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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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What i'm guessing is that the Volgin in this game is not alive at all and that Third Child controls him

Incorrect, according to the "Man on Fire" tapes in-game, he's still alive and was being tested at the Soviet Supernatural facility that Mantis "the kid" was being tested in.

The only reason they both escape is because a plane crash carrying "the kid"/Mantis crashed near the facility (and they didn't recover the body which means "the kid" is still alive) and since he wears the gas mask to try to protect himself (think Jace's origin story in Magic: the Gathering: Origins, I guess) from mental readings, he gets hijacked by rage. Something Volgin has in spades for Big Boss apparently.
 
There's a lot to indicate this game was unfinished, but I am still baffled by the fact that there are transport missions to cut off supplies in South America even though the game never goes there.

No one raised their hand before that went gold and went "Hey, wait, why is this still here?"
 
Well, I am guessing that that isn't Volgin, but Meramon and the cut chapter 3 was to play in the Digiworld and the Patriot AI was the D-Reaper.
I'm going to CQC you sometime
Fleeee! Run and hide!

You

should not be in this thread

I mean, the big twists in MGSV were pretty obvious from the start if you really paid attention and I haven't really even gotten into depth in this thread yet. And spoilers don't really do much to me lol
 
So Volgin's fire powers were all Mantis, right?
 
This is the guy who thought this was a good disguise

The one thing I actually want Kojima to explain from MGS3 is when Snake actually had the chance to forge that ID card.

I kinda like that ending. Though I don't like how Mantis is just able to hand-wave Eli's parasite/the English strain out of him to save him because LOL METAL GEAR SOLID 1 YA'LL. WHOOPS. WE DIDN'T THINK THIS THROUGH AMIRITE?

And it still doesn't line up exactly...

"This is the first time I've used my powers to help someone... such a nostalgic feeling."
 
Man, why on Earth is Volgin even a real thing.

It would have been more powerful is the Man on Fire was just a hallucination of Volgin that Venom suffers from the brainwashing/Mantis' influence in the beginning of the game.

Like Pyramid Head-esque enemy that follows Venom around, haunting him. A phantom haunting a phantom.
 
Man, why on Earth is Volgin even a real thing.

It would have been more powerful is the Man on Fire was just a hallucination of Volgin that Venom suffers from the brainwashing/Mantis' influence in the beginning of the game.

Like Pyramid Head-esque enemy that follows Venom around, haunting him. A phantom haunting a phantom.

you know MGS fans can't live without some wacky twists and retconssssssss
 
i would've liked Volgin to be a halucination too, makes the whole thing less dumb. But I guess that would've required we actually play as Big Boss for the game.
 
So really, Zero had the dumbest plan ever because the real Big Boss was still in the hospital when Cypher showed up.

Then, the fake big boss proceeded to be completely successful and needed absolutely no reason to stand in for the real one.

And then, in order to lay low, Big Boss had his name legally changed to Big Boss on his passport, meaning his entire cover was blown every time he showed it to someone.

why do i have a feeling that you put big boss as the name when the doctor asks you...you are suppose to put YOUR name, becaus ein the end of the game Big Boss changes his name and identity to your old one, hence big boss was now Jonathan
 
I'm just digesting the fact that Liquid had this lifelong bro with him who could move fuckin mountains with his mind if he really wanted to and decided to use his expertise to steal another stupid metal gear.

You've got the ultimate weapon drinking tea with you every morning and you can't let go of this "who's my daddy" complex. dude deserved to get rekt.
 
i would've liked Volgin to be a halucination too, makes the whole thing less dumb. But I guess that would've required we actually play as Big Boss for the game.

Not necessarily. Volgin and other hallucinations could simply be a byproduct of Venom's broken mind and Naked's memories having overwritten his own. The line between memories, dreams, and consciousness, all blurred.

Edit: I'm adding this to my rewrite.

Which I don't think Kojima acknowledged.
 
I'm just digesting the fact that Liquid had this lifelong bro with him who could move fuckin mountains with his mind if he really wanted to and decided to use his expertise to steal another stupid metal gear.

You've got the ultimate weapon drinking tea with you every morning and you can't let go of this "who's my daddy" complex. dude deserved to get rekt.
To be fair, he also used him to totally take over an elite unit of genetically enhanced super soldiers.

One thing this game does is raise the question of what happened to Mantis. He loses his hair and becomes disfigured at some point. The tapes imply that the reason he's so easily taken over by others is due to him being a kid, so once he develops his own personality, do his powers change? He still sets rooms on fire in MGS, but he seems like he's in much more control. None of these are blanks that NEED to be filled in, but they're questions to consider nonetheless.
 
