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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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Liquidsnake
Banned
I just have one feeling after playing this game,
Wow, I completely forgot about that exchange. And I guess Kojima did too, when he wrote that Huey had accepted the nuclear inspection because he blamed Big Boss for having a nuclear arsenal and was upset at him over that.
Yeah, that's what Kojima obviously intended. As I said in a previous post, both are the fairy dust of the Metal Gear universe.
The difference is that Parasites are overexplained fairy dust. Do we really need to know their mating habits?
D-Horse is great in the Extreme Metal Gear fight. With upgraded horse armor its only dangerous attack gets mostly absorbed by him and he doesn't die. Plus you can outrun virtually all the attacks and use your 14 stock of rockets instead of D-Walker's 8.
WordsintheWater
Member
I can see what you're saying, but I don't necessarily agree, this was the game to show where and how Big Boss ended up being who he was and instead we don't play as him. The hospital point was made by Kotaku, not me, I can see where the writer was coming from though. This could have explored so many themes of Big Boss, instead we got a story that basically did none of that. Such wasted potential.
If you are forced to know about hamburgers, common sense we need to know more about parasites.
So in short, the answer is
NO, we don't need to know.
Nanomachines and Parasites are the equivalent of Midichlorians.
Mr. Smiley
Member
D-walker would have been my goat buddy if it didn't turn like ass in both legs and wheelie mode.
and then it does that thing when it comes to a complete stop if there's a hint of gravity when in air
I actually felt D-Walker should've been a vehicle. I mean, maybe if you could order him to be autonomous and cover you like Johnny 5. (Wait, could you?)
SJRB
Gold Member
I use D-Horse all the freaking time. I love casually riding through the Afghani desert.
D-Dog is useless since I disabled marking, and Quiet is...
Quiet is...
*sniff*
Valkyri von Thanatos
Member
Agreed. Somehow, parasites make even less sense, like how the hell does it account for flesh dissolving invisibility? At least the weapons appearing out of thin air barely, sorta, kinda works with Metallic Archaea building the gun on the spot? I don't know, but replacing the skin, but then not only being able to make that invisible, but the entire body? What?
The game was secretly not only the missing link for Peacewalker to Metal Gear 1, but also Snake's Revenge and the Metal Gear Acid games?! Brilliant!
If you are forced to know about hamburgers, common sense we need to know more about parasites.
So in short, the answer isNO, we don't need to know.
Nanomachines and Parasites are the equivalent of Midichlorians.
Perhaps. But I never had any problem with Midichlorians either. They explain jack shit. Are they unnecessary? Of course. Do they ruin the Force? No way, José.
SJRB
Gold Member
They were the best when they were left open to interpretation, before Kojima was hounded to explain shit that really didn't needed an explanation [like Vamp], and before he was forced to close loopholes that were never supposed to be closed..
The Dear Leader
Banned
You guys need some Walbochia in your lives...
Good point. It really doesn't engage on its own. So it just sits there. AFAIK.
They are the easy way out for things to tie together. Like Gluten.
Meh... i guess its ok. Just hearing that word over and over and over and over throughout the game, it gets old. Not very creative, not very good writing imo.
Dick Justice
Banned
I believe the experts call it "Lazy Writing".
I remember accidentally 'touching' her with the Jeep at the landing zone and losing bond points.
It's annoying, definitely. It was annoying as heck in MGS4. But I can live with the concept. They barely explain anything anyways, they might as well be magic. Completely unnecessary, of course. But in the end, it's still bullshit science which basically means supernatural.
maybe he is not aware that you don't have to spell it out to people. Sometimes, things that go unexplained but hinted go a long way. like Dark Souls, or Bloodborne.
The narrative and the "lore" should be embedded in everything. Not just in the words.
In this case, for Kojima. Words that kill. lol.
Man, Sins of the Father takes on a whole new fucked up meaning after this game.
