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[Dick Justice]

I miss the soundtrack from GZ. People complained about the overuse of the inception horn, but at least it had some personality. TPP is too minimalist for it's own good.

 

[Broken Joystick]

Oh fuck GZ made by Kojima's phantom confirmed

Ground Zeroes was the real MGSV
The Phantom Pain is the impostor.

Remember, "FROM FOX, TWO PHANTOMS WERE BORN"

 

[KarmaCow]

Someone mentioned on Reddit how none of the missions in The Phantom Pain do shit like listening to a tape to mentally backtrack the location of a prisoner.

Ground Zeroes was really good.

I don't think it's fair to paint TPP missions as uninspired either. That was one thing in GZ and TPP has some interesting missions like the Honey Bee mission where you can find the prisoner at the relay base if you're fast enough or the Viscount mission where listening to the interrogations reveals why he requested that only he gets out.

 

[Roufianos]

I miss the soundtrack from GZ. People complained about the overuse of the inception horn, but at least it had some personality. TPP is too minimalist for it's own good.

I think I know the sound you're on about. I'm not sure why it was cut from TPP as it was in the original GDC gameplay reveal.

 

[Kama_1082]

I'd like to wonder at which point of the game was where konami said enough is enough, we are releasing this September 1st. You need to stop and wrap this shit up? I'd like to think it was right when the repeat missions started up.

Thoughts, opinions?

 

[Griss]

Someone mentioned on Reddit how none of the missions in The Phantom Pain do shit like listening to a tape to mentally backtrack the location of a prisoner.

Ground Zeroes was really good.

I've said it many times - It's a better game than TPP all ends up.

- It respects your time. No constant helicopter trips, 1km runs to your destination.
- It's well structured. The main mission has an great opening cutscene, a solid story beat in the middle with the tapes and seeing Paz, then a great closing cutscene. Then the less important story stuff is the side missions.
- There is mission diversity, from prisoner rescues to extractions to helicopter gunning to taking out gun emplacements to collecting shit to playing as Raiden. Some missions actually make you listen to the tapes to help figure shit out, as you mentioned.
- While you need prior knowledge to get into it, the story is linear and makes sense. It has a beginning and an end. Nothing is cut.
- There's no faffing about with menu management for Mother Base, no microtransactions. No fucking grinding for fuel.

If TPP had been 15 levels like GZ telling defined chapters of the overall story, each with important story beats, with really varied level design and settings (and base design as good as GZ), it would have been phenomenal. Hoping that that's what MGS6 ends up being.

 

[GoodCoffeeJoey]

I fired my Russian interpreter but I'm still able to interrogate the Soviet soldiers just fine. Also does anyone in the game actually speak Pashto?

 

[NeoGiff]

Guys, I don't think Ocelot is gay for the simple reason that all the "clues" are much too subtle. Come on, this is Kojima we're talking about.

 

[KarmaCow]

I fired my Russian interpreter but I'm still able to interrogate the Soviet soldiers just fine. Also does anyone in the game actually speak Pashto?

I noticed too, I don't know if that's a bug or if they were never really needed after you first get them.

 

[Jolkien]

So it might have been answered before, why does Big Medic yell Haidara with the hand of jehuty ? Doesn't recall anything like that in Zone of the Enders (where the Jehuty name come from)

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I actually really enjoy this game but thought this was funny.

There's a bitterness here I can at least appreciate.

 

[Carbonox]

I've said it many times - It's a better game than TPP all ends up.

- It respects your time. No constant helicopter trips, 1km runs to your destination.
- It's well structured. The main mission has an great opening cutscene, a solid story beat in the middle with the tapes and seeing Paz, then a great closing cutscene. Then the less important story stuff is the side missions.
- There is mission diversity, from prisoner rescues to extractions to helicopter gunning to taking out gun emplacements to collecting shit to playing as Raiden. Some missions actually make you listen to the tapes to help figure shit out, as you mentioned.
- While you need prior knowledge to get into it, the story is linear and makes sense. It has a beginning and an end. Nothing is cut.
- There's no faffing about with menu management for Mother Base, no microtransactions. No fucking grinding for fuel.

If TPP had been 15 levels like GZ telling defined chapters of the overall story, each with important story beats, with really varied level design and settings (and base design as good as GZ), it would have been phenomenal. Hoping that that's what MGS6 ends up being.

This would have been god tier. I need this.

So it might have been answered before, why does Big Medic yell Haidara with the hand of jehuty ? Doesn't recall anything like that in Zone of the Enders (where the Jehuty name come from)

Big Medic :lol :lol :lol

 

[Ran rp]

TPP's core gameplay is polished as hell but Ground Zeroes is a better Metal Gear game.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

TPP's core gameplay is polished as hell but Ground Zeroes is a better Metal Gear game.

