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[FlashbladeGAF]

We know that he, as director and producer of the game, ran over time and budget and after delays had to be told "just ship what you have.". What more is there to know beyond that without dipping into stupid "fuck Konami" conspiracies?

Well you also don't know the kind of relationship he had with Konami before the new CEO came in.

Kojima was very influential in Konami (Vice President of Konami DigiEnt) and probably had free reign because he would usually make it back. The changing of the guard ended up biting Kojima in the ass because they probably saw how much he intended to use to make his magnum opus.

Plus it didn't help that the CEO knew nothing about video games until he got the job.
http://www.p4rgaming.com/konami-ceo-apologizes-i-only-learned-about-video-games-after-becoming-ceo/

 

[Twookie]

So does this game have awesome wacky weapons like peace Walker? Miniguns, Patriot, slingshot, etc.

apart from a waterpistol, i guess not

 

[Box of Bunnies]

yeah no, this is all on Konami.

okay, just keep jerking off to your auteur fantasies, hot gluing your custom printed "a Hideo Kojima game" covers instead of accepting the obviously laid out fact that he simply failed as a project manager

 

[Dick Justice]

Let's not blaim everything on him, we don't know what really happened behind the curtain.

You're quick to blame Konami. Even though we don't know what really happened behind the curtain.

 

[duckroll]

Do you see how many scenes from the trailers are missing in the actual game? you think that is on Kojima? yeah no, this is all on Konami.

What if Konami said in the last minute, you know what? we can't do that, we gotta cut some scenes out of the game, it's too "taboo".

What if that was the reason for the fallout between Kojima and Konami? like i said we don't know the details, so stop blaiming everything on Kojima.

You don't need to protect Kojima like he's some precious princess being threatened. You don't work at Kojima Productions, you don't work at Konami, you don't know anything either. So stop telling people to stop "blaming Kojima" when you yourself are so happy to jump to the "this is all on Konami" accusation. It makes you look like a tool of a fanboy. If you want to debate, be rational. If not, go away.

Well you also don't know the kind of relationship he had with Konami before the new CEO came in.

Kojima was very influential in Konami (Vice President of Konami DigiEnt) and probably had free reign because he would usually make it back. The changing of the guard ended up biting Kojima in the ass because they probably saw how much he intended to use to make his magnum opus.

Plus it didn't help that the CEO knew nothing about video games until he got the job.
http://www.p4rgaming.com/konami-ceo-apologizes-i-only-learned-about-video-games-after-becoming-ceo/

If you're going to start posting parody sites as fact, I think you need to reconsider your sense of reality.

 

[Alienous]

Do you see how many scenes from the trailers are missing in the actual game? you think that is on Kojima? yeah no, this is all on Konami.

What if Konami said in the last minute, you know what? we can't do that, we gotta cut some scenes out of the game, it's too "taboo".

What if that was the reason for the fallout between Kojima and Konami? like i said we don't know the details, so stop blaiming everything on Kojima.

Hmm at the bolded.

If Kojima thought that we would be "ashamed of our words and deeds" over Quiet breathing through her skin I don't quite trust him on his claims of "taboo" scenes, and I don't see where these presumably missing scenes would fit into the game.

I'm inclined to think he was hyping the child soldiers. If there was an full 'ethnic cleansing' sub-plot I could see that being "taboo" but alas it isn't in the game, but is merely given a offhand mention like many other potentially volatile elements. "Child soldiers, we have those", "Ethnic cleansing, wouldn't that be bad?".

And Kojima made no mention of edits. He's the director. He's the producer. He's, at least partially, to blame for any content changes, ahead of the Phantom Villain of Konami who we have no reason to believe edited the content of MGSV, 'A Hideo Kojima Game' throughout.

 

[Anung]

Let's not blaim everything on him, we don't know what really happened behind the curtain.