I don't know if Fukushima really kept Kojima in check, but the moment they finished MGS3 and he stopped being Kojima's co-writer... it all went to hell. It's so obvious. Metal Gear Solid 4 started it. Overexplaining everything. Everything needed to have an explanation. It's as if Kojima didn't want any mystery. The smallest detail needed an overly complicated explanation just because.
The thing is... as a writer, you can explain *anything*. But that doesn't mean you should. And in Kojima's case, this is one of his biggest weaknesses, in my opinion. As a reader or gamer, you sometimes want to have some mystery in your story. Some subtle hints here and there, but still mysterious enough to keep things open to interpretation. That's how MGS 1 - 3 felt to me.
I think MGS4 was the worst in this regard, but then again, V gave us a story where we were playing as a false Big Boss... just because. I get it, I get it... under the right circumstances, anyone can become Snake, bla bla bla. Sounds cool in theory, but it's already been done in MGS2 and that game did it so much better, too. Hell, the 'twist' was only the beginning in that game. Here it ends on a similar twist, only difference is that it's much weaker and is just doesn't feel right.
Oh believe me, I agree completely. If I got the choice of 100% supernatural Vamp to "Nanomachines heal him" Vamp, I'd go for supernatural any day of the week. I didn't like the concept of nanomachines used as Deus Ex Machina (Or even worse in my opinion, Parasites). But I just don't "hate" them. There are still unexplained supernatural stuff in the series, so it's not like everything was explained.
Just talking to a good buddy of mine. We were discussing MB.
As it has been established, and i think this is pretty much across the board the same opinion. MB is under utilized. It felt like it was never completed, and never reached the potential it was presented it to be at.
Mission 43, relies on you to care about your soldiers. Honestly, i felt like this was not important at the time. But the more i think about it, the impact of you caring for them would be a bigger blow to your gut when the time comes. We even discussed you killing one of your buddies in this mission.
But mostly. we talked about MB. I think Paz does a great job at giving you a taste of living at MB in her tapes. Its an awesome place. People train, people move and have chats, people play soccer, or bust into fights over nothing. Like BB and Kaz fighting naked. The thing is. MB is an empty "shell" (notice that reference to MGS2 right there.) If they had more interactions of a small city alive, then i think you loosing members of MB would be more meaningful, and not only that. You come to terms to why Kaz and VB lust for revenge.
We talked they should have done a hacky soccer playtime, where they hack from PES or something, i dunno. Things to get you involved in the game and appreciate MB. Right now you never interact with it directly. Only the target practice.. and those are a waste of time.
We both agreed that one of the most successful sequences in a MGS game was that ladder in MGS3. It just works... it creates emotion... and its just good. We compared that to the ride in the jeep with Skullface... and that whole segment was just embarrassing. Not to mention the awkward moment where they stop talking already, and Sins of the Father starts playing. VB at no point reacts to Skullface... he just has this blank look on his face through the whole ride. So why let you look at both of them? Why not make this scene first person, and really make some great motion capture and facial expressions with Skullface? at least that would've engaged me more.
Anyways.... just food for thought i guess. Call me out on any BS. After all... i never really know what i am talking about.
Couldn't agree more. Mother Base was utterly, utterly useless and always felt like a waste of my time, whether exploring it or grinding out time and resources developing it.
It did not in any way feel like a place where people lived and worked. It felt like exactly what it was - a level designed for a multiplayer invasion mode. A level that would allow microtransactions to be implemented to allow you to unlock more.
Good post.
Sumio Mondo
Member
To be fair to Kojima, there was like three other writers on MGSV - Satoshi Hirano who worked on Portable Ops story, Etsu Tamari who previously worked on Rising and Shuya Murata who worked on MGS3, MGS4 and PW with Kojima previously. One of those guys more than likely wrote those awful Code Talker tapes, not Kojima. Pretty sure they were credited as the "Tape Writers", not Kojima.