Ground Zeroes doesn't even have Metal Gear.

Also, why is Ground Zeroes more Metal Gear than TPP ?

 

[Kama_1082]

I've said it many times - It's a better game than TPP all ends up.

-It respects your time. No constant helicopter trips, 1km runs to your destination.
-It's well structured. The main mission has an great opening cutscene, a solid story beat in the middle with the tapes and seeing Paz, then a great closing cutscene. Then the less important story stuff is the side missions.
-There is mission diversity, from prisoner rescues to extractions to helicopter gunning to taking out gun emplacements to collecting shit to playing as Raiden. Some missions actually make you listen to the tapes to help figure shit out, as you mentioned.
-While you need prior knowledge to get into it, the story is linear and makes sense. It has a beginning and an end. Nothing is cut.
-There's no faffing about with menu management for Mother Base, no microtransactions.

If TPP had been 15 levels like GZ telling defined chapters of the overall story, each with important story beats, with really varied level design and settings (and base design as good as GZ), it would have been phenomenal. Hoping that that's what MGS6 ends up being.

It was that deep because it was to show that GZ was worth the $$ despite the hour long story mission. With 157 side ops and 50 story missions, there was no need to go that deep in TPP because the filler was already there. That's just my opinion of course.

 

[Griss]

I'd like to wonder at which point of the game was where konami said enough is enough, we are releasing this September 1st. You need to stop and wrap this shit up? I'd like to think it was right when the repeat missions started up.

Thoughts, opinions?

It must have been at some point during Chapter 2, if it happened at all. I personally put the blame at Kojima's feet. Chapter 1 was a poorly paced mess, PW was a mess, so Chapter 2 being so strangely structured shouldn't surprise me.

And it also doesn't surprise me that Konami saw
a) where Kojima was going with all this (quite possibly a five chapter, 500 hour game with enough story for 30 hour game and enough common sense storytelling for a 10 minute game), and
b) how well received the gameplay was in mock-reviews (all publishers do this)
and said, fuck that, let's just sell this shit as is, it'll get great reviews and sell like hotcakes anyway. Wrap it up and get out of the building.

EDIT: And can you blame them?

 

[ExVicis]

I actually really enjoy this game but thought this was funny.

It's the mental gymnastics part that gets me.

 

[KarmaCow]

The open world in TPP is pretty much a waste, especially since missions are defined to locked in areas and you will fail if you leave.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

I am livid. I come in here after the twist thinking I saw everything there is to see in the game and I see mission 51. Now I think there is an actual mission 51 but nooooooo it's a deleted mission?!?! So you are telling me the final boss, the final mission, the actual ending to the story WAS FUCKING CUT!!!! Are you fucking shitting me!!

I am pissed.

I'm going with the theory that there were original 5 chapters like in Peace Walker.

You don't create a concept for a game with only 2 chapters. Especially if your last game had 5

Fuck Konami

 

[mgs2master2]

I actually really enjoy this game but thought this was funny.

God damn

 

[SkylineRKR]

I'm going with the theory that there were original 5 chapters like in Peace Walker.

You don't create a concept for a game with only 2 chapters. Especially if your last game had 5

Why was it called Race anyway?

Oh, because it was a quick race to the finish.

 

[Dick Justice]

Are there any in-game tracks that match up to this or this from GZ?

 

[ExVicis]

It must have been at some point during Chapter 2, if it happened at all. I personally put the blame at Kojima's feet. Chapter 1 was a poorly paced mess, PW was a mess, so Chapter 2 being so strangely structured shouldn't surprise me.

And it also doesn't surprise me that Konami saw
a) where Kojima was going with all this (quite possibly a five chapter, 500 hour game with enough story for 30 hour game and enough common sense storytelling for a 10 minute game), and
b) how well received the gameplay was in mock-reviews (all publishers do this)
and said, fuck that, let's just sell this shit as is, it'll get great reviews and sell like hotcakes anyway. Wrap it up and get out of the building.

I wanna know now what Kojima's actual timeline for finishing this game now. How long was he actually thinking to have to finish the game to be exact to his standards? Because we were getting pretty long already with how long it was taking.

 

[RandomSeed]

Guys, I don't think Ocelot is gay for the simple reason that all the "clues" are much too subtle. Come on, this is Kojima we're talking about.

Subtle. What are you talking about?

https://youtu.be/CyOaRbfogXo

 

[Dick Justice]

I'm going with the theory that there were original 5 chapters like in Peace Walker.

You don't create a concept for a game with only 2 chapters. Especially if your last game had 5

Fuck Konami

Kojima had at least 5 years to make this, he should've planned out the development more efficiently.

 

[Golnei]

So it might have been answered before, why does Big Medic yell Haidara with the hand of jehuty ? Doesn't recall anything like that in Zone of the Enders (where the Jehuty name come from)

Apparently, it's just an exclamation in the Japanese version of ZOE2 which wasn't in the English dub.

