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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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Alienous said:
But, I mean, a 'war' should at least have the two sides be at odds.

Big Boss wasn't opposed to Zero until the end of Peace Walker, maybe disliked him for a year, and the two had reconciled their differences by the time he woke up. So they were maybe pitted against each-other for a year, and never actually did any fighting.
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Big Boss left Zero over LET, and Big Boss wasn't aware of Zero's visit, by the time he came to Zero was already braindead and hidden away, with his organization being run by proxy, misusing the legacy. Ocelot, Big Boss, and EVa ended up going to war with Zero's phantom. (sorry 'bout that lol)

SuperStiltzkin said:
I got the impression that it was a shadow war. Not one fought by armies on a battlefield, but still just as heated as a hot war . It was a war fought by schemes and espionage. Hence EVA and Ocelot plotting to kill Para Medic and Sigint.
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Yeah that all happens. The stuff with Zero in V was information for the player to contextualize his character, and how his ideals could become corrupted and lead to the problems it did. Otherwise he was a wacky James Bond fan with a silly movie buff doctor and wacky black guy black guy guy. I feel that, between PW and V, we have a proper bridge between 3 and 4. This game fixes 4's problems, which sucks because 4 shouldn't have had the problems it did in the first place, but at least I don't feel like half of 4's story is un-deserved nonsense (even if it's in hindsight)

And like...we still might get more out of V. there could be DLC plans...Camp Omega, Kingdom of Flies, New York even? I feel like if we get to december and we haven't heard anything, though, it might not be happening. (But we're still early. There's still cruises to ruse)
 
Creating Venom Snake and not letting the player have more influence over the moral decisions he makes is weird. It's like a pre-defined blank canvas. Why?
 
To add to the "haha got you!" bit, I also think a game that prides itself on the AAA "standard goalpost" of "over 100 hours of gameplay!!11one" is an odd choice for such a jarring, rug-swept bad finish. Maybe I'm just showing my super-niche stripes once again, but to me, that's just a middle finger that'd prevent me from wanting to master any of these missions.

Then again, I stopped playing 20 hours in, anyway.

In other news, some folks on my GameFAQs board seem surprisingly OK with the narrative. Good for them, I guess! I... think they didn't care as much, is all. But there's this whole "oh Jeff Zero, he's just being Jeff Zero" reaction when I voice dissent. So I dunno. Maybe we're all weird.
 
JackelZXA said:
Their ideals were at odds and they lost their friendship. They were never at war?
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Except for their part where EVA specifically says that they were against each other the whole time. Like even on a metaphorical sense, it makes no sense. Big Boss just ignored Zero for years while Zero gives him ultimatums in Peacewalker and then immediately switches back to best buds mode here only to go into a vegetative state. So there was no war against Big Boss and Zero, no cold war, no subterfuge, there was nothing between them.
 
Alienous said:
Creating Venom Snake and not letting the player have more influence over the moral decisions he makes is weird. It's like a pre-defined blank canvas. Why?
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Cuz they didn't want any decisions to be made. Its not about you playing yourself. Its about you playing Big Boss in the form of either Venom Snake, your avatar, or any of the Combat Units who everyone still refers to as Snake/Boss. You're just a proxy for living out the legend of Big Boss.
 
Sub_Level said:
Cuz they didn't want any decisions to be made. Its not about you playing yourself. Its about you playing Big Boss in the form of either Venom Snake, your avatar, or any of the Combat Units who everyone still refers to as Snake/Boss. You're just a proxy for living out the legend of Big Boss.
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I think you can decide to kill quiet after her boss fight and she fades away. You can also shoot or not shoot skullface (though kaz still "takes his shot", as does Huey) I don't think there are any other moments like this in any cutscenes where you have a choice to do one thing or another?


MGS1 had kinf of a big choice that they just eventually picked a favorite on in mgs4. mgs2 was pretty clever in that it didnt tell you which mgs1 ending was canon.
 
The Skullface choice is irrelevant within seconds and the Quiet choice is stupid. It's the choice between more content and no content. You don't get nothing in return, just a buddy less with less missions and less story and impossible completion. That's one dumb choice. Would've really liked it, if you would've gotten a buddy with a different story along the way in return. Otherwise they only choice you have is not to kill her.
 
