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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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The main takeaway from this is that a lot of people have made up their own version of what MGSV was supposed to be prior to launch. In retrospect the footage in the trailers are completely out of context, but create a certain story, and ironically enough every new trailer only enforces that story. A story that never existed.

Now that the game didn't deliver the story people themselves created in their own minds and came to expect, they consider the story garbage and Kojima a hack.

I too, of course, am guilty of this. I had high expectations because I too expected the story to go down a certain path based on the trailers I've seen. So the disappointment in MGSV's story is ultimately largely my own fault. Once you let go your own assumptions of what MGSV was supposed to be, you will notice that the disappointment will also go.

Although you're not exactly wrong, I think the main thing about the trailers that people find deceiving is that it promises the game will have a story which it barely does. I don't really care about the story not being about Boss becoming a demon. I'm generally used to Kojima trolling in his trailers. It's like when they showed Old Snake blowing his brains out in a MGS4 trailer and people thought Kojima was lying to them when it didn't happen in the game. No shit, why would you show something like that in a trailer if there wasn't more to it? The real problem here is that the story is non-existent and the structure is fucking terrible.
 
Uh uh. "Sins of the Father", which I'm pretty sure refers to Big Boss, and the lyrics are about a downfall, making decisions that paint you as evil and having to stick with it. You're right that it's more applicable to Skull Face than Big Boss, but I doubt that was the intention. Listening to the lyrics I imagine it was intended for Diamond Dogs as an organisation; "their blackened hearts", "cleansing flames is the only way to repent". Men being hell-bound, and Big Boss leading them there.

I think there is an argument for the song to be fit for both DD and XOF. I think because of the trailers most of the expectations is set for the song to be about DD/VS in general.
 
I don't know, I hate Huey, but that is intended. He felt like the only real character in this game. He was a dipshit who tried pushing responsiblity away from him were clumsily, but he felt real. Quiet's story was a bit weakened by the random fanservice teams. I would've rather seen some cute scences were she and Boss try to learn to communicate or have a nice cup of tea together.

Any potential for Quiet's arc was ruined by her rubbing her breasts with rain like an idiot, IMO. She points her ass at Big Boss and takes 'naughty girl' showers as often as she does anything badass.
 
speaking of fanservice, someone made a fancomic as an "alternate" ending to the game

https://i.imgur.com/qUHXy5n.jpg

sorry if this has been posted before, but I don't have the patience to sift through 500+ pages
holy shit

Honestly aside from the gratuitous Quiet entrance, it's far better than the original ending.

It definitely fits with the theme of "everything for the mission" that the Boss embodied, and shows the perpetuation of those ideas through Big Boss's character.
 
I don't know, I hate Huey, but that is intended. He felt like the only real character in this game. He was a dipshit who tried pushing responsiblity away from him were clumsily, but he felt real. Quiet's story was a bit weakened by the random fanservice teams. I would've rather seen some cute scences were she and Boss try to learn to communicate or have a nice cup of tea together.

Oh I'm sure hating Huey is intended, I was talking about how the character arcs should have concluded though, rather than the overall arcs themselves. Quiet's fanservice stuff is really embarrassing, but the climax of her story was the one moment in the entire game I felt I cared about a character in the game. On the other hand, Huey's climax was a huge question mark. Why did Snake let him go? Why would they just put him on a lifeboat with supplies?

This is a private military organization which has no issues with torturing people, capturing and imprisoning enemies and threats, and using people as leverage and information against those who seek to hurt them. It was a weak climax, and Huey blaming Snake for killing all those people in Quarantine was really lame because he hasn't earned the right to say any of that at all.

If they wanted to end his story as a fucking worm who takes advantage of everyone and refuses to admit any fault of his own, they should have had a final mission where after convincing everyone that he's on their side, maybe after completing Battle Gear, he asks Snake to help him rescue his son from XOF, and when you complete it, he betrays you and escapes with his son and his new American partners. That would have had impact and show character agency. What we got was just an annoying ass being an annoying ass, and getting away with it because.... the characters in the game somehow... don't care? It was really weird.
 
speaking of fanservice, someone made a fancomic as an "alternate" ending to the game

https://i.imgur.com/qUHXy5n.jpg

sorry if this has been posted before, but I don't have the patience to sift through 500+ pages
holy shit

I prefer the idea of Big Boss betraying Venom, and Venom getting a less dignified death.

