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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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Unknown One said:
Kojima chickened out. I could tell he has a massive hard on for Big Boss and The Boss after MGS3, which got a ton of needless sequels depicting the fall of Big Boss. MGS3 already got that covered in it's ending. Kojima even shits on Solid Snake saying he's not human and literally takes a shit on him in MGS4. He has no balls to make Big Boss evil. Big Boss is to Kojima as to Lightning is to Toriyama.
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This is an accurate observation.
 
Drencrom said:
Perfect

Kojima really chickened out here. Instead of having a game about what the real Boss did and became, he showed us what his boring, half-assed 'clone' was doing in Africa.

Or was the twist so important to him, that's it's worth wasting our time and tell a non-story instead of the actual story about Big Boss creation of Outer Heaven?
Click to expand...

This is the narratives most glaring annoyance for me and it is the concept of the whole game.

This is why I laugh when people say 'Konami pulled the rug under Kojima / made him cut stuff' or 'If he had more time he could have made more content and pulled it off'

It is the central premise. Nothing added on would change this.
 
I felt disappointed we didn't get an MGS version of this scene

heisenberg-writing-on-the-wall-11.jpg
 
DigitalRicket said:
But isn't that the point? We all thought that Venom, or Big Boss, was gonna be this super bad dude, but in the end he was just a guy with different ideals. They were never really hardcore terrorist like in the same vein as Liquid or Solidus, and even then they themselves were THAT evil... they just had different ideas. None of them killed innocents... Except maybe Solidus when he was part of the civil war with Jack and the child soldiers.

I think everyone expected something that never really was there and Kojima played on those expectations.
Click to expand...

Saying he "played on those expectations" would imply that there was skill involved.

It's a simple case of the characters having no arc or depth and the story having no relevance to the overall canon.
 
CHC said:
Yeah such a ridiculous title. There are almost NO themes of race whatsoever, it seems like it was put in just to give a false sense of shock - like "oh he's really gonna go there now."
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The only place he went is to the "used games" category - because after word-of-mouth gets out about how shitty this game turned out, it will be a rental of a used purchase only for anyone that hasn't already subjected themselves to this nightmare.
 
Deckard Chapel said:
The only place he went is to the "used games" category - because after word-of-mouth gets out about how shitty this game turned out, it will be a rental of a used purchase only for anyone that hasn't already subjected themselves to this nightmare.
Click to expand...
OK, let's put a brake on the hyperbole.

Sure the story is shit.

But, I'll be damned of there is anything that plays and feels as good as TPP does.
At the end of the day, it's still a game. In a mechanical regard it's nearly flawless.
 
DigitalRicket said:
But isn't that the point? We all thought that Venom, or Big Boss, was gonna be this super bad dude, but in the end he was just a guy with different ideals. They were never really hardcore terrorist like in the same vein as Liquid or Solidus, and even then they themselves were THAT evil... they just had different ideas. None of them killed innocents... Except maybe Solidus when he was part of the civil war with Jack and the child soldiers.

I think everyone expected something that never really was there and Kojima played on those expectations.
Click to expand...

There's nothing inherently wrong with that if it weren't for the fact that Kojima went out of his way to claim that MGSV was about the downfall of Big Boss; the legend turned into a demon, filled with anger and out for revenge.

The shrapnel resembling a horn, the belt resembling a devil's tail. All the trailers showing a blood-smeared Big Boss and flashy captions like "RETRIBUTION".

I don't why Kojima deliberaly mislead everyone, but he did.
 
Resilient said:
just another day of being depressed because this game fell short :(
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I agree.

I feel a literal phantom pain for the game this could have been. I have a lingering emptiness inside me that I've felt ever since I saw the "true" ending and then learned of the cut content.

Fuck, back to the bottle I guess.
 
The game is great but yeah, the story isn't perfect, far from it.

Wonderful scenes here and here (Skull Face death, "We are Diamond Dogs.", etc.) but the ending was... I don't know what to say, really. But I guessed that we played a fake Big Boss, something felt wrong during the entire game and I saw that famous reflection in the helicopter, since then, I knew the end twist and when I saw it, I was like "Yeah, ok, what's next?" and after that... nothin'?