Blame clearly rests on both Konami and Kojima. I love to shit on Konami as much as the next guy but the game has kojima management (and other things) issues written all over it as well as Konami interference/get this out now issues.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

You don't need to protect Kojima like he's some precious princess being threatened. You don't work at Kojima Productions, you don't work at Konami, you don't know anything either. So stop telling people to stop "blaming Kojima" when you yourself are so happy to jump to the "this is all on Konami" accusation. It makes you look like a tool of a fanboy. If you want to debate, be rational. If not, go away.



If you're going to start posting parody sites as fact, I think you need to reconsider your sense of reality.

You're quick to blame Konami. Even though we don't know what really happened behind the curtain.

Did you guys see the word "everything" ? nobody said Kojima is innocent, it was for BOTH the developer and publisher the first open world game so again you can't blame everything on Kojima or Konami because we don't know the details.

 

[duckroll]

FWIW, I don't think Kojima failed as a project manager at all. In the end he shipped both GZ and TPP, the Fox Engine was completed and functional. The games run great on all platforms. It has great reviews. It's a ton of fun to play. And it's selling pretty well. For a major effort from Japan challenging open world action games made in the west, MGSV is a commendable effort.

Failed as a storyteller though? Yeah, for sure.

 

[Salaadin]

okay, just keep jerking off to your auteur fantasies, hot gluing your custom printed "a Hideo Kojima game" covers instead of accepting the obviously laid out fact that he simply failed as a project manager

This:

You don't need to protect Kojima like he's some precious princess being threatened. You don't work at Kojima Productions, you don't work at Konami, you don't know anything either. So stop telling people to stop "blaming Kojima" when you yourself are so happy to jump to the "this is all on Konami" accusation. It makes you look like a tool of a fanboy. If you want to debate, be rational. If not, go away.



If you're going to start posting parody sites as fact, I think you need to reconsider your sense of reality.

Also applies to those blaming Kojima.

Nobody knows the story.
The failings of the director could be because of higher ups meddling and internal fighting.
The higher ups meddling could be because of the project manager failing.

Im not sure we'll ever know.

 

[Toa TAK]

FWIW, I don't think Kojima failed as a project manager at all. In the end he shipped both GZ and TPP, the Fox Engine was completed and functional. The games run great on all platforms. It has great reviews. It's a ton of fun to play. And it's selling pretty well. For a major effort from Japan challenging open world action games made in the west, MGSV is a commendable effort.

Failed as a storyteller though? Yeah, for sure.

Oh yeah.

The game is incredibly polished and addicting to me, but the story is the only real issue to me (besides FOB nonsense).

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

If you're going to start posting parody sites as fact, I think you need to reconsider your sense of reality.

But am I really me though...
Is it even my own sense of reality?

Still, it's not like the same CEO suddenly decided to cut Kojima's budget.
A new CEO was appointed and whatever plans Kojima had for the last half of TPP got axed.


Kojima and all of us both lost.

 

[MattyG]

If you're going to start posting parody sites as fact, I think you need to reconsider your sense of reality.

People thinking p4rgaming is a legitimate site and using it to back their arguments is my favorite thing.

 

[Arkeband]

Here are my thoughts on the ending:

I beat the game last night (55% and have the "true ending", guess I'm done...?) and I liked the twist, I liked the way Kojima worked in my avatar (that kind of looked like me), and I can make head-canon sense of the shortcomings due to the narrative being cut short.

I think the most important part for people who claim this had no bearing on Big Boss is that during the final cassette Venom listens to, Big Boss states that they are one. This is ultimately what gives Big Boss such an edge, this double is both subservient and has his own free will, because he's hypnotherapied into basically being Big Boss while still coming to understand he wasn't originally Big Boss - but is OK with that. It's a shame we won't get a Chapter 3 to see his struggles in Chapter 2 turn from desperation into something more sinister.

I also wanted to see David, or some resolution of the Third Child (who must be Psycho Mantis because right after the most Third Child related mission, you get the keyword "Psycho" and the Psycho Mantis emblem.)

Anyway, I appreciate what was given to us and the game is still absolutely massive while only really reaching maybe 2/3rds of its narrative potential - I see what he was going for and to me, that's enough.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

And Kojima made no mention of edits. He's the director. He's the producer. He's, at least partially, to blame for any content changes, ahead of the Phantom Villain of Konami who we have no reason to believe edited the content of MGSV, 'A Hideo Kojima Game' throughout.