Guys, I don't think Ocelot is gay for the simple reason that all the "clues" are much too subtle. Come on, this is Kojima we're talking about.

The entire codec conversation in 3 where Eva mocks Snake for how oblivious he is to Ocelot's affection would seem to acknowledge it in text, along with the kiss in MGS4. V not having a scene equivalent to the Kaz date in the only game where Ocelot is part of the primary support cast is a crime.

 

[texni]

I'd like to wonder at which point of the game was where konami said enough is enough, we are releasing this September 1st. You need to stop and wrap this shit up? I'd like to think it was right when the repeat missions started up.

Thoughts, opinions?

I really don't know, because the amount of cutscenes we got is really small, we saw a lot of them years ago. Don't know how the schedule for Motion capture was handled but it's really weird. The main missions are almost all like side ops missions, I mean they don't seems really hard to implement (rescue x, or kill target...) and the fact that kojima use all the cutscenes in the game to make a trailer is really weird (Elegia, Nuclear...).

Why show mission 51? (if it's actually a real canceled mission, not something to missguide us) either to say "look, we wanted to go further, but we couldn't, blame evil Konami" or "It's not over yet"
He knew what would happen at the end of the game, frustration. No way he don't know how sparse story wise thegame is, it's his job for more than 20 years.
Maybe the content is already done, and konami is waiting to announce 4 Dlcs, maybe we will never know what happened...

 

[Ran rp]

Ground Zeroes doesn't even have Metal Gear.

Also, why is Ground Zeroes more Metal Gear than TPP ?

It's more grounded and has a better cutscene to gameplay ratio, and I don't have to waste my time in unskippable helicopter rides or running between checkpoints or going to mother base for no reason other than triggering a cutscene. GZ cuts out a lot of that fat keeps it focused on the missions and story.

 

[WalshyB]

Didn't some of the developers give up their holiday to release the game? I'm guessing they probably wanted to add more to the game(actually finish it) but Konami said they had to stick to the deadline. So they just rushed it out in an incomplete state

 

[Broritos]

Kojima had at least 5 years to make this, he should've planned out the development more efficiently.

The other three chapters will be DLC.

I believe. Put me on the damn train. My lust is too stronk.

 

[Jolkien]

Apparently, it's just an exclamation in the Japanese version of ZOE2 which wasn't in the English dub.

Ah I see. Thanks for the clarification it was driving me nuts

 

[SkylineRKR]

They showed the whole concept of Mission 51. We know how it progresses and how it finishes. I doubt this will ever come.

Its weird, they could release it as DLC though it would cause a backlash because it obviously belonged in the main game.

They could also add it

Spoiler

for free

. In order to, you know, actually give us a product with a conclusion. Or was Chapter 2 a bonus to begin with?

 

[Ghostmaster]

Kojima had at least 5 years to make this, he should've planned out the development more efficiently.

None of the guys writing complicated and ambitious plots in video games know how to plan their time.

Levine screwed about Infinite so much, that 2k had to hire Rod Ferguson and his whip to get the game out the door.

Valve and Half Life....even the episodes were delayed.

Schafer and Broken Age....delayed.

That's why managers are so important.

 

[Messypandas]

There should have been a sahelanthropus battle at motherbase for the final mission. Would have been epic as shit seeing that thing turn on knowing they brought it there.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Are there any in-game tracks that match up to this or this from GZ?

I haven't listened to the whole OST yet but this track is epic as fuck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66CLefw2qOI

 

[Raytow]

The 4chan post is utter shit, the game is incomplete that's probably on Konami, the story is shit that's all on Kojima, but the gameplay is the best there is for a stealth title fuck even for a sandbox title it shits on the 99% of the competition.

 

[Misterinenja]

It's more grounded and has a better cutscene to gameplay ratio, and I don't have to waste my time in unskippable helicopter rides or running between checkpoints or going to mother base for no reason other than triggering a cutscene. GZ cuts out a lot of that fat keeps it focused on the missions and story.

It's a fucking $40 demo where you rescue two prisoners.

Kojima had at least 5 years to make this, he should've planned out the development more efficiently.

Are we completely ignoring rumors about working conditions at Konami?

 

[Golnei]

There should have been a sahelanthropus battle at motherbase for the final mission. Would have been epic as shit seeing that thing turn on knowing they brought it there.

I wonder how feasible that would be with mods. At the very least, both the Sahelanthropus enemy and Mother Base map are fully functional, so swapping it in over another entity would be more feasible than trying to reconstitute Episode 51.

Though there might be issues with its AI...

 

[Ran rp]

One of those subsistence missions where you're dropped in with nothing but your arm was probably my favorite in the game.

It's a fucking $40 demo where you rescue two prisoners.

