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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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Is this how fans felt when MGS2 released? I almost don't want to play the game anymore because of this imposter.

at first I was mad I wasnt playing snake but that was a twist 20 minutes into the game not the last 20, also throughout the game it was thoroughly explained and what was going on, mgsv was like a drive by shitting, it hit you in the face and stunk


ps. fuck rose
 
Did people predict this twist that long ago?

I immediately suspected it because Ishamel is obviously Kiefers voice. But then he vanished and I thought it was a hallucination
People predicted the twist as far as the very first trailer back in 2013.

Back then those people were mocked because most agreed the twist was too stupid.
 
Wolbachia?
Tbh I'm actually still a bit confused on the whole parasites thing.

Like some parasites turn you into a vegetable, some give you super powers, some can be cured, some make you infertile, and some don't really do anything as long as you don't speak the language of the strain.

I'll just read up on them later. Anything but listening to Code Talker's hour long tapes again...
 
Did people predict this twist that long ago?

I immediately suspected it because Ishamel is obviously Kiefers voice. But then he vanished and I thought it was a hallucination

Kojima even hinted/spoiled it in the reveal interview. It's strange I don't think KojiPro tried to hide it much...maybe they knew this was gonna be the last Konami game (lol) and the twist of "you are the legend big boss" was a thanks to the fans.

thank you fans. u mad lol!?
 
I loved every second of my first MGS2 playthrough.

I can't say the same for MGSV. I might never play it again.
You were cool with Raiden and Rose then? In midst of all the mindfuck that was MGSVs opening hour, I was just baffled that Kojima would return to a trick that was probably the least popular in the whole series. This is not fucking Metal Gear Ac!d.
Kojima even hinted/spoiled it in the reveal interview. It's strange I don't think KojiPro tried to hide it much...maybe they knew this was gonna be the last Konami game (lol) and the twist of "you are the legend big boss" was a thanks to the fans.

thank you fans. u mad lol!?
Yeah, it totally was. We are all Big Boss. Awesome!!!
 
"You play as a double in MGSV" has been the biggest fan theory pretty much throughout the game's development. There are dozens of hour-long, incoherent rambling conspiracy theory videos on Youtube about it, people jumping to wild conclusions. "It can't be the real Big Boss, because there was a line in Peace Walker about him only liking real cigars, but in MGSV he smokes a digital cigar!", that kind of thing. One of the bigger ones was that we'd be playing as Gray Fox, because someone saw a random Fox Engine face model in one of KojiPro's videos and decided it looked exactly like Gray Fox's face from The Twin Snakes.

I always scoffed at them, because I thought it was too dumb even for Kojima, but here we are. Played me like a damned fiddle.
 
It cracks me up how Kojima probably thought he was putting in a heartfelt goodbye to the fans with the "you're Big Boss" stuff only to be responded back with a "FUCK YOU" from everyone.
 
I didn't know snake could go colorblind, I mean I've seen it in episode 51 though. After dodging an explosion I couldn't see the color red on my screen for like 2 minutes.

As much as I like the fan made comic it doesnt sync with the ending because venom seems pissed at the real big boss that he is going to die, he helped spread a legend for years and in the end he is pissed he has to die for it
He's angry when solid snake is knocking at his door. He actually smirks when he comes to the realization that he isn't really big boss.
 
The Truth scene is bullshit because Big Boss was an old man by the time of Operation Intrude N313, gray, weathered and losing hair. Venom Snake is still young, arguably due to plastic surgery. But Solid Snake doesn't think it's weird that his master suddenly got younger, with a prosthetic arm and a horn. After speaking to Big Boss the previous day.

Also why are there two Outer Heaven logos at all? So unnecessary.
 
He really did deserve it. Ground Zeroes, having Paz tortured and brutalized, Chico, all that.

Saw none of that. Though my guys were like "Well of course we have to kill Quiet, she might spill the beans on our giant fucking ocean base".