Not necessarily. Volgin and other hallucinations could simply be a byproduct of Venom's broken mind and Naked's memories having overwritten his own. The line between memories, dreams, and consciousness, all blurred.

there really was not nearly enough of that in this game

Venom should've been ocelot
 
The whole hallucination angle being wasted as a misdirect for the real twist is such a shame. It would fit so well with the theme of being consumed by the need for revenge, which itself was underused on a character literally called Venom.
 
It finally occurred to me while watching the Episode 51 video why the DNA results came back as false for Eli.

Also Ocelot using self hypnosis in the series is easily one of the best dumbest things.
 
There's a lot to indicate this game was unfinished, but I am still baffled by the fact that there are transport missions to cut off supplies in South America even though the game never goes there.

No one raised their hand before that went gold and went "Hey, wait, why is this still here?"

That one is understandable. Can't risk removing unused assets since there's a chances it might trigger some bug.
 
why do i have a feeling that you put big boss as the name when the doctor asks you...you are suppose to put YOUR name, becaus ein the end of the game Big Boss changes his name and identity to your old one, hence big boss was now Jonathan

I thought I was being clever when he asked for my name and I said Jack.

Would have been better if they asked for a surname too because it's still weird for a single name to be on the passport at the end.
 
To be fair, he also used him to totally take over an elite unit of genetically enhanced super soldiers.

One thing this game does is raise the question of what happened to Mantis. He loses his hair and becomes disfigured at some point. The tapes imply that the reason he's so easily taken over by others is due to him being a kid, so once he develops his own personality, do his powers change? He still sets rooms on fire in MGS, but he seems like he's in much more control. None of these are blanks that NEED to be filled in, but they're questions to consider nonetheless.

I always took away an air of disconnection from Mantis in MGS1. Like he's playing a role he's been asked to play and helping liquid acheive whatever ends he has in mind but there is an air of "this is all kind of beneath me" to him that they kind of solidify in this game. He's seen these legends himself in a very different light than history paints them. He's helped and fought against them in the same breath and watched what happened to the progeny of BB up close and personal.

And he even shows up in 4 to cap off the fact that he's kind of above even death.

Dude is a beast.
 
I wanted to see more MGS3 chars in this. EVA and Para-medic especially. We saw SIGINT again (chronologically) in MGS1 so that's cool, but I wanted to see Clark-medic and EVA pretty badly. At least we got a really cool Ocelot design.
 
One thing this game does is raise the question of what happened to Mantis. He loses his hair and becomes disfigured at some point. The tapes imply that the reason he's so easily taken over by others is due to him being a kid, so once he develops his own personality, do his powers change? He still sets rooms on fire in MGS, but he seems like he's in much more control. None of these are blanks that NEED to be filled in, but they're questions to consider nonetheless.

Wasn't he disfigured while his village burnt down, before MGSV? Though everything else is still fairly open - his powers manifesting in completely different ways and the presence of a distinct personality essentially make him seem like a separate person by the time of 1. Surely not everything can be attributed to age or the effect of taking on the personality traits of serial killers, but there's enough ambiguity to make his transformation feel sort of plausible.

Also, somebody should ask Kojima or Shinkawa when he started wearing that piercing.
 
3GpHqFO.jpg


That shield...

Still using cut content, even in merchandise. Unforgivable.
 
Really? That's how this game ends? How anticlimactic, the twist was cool, but once that mission started again it was obvious. Seriously though? No cool final boss battle, no nothing, so many plot holes left unexplored, wtf? Really disappointed right now. This was not the way to go out Kojima, wish MGS4 was the last one story wise.
 
Not necessarily. Volgin and other hallucinations could simply be a byproduct of Venom's broken mind and Naked's memories having overwritten his own. The line between memories, dreams, and consciousness, all blurred.

Edit: I'm adding this to my rewrite.

Which I don't think Kojima acknowledged.
Yeah, I quote myself for lazyness:
So, we had discussion fragments about the hallucinations, but I wanna talk about all of them. He game wasted good oppurtunities of using hallucinations or the mere possibility of them and executed almost all of those it has terribly.

In fact there are only three hallucinations in the game.

(1) There is obviously your true face in reflections, the subtle one in the helicopter window is great, but at the hospital it's just too on the nose for the twist. All in all there wasn't much of this.

(2) Skullface after he is killed. While it looked great, I feel like it's wasted. He could've been there from there on, occasionally appearing to tell you to embrace the bad. Just imagine you're on a killing spree and suddenly you hear Skullface laughing or your holding a guy up for a while and he starts yelling: "Do it! Kill him!"

