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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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Daaamn, and I thought the twist was one the best parts of the game. Really helped tie it all together, that "big boss" the man, the legend, is just a catalyst to unite people.

Oh well, I'm sure I'm just missing something?

Certainly wasn't perfect but felt comfortably bitter sweet.
 
Disagree. 4's ridiculousness was pure Metal Gear, and the gameplay was so varied. Agreeably, the game didnt force you to us most of the mechanics, but they were there.
Even as repetitive as mgsv can be in mission structure, I fail to see how mgs4 is varied in comparison. The sneaking in act 3 was such a failed attempt at switching the formula up with a tailing/noir mission. The entire act is basically just a means of getting to a major setpiece with big mama. Mgsv tailing mission is done a shit ton better. One thing mgs4 does better is bosses.
 
Even as repetitive as mgsv can be in mission structure, I fail to see how mgs4 is varied in comparison. The sneaking in act 3 was such a failed attempt at switching the formula up with a tailing/noir mission. The entire act is basically just a means of getting to a major setpiece with big mama. Mgsv tailing mission is done a shit ton better. One thing mgs4 does better is bosses.

for me, MGSV mission structure didn't really feel that repedative, probably because i just did my missions from the open world, rather than going back to the chopper each time. It just felt like I was blitzing through the missions until the next cutscene where I was forced to chopper back.
 
Absolutely.

MGSV is easily the worst of the numbered entries, by far.

My fan theory is that it's not a numbered entry in the series at all.

Kojima's grand plan with MGSV was to finally succeed at not making a Metal Gear Solid game. He has said that the V is not pronounced as a 5 because it stands for victory. It's also because this isn't a true entry in the series in any way.

-The Gameplay is almost totally different than previous entries
-There are no boss battles, something the series is known for
-The story goes through great lengths to accomplish nothing within the greater narrative, nothing you do within the game matters, you aren't Snake or Big Boss, none of the side characters are ever mentioned in any other entries, you barely learn anything new, Liquids origin is skipped over/thrown aside out of nowhere, Psycho Mantis has no new character development. Nothing that was teased really happens in the game.
-David Hayter is gone as are most of the previous MGS cast.
-No Codec and the tapes have nowhere near the same effect, almost none of the trademark silliness MGS is known for

I had to write this down somewhere. I know it's not real.
 
Even as repetitive as mgsv can be in mission structure, I fail to see how mgs4 is varied in comparison. The sneaking in act 3 was such a failed attempt at switching the formula up with a tailing/noir mission. The entire act is basically just a means of getting to a major setpiece with big mama. Mgsv tailing mission is done a shit ton better. One thing mgs4 does better is bosses.

It dissapoints me that 4 and 5 are like homages to 1 and 3 but part of that intention is stealing classic design choices and repeat them in a different context, ending with an obvious lesser version. Bosses in 4, and several scenes in 5 like the "pull the trigger" or "have a long ride with a song in the background"... they just didn't work.
 
Ōkami;179491187 said:
Starting from scratch doesn't reallly sound fun, replaying missions is.

I'd be better if I had Quiet, I already beat the game, fuck continuity, let me use Quiet.

Hell let me use Quiet on the battle against Quiet.
Yes. I was planning on replaying missions after I had a 100% completion, but losing Quiet killed my interest in replaying anything. And I'm not starting a new save file now that I finally have everything developed (I'm not going through that grind again) I hope they patch her back into the game or something.
 
At least 4 had a complete story and wrapped up any questions you had regardless if you liked what the answers were or how they were presented.

I've never seen it as a positive that it tried to wrap all the story up. It tangled itself into a ridiculous web of deceptions, half deceptions, crosses, double crosses and then, with the series at its knees, it introduces the idea that the Patriots were started by the goofy back-up team in MGS3. One of the worst things to happen in the MGS universe was turning Zero into some kind of antagonist towards Big Boss. We never see their story, we're just told about it after the fact. It's piss poor story telling and one of the reasons I could never buy into the Major as a villain. Show don't tell and don't forget to leave something for the imagination. I also think Kojima bottled the whole Sorrow-Ocelot-Liquid scenario and just opted for hypnosis and nanomachines.

