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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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BobTheFork
Member
Thank you. Based on some spoilers I had heard previously, I was expecting her to play into a scene that I don't think really happens but was a fake spoiler. I've done a few of those side ops so I'll just keep going
One more question - Does Zero ever appear visually or is it just audio? I assumed audio since he seems to be mostly gone by the time you wake up.
Oh, and I haven't have a single word about Mantis, and who/what he is. I thought they would say something but it's not even clear if anyone but Eli can see him. Did I just miss it?
I'll just say that overall, I really liked the story and what it did. I thought there were enough cut scenes for me and I like the tapes as had this been any other MGS game, every single word of that would have just been in a cutscene and I'm glad I didn't sit through all of that.
I like what they wanted to DO with the parasites but the idea of them still doesn't sit well with me. I'm ok with the Phantom angle but I wasn't expecting it to lead to the idea that Metal Gear 1 and 2 were each done by a different Big Boss.
What I can't quite get my head around is the idea of perspective and how BB didn't deserve his bad reputation. I've read people saying it was Huey spreading lies but at the time of Metal Gear 1, BB had a good enough reputation to be in command of Foxhound and mission Intrude N3 so what rumors would he have spread if BB was still trusted? I guess it dances around Zero not being there anymore but even then I don't see how and why he was magically allowed to come back to FoxHound and lead a mission for Solid Snake.
It also leaves us with the whole Liquid snake being told by BB that he was inferior, since Phantom BB doesn't think Eli is a clone and real BB never interacted with him. It's also not clear if Phantom BB launches Outer Heaven as a revenge against real BB or something he thought BB would do. They basically both did the same thing for MEtal Gear 1 and 2, just at different times and the objectives seemed similar enough.
Also, I don't know how I feel about Huey becoming the biggest piece of shit in MGS history. I mean, it's an interesting idea to take him in such a different direction than Hal went, but his tapes at the end were just madness. It just devolved into insanity and I think I hated the character so much at that point that I don't have a good idea of whether it was good for the story.
Just finished last night so I'm really still processing everything. I'd love the idea of there being more story of scenes buried in the game or coming later.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
He should have cloned Ocelot. You get multiple hypnotizers. Build an army of 'em.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Even so, the whole Paz hijacking Zeke thing was all on Zero. Big Boss has reason to be wary of his motives.
ShockingAlberto
Member
In fairness, the hypnotism was just to give him the confidence he's been doing this all along as Big Boss. He was trained by Big Boss for years and years, which is an investment they were unwilling to make in other soldiers.
Graphics Horse
Member
The clones came first by 4 years or more.
You know, thinking more about the gender representation in MGSV, it really is super weird.
MGS1 - Mei Ling and Naomi on support, Meryl as the field contact, Sniper Wolf as an enemy.
MGS2 - Rose on support, Emma as the field contact, Olga and Fortune as enemies.
MGS3 - Paramedic on support, Eva as the field contact, The Boss as The Boss.
MGS4 - Mei Ling, Sunny, and Naomi on support, Meryl and Eva as field contacts, The Beauty and the Beast unit as enemies (nothing to be proud of here!).
MGSPW - Paz, Cecile, and Strangelove on support, Amanda as the field contact.
It's really odd that after five games which had no difficulty having female characters in major roles both support and combat, being smart people or great fighters and leaders, that it came to this in MGSV. The only female character in the game is a docile sniper buddy who wears underwear and does not speak, but has a hard-on for the player character. I'm sure if they actually cared about developing and designing a robust cast of characters for the story, this would never have happened. Just like how a lot of other bad decisions in the storytelling would not have happened.
MGS1 - Mei Ling and Naomi on support, Meryl as the field contact, Sniper Wolf as an enemy.
MGS2 - Rose on support, Emma as the field contact, Olga and Fortune as enemies.
MGS3 - Paramedic on support, Eva as the field contact, The Boss as The Boss.
MGS4 - Mei Ling, Sunny, and Naomi on support, Meryl and Eva as field contacts, The Beauty and the Beast unit as enemies (nothing to be proud of here!).
MGSPW - Paz, Cecile, and Strangelove on support, Amanda as the field contact.
It's really odd that after five games which had no difficulty having female characters in major roles both support and combat, being smart people or great fighters and leaders, that it came to this in MGSV. The only female character in the game is a docile sniper buddy who wears underwear and does not speak, but has a hard-on for the player character. I'm sure if they actually cared about developing and designing a robust cast of characters for the story, this would never have happened. Just like how a lot of other bad decisions in the storytelling would not have happened.
heliosRAzi
Banned
Another thing, and I think Emcee or someone else pointed this out, is that Raiden starts as a metaphor for the player, but then gradually becomes his own character throughout the course of MGS2.