(3) Paz. Paz was generally an interesting idea and I liked the conclusion. However Miller and Ocelot appearing was just dumb cheating to throw us off. Just let her be there, explaining that she surived and have Venom not question that at all. He isn't talking much either way, so it wouldn't be that unusual. It would also nice to have glimpses of her on MB. Like looking at one of the posters or just walking around an edge with her vanished when the player goes around that one too.

(4) They messed up the Man on Fire, Mantis, Ishmael and Skull potential. The problem is that the effect on their surroundings made very clear that they existed. Ishmael should never shot anyone, but handed you the gun for apparently no reason. Nobody should've reacted to the man on fire, just to sudden bursts of fire that could also be just the hospital on flames and some chemicals or something. And the Skulls, mna the skulls. They should've been teased early, but only used from the middle of chapter 1. Just imaging mist appearing and just glowing eyes that wander through it. The Skulls surely have other dutys and would maybe not care for you at the early points of the game. Just imagin mist and hlowing eyes and boss asking what this is, but neither Miller nor Intel can see anything through the mist.

The idea of not knowing what's real and what not could've been explored very vastly and to great effect. I repeat my suggestion of MB as a mind palace.

(a) Motherbase could be a actual base and a dreamworld at the same time with Venom wandering of in unfinished rooms to dream. You could unlock and visit different rooms with past memories. Just imaging entering a room and suddenly being in a remake of an MGS3 bossfight. Like this old missions could be entered too, signififying how Venom just remembers them in a way. And in fact, you could remake stuff from old games slightly wrong. Like have The End, but his dark skin on his head is in a wrong pattern. Have more people lole Paz who may or may not be there. Have Strangelove there until you hear that she left the base. Mix that with people from that are actually here like Miller and Huey for maximum effect of not knowing what's going on and what not.

This could further explain why Venom is so silent. After al he doesn't know what is going on half of the time and he rather waits to be sure.

(b) Make more of the demon system. Somebody suggested this in the last thread. Have dead people appear like decoys when you have too many demon points. They would look like normal people, but would have no stats and would vanish once you hit them wih anything. Have on the other hand have friendly ghosts appear when you goy little to no demon points. Occasionally a shadow of Boss or Zero appearinh pointing silently to the location of a diamond or a blueprint would be cool. Or imagine ghost soldiers of your dead appearing who stay guard as you escape in a helicopter when the enemy is on alert. They wouldn't do anything. Just be there showing how much Venom values loyality.

(c) Have characters in general appear as Venoms thought process, showing that he is silent, but listening. When somebody asks Venom let different people appear behind him, giving their comments. When something technical comes up let Huey and Strangelove appear, when it's about surviving Ocelot and the boss. And make sure that absolutely nobody appears when something medical would come up.

(d) Regular ghosts of characters, dead or not, could also make the fanart ending with Venom dying in Outer Heaven and Quiet appearing? Is she a ghost that comforts Venom? Is she taking him to heaven? Or did she survive and is saving him and he lived some happy days with her in secret? For the player to decide.
 
Spec Ops: The Line is, obviously, a pretty damn linear game that isn't that much fun to play, arguably intentionally. But it has some really cool fucking stuff in it that I thought worked really well. Stuff like the reactive dialogue changing as the game goes on (From "Tango down" to "TARGET FUCKING ANNIHILATED" and that kind of thing), or illusions showing up reflected in glass and that kind of stuff. Loading screens taunting you.

(Apart from anything else the main character spoke a lot and felt like a human being, unlike deaf-mute Venom).

Anyway, regarding insanity effects, one of my favourite moments is charging into a firefight in a shopping mall, shooting a dude who is obviously moving and shit and he turns into a goddamn dummy. This happens like three times. God, I remember the feeling of playing that last hour or two, it was just so intense. You never knew what was going to happen and it all felt like you really were falling into madness.
 
cant get over the ending feel like I dont have closure, I could stomach the wedding in mgs4 but not this. Fuck the phantom big boss

EDIT: @WordsintheWater same as much as I loved the more open world (even though it was pretty fucking empty) MGS is a series that needs a little bit of a leash to get the narrative out. They tried to do to much and failed story wise.
 
cant get over the ending feel like I dont have closure, I could stomach the wedding in mgs4 but not this. Fuck the phantom big boss

EDIT: @WordsintheWater same as much as I loved the more open world (even though it was pretty fucking empty) MGS is a series that needs a little bit of a leash to get the narrative out. They tried to do to much and failed story wise.