My point is, I was never given a reason to hate the guy, but given numerous reasons to hate my guys.

The presentation of the story, the characters, and the story itself, were so poorly done, that I just don't care. The only time I got angry (or felt any emotion at all because of the story) was when my guys were torturing Quiet. Skullface just tried to monologue me to death.

I honestly don't know who I was supposed to root for. I guess it was Snake, but he barely said anything. That the game even tries deal with heavy subject matter just seems insulting. Like, I know I was supposed to care that I shot all my infected crew but I really don't know why, or what meaning of it was. Shit like that.

And really, I hated Miller a whole lot more than Skullface.
 
If you haven't brought all the photos to Paz, you can do that and there is a neat side-story there. Otherwise, that's all folks.

I did that a while ago. Thanks for letting me know! I just watched the Mission 51 stuff on YouTube, too. Time to continue my chronological playthrough of the series and play through Metal Gear for the first time (beat all the other games except Metal Gear 2 and Rising in the past). It'll be weird with the knowledge I have now.
 
And really, I hated Miller a whole lot more than Skullface.

forreal. he was the true villain of this game. it was pretty funny how he finds out Quiet was trying to stop the virus from spreading when attacking that soldier and still shits on her immediately after.

dude was just irrationally pissy at times. and then we got ocelot being so laid back.
 
forreal. he was the true villain of this game. it was pretty funny how he finds out Quiet was trying to stop the virus from spreading when attacking that soldier and still shits on her immediately after.

dude was just irrationally pissy at times. and then we got ocelot being so laid back.
I think he really was supposed to be the villain. Even Code Talker said to be careful of the guy.
 
I finished it properly today. The game is great, really phenomenal game. the gameplay is really fun and i think the execution of the peace walker concept has finally been realized in this game. I've spent 80 hours in the game and i always needed to force myself to stop playing because i was loving it. The story also has a lot of cool beats, and i like the cutscenes and tapes.

But, it's a shame that the game is not properly finished. Chapter 2 was obviously going to be so much more. Because the actual missions are only 6 i believe, and none of them have story progression, with the exception of mission 43, 45 and 46 i think. All the others follow the structure: finish the mission, go back to mother base for more story exposition. While i really like the cutscenes and tapes, it feels really disjointed compared to chapter 1.

Since the reveal that kojima and his team were going to be fired, i feared that the work environment and the need to finish the game to hit the deadline made them drop everything that was still work in progress, and try to polish the structure of the game as much as they could to deliver a quality game with what they had. That's why i think we also got lots of tapes in the second chapter. I feel some of them would really be cutscenes instead of just audio. I think that their work this year was basically this: polishing it up.

As for the twist itself, i kind of liked it, and i feel that they did it for the eventual metal gear 1 & 2 remake that would happen, with you fighting venom snake, and then big boss. Also, it would be cool if we had to fight dd for example. Even if people are disappointed that this game is not the final link, it feels like a game that was setting up for the remakes. Kojima would never really stop making mg games, at least not with this one, and i think he was happy having the possibility to sidetrack to silent hills and then come game to metal gear. So while this is the last kojima metal gear game, i don't think he ever intended to be his actual last metal gear game.

it would be cool if after kojima and co are done with their contracts, they could show us more of the stuff that was planned for the game.


i don't blame kojima and his team for the unfinished stage that some things were. it's a great game and probably one of my favorite metal gear games. After all, i still spent 80 hours with it (and will probably spent many more in the future), just sad that we won't have the lord of the flies island and other things that were planned for the game.
 
Kaz Miller was amazing. Just off the rails breed of crazy. On the other hand Ocelot was ridiculously calm and rational for the entirety of the game. It was a bit too on the nose that the two were playing opposites.. sort of like the angel/devil on the shoulder for Boss.

And yeah it's pretty obvious that Kojima's message for MGSV was that YOU are Big Boss. This is obvious with you creating the character of Ahab essentially.
 