Also, best proof that BB is a better BB than Big Medic: BB would never have let Huey off that oil rig alive.
 
Oh I'm sure hating Huey is intended, I was talking about how the character arcs should have concluded though, rather than the overall arcs themselves. Quiet's fanservice stuff is really embarrassing, but the climax of her story was the one moment in the entire game I felt I cared about a character in the game. On the other hand, Huey's climax was a huge question mark. Why did Snake let him go? Why would they just put him on a lifeboat with supplies?

This is a private military organization which has no issues with torturing people, capturing and imprisoning enemies and threats, and using people as leverage and information against those who seek to hurt them. It was a weak climax, and Huey blaming Snake for killing all those people in Quarantine was really lame because he hasn't earned the right to say any of that at all.

If they wanted to end his story as a fucking worm who takes advantage of everyone and refuses to admit any fault of his own, they should have had a final mission where after convincing everyone that he's on their side, maybe after completing Battle Gear, he asks Snake to help him rescue his son from XOF, and when you complete it, he betrays you and escapes with his son and his new American partners. That would have had impact and show character agency. What we got was just an annoying ass being an annoying ass, and getting away with it because.... the characters in the game somehow... don't care? It was really weird.

These ideas are just making me sad, to be honest.

Why, Kojima!?
 
Any potential for Quiet's arc was ruined by her rubbing her breasts with rain like an idiot, IMO. She points her ass at Big Boss and takes 'naughty girl' showers as often as she does anything badass.
Yes, it was quite embarrassing.

Oh I'm sure hating Huey is intended, I was talking about how the character arcs should have concluded though, rather than the overall arcs themselves. Quiet's fanservice stuff is really embarrassing, but the climax of her story was the one moment in the entire game I felt I cared about a character in the game. On the other hand, Huey's climax was a huge question mark. Why did Snake let him go? Why would they just put him on a lifeboat with supplies?

This is a private military organization which has no issues with torturing people, capturing and imprisoning enemies and threats, and using people as leverage and information against those who seek to hurt them. It was a weak climax, and Huey blaming Snake for killing all those people in Quarantine was really lame because he hasn't earned the right to say any of that at all.

If they wanted to end his story as a fucking worm who takes advantage of everyone and refuses to admit any fault of his own, they should have had a final mission where after convincing everyone that he's on their side, maybe after completing Battle Gear, he asks Snake to help him rescue his son from XOF, and when you complete it, he betrays you and escapes with his son and his new American partners. That would have had impact and show character agency. What we got was just an annoying ass being an annoying ass, and getting away with it because.... the characters in the game somehow... don't care? It was really weird.
True, your idea would be a ton better than Venom just shrugging and arbitarily having an opinion. I thought that, if anything Huey could've escaped with Eli after having the kids repair Sahel.
 
After the climax of episodes 28-31 + this pretty great teaser I could not fathom chapter 2 was going to disappoint, but it totally did - by basically not existing and being nothing more than a weird and awkward amass of underdeveloped character arcs...
 
I'm not very good at coherently writing my opinions about games, but I'll list some point here and state my thoughts about them and see what happens, now that I've plugged 160 hours into this game.

First and foremost, the story, even in regards to the Metal Gear Solid universe, isn't great. The location and timing of MGSV has lots of potential, and I felt that they touched upon a lot of it, but were too afraid to fully dip their hand into the meat of it (or it was cut out of the game, either Kojima's or Konami's decision).

I'm glad we got to see Eli, Liquid's arc in the series has always been a favourite of mine, especially due to his MGS1 VA. I am sad that the Lord of the Flies mission was cut out of the game, it had a lot of potential. A teenage Liquid Snake piloting a Metal Gear as you and your entire army try and take him down across a small island. I'm holding out that it'll be DLC, but I know that's a pipe dream.

Skull Face, while dying before he had his chance to shine, was a great villain on face value. I mean, his name is literally Skull Face. His VA was great but his motivations seemed unclear. Was he just pissed because he did all the admin for Snake? Did that reach into his hatred for Zero? What was the point of keeping his XOF team secret (I think this is mentioned in a tape). His homeland and tongue were taken from him, so he, wanted to do the same to everyone else? Including English, which is what he spoke? I didn't really understand WHY he was the way he was, but I know that he was imposing for it.