Mother Base felt like a cool mechanic in Peace Walker and I actually enjoyed it a lot. In MGSV it feels like an afterthought, a place where "cutscenes happen" more than anything. It was pretty boring.
Abso-fucking-lutely.
Mr. Smiley
Member
I mean, this was impossible to top ever.
I think, more than anything else, we're just seeing Kojima with more influence in the writing. He probably thinks he's good at it.
It's s shame (and this is all presumption) that he didn't have a dedicated writer, like Fukushima, that he respected as much as Shinkawa to let handle that aspect of the games. Write notes for him, sure, but filter it through one dude who keeps it all copacetic.
It's s shame (and this is all presumption) that he didn't have a dedicated writer, like Fukushima, that he respected as much as Shinkawa to let handle that aspect of the games. Write notes for him, sure, but filter it through one dude who keeps it all copacetic.
Sumio Mondo
Member
All of this blame being put on Kojima is kinda unfair when he had like THREE other co-writers on MGSV.
Just talking to a good buddy of mine. We were discussing MB.
As it has been established, and i think this is pretty much across the board the same opinion. MB is under utilized. It felt like it was never completed, and never reached the potential it was presented it to be at.
Mission 43, relies on you to care about your soldiers. Honestly, i felt like this was not important at the time. But the more i think about it, the impact of you caring for them would be a bigger blow to your gut when the time comes. We even discussed you killing one of your buddies in this mission.
But mostly. we talked about MB. I think Paz does a great job at giving you a taste of living at MB in her tapes. Its an awesome place. People train, people move and have chats, people play soccer, or bust into fights over nothing. Like BB and Kaz fighting naked. The thing is. MB is an empty "shell" (notice that reference to MGS2 right there.) If they had more interactions of a small city alive, then i think you loosing members of MB would be more meaningful, and not only that. You come to terms to why Kaz and VB lust for revenge.
We talked they should have done a hacky soccer playtime, where they hack from PES or something, i dunno. Things to get you involved in the game and appreciate MB. Right now you never interact with it directly. Only the target practice.. and those are a waste of time.
We both agreed that one of the most successful sequences in a MGS game was that ladder in MGS3. It just works... it creates emotion... and its just good. We compared that to the ride in the jeep with Skullface... and that whole segment was just embarrassing. Not to mention the awkward moment where they stop talking already, and Sins of the Father starts playing. VB at no point reacts to Skullface... he just has this blank look on his face through the whole ride. So why let you look at both of them? Why not make this scene first person, and really make some great motion capture and facial expressions with Skullface? at least that would've engaged me more.
Anyways.... just food for thought i guess. Call me out on any BS. After all... i never really know what i am talking about.
Yeah I don't understand what's the point of having motherbase be a location you can visit besides...having you take a shower and find some diamonds?
Game is filled with half baked ideas unfortunately.
Love Deterrence
Member
The game goes out with a whimper and not a bang, because it ends on the twist rather than capitalizing on it. After Mission 46, the story should keep on rolling and we should become Skull Face himself (given that's sort of what the game was going for). But instead, it all stops on a dime. I'll just convince myself that this is a side story/spin-off as the amount of head-canon required for the gaping holes left by the game is great enough already. Series ended at Ground Zeroes as far as I'm concerned. And I'm cool with that.
Anyone got any tips for mission 11, Hellbound? It's absurd that Sahelanthropus is easier to kill in his boss fight than to lure away and hide from. He just camps near the chopper, and if you lure him back to the base and disappear he'll go straight back there. Also seems to be able to see through rocks. Not sure how I beat this the first time around. Frustrating, too, because I felt like I was on an S-rank run.
Can you get 'Perfect Stealth, No Kills' in that mission? I mean, Sahelanthropus obviously can see you post-cutscene.
To be fair to the Tape Writers, the Truth Tapes were written better than anything that actually happened in the story.
