Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Are there any spoilers? Can't play the game till the 28th
Jimquisition (September 14th, 2015) - A Quiet Conversation
- Thread starter L~A
- Start date
No offense, but you're not really doing a great job of making your point clear.
Yes.
BibiMaghoo
Member
This is funny, because in this case the artist was not catering to his artistic vision. He was catering to Kojimas orders to redesign the characters to make them "more erotic". "The initial target is to make [you] want to do cosplay or its figurine to sell well.".
So maybe not pretend in this case it was down to free artistic expression of the artist. He was told to break the tits out, much to the detriment of the game.
Well that would just be stupid.
I have made it pretty clear. Look at all the negative responses to something I said is fine and ive no problem with.
I think if it wasn't for the narrative lens and how it treats Quiet's character, I think your way of thinking would have been shared by a lot of people. For me, it's less the outfit and how the game treats the outfit. It's not that she's naked, it's that every time it's time to learn something about her, or time for her to do something important, or reveal a piece of the plot's mystery, it's tit shot, ass shot, crotch shot, repeat, until the cutscene is over. The game spends too much time making her a pin up than it does making her a character.
I'm almost 100% positive that a WOMEN designed Quiet.
MilkyJoe
Member
BibiMaghoo
Member
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Cause the game would have gotten an AO and the game industry and retails aren't ready for those type of games.
That is false, and Kojima did have the designer go back to make her more sexy.
Sometimes I wonder. We're steadily getting to the point where a game can be M and have nudity, as long as it doesn't have too many dirty words.
Give me a sec to use my Google-fu, I swear I read that the person who designed Quiet was a women. I'll be back.
And?
You may be thinking of Bayonetta, who's designer is a woman.
meltingparappa
Member
You may be thinking of Bayonetta.
Worth stating for the record that you can probably could have seen bandage man's anus peeking out of his gown if only you had the INTscope during the intro.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
The thing is that there is a correct stance given Jim's issue was with Kojima's statement about Quiet not being wankbait which she objectively is. In the part of the story where a character explains why she's naked and why the critics would feel ashamed of their words and deeds that character also references an enemy from earlier in the series with the same abilities who was fully clothed.
Also when you're not playing Devil's advocate when you're arguing for what you like.
Bayonetta's a character who was designed by men and drawn by a woman. So the argument there is still a pretty shitty one.
But if you did, i'd come off as funny, rather than sexy.
She's a shit buddy as well. Also for me personally but her face just takes me out of it as well. The design is already bad but Stephanie Josten's face is pretty but in the game it's so ugly and doesn't fit with the other characters (along with Ocelot since his model is also somewhat designed after Troy Baker now for some reason).
I actually don't know the reason for her character yet. When do I find out? I'm at mission 31.
I actually don't know the reason for her character yet. When do I find out? I'm at mission 31.
even if Quiet was designed by a woman, it doesn't make the character design any better
also, you sure you're not thinking about the defense of that Zero Suit Samus alt in Smash Bros?
NullPointer
Member
My Dr Manhattan ran around Saints Row the Third all free willy'd and wielding a giant purple dildo for a weapon, so I'm ready at least ;p
I guess the moral of the story here is that titillation is fine (I think its fine anyway), just don't sell it so loudly as something more refined than it is.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
I don't think the camera work would have allowed the game to get an M. We do have nudity in games now but it's usually in quick snippets and/or not the sole focus of the game. Twitch would have banned MGSV from being broadcasted.
What does she think about the secret organization that controls the world known as the Patriots?
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Let's say it's true; what does it change?
Hey now.
I may not like her design or her treatment as related to the narrative, but she's still the best Buddy in the game BY FAR.
She's so good she almost breaks the game.
It's quite fascinating that people have that deep of an insight in to Kojima's mind.
Unless it was her idea, rushing to Kojima with a sketch saying "PUT HER IN THE GAME", I fail to see how this matters. It's still the art lead(s) and Kojima himself directing and making notes on what she was to draw in the first place. They didn't find a drawing on the ground, shrugged, and said "Well, I guess this is Quiet. What else?"
NullPointer
Member
Garrett Hawke
Member
Yas, he went IN tbh
Keep in mind, this is the man who put the B&B in MGS4 for the sole purpose of getting to mo-cap nude super models.
Even if you like Kojima, which I do, his pervy streak is known and legendary. It just didn't really get in the way of the story until 4, and is dramatically escalated in 5.
partyphone
Banned
there's titties in a lot of M rated games. okay give her a thong so the PC police don't ban the game.
but my point is that if it's just a video game and the context of the character doesn't matter then why not just go for it? why show any restraint?
Doctor Ironic
Member
I'm only at the point where she's at MB and hasn't started going on missions with me yet, but I find it hard to believe anyone could be better than DD. Dude is basically wallhax.