The biggest problem with MGS4, and it's a problem that has clearly followed Kojima into MGSV, was how poorly designed and planned it was. MGS4, especially, is the most front loaded game in the series. By chapter five we're just walking in a straight line to get to the end. None of what made those early chapters so interesting has made it beyond the second chapter. I've never seen a game devolve quite so much as MGS4. It's not a bad game, but it's also sad that the best moments of it come so early on.
 
It dissapoints me that 4 and 5 are like homages to 1 and 3 but part of that intention is stealing classic design choices and repeat them in a different context, ending with an obvious lesser version. Bosses in 4, and several scenes in 5 like the "pull the trigger" or "have a long ride with a song in the background"... they just didn't work.
Yeah, I didn't like this either. I like both MGS4 and MGSV but they try to ride on the coattails of their predecessors a little too much. Ocelot's line-for-line recital of Big Boss's "that's a revolver technique" line made me cringe a little.
 
It dissapoints me that 4 and 5 are like homages to 1 and 3 but part of that intention is stealing classic design choices and repeat them in a different context, ending with an obvious lesser version. Bosses in 4, and several scenes in 5 like the "pull the trigger" or "have a long ride with a song in the background"... they just didn't work.

GOAT use of music in a Metal Gear game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3Z5UGE3g5M
 
What the hell man! I just watched "mission 51" on my DVD. That's such a huge shame that it was cut! I was so dissapointed that the game didn't wrap up the Eli stuff. Like he just takes Sahalenthschmauger and leaves and that's it? Wtf that's a pretty big deal!

And plus the fight would've been awesome too. Damn. I'm glad I saw it, but that really is a bummer that it's not in the main game. Would've made it feel more complete when it comes to tieing everything together, which was what I was looking forward the most in this game.

Also, lol at Psycho Mantis just ripping out the parisites. And the rest of the kids would still be fucked.
 
-There are no boss battles, something the series is known for

There are boss battles. You may choose to believe otherwise, but Quiet and Sahelanthropus are boss battles. Doesn't matter if you can exploit the former with supply drops.

-None of the side characters are ever mentioned in any other entries, you barely learn anything new

Considering we found out a lot about Huey and his family (especially in regards to Strangelove/Otacon), that's incorrect too.
 
This is my biggest thing too, like it was a cool opener, but playing a second time was stupid lol
You should have played as Big Boss in the Hospital Revisited episode with Big Faux as your buddy... And you had to command him to crawl/crouch/run/prone his way to safety with the LB/L1 button and R3.
 
You should have played as Big Boss in the Hospital Revisited episode with Big Faux as your buddy... And you had to command him to crawl/crouch/run/prone his way to safety with the LB/L1 button and R3.

This is what I thought was happening once I figured it out...but then it just made me play the entire first mission again.

Why
 
I've never seen it as a positive that it tried to wrap all the story up. It tangled itself into a ridiculous web of deceptions, half deceptions, crosses, double crosses and then, with the series at its knees, it introduces the idea that the Patriots were started by the goofy back-up team in MGS3. One of the worst things to happen in the MGS universe was turning Zero into some kind of antagonist towards Big Boss. We never see their story, we're just told about it after the fact. It's piss poor story telling and one of the reasons I could never buy into the Major as a villain. Show don't tell and don't forget to leave something for the imagination. I also think Kojima bottled the whole Sorrow-Ocelot-Liquid scenario and just opted for hypnosis and nanomachines.

The biggest problem with MGS4, and it's a problem that has clearly followed Kojima into MGSV, was how poorly designed and planned it was. MGS4, especially, is the most front loaded game in the series. By chapter five we're just walking in a straight line to get to the end. None of what made those early chapters so interesting has made it beyond the second chapter. I've never seen a game devolve quite so much as MGS4. It's not a bad game, but it's also sad that the best moments of it come so early on.

That was hinted since MGS3. It was that game that started it.
 
You should have played as Big Boss in the Hospital Revisited episode with Big Faux as your buddy... And you had to command him to crawl/crouch/run/prone his way to safety with the LB/L1 button and R3.

That's what I thought as well. You should have been playing as BB, if you crawl, he crawls, you stop and take cover, he does the same. Would have been better, still shit, but better.
 