Quiet, I liked. She was great. The whole "feelings for Snake" thing started to make me cringe near the end, and, her appearance, while I myself am not offended by it, can see how others see it as tacky. The points that Jim Sterling made in his video are pretty much my thoughts here. I didn't like her ending mainly because we can't use her again, but also, again, felt she had a lot more potential.

Microsoft Ocelot is just Wikipedia, pretty ambivalent towards him. Felt like he was a different character here than in any other game, but that's Ocelot. Kaz is an angry prick though that's fair enough, and Huey's a dick.

The Man on Fire seemed to be injected into the story for continuity sake. It's like Kojima said "Hmm, I need a way for players of previous games to feel like their commitment is appreciated, I know, I'll stick a dead Volgin in the game and make him into a man on fire, controlled by Baby Psycho Mantis, because, reasons". Mantis could have been better utilized too, the room for hallucinations and flashbacks in the game were vast.

Imagine running through Afghanistan and coming across a squad of enemies that immediately start firing upon you, and you start firing back. But you realist over the noise of heavy gunfire, that they're not hurting you, nor you hurting them, and they're simply just part of your imagination. Or you could have had the voices of people like The Boss while you're fighting, "Remember the basics of CQC" as you take down four people with your bare hands. Yes it's a bit fan-wanky, but after MGS4, I felt Kojima reigned it in to try and tell a serious story in a universe that has a a family tree of pant-shitters.

I don't really mind the twist. It makes sense, it's not detrimental to the story, it's just boring and pointless in the grand scheme of things, and presents more questions than answers.

Gameplay and control-wise, the game is top-notch. Goes without saying it's the best controlling MGS game, as well as best looking. A shame that we'll never see Fox Engine EVA though.

The missions and landscapes that they take place on were varied enough for me not to be bothered that a lot of them were essentially "kill him/extract him" yada yada yada. I felt, despite being much shorter, Ground Zeroes did better in that department. In GZ, you had to listen to conversations, spot the right man and extract information, then find whatever item/kill whoever. It's side-ops were a massive step-up from those of TPP, I really hate how you spent a lot of time and money upgrading your helicopter when you barely use it. The extracting Hideo mission in GZ was one of my favourites, where were those in TPP? I get that it's an open-world, but that doesn't restrict the developers from creating a few scripted missions. I feel like the open-world nature of The Phantom Pain expand its horizons in the gameplay department, but restricted it in its narrative and coherent one.


There's a lot of things I'm sad about, but tons of things I'm really happy with. This game will take a while for me to have a definitive opinion on it.
 
I wonder if Huey leaving explains in-universe why the next Metal Gear mechs looks so crappy compared to Sahe. VS and BB getting some knockoff scientists to plug in a diesel engine to whatever scraps of Sahe they can find. Then Otacon brings back some style with REX.
 
Oh I'm sure hating Huey is intended, I was talking about how the character arcs should have concluded though, rather than the overall arcs themselves. Quiet's fanservice stuff is really embarrassing, but the climax of her story was the one moment in the entire game I felt I cared about a character in the game. On the other hand, Huey's climax was a huge question mark. Why did Snake let him go? Why would they just put him on a lifeboat with supplies?

This is a private military organization which has no issues with torturing people, capturing and imprisoning enemies and threats, and using people as leverage and information against those who seek to hurt them. It was a weak climax, and Huey blaming Snake for killing all those people in Quarantine was really lame because he hasn't earned the right to say any of that at all.

If they wanted to end his story as a fucking worm who takes advantage of everyone and refuses to admit any fault of his own, they should have had a final mission where after convincing everyone that he's on their side, maybe after completing Battle Gear, he asks Snake to help him rescue his son from XOF, and when you complete it, he betrays you and escapes with his son and his new American partners. That would have had impact and show character agency. What we got was just an annoying ass being an annoying ass, and getting away with it because.... the characters in the game somehow... don't care? It was really weird.

Yeah, Huey getting away with it was completely nonsensical. What happened to the Venom Snake that said: "She knows our location. Either way one of these days we're gonna have to kill her. When the time comes, I'll pull the trigger". I'm starting to think that line was only in the game to make for a good trailer moment.

Huey knows their location, worked on their R&D team, knows weaknesses with their Battle Gear & Walker Gears and is a human piece of garbage but not even an option to pull the trigger on him? The only reason he gets away like that is because he's Otacon's dad.
 