It cracks me up how Kojima probably thought he was putting in a heartfelt goodbye to the fans with the "you're Big Boss" stuff only to be responded back with a "FUCK YOU" from everyone.

I doubt people will feel that way a few months from now.

I think everyone's initial reaction to the ending will be negative. However, I'm starting to come to terms with it. I do like the outer narrative of the Big Boss legacy being a constructed lie. The legend is what matters, not the man behind the legend.
 
Right?

The game could have benefited from more 80s flavor across the board, it's a big step down from MGS3 where 60s aesthetics and technology added so much to the game's personality.

Outside of Venom having a walkman strapped to his belt, MGSV feels like it could be set whenever.

I was annoyed that there was no awesome Bond-esque 80s vibe intro utilizing the A Phantom Pain track. Imagine it with shattered glass, fire, mechanical limbs, blood, would be amazing.
 
I think the negative reaction is going to come from "I spent 90+ hours for this?"

This is the first MGS game where the cutscene to game play ratio is extremely skewered towards the game play. Despite having more than 5 hours worth of cutscenes (and a ton of audio in the cassettes), the story beats far and few in between.

Not only that but you spend so much time on useless, filler crap. I am not talking about the side op missions but rather stuff like trekking through the open world, the cutscene that always play when you are being deployed or having the chopper take so fucking long to extract you out, take your to the ACC and then wherever you are going next. I have seen these same old animations/mini cutscenes so many times now that I basically don't go back to the ACC now until I have used up all the Side Ops in the map at a time (still have to go back after doing like 3-4 so that new ones pop up).
 
I think the negative reaction is going to come from "I spent 90+ hours for this?"

This is the first MGS game where the cutscene to game play ratio is extremely skewered towards the game play. Despite having more than 5 hours worth of cutscenes (and a ton of audio in the cassettes), the story beats far and few in between.

No, the problem is that the game's narrative structure is shit.
 
Do you ever have something really sink in way after the fact you've initially learned/experienced it?

Right now I'm having that scenario play out with regards to Quiet and Venom. It's really sad how something was there between them and once Quiet abruptly leaves it appears she and Venom never see each other again.

I NEVER get sad about games (except killing the Collosi in SOTC and the opening of TLOU), but these thoughts are hitting me right in the feels at 3:30 AM.

Poor, poor Venom. I love this guy more and more each day. F Big Boss!
 
I doubt people will feel that way a few months from now.

I think everyone's initial reaction to the ending will be negative. However, I'm starting to come to terms with it. I do like the outer narrative of the Big Boss legacy being a constructed lie. The legend is what matters, not the man behind the legend.

I think you're right, actually the last couple of days I have been coming in terms with how the game plays out. I just needed some time to let it digest I guess.
Same thing happened with MGS2, only that one took a long time for me to accept and appreciate it the way that I do today.

And concerning the bolded statement? *SALUTE*
 
I doubt people will feel that way a few months from now.

I think everyone's initial reaction to the ending will be negative. However, I'm starting to come to terms with it. I do like the outer narrative of the Big Boss legacy being a constructed lie. The legend is what matters, not the man behind the legend.
But how is it a lie exactly?

We played MGS3. Big Boss was in an impossible mission, and even with help it would be unlikely he would succeed. And yet he did.

The stuff that Portable Ops doesnt conflict with, he manages to break out of prison, create a small army, stop a nuclear threat and founds FOXHOUND.

Peacewalker has him making his army even bigger, liberating a country and stopping another nucleur threat

Where is the lie again? Like people keep saying this as if it means something but the legend of Big Boss is hardly a lie.
 
But how is it a lie exactly?

We played MGS3. Big Boss was in an impossible mission, and even with help it would be unlikely he would succeed. And yet he did.

The stuff that Portable Ops doesnt conflict with, he manages to break out of prison, create a small army, stop a nuclear threat and founds FOXHOUND.