I loved the gameplay, it was near perfect for me, felt so good to play. I would have preferred sandbox environments instead of going open world. The number of side-ops should be cut down big time. And the important side-ops should have been pushed in the main story, a few of those were way better then a few filler main missions we got. Once the game felt like it was taking off near the end of Chapter 1 it fell off the high note and then back to even worse filler. I just don't understand how it could have been messed up this much. People were mad that MGS4 had too many cinematics and the length of them were ridiculous, I agree, but there was a way to balance all this out and in this case he went too far the other direction. Development time could have been used better then what it was. Would anyone have been mad if the side-ops were cut to half and the narrative was stronger?
 
The hallucination/surreal element basically doesn't exist outside of the intro. The hospital sets a mood that is abandoned as soon as it's over. Outside of the Paz arc, which is totally option, and the TRUTH ending, there's nothing else. Everything people expected as surreal from the trailers turned out to be far more straight forward and forgettable.
 
The hallucination/surreal element basically doesn't exist outside of the intro. The hospital sets a mood that is abandoned as soon as it's over. Outside of the Paz arc, which is totally option, and the TRUTH ending, there's nothing else. Everything people expected as surreal from the trailers turned out to be far more straight forward and forgettable.

That was kind of what I was afraid of to begin with.
 
The hallucination/surreal element basically doesn't exist outside of the intro. The hospital sets a mood that is abandoned as soon as it's over. Outside of the Paz arc, which is totally option, and the TRUTH ending, there's nothing else. Everything people expected as surreal from the trailers turned out to be far more straight forward and forgettable.
The first Phantom Pain trailer and the totally different atmosphere of the hospital makes me feel like Kojima thought of that before everything else and changed the design philosophy when the rest of the game came together. In fact, considering the horror game nature of the hospital and the fact that he went on to almost make a Silent Hill game, it makes me wonder if The Phantom Pain was originally a totally different concept he later decided to make into a Metal Gear game for some reason.
 
The hallucination/surreal element basically doesn't exist outside of the intro. The hospital sets a mood that is abandoned as soon as it's over. Outside of the Paz arc, which is totally option, and the TRUTH ending, there's nothing else. Everything people expected as surreal from the trailers turned out to be far more straight forward and forgettable.

That's not entirely true. There's also episode 20 (Voices) and the side op where you extract the Man on Fire's body. The way the cutscenes are directed has a pretty heavy disconnect from the tapes "explaining" everything. There's also that line after episode 31, where Snake talks about how the Man on Fire was run over, and that he didn't imagine it. And Ocelot sounds almost like he's trying to convince Snake that he's on his side and that he's definitely not going insane, but there's an element of doubt there.

It's pretty weird because it seems like the game wanted to have it both ways to "keep the player guessing", but the execution was all over the place.
 
One thing that annoyed me (and i'm nitpicking here) is how skeptical of Psycho Mantis' powers BB was in one of the tapes, when Ocelot tells him he's an ESP.

I guess technically he didn't went through MGS3, but he must have heard of all the crazy shit the real BB fought there, including The Sorrow's shenanigans as a psychic.
 
Just finished the game, what a shame...
I played this directly after finishing that travesty that is MGS4 so my expectations (plot-wise) were set really low.
The sad thing is that while I didn't care at all for 4's fanfiction, this one actually showed some potential: I liked the language theme, Skullface had great VA and a terrific introduction in GZ (and then he does nothing for most of the game and is disposed of in the most underwhelming way possible), Quiet almost managed to work despite her ludicrous outfit, Sutherland would have been perfect to portray a damaged Big Boss as he progressively becomes more and more unhinged (mission 43 alone is proof that this could have worked really well).
Instead all we got in the end is an extremely disconnected storyline that culminates in a tacked-on Shyamalan twist that, while not particularly bad per se, adds very little to the game as it is.
 
It's basically a meal cooked with awesome ingredients cooked by a acclaimed team of cooks im a world class kitchen and that got bothed because he was cooking for two hours already and the manager told him to get it done.
 
3GpHqFO.jpg


That shield...

Still using cut content, even in merchandise. Unforgivable.

When Eli takes the Sahelanthropus it suddenly has a shield on its arm, and I was completely confused where the hell that came from.

Those pesky child soldiers and their literally godlike engineering skills. I now imagine an A-Team-esque cutscene with the kids stitching random parts together with Ductape while Emmerich is on the radio "Noooo, you put it on BACKWARDS!"


