game launched, and now seeing all of the camera treatment and the blatant erotic posing in cut-scenes, it went from cringe to down right pathetic. Moreover, if she

Spoiler

breathes through her skin

wouldn't her writhing around in the rain be the equivalent to drowning?

I think it is mentioned that she cannot

Spoiler

be submerged in water

. Rain is like having a shower I guess.

 

[Shaanyboi]

She has the best arc in the game. Her story isn't ruined one way or another tbh

It is when the camera relentlessly caresses her and positions itself to get the best angle on her chest/ass. Hell, she gets a bag over her fucking head, but her chest remains in plain view to be gocked at. The rain scene could've been leagues more powerful if it didn't play like some fucking pseudo strip-tease. So yes, her story is absolutely does get ruined along the way. Framing, composition, and animation/physical performance absolutely matter when it comes to visual storytelling, and with Quiet, the visual storytelling is a fucking mess.

 

[Famassu]

Why are her feelings irrelevant when its her likeness everyones got their balls on fire over?

If she had a problem with it, i would, but until then, its her likeness and if shes cool with Kojima parading her round in a Bikini, more power to her and im not gonna lose any sleep over it. Just people getting offended for the sake of it as far as i can see. Bayonetta was a million times more gratuitous. Real talk.

Criticizing something doesn't mean people are offended. What kind of stupidity is that? And just because an actress doesn't cry about having too few clothes on in a role doesn't mean that it's not in any way a sign of the all-too-common, problematic & objectifying portrayal of women in games/movies/everything and that it'd somehow be above criticism.

 

[gelf]

MGS3's The Boss - One of the best females in gaming, doesn't show much skin until the end > sales around 3.6M

This has to be a parody post as someone with a Metal gear avatar should know the games better, but in case it isn't I'm just going to counter this one line with:

 

[Xater]

But let me guess, if the model DID object to how her likeness was treated in game, then it would cease to be irrelevant?

I don't care either way what she thinks. It never crossed my mind to even look that up. It's irrelevant to what the end result is. It's a character who is almost naked for ridiculous reasons, sexualized in design and portrayal to arouse a male players.

 

[Tovarisc]

Her character design was awful before the game launched, and now seeing all of the camera treatment and the blatant erotic posing in cut-scenes, it went from cringe to down right pathetic. Moreover, if she

Spoiler

breathes through her skin

wouldn't her writhing around in the rain be the equivalent to drowning?

It's okey,

Spoiler

she also drinks through her skin. It just can't be salt water.

 

[gutterboy44]

I think it is mentioned that she cannot

Spoiler

be submerged in water

. Rain is like having a shower I guess.

It would be like having a shower in your lungs though. Rain would be more like water boarding for her.

It's okey,

Spoiler

she also drinks through her skin. It just can't be salt water.

Oh ok, so it is even dumber than I imagined and not only a poor excuse for wank material but a poorly conceived and executed concept. Oof. Still can't wait to pick the game up on sale down the road. Maybe by then her proper military outfit can be unlocked from the start.

 

[RpgN]

All I got from the Jimquisition video was, that objectification is ok as long as it's overt, he's "angry" about is being dressed up, not the actual objectification, is this really the kind of message that should be sent out?.

What I got out of it is that, objectification doesn't fit with games that try to be serious or games that try to be realistic. MGS games are very serious with the stories even though they have optional jokes for the players to discover. It's in MGS4 where Kojima lost it when it comes to that.

 

[Strangelove77]

Who's opinions are relevant then?

Nerds on the Internet.