The price is irrelevant. And there was more than one mission. And the type of mission it was doesn't really matter. The map was well designed and I got plenty of hours out of it.

 

[Revven]

Kojima had at least 5 years to make this, he should've planned out the development more efficiently.

You're forgetting that at least 2-3 years of that was developing the FOX Engine. And, in addition, a good portion of the money/budget definitely went towards making that engine as well.

They showed off/teased the engine for a whole year before even revealing MGSV and subsequently revealing Ground Zeroes. It's not mismanagement so much as it is the people making the game were also making the engine first for said game. Which means not much work was done on the game until the engine was deemed complete. And who knows how much of a factor making GZ a separate product had on the development of TPP -- management had to change priority to make that product happen which means TPP work likely paused until GZ was released.

 

[KarmaCow]

The 4chan post is utter shit, the game is incomplete that's probably on Konami, the story is shit that's all on Kojima, but the gameplay is the best there is for a stealth title fuck even for a sandbox title it shits on the 99% of the competition.

If all the rumours of Kojima about requesting stuff and just throwing it out later, along with the $80 million budget, it's hard to blame Konami for how it's incomplete and getting this out when they already gave him 5 years.

 

[Dombrowski]

Welcome to the club.

What if they'd never shown this ep 51? Would people be this hung up over not fighting Eli? Were people this pissed off when Liquid Ocelot ran away with RAY in MGS2? Why can't this just be a throwback?

Games change during development for all kinds of reasons, content that don't make it in the final release is something common. I guess showing that episode was Kojima's biggest mistake, it seems, lol.

 

[Kevin Shields]

One of those subsistence missions where you're dropped in with nothing but your arm was probably my favorite in the game.

Chapter 2 gameplay is superb. Total stealth and substinence is the shit.

 

[Two Words]

You're forgetting that at least 2-3 years of that was developing the FOX Engine. And, in addition, a good portion of the money/budget definitely went towards making that engine as well.

They showed off/teased the engine for a whole year before even revealing MGSV and subsequently revealing Ground Zeroes. It's not mismanagement so much as it is the people making the game were also making the engine first for said game.

I'd rather the resources on MGO had been put on the single player.

 

[Two Words]

What if they'd never shown this ep 51? Would people be this hung up over not fighting Eli? Were people this pissed off when Liquid Ocelot ran away with RAY in MGS2? Why can't this just be a throwback?

Games change during development for all kinds of reasons, content that don't make it in the final release is something common. I guess showing that episode was Kojima's biggest mistake, it seems, lol.

MGS2 ends with Snake saying he's gonna track down the Patriots and Liquid Ocelot. MGSV has Eli and a bunch of kids steal the Metal Gear and they just let it go without ep 51.

 

[OrochiJR]

So, anyone else a little dissapointed that all of the crazy theories regarding Gray Fox, MG1 Remake as final chapter with Hayters reappearance or the head transplant doctor being connected to MGS5 turned out false?

At least the people who claimed that you play another clone or someone impersonating Big Boss (The "what about him?" line in the Not Your Kind of People trailer made some suspicious I believe) got their theory validated.

#Team A to the end!

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Kojima had at least 5 years to make this, he should've planned out the development more efficiently.

Easier said than done

Especially when it's your first open world game with it's own engine, and you want the world to have some type of meaningful content.

He prioritized the open world ecosystem, soldiers -> resources -> weapons -> base

The alternative is an empty world with a short story.

Either way we won with the game, but lost with the story.
Well we got half a game even though the game itself was over 50+ hours

 

[texni]

You're forgetting that at least 2-3 years of that was developing the FOX Engine. And, in addition, a good portion of the money/budget definitely went towards making that engine as well.

They showed off/teased the engine for a whole year before even revealing MGSV and subsequently revealing Ground Zeroes. It's not mismanagement so much as it is the people making the game were also making the engine first for said game.

I think you have no clue what you're talking about. Creating a AAA game is all about multitasking a bunch of departements (story, art, design...) it's not because your engine is not ready yet that you can't mo'cap, write, create assets...

 

[SkylineRKR]

What if they'd never shown this ep 51? Would people be this hung up over not fighting Eli? Were people this pissed off when Liquid Ocelot ran away with RAY in MGS2? Why can't this just be a throwback?

Games change during development for all kinds of reasons, content that don't make it in the final release is something common. I guess showing that episode was Kojima's biggest mistake, it seems, lol.

It is. I probably would've been fine with Liquid escaping as an MGS2 throwback as not knowing is not caring. But 51 sounded really good once it had been revealed. As this game is the missing link, and there is nothing else with Liquid and Sahelanthropus in this saga. It didn't make sense to keep such stuff unanswered in a game thats supposed to bridge a gap.

 

[Anth0ny]

I actually really enjoy this game but thought this was funny.

cracking up at work