Alienous said:
Creating Venom Snake and not letting the player have more influence over the moral decisions he makes is weird. It's like a pre-defined blank canvas. Why?
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yeah, while i'm sure some people would have reviled the idea of mgs going a bit mass effect, it would have served the narrative pretty well here. ah well. we'll always have the superb infiltration gameplay.

you know what i would have liked? the switcharoo twist coming halfway through the game. it could lead into or even succeed a series of missions unrelated to growing diamond dogs or chasing skull face, but instead being tasked with getting resources, info, skilled people, or weapons for the formation of big boss' nation. honestly would have been a more interesting way to explain the missions where venom snake is doing work unrelated to the core story.
 
JackelZXA said:
I think you can decide to kill quiet after her boss fight and she fades away. You can also shoot or not shoot skullface (though kaz still "takes his shot", as does Huey) I don't think there are any other moments like this in any cutscenes where you have a choice to do one thing or another?


MGS1 had kinf of a big choice that they just eventually picked a favorite on in mgs4. mgs2 was pretty clever in that it didnt tell you which mgs1 ending was canon.
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MGS2 actually did confirm that the Meryl ending was canon.

Its under "In the Darkness of Shadow Moses", a book you could read written by Nastasha. Its in the menus.
 
JackelZXA said:
Yeah that all happens. The stuff with Zero in V was information for the player to contextualize his character, and how his ideals could become corrupted and lead to the problems it did. Otherwise he was a wacky James Bond fan with a silly movie buff doctor and wacky black guy black guy guy. I feel that, between PW and V, we have a proper bridge between 3 and 4. This game fixes 4's problems, which sucks because 4 shouldn't have had the problems it did in the first place, but at least I don't feel like half of 4's story is un-deserved nonsense (even if it's in hindsight)

And like...we still might get more out of V. there could be DLC plans...Camp Omega, Kingdom of Flies, New York even? I feel like if we get to december and we haven't heard anything, though, it might not be happening. (But we're still early. There's still cruises to ruse)
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MGSV just makes me think that there was no secret war or confrontation. There was the ZEKE incident, but Zero seems to have buried the hatchet with that, even if Big Boss hasn't. It makes this multi-decade, super elaborate shadow war seem like it never should have existed. Has it never crossed Ocelot's mind to let Big Boss know that Zero went through all that trouble to not only save his life, but give him a new one? And Big Boss uses his new life to create a violent uprising via Zanzibar Land in opposition to Zero's interpretation of the Boss' will? Honestly, Big Boss going into hiding seems completely pointless as XOF seems to be the only one who wants him dead. The Boogieman they were hiding from was the one helping them all along. They kill Para Medic and Sigint who weren't really out to kill Big Boss nor were they working for Zero since he was rendered a vegetable. And whatever transgressions they have committed are too late to turn back. Big Boss got cloned and the Patriot AI system had launched.

tl;dr The actions that Big Boss/EVA/Ocelot took by the events of MGS1 (as we're told in MGS4) seem like misdirected overreactions to what actually transpired in MGSV.

It's a war we're told to be the crux of all things that happened in Metal Gear and beyond. And in MGSV it seems like there wasn't necessarily a war to be had.
 
MGSV just seems like another BB adventure from the countless stories of the legendary mercenary hell Kojima could do another story where BB does another MB ala DD.. Assuming he was around at Konami, ultimately Kojima didn't have the balls to make him the bad guy.
 
Chakra_Khan said:
Did you guys like time winters performance as zero though?
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Of course. He did an excellent job.

NoctisVsStar said:
MGSV just seems like another BB adventure from the countless stories of the legendary mercenary hell Kojima could do another story where BB does another MB ala DD
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Maybe that was his intention.

XPTyySm.jpg
 
You know what could've been cool "post-post game" content after 46?


If we played as Big Boss XOF-ing Venom Snake, as in setting up/cleaning up after him on certain previous missions.
 
MMarston said:
You know what could've been cool "post-post game" content after 46?


If we played as Big Boss XOF-ing Venom Snake, as in setting up/cleaning up after him on certain previous missions.
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Diamond Dogs

Sgod Dnomaid

From dawgs 2 phantoms were born. The Skullface Incident was scripted and set up by Cool Warm Man.
 
NotTheGuyYouKill said:
*snip*
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I really love this write up. There are so many interesting things that could have been done with the ideas put forth in MGSV. You know, instead of nothing.

One criticism though: Quiet is already a character built out of sexist imagery and tropes, you probably don't need to add the "Woman in Refrigerator" trope to the list. Just my two cents.

Other than that I'm totally ready to believe this was an alternate MGSV.
 
jett said:
Absolutely not.