Peacewalker has him making his army even bigger, liberating a country and stopping another nucleur threat

Where is the lie again? Like people keep saying this as if it means something but the legend of Big Boss is hardly a lie.

I don't think of it as a lie in terms of BB's legacy....the legend. The lie is fooling the public. The same way the the public was fooled into making them believe that The Boss was a war criminal and defector.
 
This track is phenomenal, I wish the game's actual score dipped into synth-pop territory more. The composer is clearly talented.

My thoughts are about the same - not incorporating some more of those elements into the rest of the game's score was such a waste, given how well Forssell nails that style in Behind the Drapery and A Phantom Pain. The entire soundtrack wouldn't have had to be synthpop, necessarily, but having more of the ingame music integrate elements of it or be more consciously derivative of 80s film soundtracks as opposed to contemporary scoring could have contributed a lot more to the game's sense of identity - as it stands, nothing in the series has managed to be as consciously evocative of a time period as Snake Eater.

I'm actually a little surprised Kojima didn't want the soundtrack to rip off Vangelis at any point; considering he essentially directed an unlicensed adaptation of Blade Runner.
 
the more i think about it the more I would've liked some kind of mini questline where the base is missing GMP and it turns out miller was siphoning it off to build his hamburger empire
 
the more i think about it the more I would've liked some kind of mini questline where the base is missing GMP and it turns out miller was siphoning it off to build his hamburger empire

I thought the chemical burgers thing was referencing McDonalds, and that Miller and Codetalker were going to sell it them (or some other fast food chain)
 
Ōkami;179320003 said:
The thing about MGS 2.

We didn't predic the twist years in advance.
It isn't the biggest twist in the game.
It happens like 30 minutes in.

Debatable. The whole patriots AI twist is hardly bigger than not playing as the series main character out of fucking nowhere.
 
I thought the chemical burgers thing was referencing McDonalds, and that Miller and Codetalker were going to sell it them (or some other fast food chain)

probably, but it's good background for some fun sidequest shennanigans instead of interminably dull side ops
 
at first I was mad I wasnt playing snake but that was a twist 20 minutes into the game not the last 20, also throughout the game it was thoroughly explained and what was going on, mgsv was like a drive by shitting, it hit you in the face and stunk


ps. fuck rose

Thank god for the triangle codec skip button after I finished it the first time I skipped every single one of those conversations they're mind numbingly dumb.

Debatable. The whole patriots AI twist is hardly bigger than not playing as the series main character out of fucking nowhere.

What about the twist that Pliskin is actually Snake that one comes out of no where.
 
I beat mission 46 without ever unlocking mission 45, which now sounds pretty important!

I never used Quiet in the game, though, so it seems like a pain to max out her bond to unlock 45 (which apparently requires playing 150, which I have yet to unlock as well). Or is there another way?
 
So, I was watching Harry Potter 7.1 again today and I realized that this scene from the movie could have been the Quiet/Snake rain scene done right. Not pandering, not cheesy romantic but instead just silent, subtle, but full of emotional reprieve from the torment both characters have been through (especially if it's after mission 43 in terms of Snake).

Hell, you know what? If we go by NotTheGuyYouKill's iteration of having that big fat final mission in Camp Omega, I want that kind of scene right before that mission involving every remaining character of the MB crew. Have them gather up in a solemn mood right before the big mission, then slowly break the ice into an outright fun activity (football game, dance, whatever) with everyone clearly having a helluva time. Then, immediately after everything settles, everyone regresses back into a depressing silent mood knowing what's coming next.

aka I wanted a Peace Day sequence.
 
But how is it a lie exactly?

We played MGS3. Big Boss was in an impossible mission, and even with help it would be unlikely he would succeed. And yet he did.

The stuff that Portable Ops doesnt conflict with, he manages to break out of prison, create a small army, stop a nuclear threat and founds FOXHOUND.