Tbh, this is not Kojima's first game. He should've known better what he can and can't do with the budget.
True, but considering Rising's first attempt, maybe there was something falling down in planning stages. RisingKP looked functionally complete, but what went wrong? Too ambitious? Maybe Kojima thought his name and IP would keep finds flowing in both cases.
 
After Huey basically spat in my face during the Diamond Dogs funeral scene, and after discovering that he was responsible for the outbreak in the first place, and that he also helped Eli and the kids escape, I was pretty pumped for the "trial" scene. When they brought out the AI Pod and revealed that he killed Strangelove and he was still denying it, I was like "OH YEAH YOU'RE FUCKED!!". Then... Snake just.... lets him go. Wut. :(
 
After Huey basically spat in my face during the Diamond Dogs funeral scene, and after discovering that he was responsible for the outbreak in the first place, and that he also helped Eli and the kids escape, I was pretty pumped for the "trial" scene. When they brought out the AI Pod and revealed that he killed Strangelove and he was still denying it, I was like "OH YEAH YOU'RE FUCKED!!". Then... Snake just.... lets him go. Wut. :(

i still cannot make sense of that, just why
 
After Huey basically spat in my face during the Diamond Dogs funeral scene, and after discovering that he was responsible for the outbreak in the first place, and that he also helped Eli and the kids escape, I was pretty pumped for the "trial" scene. When they brought out the AI Pod and revealed that he killed Strangelove and he was still denying it, I was like "OH YEAH YOU'RE FUCKED!!". Then... Snake just.... lets him go. Wut. :(

I don't know why they didn't let the player make the judgement call with the pistol, just like you do with Quiet and Skull Face.

Make the gun empty for the sake of continuity. I just wanted to see him squirm and know how badly he fucked up. Have him admit to what he'd done with the barrel of a gun on his forehead. Something other than "Bye bye, stay safe".
 
I don't know why they didn't let the player make the judgement call with the pistol, just like you do with Quiet and Skull Face.

Make the gun empty for the sake of continuity. I just wanted to see him squirm and know how badly he fucked up. Have him admit to what he'd done with the barrel of a gun on his forehead. Something other than "Bye bye, stay safe".

What happens if you shoot Quiet or Skull Face? I didn't initially shoot Skull Face, and it triggered a scene where Venom went crazy on his ass.

Also, I think it speaks to Venom's mindset. He says that the things he's done he'll have to stop running from someday. I think this was intended to foreshadow Boss's mass murder of his own soldiers continuing to haunt him and culminate in Chapter 3 as him becoming "bad" alongside Miller's lust for revenge.
 
In a vacuum, the twist that Venom Snake is not actually Big Boss is great.

But to reiterate for the nth time, this revelation comes at the most inopportune moment, at the very end of the game, which up until you had been led to believe that you've been someone else, which itself isn't inherently negative, but given how it all unfolds, that you never actually do assume the identity of Big Boss, that you're a fraud, leaves the player having learned practically nothing new about Big Boss, and nothing about Venom Snake because he's neither Big Boss nor the former medic.

Venom Snake is the spinning totem at the end of Inception.

Everything that led up to this game, including the game itself, foreshadowed a Big Boss becoming a demon. But let's face it, since you don't play as Big Boss, any demonic or diabolical act in this game can't be attributed to his doing. This game doesn't advance the story of Big Boss, even if he did agree to have someone assume his identity in order to be protected miles away.
 
What happens if you shoot Quiet or Skull Face? I didn't initially shoot Skull Face, and it triggered a scene where Venom went crazy on his ass.

Quiet gets killed (I think, I didn't do it but I saw it online).

With Skull Face ... I think Big Boss fires the gun, I don't know if it hits. Basically it shows Big Boss as he was when he was leaving the hospital (as Ahab), then it flashes back. It keeps doing that if you shoot. Eventually the limb shooting scene happens, with Miller and Big Boss.
 
I was thinking...do we ever get an explanation as to why Medic sounds exactly like BB? I mean, I would fly with the idea of voice chord modification, but medic sounds just like BB in GZ, doesn't he?
 
What happens if you shoot Quiet or Skull Face? I didn't initially shoot Skull Face, and it triggered a scene where Venom went crazy on his ass.