In MGSV, the Medic doesn't become his own character.
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
Welp, there goes the Big Boss I was familiar with. Regardless, I don't see the world hunting Big Boss in MGS:V. And that Truth tape where Big Boss is talking to Venom really makes him sound like a sociopath. He was coward enough to have someone brainwashed into thinking he's him, and then he eggs him on to continue doing it by trying to appear sympathetic and unified with him.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Zero was into all sorts of things. Cloning, AI, hardware etc...
Plus
Clones>Hypnotherapy
Solid Snake destroyed Venom
Hell Liquid was a badass at age 10
Big Boss: "I will create Outer Heaven as a place where soldiers always have a place. A nation where soldiers will fight of their own will, free from the control and lies of leaders and governments. A nation where soldiers can be free"
*Proceeds to put a gigantic bullseye on his most trusted soldier*
*Proceeds to put a gigantic bullseye on his most trusted soldier*
eh I guess that's true
also, I agree with some other stuff i've read about the ending sucking for different reasons
I thought I was playing Big Boss starting to turn into a bad guy
there's weird hints and bad decisions to this throughout the game and I thought the whole "kill your own infected soldiers" part was the clear culmination of this and game goin all vader on me, or start of
but nope, huey did it, he bad, lets make soldiers into diamonds I love you all
Empty Space
Member
Praising the mechanics is for the small gameplay details thread, which admittedly I haven't been in all that much. This thread is for talking about the story. I like the game and I don't regret buying it, but there are things about it than I'm not happy about.
I took the PW stealing Zeke thing as fine I'll make you come back even it costs you everything. Zeroes intention was still to unify The Patriots even if Big Boss wasn't happy about it. This isn't super clear at the time when it happens in PW, but it makes sense later.
Zero should have cloned himself, he could have numbered all of the clones. Heck, he could have had his own football team. Zero is definitely not a visionary like Miller.
He was? All he did was boss around other kids. When I had to extract him, I dropped by during his bed time and tranq'd him in the head before carrying him off to the chopper. When he wanted a rematch, I rocket punched him in the butt. All he ever did was whine about shit and make threats he couldn't deliver on. Not much of a badass...
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't mind the game subverting my expectations. I just think they did it badly.
There could be a twist where a PS1 model Solid Snake wakes up in a cell and Campbell tells him he has to go to Alaska for a mission, and that would be a dumb twist, but it would have roughly as much buildup and context (these are different from foreshadowing, mind you) as MGS5 did.
There could be a twist where a PS1 model Solid Snake wakes up in a cell and Campbell tells him he has to go to Alaska for a mission, and that would be a dumb twist, but it would have roughly as much buildup and context (these are different from foreshadowing, mind you) as MGS5 did.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
There's back and forths but there does seem to be a general consensus that MGSV is a superb stealth action game with some of the most satisfying and responsive game systems of the year. It's a joy to play and few have argued otherwise.
But you're in a spoiler thread for a series well known for being exceptionally narrative driven. Naturally most people here, at this point, have exhausted the moment-to-moment update on bases they've infiltrated and exciting gunship climaxes, and are instead dissecting and reflecting on the plot without infringing on the other thread composed of players yet to finish.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
That's not what the games seem to think. In MGS1 Jim Houseman refers to Solid and Liquid as an "embarrassment from the 70s" not to mention the game stresses that genes ultimately do not define the value of a person. What's more, both Liquid and Solidus fail to overtake the Patriots despite being Big Boss clones, but Ocelot's hypnotism is able to trick them...?
Sumio Mondo
Member
Love how Big Boss at the end of MGS4 likes to make himself sound like the guy in the right, when the events of MGSV, MG1 and MG2 beg to differ. That's part of the reason why MGS4 pissed me off, since it was a wank fest for Big Boss fans who could now say "see, he was the good guy, after all". What a load of horse shit. Dude was a giant dick.
This is just too much man! It hurts =(
Zero is just tsundere for Big Boss. "It's not like I want to be your friend again baka".
That never happened in MGS4. In fact it is the complete opposite. He knows he was wrong, he says he was wrong, he admits that all his efforts were a complete waste and that in the end he was still "trapped".
Not yet! It's not over yet!
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Your forgetting there were grown men at these posts before A 10 year old on his own in Africa managed to take kids and make them into an actual threat.