Can you get 'Perfect Stealth, No Kills' in that mission? I mean, Sahelanthropus obviously can see you post-cutscene.
To be fair to the Tape Writers, the Truth Tapes were written better than anything that actually happened in the story.
Then that's a 'too many cooks' situation, and ultimately the fault of Kojima.
If you loose him, and he sends out the scouts, just wear a box. Those can't see through it, and won't detect you.
Once those explode, just move to the extraction zone for pick up.
From the guide
Honestly... all i did was hide in the box so i would not get detected.
Maybe throw decoys?
Love Deterrence
Member
peraughsighteeee vohhhhcuhlll lennnnnngwidgee EENGLische streighnnnnnnnnn
Kojima needed someone to tell him no.
"Ok, so we'll have a virus that is spread via language, and triggered based on particular languages"
"Oh, that sounds cool."
"Right, and we'll also have it explain the superpowers of the Skulls unit ... oh, and the powers of the Cobra unit!"
"Kojima ... please ..."
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Wolbachia
Sumio Mondo
Member
^"Language" was the word that became etched into my brain by the time I finished the game, even moreso than parasites and Wolbachia.
Yeah, I'd like there to be a distinction in the credits on who wrote what, since one of those guys was obviously very good, whilst some of the other tapes were just some of the worst writing in the series (Code Talker tapes especially).
Fukushima used to be the Codec writer and then as soon as he left, Codec was dialled back a lot before they hired new writers to work on these games (Etsu Tamari wrote the Codec for Rising too) and Hirano wrote Portable Ops main story. I'd wager it was one of those two guys who was the one behind the good tapes in MGSV. Murata seems to be a terrible writer, so I doubt it was him.
Yeah, I'd like there to be a distinction in the credits on who wrote what, since one of those guys was obviously very good, whilst some of the other tapes were just some of the worst writing in the series (Code Talker tapes especially).
Fukushima used to be the Codec writer and then as soon as he left, Codec was dialled back a lot before they hired new writers to work on these games (Etsu Tamari wrote the Codec for Rising too) and Hirano wrote Portable Ops main story. I'd wager it was one of those two guys who was the one behind the good tapes in MGSV. Murata seems to be a terrible writer, so I doubt it was him.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Interesting. I liked MGS4's codec a lot but it only had two consistent people you could call in Otacon and Rose. Was sorely missing a robust codec team, and then it vanished entirely after that. Rising's codec was done better than any codec since MGS3.
SnakeLinkSonic
Member
I was honestly expecting some grand pan or view in tandem with Sins of the Father during the truck ride.
When it turned out to be three minutes of awkward dead air, I simply thought the game glitched. After seeing everyone talking about that exact moment online, I was sad to see the truth of the matter. Someone somewhere actually thought that was a good idea.
And then we get lust for revenge scene immediately afterwards just to remind us how stupid things actually are.
When it turned out to be three minutes of awkward dead air, I simply thought the game glitched. After seeing everyone talking about that exact moment online, I was sad to see the truth of the matter. Someone somewhere actually thought that was a good idea.
And then we get lust for revenge scene immediately afterwards just to remind us how stupid things actually are.
That's pretty much my complaint. I don't mind the concept. I can be ok with it. What got me tired is the constant explanations on how they work, down to how they FUCK.
MGS4 told me that Vamp's healing ability was thanks to nanomachines, but they didn't explain HOW those work. What do they do? No. We just got that. It's fairy dust. It's magic.
With parasites not only we got exposition on their prehistoric origins, but they also made us surf through the bullshit that "they actually taught man how to speak", and it seems they are completely sentient (They communicated information to Code Talker at Mother Base). They made us surf through their mating habits and the Wolbachia. They made us surf through the explanation on the whole "they make the body produce mist", photosynthesis, water, affinity to certain languages, infection method...
Nanomachines were "they release chemicals that affect the body to manipulate mood", "they make you immortal", "they give info to the System". That was pretty much it.
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