Ugh, what could have been.. That few moments where Sahelanthropus is standing atop the R&D building were so incredible, I loved flying there when I returned to Mother Base just to look at this towering behemoth. You could see the beast all the way from the Command platform, it was so freaking cool. I hate, HATE that it's gone.

Sahelanthropus gone
Quiet gone
Huey gone so no more access to Battle Gear hangar
Paz gone
"Big Boss is watching you" posters gone

And what do we get in return? NOTHING. Mother Base is such a missed oppertunity in so many regards.
 
Chariot said:
So, we had discussion fragments about the hallucinations, but I wanna talk about all of them. He game wasted good oppurtunities of using hallucinations or the mere possibility of them and executed almost all of those it has terribly.

In fact there are only three hallucinations in the game.

(1) There is obviously your true face in reflections, the subtle one in the helicopter window is great, but at the hospital it's just too on the nose for the twist. All in all there wasn't much of this.

(2) Skullface after he is killed. While it looked great, I feel like it's wasted. He could've been there from there on, occasionally appearing to tell you to embrace the bad. Just imagine you're on a killing spree and suddenly you hear Skullface laughing or your holding a guy up for a while and he starts yelling: "Do it! Kill him!"

(3) Paz. Paz was generally an interesting idea and I liked the conclusion. However Miller and Ocelot appearing was just dumb cheating to throw us off. Just let her be there, explaining that she surived and have Venom not question that at all. He isn't talking much either way, so it wouldn't be that unusual. It would also nice to have glimpses of her on MB. Like looking at one of the posters or just walking around an edge with her vanished when the player goes around that one too.

(4) They messed up the Man on Fire, Mantis, Ishmael and Skull potential. The problem is that the effect on their surroundings made very clear that they existed. Ishmael should never shot anyone, but handed you the gun for apparently no reason. Nobody should've reacted to the man on fire, just to sudden bursts of fire that could also be just the hospital on flames and some chemicals or something. And the Skulls, mna the skulls. They should've been teased early, but only used from the middle of chapter 1. Just imaging mist appearing and just glowing eyes that wander through it. The Skulls surely have other dutys and would maybe not care for you at the early points of the game. Just imagin mist and hlowing eyes and boss asking what this is, but neither Miller nor Intel can see anything through the mist.

The idea of not knowing what's real and what not could've been explored very vastly and to great effect. I repeat my suggestion of MB as a mind palace.

(a) Motherbase could be a actual base and a dreamworld at the same time with Venom wandering of in unfinished rooms to dream. You could unlock and visit different rooms with past memories. Just imaging entering a room and suddenly being in a remake of an MGS3 bossfight. Like this old missions could be entered too, signififying how Venom just remembers them in a way. And in fact, you could remake stuff from old games slightly wrong. Like have The End, but his dark skin on his head is in a wrong pattern. Have more people lole Paz who may or may not be there. Have Strangelove there until you hear that she left the base. Mix that with people from that are actually here like Miller and Huey for maximum effect of not knowing what's going on and what not.

This could further explain why Venom is so silent. After al he doesn't know what is going on half of the time and he rather waits to be sure.

(b) Make more of the demon system. Somebody suggested this in the last thread. Have dead people appear like decoys when you have too many demon points. They would look like normal people, but would have no stats and would vanish once you hit them wih anything. Have on the other hand have friendly ghosts appear when you goy little to no demon points. Occasionally a shadow of Boss or Zero appearinh pointing silently to the location of a diamond or a blueprint would be cool. Or imagine ghost soldiers of your dead appearing who stay guard as you escape in a helicopter when the enemy is on alert. They wouldn't do anything. Just be there showing how much Venom values loyality.

(c) Have characters in general appear as Venoms thought process, showing that he is silent, but listening. When somebody asks Venom let different people appear behind him, giving their comments. When something technical comes up let Huey and Strangelove appear, when it's about surviving Ocelot and the boss. And make sure that absolutely nobody appears when something medical would come up.

(d) Regular ghosts of characters, dead or not, could also make the fanart ending with Venom dying in Outer Heaven and Quiet appearing? Is she a ghost that comforts Venom? Is she taking him to heaven? Or did she survive and is saving him and he lived some happy days with her in secret? For the player to decide.

Great stuff! What a missed chance. I wonder what other video game series can something like this be done on. The rich history and lore mixed with zany supernatural and grounded philosophical themes. Such a waste only because its Kojima's last game and one that everyone was expecting to be a hardcore fan jerk off narrative wise.

I don't know anyone that can pull it off other than Kojima could. No other auteurs and shiz.
 
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