It sucks that the mission 51 was cut, and probably the Chapter 3 (don't know if this "Peace" screen is legit though).

And all that demon stuff... Where is it? The scene in the trailers where Venom screams in blood, in the burning village/whatever, it could have been great but nope, not in the game. Does he kill child soldiers? Nope, save them and we don't have the option to (not that I would like that but hey, Kojima promised me taboo stuff). When we kill our own staff? Don't have a choice and it's more depressive than anything else (but it's great).

Spec Ops: The Line is far better in this area, in that game, I felt bad for what I did and the evolution of the "hero" is really cool, I wanted to see something like this in Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain but... Oh well, I have a lot of fun anyway, the gameplay is just perfect for me but it's sad to see that the final Kojima's Metal Gear Solid ends like this.
 
Resilient said:
just another day of being depressed because this game fell short :(
Click to expand...

Hahahahahahahahahaha I am in the same boat. I feel the need to check in "hey guys still heartbroken over how this series I had followed my entire life went down in flames"

And then bounce over to the mgs subreddit to rejuvenate my hope for dlc that at least closes out what was opened up in this game (forget the overarching stuff) #911DLCinbound
 
I had a dream the other night that the game wasn't out yet and Troy Baker in an interview said it was extremely long with plenty of story, cutscenes and some amazing, dramatic events.

Woke up feeling so excited and then it slowly hit me..
 
Love Deterrence said:
Hahahahahahahahahaha I am in the same boat. I feel the need to check in "hey guys still heartbroken over how this series I had followed my entire life went down in flames"

And then bounce over to the mgs subreddit to rejuvenate my hope for dlc that at least closes out what was opened up in this game (forget the overarching stuff) #911DLCinbound
Click to expand...

The realization that this game started to show deep cracks. Only to fall apart at the point where i am at, has been a very traumatic event. I am not even mad anymore. Just dissapointed, and i miss the hype that i had to the game. Maybe this is what Kojima meant by the Phantom Pain.
 
Alienous said:
"Alright, so I was thinking about making a character. She'll be an assassin, the most formidable female soldier Big Boss will have met since The Boss"

"Cool"

"She'll try to assassinate Big Boss in the opening mission, and she'll almost succeed"

"Alright, this sounds good"

"She'll nearly die. She'll be burned alive, but revived by the super power parasites. She'll become an ultra-badass sniper - better than The End"

"Uh ... right ..."

"But the super powers will come at a cost. She'll need to breath through her skin ... see, her lungs were burned, yeah, everything else heals though ... because the parasites nest in the lungs! She doesn't speak too."

"... because of the burned lungs"

"No, the parasites. She'll spread them if she speaks."

"... the ones that gave her super powers?"

"No, different ones."

"..."

"She'll develop a relationship with Big Boss. If you take her out on missions she'll bend over and show you her ass when you're in your helicopter."

"... Mr. Kojima ... I'm begging y-"

"To breathe through her skin she'll wear a bikini and ripped tights. She'll drink by absorbing rainwater with her breasts"

"Mr. Kojima ... nevermind. Ok, sir."
Click to expand...

Reminded me so much of the scene where Patrick Stewart goes through his own idea for a screenplay in extras, lol. Here
 
Prototype said:
OK, let's put a brake on the hyperbole.

Sure the story is shit.

But, I'll be damned of there is anything that plays and feels as good as TPP does.
At the end of the day, it's still a game. In a mechanical regard it's nearly flawless.
Click to expand...

You are correct, but I understand both viewpoints.

If Just Cause 3 released and had a really compelling storyline that delved into the horrors that a dictatorship can inflict, and how a former place of peace can have its citizens rebel to maintain their freedoms, with Rico being -an interesting and well written character that would be cool. If, however, Just Cause 3 also became a linear game burdened with cutscenes and heavy narrative exposition I would be heavily disappointed. I come to Just Cause 3 with an expectation of what I'll get, and deviation from that would disappoint me.