I'm saying for age 10 he's a bad ass.
Not a badass compared to Venom Medic Boss/us
heliosRAzi
Banned
They were only hypnotized to think that.
Zero is just trying shit. There's no guidebook on making an Illuminati, evidently.
"I'll make Big Boss our figurehead, the world can revere him like they did The Boss"
"Uh, Big Boss doesn't like that. Uh ... clones, we can do clones, right? Paramedic?"
"Hey Skull Face, I trust that you won't betray m... ah, shit, you did. Now I'm dying. Well, do some research in Africa, or something"
"We can't let Big Boss die. Uh ... hypnotherapy, we can do hypnotherapy, right? Ocelot?"
"Everyone betrayed me. I can't trust people. Hey, Strangelove, we can put AI in charge, right?"
What an incompetent dope.
"I'll make Big Boss our figurehead, the world can revere him like they did The Boss"
"Uh, Big Boss doesn't like that. Uh ... clones, we can do clones, right? Paramedic?"
"Hey Skull Face, I trust that you won't betray m... ah, shit, you did. Now I'm dying. Well, do some research in Africa, or something"
"We can't let Big Boss die. Uh ... hypnotherapy, we can do hypnotherapy, right? Ocelot?"
"Everyone betrayed me. I can't trust people. Hey, Strangelove, we can put AI in charge, right?"
What an incompetent dope.
Black Hound confirmed?!
Kenzodielocke
Banned
That's right. Don't blame yourself. Blame me. - Venom Snake
You gotta keep in mind the game that gave the most characterization to Big Boss proceeded 4. The little details to MG1+2 might as well be considered noncanon like the small stuff in Portable Ops is.
But the only reason why he became the leader of the kids is because the grown men were all wiped out by a biological weapon, leaving the child soldiers left without supervision.
In fact, if I recall, you weren't even asked to take him out because the kids were a threat. More like, they were an annoyance. Lol.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Isn't this the essence of Liquid Snake
heliosRAzi
Banned
For some reason, I'm imagining Venom and BB taking care of young Liquid like two dads
Yes. I think Eli did a great job of capturing the essence of Liquid. I loved the performance. I'm just saying, badass isn't really a title I would apply to him!
FlashbladeGAF
Member
I thought the tapes revealed more about his situation.
But yeah I do remember the parasite wiping some of the posts out making it easy for him.
I'm not syaing hes a super soldier but I could have sworn they at least implied he was special outside of his genes and role in the overall story
They were never made to overtake the Patriots
but Solid Snake and friends were able to finish what the Boss started by freeing the world of the Patriots grip on the world which in turn brought the world a little more closer to what the Boss had envisioned.
But yeah I do remember the parasite wiping some of the posts out making it easy for him.
I'm not syaing hes a super soldier but I could have sworn they at least implied he was special outside of his genes and role in the overall story
They were never made to overtake the Patriots
but Solid Snake and friends were able to finish what the Boss started by freeing the world of the Patriots grip on the world which in turn brought the world a little more closer to what the Boss had envisioned.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I thought the Boss wanted the world to be ruled by shadowy people
Graphics Horse
Member
Why don't the parasites react to Navajo lol. Why could Quiet conveniently talk in Navajo? Was she doing vocal cord parasite studies on the side while working as an assasin?
Nintendoga
Member
"It's not over yet Snake!"
That's always irked me about the prequels. Why does everyone and their mother in PW and V call Big Boss Snake when that was just a code name used once in a mission over 20 years ago? Clearly they must not respect Big Boss enough to call him by his title.
That's always irked me about the prequels. Why does everyone and their mother in PW and V call Big Boss Snake when that was just a code name used once in a mission over 20 years ago? Clearly they must not respect Big Boss enough to call him by his title.
That's what Zero thought the Boss wanted. The Boss just wanted everyone to chill out.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
She wanted a world where people respect the will of others and carry out their own. Basically what Solid Snake ended up fighting for.
Right. Whereas real Big Boss is like "fuck 'em, he's just another person, doesn't matter to me" Medic Boss is trying to teach him lessons and taking time out of his busy heroic duties to entertain dumb fistfights.
Big Boss should have made fun of him after beating him up.
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
So the Snake's finally come out of his hole? Are you ready now... MY PHANTOM!
Up until the end of PW, or near it, BB didn't like the codename.
The
Navajo
leng-wedge
is
too
compli-caited
for
the
vochul
chorrd
parasites
to
under-styand
His whole conflict is that he knows he's a clone of Big Boss. It makes plenty of sense.
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