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MGS3 Ocelot is honestly, for me, my favorite character in the entire series.
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It's so sad that this amazing character turned into whatever Ocelot is supposed to be in MGSV.

It's like the guy became a fucking bore in his 40s (his middle age crisis perhaps lol) and then became eccentric and awesome again somewhere down the line until MGS1.
 
If Keifer was too expensive then why is the amount of dialogue he recorded on par with pretty much every other game in the series? Or did he do the tapes for free or something?

Also, for being too expensive he sure did an awful lot of mocap work. Or is that cheaper then recording dialogue now??
 
Moon_frogger said:
If Keifer was too expensive then why is the amount of dialogue he recorded on par with pretty much every other game in the series? Or did he do the tapes for free or something?
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What makes you think this is true? Are you one of those guys who has this assumption that he talks his ass off in the tapes, when in reality he only talks a bit more than he does in the cutscenes?

Moon_frogger said:
Also, for being too expensive he sure did an awful lot of mocap work. Or is that cheaper then recording dialogue now??
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He only did the facial mo-cap for cutscenes. Quite a bit of passive-aggressiveness there, be careful or you could cut someone with your edginess.
 
Moon_frogger said:
If Keifer was too expensive then why is the amount of dialogue he recorded on par with pretty much every other game in the series? Or did he do the tapes for free or something?

Also, for being too expensive he sure did an awful lot of mocap work. Or is that cheaper then recording dialogue now??
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Keifer expensive is a load of bull imo
 
Dick Justice said:
What makes you think this is true?
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I'd love to see a tally. It's really not that much less than other games. I mean, snake grunts and parrots back short phrases a lot in the other games, but it's the other characters that do the extended monologues. I guess he talked a lot in peace walker but that was one game....
 
Moon_frogger said:
I'd love to see a tally. It's really not that much less than other games. I mean, snake grunts and parrots back short phrases a lot in the other games, but it's the other characters that do the extended monologues. I guess he talked a lot in peace walker but that was one game....
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Yeah, he sure delivers a lot of Shakespearean monologues in this one, right?

Also, "The stuff he does say in those games totally doesn't count". He has tons of back and forth conversations in the older games, most notably over codec and radio.
 
I've just wrapped up Mission 31 and listening to all the tapes I have available, I still don't get why Sahelanthropus was such a huge deal in the game's story other than the "hey guys don't forget it's a metal gear game" angle. Even the nuke self destruct seems really goofy and impractical in a lot of ways. It's separate from the nukes that Skull Face was going to sell, right?

Also how the fuck it's doing half the things it does in that fight...
 
fleck0 said:
Kinda bummed we didn't get any of this. Wouldn't have been out of place with the Twin-Snakes stuff Quiet could do.
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The real Ocelot that we know from the other games would've stepped up and showed off his skills when Quiet did the helicopter blade trick.

He's definitely the kind of guy that would try to steal the spotlight and take the opportunity to impress BB and Quiet in a situation like that.

It could turn out to be this whole small show-off segment between Quiet and Ocelot. I'd love to see that!
 
Drencrom said:
The real Ocelot that we know from the other games would've stepped up and showed off his skills when Quiet did the helicopter blade trick.

He's definitely the kind of guy that would try to steal the spotlight and take the opportunity to impress BB and Quiet in a situation like that.
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"Gunships, the enemy sniper, I dunno BAWWWSSSS". He probably spent most of the game daydreaming about shacking up again with the real Big Boss instead of having to advise this poser.
 
Sub_Level said:
Maybe that was his intention.

XPTyySm.jpg
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F2UIMxc.png


smh Kojima

When you boil it down, Big Boss' story is about a loss of humanity. Snake's is a story of convincing himself of his humanity. That's why his character development was so good in MGS1 and why he was a such a great character in MGS2 thanks to what he had learned.

Hell even his MGS4 depiction (which many people criticize for losing his spark from MGS2) was somewhat in-line with the overbearing cynicism he has from his aging syndrome. Snake is constantly at odds with what makes him human, but Big Boss really only had one thing that made him human which he lost after MGS3. Throughout a majority of the series, Solid has always been the one expressing most of the "true" emotions.
 
Unknown One said:
Yup, Kojima took a shit on Solid thanks to his fucking Hard on for Big Boss.
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Eh. Not really, real Big Boss isn't in this game much at all, really. You'll find with Kojima that he's always changing his mind on who his favourite is. He said Raiden was his favourite in the past as well. Just depends what mood you catch him in when you ask him that.
 
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