Don't forget Konami had him silenced since the big fall out.
The only thing he's allowed to do is promote the game until his "contract" is up.

I wonder if he asked his name to be taken off the game because he couldn't finish it the way he wanted to.


The fact that there was only 2 chapters also points to the fact that there may have been more in store.
Hell, Mission 51 says Konami had a hand in ending MGSV TPP prematurely.

 

[akidnamededdy]

The main takeaway from this is that a lot of people have made up their own version of what MGSV was supposed to be prior to launch. In retrospect the footage in the trailers are completely out of context, but create a certain story, and ironically enough every new trailer only enforces that story. A story that never existed.

Now that the game didn't deliver the story people themselves created in their own minds and came to expect, they consider the story garbage and Kojima a hack.

I too, of course, am guilty of this. I had high expectations because I too expected the story to go down a certain path based on the trailers I've seen. So the disappointment in MGSV's story is ultimately largely my own fault. Once you let go your own assumptions of what MGSV was supposed to be, you will notice that the disappointment will also go.

Nah fuck this.

This is the third time we were explicitly told HEY THE MISSING LINK IN THE SAGA HERE IT COMES! NOW YOU'RE GONNA SEE BIG BOSS GOING OVER THE EDGE FOR REAL!

And then we get "Oh not only are you not Big Boss, you're actually a good fucking guy."

- rescues and attempts to rehabilitate child soldiers

- lets Huey leave in one piece after being lied to over and over and over AND OVER again by him including him being mostly responsible for the original attack on Mother Base and unleashing (possibly inadvertently) a mutated strain of parasites that killed a bunch of your men and had the potential to DESTROY THE WORLD and then having the fucking gall to get in your face in front of your men during a funeral

- feels super bad about Paz even though she was an enemy spy

- rescues fucking gerbils from war zones

Etc. WHAT A MONSTER

The old Kojima Switcheroo doesn't work here like it did in MGS2. There will be no coming around to this one because there's so little there to come around to in the first place.

MGS2: "Okay we lied, you're this guy, but it's for a good reason and we'll explain that to you over the remaining 80% of this game."

MGSV: "Okay we lied, this isn't the story we led you to believe it would be, and you already saw 90% of the cutscenes, and also you're actually this other guy, and actually it's over. DID YOU RIKE IT."

 

[Nairume]

After Huey basically spat in my face during the Diamond Dogs funeral scene, and after discovering that he was responsible for the outbreak in the first place, and that he also helped Eli and the kids escape, I was pretty pumped for the "trial" scene. When they brought out the AI Pod and revealed that he killed Strangelove and he was still denying it, I was like "OH YEAH YOU'RE FUCKED!!". Then... Snake just.... lets him go. Wut.

As much as I hate people bagging on prequels, I guess this is one point where Huey having an established death made it clear that they couldn't just kill him without having some weird retcon in the chamber (ie: the father Otacon and EE knew was a fake)

But that just highlights that they handled that scene/arc poorly, since it's not like they could have possibly just forgotten that when they started writing it (unless everybody in KojiPro is secretly Akira Toriyama).

 

[Wagram]

Considering the twist, i'm actually glad that David Hayter didn't voice Venom Snake. I'm even willing to let go of my grievances of him becoming more of a silent protagonist.

Think about it, the average person probably didn't pick up the fact that Sutherland voiced the medic in GZ, but if Hayter did then most people would have thought something was up. Ishmael threw me off at the start (I knew it was Sutherland), but I didn't pick up on the clever clues throughout the game.

 

[Xpike]

Maybe both Kojima and Konami are to blame for the end product.

 

[Arkeband]

Considering the twist, i'm actually glad that David Hayter didn't voice Venom Snake. I'm even willing to let go of my grievances of him becoming more of a silent protagonist.

Think about it, the average person probably didn't pick up the fact that Sutherland voiced the medic in GZ, but if Hayter did then most people would have thought something was up. Ishmael threw me off at the start (I knew it was Sutherland), but I didn't pick up on the clever clues throughout the game.