More than being a 'game', games are an experience, and even those non-gameplay aspects contribute to the experience a player has with a game. Amazing gameplay does not absolve a game of the criticism of having a shit story, and having a shit story where there was the expectation of a good or decent one can be a disappointment that makes a game having really tight game mechanics meaningless.
 
Prototype said:
OK, let's put a brake on the hyperbole.

Sure the story is shit.

But, I'll be damned of there is anything that plays and feels as good as TPP does.
At the end of the day, it's still a game. In a mechanical regard it's nearly flawless.
Click to expand...

I would be ok with this, if this game was not MGS.

There are just certain expectations that need to meet for me to consider this game a success.

THe gameplay as you have mentioned is amazing. Way better than other games. Redifines itself nad MGS and to me that is a big one. But this story was supposed to go even deeper. Promises where made, expectations were set. Game fell short. IMO... its because someone put the brakes on KPJ. The game feels unfinished and rush for the second half of it. Or for better wording. Chapter 2 had a good idea, but was rushed and incomplete. Since chapter 1 has good pacing and it reads well, and makes sense.
 
Unknown One said:
Kojima chickened out. I could tell he has a massive hard on for Big Boss and The Boss after MGS3, which got a ton of needless sequels depicting the fall of Big Boss. MGS3 already got that covered in it's ending. Kojima even shits on Solid Snake saying he's not human and literally takes a shit on him in MGS4. He has no balls to make Big Boss evil. Big Boss is to Kojima as to Lightning is to Toriyama.
Click to expand...

I still find it incredibly sad that Kojima seemingly doesn't even understand or get his own themes in his games.

Solid Snake's arc is pretty much the antithesis of Big Boss arc. Big Boss is a downfall arc of a hero that got corrupted, while Solid Snake's arc is an underdog story in which the hero succeeds. In the end, Solid Snake fulfilled what The Boss wanted and saved the world while BB failed trying, even tho Solid was only seen as a pawn made from a superior man and was also destined to fail because of his inferior BB genes. Big Boss even says this to Solid Snake:

Big Boss: [to Solid Snake] I never thought of you as a son, but I always respected you as a soldier... and as a man.​
Kojima saying that he doesn't see Snake as human literally shits on what the games is about and the message they have.

Summary; Solid, you da man and da real MVP ;_;
 
Sebastiano said:
The game is great but yeah, the story isn't perfect, far from it.

Wonderful scenes here and here (Skull Face death, "We are Diamond Dogs.", etc.) but the ending was... I don't know what to say, really. But I guessed that we played a fake Big Boss, something felt wrong during the entire game and I saw that famous reflection in the helicopter, since then, I knew the end twist and when I saw it, I was like "Yeah, ok, what's next?" and after that... nothin'?

It sucks that the mission 51 was cut, and probably the Chapter 3 (don't know if this "Peace" screen is legit though).

And all that demon stuff... Where is it? The scene in the trailers where Venom screams in blood, in the burning village/whatever, it could have been great but nope, not in the game. Does he kill child soldiers? Nope, save them and we don't have the option to (not that I would like that but hey, Kojima promised me taboo stuff). When we kill our own staff? Don't have a choice and it's more depressive than anything else (but it's great).

Spec Ops: The Line is far better in this area, in that game, I felt bad for what I did and the evolution of the "hero" is really cool, I wanted to see something like this in Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain but... Oh well, I have a lot of fun anyway, the gameplay is just perfect for me but it's sad to see that the final Kojima's Metal Gear Solid ends like this.
Click to expand...

O my god, YES. That's it! That's what this game should have been - Spec Ops The Line. That game fucking NAILED the decent into madness, the trauma of battle, losing grip of reality.

Someone should just mod Big Boss' character model in Spec Ops.
 
SJRB said:
O my god, YES. That's it! That's what this game should have been - Spec Ops The Line. That game fucking NAILED the decent into madness, the trauma of battle, losing grip of reality.

Someone should just mod Big Boss' character model in Spec Ops.
Click to expand...

Great idea! That would be closer to what Kojima promised us in the trailers, ha ha.
 
SJRB said:
There's nothing inherently wrong with that if it weren't for the fact that Kojima went out of his way to claim that MGSV was about the downfall of Big Boss; the legend turned into a demon, filled with anger and out for revenge.