Peacewalker has him making his army even bigger, liberating a country and stopping another nucleur threat

Where is the lie again? Like people keep saying this as if it means something but the legend of Big Boss is hardly a lie.

Well, In order to keep that legend growing, Big Boss relied on a phantom to take his place.

Let's be honest here, Big Boss is most famous for his creation of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land. The stuff in Portable Ops and Peace Walker is not the greater part of his legacy. Even a renowned leader like Big Boss had to construct a fake duplicate to pull off his greater scheme.

The reputation of the legend lives on, and Big Boss becomes a messiah figure that soldiers look up to. However, the man behind that legend is a lie. The years leading to the uprising of Outer Heaven was someone else entirely. Big Boss had to go into hiding just to make Zanzibar land work.
 
Ōkami;179320003 said:
The thing about MGS 2.

We didn't predic the twist years in advance.
It isn't the biggest twist in the game.
It happens like 30 minutes in.

Seems like Kojima just really wanted another MGS2 like moment to end the series...and did it in the worst possible way.
 
Well, In order to keep that legend growing, Big Boss relied on a phantom to take his place.

Let's be honest here, Big Boss is most famous for his creation of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land.

He was famous for becoming a terrorist when he yknow, became a terrorist. Before that he was famous for being an amazing soldier with his combat prowess. That element didn't spawn out of Outer Heaven.
 
I beat mission 46 without ever unlocking mission 45, which now sounds pretty important!

I never used Quiet in the game, though, so it seems like a pain to max out her bond to unlock 45 (which apparently requires playing 150, which I have yet to unlock as well). Or is there another way?

You need to max her bond, but it shouldn't take too long if you take her along on some side-ops and let her take out enemies. Also make sure to stare at her in the ACC to raise her bond quickly (I wish I was kidding). Using the "Quiet" command from time to time also raises her bond level a bit.

Shouldn't even take an hour to max it out I think.
 
However, the man behind that legend is a lie.

I've said it before but this is nonsense and not implied by the game at all. It's a poor excuse with no legs to stand on, just like all the others.

Big Boss was a legend already, there are no lies. He did all the things that made him a legend and his progression as a legend was already depicted, from his impossible mission in Snake Eater, to his realization that he's a natural leader who resolves to direct his own fate, to a legendary commander ready to literally take on the world without allies with a firm ambition and concrete dream for the world itself. Big Boss still continues being a legend by intervening in conflicts globally even after Venom Snake wakes up, making Venom Snake utterly pointless because Big Boss was putting himself in the very situations Venom Snake was created to prevent.

Venom Snake did nothing worth noting, none of his exploits are conveyed, mentioned or hinted at by later titles. He contributed nothing to the legend of Big Boss. The legend the characters of the series and we the players ourselves hear about does not involve Venom Snake at all. We've heard of Big Boss' exploits in Russia, Mozambique, Columbia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Kuwait, and so on. Nothing about Afghanistan or Angola, because nothing that happened there mattered to later events or even remembered by anyone directly involved in them. Ocelot and Miller are complete opposites of their established personalities.

If Kojima wanted to deconstruct the legend of Big Boss, he would've shown us his exploits that have actually been mentioned in passing throughout the series. Instead, we get a completely throwaway and utterly inconsequential series of events that explain nothing and add nothing. Liquid mentions in MGS1 that Big Boss belittled him as inferior, but he never met the real Big Boss and not even Venom Snake actually said anything to him of that nature, instead quite the opposite.

Kojima just wanted a twist for the sake of a twist. It's hard to decipher the motivation behind it because there was none, no explanation makes sense because the twist wasn't a natural progression of any plot points. It was shoehorned in for the sake of a cheap shock factor. In the end we're left with a story that is of absolutely no consequence to anything else in the series, with Portable Ops and Peace Walker having far much more immediate relevance.
 
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