The way it was edited, I figured Ishmael was a hallucination and it was only Big Boss in terms of intuition and combat experience subliminally helping him escape, and Big Boss had left the facility much earlier (or at least before the attack).

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

MGS2: "Okay we lied, you're this guy, but it's for a good reason and we'll explain that to you over the remaining 80% of this game."

MGSV: "Okay we lied, this isn't the story we led you to believe it would be, and you already saw 90% of the cutscenes, and also you're actually this other guy, and actually it's over. DID YOU RIKE IT."

Kojima certainly didn't.
His company is no more.

We already know the game wasn't supposed to end at chapter 2.
Be mad about the twist or that he couldn't finish the game.
Don't act like he finished the game like this (with all the loose threads) on purpose

 

[Wagram]

The way it was edited, I figured Ishmael was a hallucination and it was only Big Boss in terms of intuition and combat experience subliminally helping him escape, and Big Boss had left the facility much earlier (or at least before the attack).

Yeah that's what I thought as well.

 

[Nairume]

The way it was edited, I figured Ishmael was a hallucination and it was only Big Boss in terms of intuition and combat experience subliminally helping him escape, and Big Boss had left the facility much earlier (or at least before the attack).

It does feel like they tried to implant that idea, given there's the one part where it looks like Ishmael gets killed by the XOF soldiers when they fire on the one crowd of patients, only for him to turn up fine moments later.

 

[Kurt Russell]

So does this game have awesome wacky weapons like peace Walker? Miniguns, Patriot, slingshot, etc.

It has some stuff. The Hand of Jehuty is pretty wacky and awesome, the fulton grenade launcher thing that you can use with D-Walker is also pretty wacky. Same goes for the wormhole extraction device. Other than that, you got the water pistol and not so much more (unless you count the stuff that you can make with the customization bug on PC, like silenced rocket launchers and so on)

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

It does feel like they tried to implant that idea, given there's the one part where it looks like Ishmael gets killed by the XOF soldiers when they fire on the one crowd of patients, only for him to turn up fine moments later.

It wasn't him.
They zoom in on the hospital gown (not the ass crack ) to show you its super clean.

Ishmael's is dirty after having survived the Man of Fire's first explosive appearance.
They zoom in on the real Ishmael's gown, after he grabs Venom into the room, to show you how dirty it is.

 

[Jubern]

Considering the twist, i'm actually glad that David Hayter didn't voice Venom Snake. I'm even willing to let go of my grievances of him becoming more of a silent protagonist.

Think about it, the average person probably didn't pick up the fact that Sutherland voiced the medic in GZ, but if Hayter did then most people would have thought something was up. Ishmael threw me off at the start (I knew it was Sutherland), but I didn't pick up on the clever clues throughout the game.

Considering how much David Hayter has to bend his real voice to do the Snake voice, I'm actually pretty sure he would have been pretty good at masking himself.
Better than, say, the Japanese VA, where it was painfully obvious he was BB/Ishmael and Venom/Ahab at all times. I love Otsuka but god was it obvious.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Kojima certainly didn't.
His company is no more.

We already know the game wasn't supposed to end at chapter 2.
Be mad about the twist or that he couldn't finish the game.
Don't act like he finished the game like this (with all the loose threads) on purpose

He's been making games for 30 years, as said before by someone else he should have half an idea of how to properly scope a project by now.

Really, the only thread left loose is the Eli one, and they went out of their way to clear that up in the documentary.

I won't say he's an outright hack but I will say that it's good he's finally getting away from Metal Gear for real.

 

[Kevin Shields]

It's clear they fucking rushed this game out the door.

Yea they could have made chapter 46 so much better... Play as Ishmael or play as someone else or skip half that crap. It just reeked of we ran out of time like I bullcrapping when I'm late on a paper.

 

[Nairume]

It wasn't him.

They zoom in on the hospital gown (not the ass crack ) to show you its super clean.

Ishmael's is dirty after having survived the Man of Fire's first explosive appearance.