Also, I think it speaks to Venom's mindset. He says that the things he's done he'll have to stop running from someday. I think this was intended to foreshadow Boss's mass murder of his own soldiers to haunt him and culminate in Chapter 3 as him becoming "bad" alongside Miller's lust for revenge.

When you shoot Skullface, Venom switches into his hospital outfit and you just shoot his chest. Then you and Miller shoot off his limbs.
 
i actually hope kojima makes story dlc for this one, i want more story damnit

Koji Pro is no more.
Finishing the story is probably why Kojima had a falling out with Konami. Konami saying to Kojima your using up to much Pachinko money. Kojima probably wanted his name off the game because Konami wanted to release an unfinished product. (Thankfully the gameplay was polished)

True, but considering Rising's first attempt, maybe there was something falling down in planning stages. RisingKP looked functionally complete, but what went wrong? Too ambitious? Maybe Kojima thought his name and IP would keep finds flowing in both cases.

Kojima was working on Fox Engine/MGSV pre production while his team was working on Rising. He wanted them to make a game without him especially since he was focused on MGS. They couldn't get the game mechanics to work with what they envisioned so they went to Platinum. Unfortunately they had spent a lot of time making nothing.
 
Koji Pro is no more.
Finishing the story is probably why Kojima had a falling out with Konami. Konami saying to Kojima your using up to much Pachinko money. Kojima probably wanted his name off the game because Konami wanted to release an unfinished product. (Thankfully the gameplay was polished)

yeah, I know.... I'll dream of it anyway though

It's not going to happen :C
 
Let's not blaim everything on him, we don't know what really happened behind the curtain.

We know that he, as director and producer of the game, ran over time and budget and after delays had to be told "just ship what you have.". What more is there to know beyond that without dipping into stupid "fuck Konami" conspiracies?
 
After Huey basically spat in my face during the Diamond Dogs funeral scene, and after discovering that he was responsible for the outbreak in the first place, and that he also helped Eli and the kids escape, I was pretty pumped for the "trial" scene. When they brought out the AI Pod and revealed that he killed Strangelove and he was still denying it, I was like "OH YEAH YOU'RE FUCKED!!". Then... Snake just.... lets him go. Wut. :(

I thought that was going to be like a Rob Stark moment where you divide your camp over what decision is made. But nah.
 
yeah, I know.... I'll dream of it anyway though

It's not going to happen :C

I don't know whats worse.
The fact that it isn't going to happen or Kojima will later come out and say, TPP was supposed to be 5 chapters long (like Peace Walker) and you were supposed to end the game with Solid Snake defeating you in Metal Gear 1 (or you as Solid Snake playing a small remake of MG1)
 
We know that he, as director and producer of the game, ran over time and budget and after delays had to be told "just ship what you have.". What more is there to know beyond that without dipping into stupid "fuck Konami" conspiracies?

Do you see how many scenes from the trailers are missing in the actual game? you think that is on Kojima? yeah no, this is all on Konami.

What if Konami said in the last minute, you know what? we can't do that, we gotta cut some scenes out of the game, it's too "taboo".

What if that was the reason for the fallout between Kojima and Konami? like i said we don't know the details, so stop blaiming everything on Kojima.
 
After Huey basically spat in my face during the Diamond Dogs funeral scene, and after discovering that he was responsible for the outbreak in the first place, and that he also helped Eli and the kids escape, I was pretty pumped for the "trial" scene. When they brought out the AI Pod and revealed that he killed Strangelove and he was still denying it, I was like "OH YEAH YOU'RE FUCKED!!". Then... Snake just.... lets him go. Wut. :(

Kojima adhering to canon in the worst possible way.
 
"Alright Eli, you threw stun grenades at the Boss, threatened to kill other Diamond Dog soldiers and on top of all that you organized a child soldier uprising... I'm revoking your weapon access"
 
Do you see how many scenes from the trailers are missing in the actual game? you think that is on Kojima? yeah no, this is all on Konami.

What if Konami said in the last minute, you know what? we can't do that, we gotta cut some scenes out of the game, it's too "taboo".

What if that was the reason for the fallout between Kojima and Konami? like i said we don't know the details, so stop blaiming everything on Kojima.

Or let's entertain the idea that Kojima, finally under time constraints for taking SO DAMN LONG, couldn't use some of those scenes because they required complementary scenes which would have taken even longer to create.
 
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