I've never seen it as a positive that it tried to wrap all the story up. It tangled itself into a ridiculous web of deceptions, half deceptions, crosses, double crosses and then, with the series at its knees, it introduces the idea that the Patriots were started by the goofy back-up team in MGS3. One of the worst things to happen in the MGS universe was turning Zero into some kind of antagonist towards Big Boss. We never see their story, we're just told about it after the fact. It's piss poor story telling and one of the reasons I could never buy into the Major as a villain. Show don't tell and don't forget to leave something for the imagination. I also think Kojima bottled the whole Sorrow-Ocelot-Liquid scenario and just opted for hypnosis and nanomachines.

The biggest problem with MGS4, and it's a problem that has clearly followed Kojima into MGSV, was how poorly designed and planned it was. MGS4, especially, is the most front loaded game in the series. By chapter five we're just walking in a straight line to get to the end. None of what made those early chapters so interesting has made it beyond the second chapter. I've never seen a game devolve quite so much as MGS4. It's not a bad game, but it's also sad that the best moments of it come so early on.
Yup. When I got to that part in MGS4 is when I realized Kojima had completely lost it. Since then I've come to consider MGS2 as the true end of the franchise (with MGS3 being a nice bonus prequel) and MGS4 (and everything that came after) as just really bad fanfiction.
 
That was hinted since MGS3. It was that game that started it.
That was all 4. 3 hinted at things like Sigint Being the darpa chief, but that wasn't confirmed. Even then you'd have no reason to believe that the darpa chief was a founding member of the Patriots a long with the rest of snakes intel team.
 
what else did you want in the game that would have "completed" the story in mgs5 and what questions?

Well my questions are being things such as why they didn't wake Venom up years ago since he would keep the legend alive while Big Boss was in a coma, how Solid Snake never recognized Venom as not the real big boss. I wanted to see the actual starting of the formation of outer heaven, i wanted to see Big Boss become a villain on screen, and I wanted Eli's story to be fleshed out more. (Remember in MGS1 how he said Big Boss told him he was the inferior one all the time.) He doesn't even meet the real Big Boss in this game. Those are just some of the things I would I have liked to see.

As it is now, it's pretty clear that 46 wasn't supposed to be the final mission and chapter 2 is nearly non existent . So we're pretty much missing 2 chapters worth of story. (Chapter 2 is called race yet it has nothing to do with it for example) Maybe this twist could have worked if the entire story was there but as it is now, it's a mess.
 
It's been sometime since I've played MGS3, but I don't think it was hinted at all in that game that Big Boss and his team would create The Patriots.

You're right, it wasnt.

Yup, definitely wasn't. Was very surprised when they announce Zero as the big bad in MGS4's third act, and not in a good way.

Zero's involvement was first 'hinted' at in Portable Ops, though.

Bah nobody played Portable Ops.
 
In a way isn't the whole swap showing the real BB as a demon ? He makes one of his best friends and allies throw away his life to let him run free. He smirks about it. Him doing that to a friend is far more sinister than anything he can do to a foe.
 
Well my questions are being things such as why they didn't wake Venom up years ago since he would keep the legend alive while Big Boss was in a coma, how Solid Snake never recognized Venom as not the real big boss. I wanted to see the actual starting of the formation of outer heaven, i wanted to see Big Boss become a villain on screen, and I wanted Eli's story to be fleshed out more. (Remember in MGS1 how he said Big Boss told him he was the inferior one all the time.) He doesn't even meet the real Big Boss in this game. Those are just some of the things I would I have liked to see.

As it is now, it's pretty clear that 46 wasn't supposed to be the final mission and chapter 2 is nearly non existent . So we're pretty much missing 2 chapters worth of story. (Chapter 2 is called race yet it has nothing to do with it for example) Maybe this twist could have worked if the entire story was there but as it is now, it's a mess.

It's a shame because Kojima dragged his heels on turning Big Boss into the villain, perhaps because he'd grown so attached to him, that he could no longer relate this fully fleshed out character to the one in those early MSX games. Still, MGSV really should have been the game to tie up the threads from MGS1; Liquid's deep resentment of his father, his early interactions with Solid Snake and his interactions with Sniper Wolf etc. It would have been a cool way to tie up the universe and lead into MG1. For whatever reason, Kojima didn't want to make that game and what we got was interesting, as I do like the idea of Big Boss as a figurehead rather than a real person, I just felt the twist didn't go anywhere but explain how Big Boss survived MG1; which was already explained, but Kojima has a history of re-explaining plot points again and again.
 