Ah, I didn't catch that bit.

Also, I will admit, while I was figuring that Venom Snake was somebody else, that it was both the medic and that they kept the ruse up through MG1 did actually catch me off guard. I was fully expecting a revelation that you were playing as Decoy Octopus.

 

[Aurongel]

The armchair project managers are starting to creep out from the woodwork now.

 

[duckroll]

Maybe both Kojima and Konami are to blame for the end product.

I don't think it's particularly productive to argue about who is "to blame" for the entire product. It's far more interesting to debate about the individual components of the game, and what worked and what didn't. There's more than enough there to critique both Konami's business management via the FBOs, online dispatch missions, MB coins, etc, and Kojima's iffy storytelling execution in the game and poor ability to design and communicate "extended" optional game segments like Peace Walker Chapter 5 and TPP Chapter 2.

It's easy to have a total kneejerk reaction to anything and generalize it as "fuck Konami" or "fuck Kojima" etc, but that's boring outrage. TPP has tons of fantastic moments, and some of the main ops had really amazing level design. There's a ton to be proud of here for the team who made it. But it's also pretty flawed in a bunch of areas, like the really obnoxiously designed UI. Talking about these aspects in detail seem more productive for debate than trying to point fingers in some proxy war between Kojima and Konami.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

He's been making games for 30 years, as said before by someone else he should have half an idea of how to properly scope a project by now.

Really, the only thread left loose is the Eli one, and they went out of their way to clear that up in the documentary.

I won't say he's an outright hack but I will say that it's good he's finally getting away from Metal Gear for real.

He was Vice President (Konami DE) and a new CEO got appointed mid development.
Shit got shifted toward mobile throughout the entire company regardless of plans.

The best laid out plans in the world wouldn't have mattered at all if the CEO decides to go a different way.


But that being said. I had no problem with the game or it's pacing until Chapter 2 when we started getting hit with higher difficulty replay missions. When I first saw Chapter 2, I had a grin on my face. Then Chapter 2 came and the story bits that would have carried on the momentum grinder to a halt because of the replay missions. If they continued with new content we wouldn't have been as angry (obviously) with the incomplete work that we got.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

So does this game have awesome wacky weapons like peace Walker? Miniguns, Patriot, slingshot, etc.

The water pistol, the bionic arm attachments and the D-Walker's short range stun canon are the only things that are really remotely close to being silly guns in this game.

I had to build my own patriot through the weapon customization.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I don't want to fuck either of them, I just wanted this game to have satisfying ending to my probably favorite franchise of all time.

 

[Broken Joystick]

The Prologue make the cancellation of Silent Hills feel all the more worse to anyone else? Imagine a horror game set in the Cyprus hospital with the Fox Engine.

 

[WonkyPanda]

Time to start using D-Walker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOjAYsSab78

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

I don't want to fuck either of them, I just wanted this game to have satisfying ending to my probably favorite franchise of all time.

I've been waiting for MGO since they shut down the last one.
But...

I will say, I would have gladly given up MGO if it meant we could get the full MGSV game.

 

[psylah]

I was hoping for more of a reaction / interaction with the Mammal pod you recover from Huey's lab, but I guess that would be difficult considering the nature of Venom Boss. It was such a key part of Peace Walker but was only used to incriminate Huey.

 

[Jarmel]

So what does Eli do with his Metal Gear for the next few years. Remember Episode 51 isn't canon. Does he use it to play catch and wish that it was Big Boss instead?

 

[duckroll]

The Prologue make the cancellation of Silent Hills feel all the more worse to anyone else? Imagine a horror game set in the Cyprus hospital with the Fox Engine.

Prologue, Episode 20, Episode 43. Lots of horror overtones.

So what does Eli do with his Metal Gear for the next few years. Remember Episode 51 isn't canon. Does he use it to play catch and wish that it was Big Boss instead?

Episode 51 is canon. It's listed in the timeline at the end of episode 46. They specifically list that Eli establishes his "Kingdom of the Flies" on an African island in the same year.