The shrapnel resembling a horn, the belt resembling a devil's tail. All the trailers showing a blood-smeared Big Boss and flashy captions like "RETRIBUTION".

I don't why Kojima deliberaly mislead everyone, but he did.
Click to expand...

That was my point. He mislead people into thinking that Big Boss would have this huge heel turn and would be like a dictator like figure to this place called Outer Heaven, but in the end Big Boss himself played on all the legends about himself and even went to show how he could inflate that legend by having someone else act in his behalf to do things when he was out doing his own stuff.

I feel the end of MGSV was to some har humanize what he introduced at he end of MGS4 when Big Boss explained the history between Zero and himself. How in the end Zero himself wasn't an evil guy, just someone whose plans went out of control. And then Big Boss was a guy who manipulated the people around him in a way to make them seem believe he was more than just a good soldier.

Both were "good" dudes with different ways of achieving something and in the end of 4 it was explained that they were wrong in what they were trying to accomplish. The tragedy of it all is that Solid Snake, the guy who followed his missions to the t, who was being controlled by the AI Patriots and the "OG Patriots", ended up living closer to the ideals of The Boss than either BB and Zero. She was loyal to the end, and Solid sorta did that too despite never knowing to the very end that was just a pawn in a bigger game.

Of course, Kojima is just some dude and not a genius but he works with what he's got and has never really played by the rules. People expected something and he pulled the curtain to show the Wizard of Oz was just some dude at a machine. People expected BB to be this bad dude but in the end he was just like Zero, a man controlling the strings.
 
Drencrom said:
I still find it incredibly sad that Kojima seemingly doesn't even understand or get his own themes in his games.

Solid Snake's arc is pretty much the antithesis of Big Boss arc. Big Boss is a downfall arc of a hero that got corrupted, while Solid Snake's arc is an underdog story in which the hero succeeds. In the end, Solid Snake fulfilled what The Boss wanted and saved the world, even tho he was only seen as a pawn made from a superior man and was also destined to fail because of his inferior BB genes. Big Boss even says this to Solid Snake:

Big Boss: [to Solid Snake] I never thought of you as a son, but I always respected you as a soldier... and as a man.​
Kojima saying that he doesn't see Snake as human literally shits on what the games is about and the message they have.

Summary; Solid, you da man and da real MVP ;_;
Click to expand...
Nicely put. I like to add that Solid Snake went to seclusion in Alaska 2 times due to the events he partaken in. Every game until MGS2 had him so depressed that he secluded himself in Alaska. He is more effected by what happened than he shows. Kojima just shits on that stating Solid is not human.
 
SJRB said:
O my god, YES. That's it! That's what this game should have been - Spec Ops The Line. That game fucking NAILED the decent into madness, the trauma of battle, losing grip of reality.

Someone should just mod Big Boss' character model in Spec Ops.
Click to expand...

maybe if someone made a movie out of it and then showed it to Kojima in place of Mad Max.
 
O my god all these people asking impossible questions in the OT.

What's wrong with just playing the game? They're ruining it for themselves.
 
DigitalRicket said:
That was my point. He mislead people into thinking that Big Boss would have this huge heel turn and would be like a dictator like figure to this place called Outer Heaven, but in the end Big Boss himself played on all the legends about himself and even went to show how he could inflate that legend by having someone else act in his behalf to do things when he was out doing his own stuff.

I feel the end of MGSV was to some har humanize what he introduced at he end of MGS4 when Big Boss explained the history between Zero and himself. How in the end Zero himself wasn't an evil guy, just someone whose plans went out of control. And then Big Boss was a guy who manipulated the people around him in a way to make them seem believe he was more than just a good soldier.

Both were "good" dudes with different ways of achieving something and in the end of 4 it was explained that they were wrong in what they were trying to accomplish. The tragedy of it all is that Solid Snake, the guy who followed his missions to the t, who was being controlled by the AI Patriots and the "OG Patriots", ended up living closer to the ideals of The Boss than either BB and Zero. She was loyal to the end, and Solid sorta did that too despite never knowing to the very end that was just a pawn in a bigger game.