In a way isn't the whole swap showing the real BB as a demon ? He makes one of his best friends and allies throw away his life to let him run free. He smirks about it. Him doing that to a friend is far more sinister than anything he can do to a foe.

Was it not Venom/Faux Boss that was smirking about it? To say that he/the player enjoys being BB? You're right though, I liked the potential of the twist revealing that the real BB has been nefariously pulling strings in the background the whole time, they just didn't do enough with it.
 
I've never seen it as a positive that it tried to wrap all the story up. It tangled itself into a ridiculous web of deceptions, half deceptions, crosses, double crosses and then, with the series at its knees, it introduces the idea that the Patriots were started by the goofy back-up team in MGS3. One of the worst things to happen in the MGS universe was turning Zero into some kind of antagonist towards Big Boss. We never see their story, we're just told about it after the fact. It's piss poor story telling and one of the reasons I could never buy into the Major as a villain.

From what I recall around that time, Ryan Payton proposed the retcon idea to Kojima for the MGS3 codec squad being the Patriots during MGS4's development, and Kojima thought it was clever and rolled with it.
 
The true ending of MGSV kinda shit cans the idea that Zero was some super evil guy though, which I honestly like. He's no more a bad guy than Big Boss is at this point.

I don't have a problem with that as much as I do that they also kind of walk back the Big Boss/Zero schism.

That part is kind of key to making MGS4's ending make sense.
 
Agh... Kojima isn't Myomoto. He's a good designer with excellent marketing ideas. All his trailers were stellar. He needed a good team behind him after MGS 3.
Both MGS 4 and MGS V would have been better games if he was reeled in a bit and planned things efficiently.
 
Zero's involvement was first 'hinted' at in Portable Ops, though.

Yes, I remember that. My first thought was "what, that goofy James Bond loving major is some kind of villainous mastermind?" After that, Kojima spent far too much time watching the Star Wars prequels and modelling his universe on the Star Wars model; everybody knows everyone and they're all somehow connected. It's pretty reductive and unnecessary. Not everything has to be connected.
 
Well I just finished 46 so I can finally listen to all of the spoiler casts and everything.

Also.

WHY. WHAT.
Speaking of 46, with the game's camera all jittery and shit, I thought that last shot of BB on the bike was probably one of the few cutscenes/moments done well enough in the game. It looked the cleanest in terms of production.
 
Even as repetitive as mgsv can be in mission structure, I fail to see how mgs4 is varied in comparison. The sneaking in act 3 was such a failed attempt at switching the formula up with a tailing/noir mission. The entire act is basically just a means of getting to a major setpiece with big mama. Mgsv tailing mission is done a shit ton better. One thing mgs4 does better is bosses.

MGS4's gameplay bits felt more varied. Normal stealth infiltration to bike chases, to tank chases, to tailing missions to boss fights, some awesome split screen sequences and then back to infiltration etc.. MGSV has the same missions stretched out for hours together.

With MGS4 I was always expecting something unpredictable. The first few hours of MGSV basically covers every mission type in the game
 
From what I recall around that time, Ryan Payton proposed the retcon idea to Kojima for the MGS3 codec squad being the Patriots during MGS4's development, and Kojima thought it was clever and rolled with it.

He's had two games, post MGS4, to make that work. To not have any meaningful interactions between Zero and Big Boss, prior to him wheeling Zero out to a graveyard and unplugging him in front of his confused and bewildered son, is something of a problem. I can only imagine that scene is even more ridiculous now after the events of MGSV.
 
From what I recall around that time, Ryan Payton proposed the retcon idea to Kojima for the MGS3 codec squad being the Patriots during MGS4's development, and Kojima thought it was clever and rolled with it.
Instances like this or his pandering to the lowest common demonitator in his fan base make me wonder why some consider him an auteur.
 
Instances like this or his pandering to the lowest common demonitator in his fan base make me wonder why some consider him an auteur.
The man is an auteur. His attention to detail and unique game design ideas are something special that he has. He also works uniquely within the premise of playing a video game, taking full advantage of the player's agency in granting them an interactive experience. He's also equally prone to making terrible design decisions and not realizing what his fans want from him. MGS4 was the ultimate fanservice game and it upset like half of the people asking for a continuation of MGS2.