 

[Moronwind]

You guys are making a pretty big leap knowing that there's one lost episode (which was certainly no small cut) and then assuming that the game was somehow only half-finished.

 

[giancarlo123x]

Nope.

apart from a waterpistol, i guess not

It has some stuff. The Hand of Jehuty is pretty wacky and awesome, the fulton grenade launcher thing that you can use with D-Walker is also pretty wacky. Same goes for the wormhole extraction device. Other than that, you got the water pistol and not so much more (unless you count the stuff that you can make with the customization bug on PC, like silenced rocket launchers and so on)

The water pistol, the bionic arm attachments and the D-Walker's short range stun canon are the only things that are really remotely close to being silly guns in this game.

I had to build my own patriot through the weapon customization.

Severely disappointing...

Time to start using D-Walker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOjAYsSab78

But this is amazing

 

[Alienous]

I was hoping for more of a reaction / interaction with the Mammal pod you recover from Huey's lab, but I guess that would be difficult considering the nature of Venom Boss. It was such a key part of Peace Walker but was only used to incriminate Huey.

I would have loved for the Mammal Pod to call Big Boss out. Keep it ambiguous, but some "You aren't the Jack I knew", "Jack. You've become a monster" stuff would have been awesome. Maybe Big Boss destroying it in rage.

Alas, it was not meant to be.

 

[Tribes of Trusty]

Time to start using D-Walker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOjAYsSab78

There are wormholes in MGSV ???

 

[duckroll]

I would have loved for the Mammal Pod to call Big Boss out. Keep it ambiguous, but some "You aren't the Jack I knew", "Jack. You've become a monster" stuff would have been awesome. Maybe Big Boss destroying it in rage.

Alas, it was not meant to be.

But that does happen in episode 12. It's really overt too. You step into Huey's lab, and the first thing it says is "Jack? No... it's not you."

 

[GreyOcelot]

You guys are making a pretty big leap knowing that there's one lost episode (which was certainly no small cut) and then assuming that the game was somehow only half-finished.

yeah, i mean...one could presume that a few missions were cut, "episode 51" included. chapter 3 was probably like chapter 5 of PW, which really only had the one boss battle as new content. the zadornov missions are just extraction missions within existing areas. not at all dissimilar to the children/eli side-ops.

episode 46 seems unfinished, simply due to the bizarre decision to have you replay an identical mission for no reason. basically that and episode 51 are the only things that appear "unfinished" to me

 

[RK9039]

Kojima failed.

Winner: Dark Souls.

 

[ebullientprism]

Do you see how many scenes from the trailers are missing in the actual game? you think that is on Kojima? yeah no, this is all on Konami.

What if Konami said in the last minute, you know what? we can't do that, we gotta cut some scenes out of the game, it's too "taboo".

What if that was the reason for the fallout between Kojima and Konami? like i said we don't know the details, so stop blaiming everything on Kojima.

I love fanboy rationalisations. Everything that is wrong with the game is Konami. Everything that works is Kojima.

 

[psylah]

I would have loved for the Mammal Pod to call Big Boss out. Keep it ambiguous, but some "You aren't the Jack I knew", "Jack. You've become a monster" stuff would have been awesome. Maybe Big Boss destroying it in rage.

Alas, it was not meant to be.

Yeah, Mammal could detect his heart rate and galvanic skin response from across the room, there had to be some sort of sensor that Venom Boss would trip.

But that does happen in episode 12. It's really overt too. You step into Huey's lab, and the first thing it says is "Jack? No... it's not you."

I must have missed this! I'll have to play that again

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

You guys are making a pretty big leap knowing that there's one lost episode (which was certainly no small cut) and then assuming that the game was somehow only half-finished.

Going off a Peace Walker and it's 5 Chapters.

Who starts a story with a proper Prologue and chapter title screen but doesn't end it with a true Epilogue title screen. As annoying as the opening and ending credits were, they were at least consistent up to a point. The lack of a proper Epilogue shows signs that somethings were left behind/unfinished.

But yeah, without proper confirmation, it's still a leap.

"Hey guys... lets make a game with only 2 chapters"