Of course, Kojima is just some dude and not a genius but he works with what he's got and has never really played by the rules. People expected something and he pulled the curtain to show the Wizard of Oz was just some dude at a machine. People expected BB to be this bad dude but in the end he was just like Zero, a man controlling the strings.
Click to expand...

like I said before, none of this works as long as MG2 exists as it is, the Big Boss in that game was an old crusty bloodthirsty bastard who traumatized Solid Snake into a life of drinking himself into a stupor in Alaska.
 
Kojima just hates Solid for forcing him to make games he didn't want to.

He likes Boss because he was able to do something different with base building and fultoning and all the other crazy stuff Solid Snake wouldn't do. Boss let him make a different Metal Gear.
 
SJRB said:
O my god all these people asking impossible questions in the OT.

What's wrong with just playing the game? They're ruining it for themselves.
Click to expand...

The quarantine ones are the worst.

Like, why don't you just have the experience of trying to figure it out and maybe failing? That's where the tension comes from.
 
DigitalRicket said:
That was my point. He mislead people into thinking that Big Boss would have this huge heel turn and would be like a dictator like figure to this place called Outer Heaven, but in the end Big Boss himself played on all the legends about himself and even went to show how he could inflate that legend by having someone else act in his behalf to do things when he was out doing his own stuff.

I feel the end of MGSV was to some har humanize what he introduced at he end of MGS4 when Big Boss explained the history between Zero and himself. How in the end Zero himself wasn't an evil guy, just someone whose plans went out of control. And then Big Boss was a guy who manipulated the people around him in a way to make them seem believe he was more than just a good soldier.

Both were "good" dudes with different ways of achieving something and in the end of 4 it was explained that they were wrong in what they were trying to accomplish. The tragedy of it all is that Solid Snake, the guy who followed his missions to the t, who was being controlled by the AI Patriots and the "OG Patriots", ended up living closer to the ideals of The Boss than either BB and Zero. She was loyal to the end, and Solid sorta did that too despite never knowing to the very end that was just a pawn in a bigger game.

Of course, Kojima is just some dude and not a genius but he works with what he's got and has never really played by the rules. People expected something and he pulled the curtain to show the Wizard of Oz was just some dude at a machine. People expected BB to be this bad dude but in the end he was just like Zero, a man controlling the strings.
Click to expand...

Yeah no, BB is a psychotic warmonger in MG1/2 that employs child soldiers in conflicts and fosters new soldiers from the children that survived and lost their parents etc. He literally says that war and conflict is the only thing that keeps him going lol
 
The horn and loose belt were supposed to represent a devil horn and devil tail.

Surely there was something about how he became a demon? The only time he hurts someone severely is when he blows of Skullface's limbs, but Skullface is such an over-the-top bad guy in the first place.

Its one thing to say "well the legend of Big Boss is based on lies and exaggerations". Eva already confirmed that in MGS4. But there is no real point to misleading the audience when it comes to Venom Snake...?
 
Toa TAK said:
I thought we were at depression a few posts before.
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Maybe some people move on faster than others, but yesterday the general mood was definitely still at Anger. Lol. Now with MGO coming and TGS in full swing, I expect quite a bit of Bargaining. Depression will probably set in as more departures from Konami are announced over the next few months. Acceptance might take... a long time.
 
Drencrom said:
Yeah no, BB is a psychotic warmonger in MG1/2 that employs child soldiers in conflicts and fosters new soldiers from the children that survived and lost their parents etc. He literally says that war and conflict is the only thing that keeps him going lol
Click to expand...

What if that BB is Venom after discovering he's Medic, and just not having the fortitude to stay the course like the real thing. Losing Quiet must've been a big blow.

Or parasites.
 
duckroll said:
Maybe some people move on faster than others, but yesterday the general mood was definitely still at Anger. Lol. Now with MGO coming and TGS in full swing, I expect quite a bit of Bargaining. Depression will probably set in as more departures from Konami are announced over the next few months. Acceptance might take... a long time.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to quell the anger with money. Money will solve MGSV problems.
 
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