He's like a yin yang
 
My fan theory is that it's not a numbered entry in the series at all.

Kojima's grand plan with MGSV was to finally succeed at not making a Metal Gear Solid game. He has said that the V is not pronounced as a 5 because it stands for victory. It's also because this isn't a true entry in the series in any way.

-The Gameplay is almost totally different than previous entries
-There are no boss battles, something the series is known for
-The story goes through great lengths to accomplish nothing within the greater narrative, nothing you do within the game matters, you aren't Snake or Big Boss, none of the side characters are ever mentioned in any other entries, you barely learn anything new, Liquids origin is skipped over/thrown aside out of nowhere, Psycho Mantis has no new character development. Nothing that was teased really happens in the game.
-David Hayter is gone as are most of the previous MGS cast.
-No Codec and the tapes have nowhere near the same effect, almost none of the trademark silliness MGS is known for

I had to write this down somewhere. I know it's not real.

So true. This is barely a MGS game at all other than characters really when you really look deep down at it.
 
Gotta say, I hate how you practically have to develop things in this game. The confusing interface doesn't help in that regard.

You could ignore the whole thing I suppose, ignore your teams, and that was what was more or less promised to us.

But then you end up with a very basic stealth game that has none of that trademark goofy MGS stealth in it. Not to mention some of the latter missions practically demand stronger weapons.

People keep saying how the game is jammed full of content, but it's really not. It's jammed full of potential content that you have to do a lot of pointless fapping about to get.
 
My fan theory is that it's not a numbered entry in the series at all.

Kojima's grand plan with MGSV was to finally succeed at not making a Metal Gear Solid game. He has said that the V is not pronounced as a 5 because it stands for victory. It's also because this isn't a true entry in the series in any way.

-The Gameplay is almost totally different than previous entries
-There are no boss battles, something the series is known for
-The story goes through great lengths to accomplish nothing within the greater narrative, nothing you do within the game matters, you aren't Snake or Big Boss, none of the side characters are ever mentioned in any other entries, you barely learn anything new, Liquids origin is skipped over/thrown aside out of nowhere, Psycho Mantis has no new character development. Nothing that was teased really happens in the game.
-David Hayter is gone as are most of the previous MGS cast.
-No Codec and the tapes have nowhere near the same effect, almost none of the trademark silliness MGS is known for

I had to write this down somewhere. I know it's not real.

This game is, very much, based off Peace Walker.

The gameplay is an evolution of Peace Walker, which was an evolution of 4 and Peace Walker's battles were all against mechs and tanks. The cassette tapes are the big giveaway, Peace Walker's entire narrative was basically cassettes.

To further expand on the core gameplay, the entire concept of base building, resources, soldiers, mission structure, the split of main and side ops, it's all Peace Walker. There's not a single mechanic there that isn't more or less wholesale PW, but with an open world.

And therin lies the problem. Peace Walker is one of the most divisive games in the series, more so than 4 ever was. A lot of the mechanics were given a pass due to the portable nature, but that's obviously been the end goal for the series in terms of structure.
 
For a legendary solider, you think Snake would be able to survive a higher fall without dying.

That's the biggest proof of all you don't play as Big Boss.

He would never die from a fall like that.
 
The man is an auteur. His attention to detail and unique game design ideas are something special that he has. He also works uniquely within the premise of playing a video game, taking full advantage of the player's agency in granting them an interactive experience. He's also equally prone to making terrible design decisions and not realizing what his fans want from him. MGS4 was the ultimate fanservice game and it upset like half of the people asking for a continuation of MGS2.

He's like a yin yang
I think kojima is missing the writing portion to be considered an auteur. He has people help him write, and the end result often is a disjointed mess because of clashing styles, taking input from others and pandering to cosplayers. He's a brilliant game designer but he bends to much to the whim of fans and those around him for me to consider him an auteur.
 