Dude, you have no idea. Just remember, to make the most out of using Quiet, you have to tell her in the iDroid where to scout or attack.
She can clear entire locations BY HERSELF. She's amazingly good. I was using her to farm guys for my FOB with a 100% success rate.
The sole purpose? I'm curious, is there a link to this?
I am exaggerating, to be sure, but there's some behind the scenes video of Kojima mo-capping the super models in the nude and it being kind of super creepy. More so when you pair it with how meaningless all of them are in MGS4.
Quiet can wallhack a base you're not even close to and then kill/tranq everyone, too.
Having your cake and eating it too is a common trend in these topics. People want to be tittilated and oggle at sexualized fictional women who are subservient and mute without being told that it's deeply problematic - hence also the dishonest conversations we end up having where people just won't admit that this particular thing is designed to please a presumed straight male player because their world will collapse if they realize that the thing they really enjoy is problematic.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Kojima gave the game to JJ Abrams. lol
Only George Miller and Guillermo Del Toro can have a tearful intervention with him.
"Kojima, you must leave this all behind you. Brother, you have so much talent we want to save you."
Only George Miller and Guillermo Del Toro can have a tearful intervention with him.
"Kojima, you must leave this all behind you. Brother, you have so much talent we want to save you."
Well you get those that go "yeah, it turns me on. And?"
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Well Kojima certainly thinks he has a deep insight into his critics minds and progressiveness gender roles so I suppose we should join a club together?
Rather than accusing me of doing something I didn't do, I simply contrasted a statement against damning evidence, I didn't claim to have a deep insight into Kojima's mind. Why don't you try to argue how a character who has her tits/ass out for no good reason whilst she poses for the camera to focus in on them for 90% on the time she's on screen isn't wankbait.
BibiMaghoo
Member
It doesn't matter if they were male or female, Kojima decided the direction and he said to make it that sleazy shite it is. There was no freedom of artistic creation to be had here, the artist was told what to do, making your point irrelevant here.
meltingparappa
Member
Not even Psycho Mantis could read so many minds at once.
To the point that sometimes I think the Boss is just some lucky coincidence and not an actual carefully crafted cool character
Palette Swap
Member
I think Quiet's case is particularly grating because of the context:
- her character arc is poorly executed and ends up very practically punishing the player.
- she's virtually the only woman in the game - yeah, female soldiers, the nurse with a 30 second life expectancy and that other cameo aren't very well developed characters. That effectively means 99% of female screen time is occupied by a half naked mute girl. That's miles from Eva and the Boss.
- Kojima really fucked up when he didn't own it and made up some bullshit about words and deeds.
- the fact the game's story is so unpolished / unfinished has generated some bad will.
In a context where you could ignore these points, I guess we'd be laughing it away and saying "well, silly Kojima, that old lech".
That argument (which doesn't even apply here) is really the "I have a gay/black friend" of these discussions. Irrelevant.
I agree with Jim here. I just think it's a shame that they decided to dress up a character as interesting as Quiet that way, and more importantly decided to have the camera have sex with her in the same way Michael Bay likes to do in the Transformer movies. It just completely takes me out of the character.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
He's done good female characters. Peace Walker is a testament to that. Pervy side unfortunately gets the best of him.
I disagree, for one, this game is hardly narrative driven, it's quite the opposite now. Second, in what little cinematic moments we do get, she's seen doing more badass shit than anything else. She can look however she wants, because she backs it up in the gameplay where it matters, and even in cutscenes.
The other MGS women like who? Meryl is lame as shit, Sniper Wolf is just as bad, and would be even worse if it was developed on current gen, Rose is one of the most annoying characters in video game history, Naomi has her tits hanging out in a lab coat ffs and Eva is a ok, despite the moments where you are encouraged to peek at her stripping, though she's basically a bond girl. MGS4 in general is just full of garbage female characters, not even worth naming them all.
The only really good female character in this entire series is The Boss, maybe Olga is alright. At least in Quiet's case, she makes a kickass partner, whereas the rest are just stupid.
The real joke here is that someobe as smart as Jim Sterling is, believed Kojima in the first place. The body of work is there in his past works and you believe he was being serious? You all just didnt want to see what was plain as day.
At this point, its your own fault if you swallowed Kojimas lines.
MilkyJoe
Member
She's not literally a plant
Ahhh
OK she breathes through her skin, can she swim without drowning? ;o)
While the female soldiers aren't developed characters, the fact they're playable in place of Snake is an important thing. The fact there's diversity among those female soldiers is also important.
This does mean you can occupy 100% of your screen with a badass woman of your choice.
Tomeru
Member
In my game shejust sits there. If I wanna look at her ass I go toher cage. Atleast try to pretend thats not ALL she does.
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