Gotta say, everything involving Quiet in MGS is just terrible--even ignoring the 'shame' stuff, she poisons everything she touches. Not even Snake could resist it, getting poisoned because he saw through his blind spot and defended himself with the wrong arm. I don't even think she has a circulatory system, how could a snake bite even hurt her? C'mon, Boss!
In the mission A Quiet Exit, I get one shot everytime when I pop up after a certain point during the tank battle. No idea why, where. Tank ? Sniper ? Specific one ? They keep saying to fight not to run, not sure what trigger to avoid

That mission is badly designed and counter to everything else in the game. The thing is, in the final phase of the battle there are two tanks, with one arriving before and one after the helicopter, that are essentially super tanks. These two super tanks have super-cannons that one-shot Snake from any angle; further, their cannons are the only weapons (I know of) capable of piercing cover or obstacles like walls. This means that it's impossible to take cover from them as you fight--you have to let Quiet grab their attention as you sit far away, hidden, or else risk an instant game over when they get a decent shot off. It took me forever to get through that mission.

In retrospect, an easy answer is to just call in airstrikes, I'd assume they work well.

My solution was a lot of fultoning, with a weather change (sandstorm) when the tanks arrived so I could fulton those as well--unfortunately, too much trial and error was involved for me to recommend this strategy to anyone else.

If you decide to follow my stratagy:
  1. Fulton the missle thing that arrives in the middle of the battlefield. Just rush towards it from the checkpoint and it won't be able to do much. Be sure to shoot the soldier running up from the left, because he'll bother you during the next step otherwise. The shielded soldier that arrives after him is of no concern.
  2. Go towards the right of the battlefield and prepare to fulton the guntank arriving on that side; when it stops to deploy troops is your chance to strike.
  3. Rush to the left side of the battlefield and throw a grenade behind the guntank, where it has deployed troops. Fulton it.
  4. Now take a breather--rush behind the building because the first super tank will be arriving. If it hits you even once, you're dead.
  5. Call in a sandstorm while Quiet draws their fire. Once the sandstorm arrives, and not before, approach the super tank (the only 'Tank' on the battlefield) from the far right of the battlefield. Check to see where its cannon is aiming--if it's at you, hide; if it's at Quiet, run behind the tank and then straight at it. Note that if an enemy sees you while you're doing this the super tank will be alerted to your presence and it will be over--their machine guns will cut you down before you can get close enough.
  6. Quickly fulton the super tank from behind and then go back the way you came. Done correctly, veiled by the sandstorm, the enemy won't be aware of you at all.
  7. A helicopter will arrive, signalling the final stretch of the battle. A super tank and two guntanks won't be far behind it, so stay covered and out of sight. Wait for the helicopter to get in range and begin patrolling between the left and right of the battlefield, then attack it with missle weapons.
  8. Once the helicopter starts to retreat or is destroyed, hide and call in a second sandstorm if necessary. (I had one occur naturally after this, so I never needed to.)
  9. By now the second super tank and a pair of guntanks will have arrived. They'll be attacking Quiet. Approach the super tank the same as before, and then the rest is up to you. The two guntanks and the remaining infantry will be a piece of cake with the super tanks out of the way.

Now some info to make the fight easier:
  • Electro-mines can useful. Deploy them on the left and right roads, close to the building, to make fultoning the vehicles easier.
  • Guntanks. They have a minimum range--they're completely defenseless once you're closer than five meters. With a speed upgrade, Snake can also outrun them, which makes getting beside them trivial. Lastly, these guntanks deploy 3 soldiers each and no more.
  • The Quiet situation. Quiet will likely take damage before she decides to move. The super tanks are the real threat, though any vehicle can harm her. While Quiet is more than capable of taking out a lone tank or two on her own, she won't last long if left to her own devices--three or four super tank hits will kill her and immediately end the mission. So draw fire if you need to.
  • Long-barreled God-tanks. Super tanks have deadly accurate machineguns with no minimum range, and unparalleled power in their cannons. Your rocket launcher will do minimal harm so forget conventional weaponry. Worst of all, as mentioned before, thier cannon pierces all kinds of cover. You will not be able to avoid their attacks for long, so never bother risking it.
  • NVG are your friend. Be sure to tag the super tanks so you know exactly where they are. And note that all of the armoured vehicles have very obvious tells as to who they're targetting, so just glance at their weapons to see who has aggro.
All from memory... I hope the hours I spent completing the mission were worth it to someone, because it sure didn't help me.
 
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