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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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Maybe it's just me but if I saw that the President of the US looked like me my first instinct isn't going to be "OMG da Patriots cloned me!"

Grooming, on camera presence, make up and even hair style can greatly differentiate two similar looking people.

Yeah it's a stretch that Snake couldn't recognize him but that's less suspension of disbelief than 99% of the stuff in the series. Like people having tech in the 60s that we don't even have in present time.
 
Dahbomb said:
Maybe it's just me but if I saw that the President of the US looked like me my first instinct isn't going to be "OMG da Patriots cloned me!"

Grooming, on camera presence, make up amd even hair style can greatly differentiate two similar looking people.

Yeah it's a stretch that Snake couldn't recognize him but that's less suspension of disbelief than 99% of the stuff in the series. Like people having tech in the 60s that we don't even have in present time.
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They don't just look similar. They look identical.

It's literally like seeing yourself on TV. You're going to recognize you.

It is right to look passed it however, since it really doesn't matter for the plot.
 
I'm in the camp that nobody in their right mind would consider him a clone. Even with his identical base appearance he wore his hair different, didn't smoke, didn't have a grizzly Che Guevara beard, and had different mannerisms. He also looked much older than Solid and Liquid. Even if he were 100% identical it would still be a creepy coincidence, like Tina Fey and Sarah Palin, lol.

Solidus is actually the least Big Boss like of all the clones, at least personality wise, which is pretty funny considering he's literally him raised in a different environment. I don't see Solidus cracking jokes or hiding in boxes.
 
Gorillaz said:
rewatch the final cutscene when he breaks the mirror you see the outer heaven logo on the door in the background

edit: also I assume at this point that Boss believed Venom would have killed Solid? Or did he want Solid to get rid of him. Or hoping you would wipe each other out
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Aha, there it is! It just flashes by for a second.
 
SolVanderlyn said:
Solidus is actually the least Big Boss like of all the clones, at least personality wise, which is pretty funny considering he's literally him raised in a different environment. I don't see Solidus cracking jokes or hiding in boxes.
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He really got the shaft plot wise.

If we really had to pull a "not Big Boss," it would have been far better served to play as Solidus. We know Solidus hated living in the shadow of Big Boss, and we know he's very much an ends justify the means guy. He'd be perfect for a Big Boss look alike going off the rails in pursuit of revenge.
 
I started the Quiet side op

One of the moments where Quiet is awesome, is immediately followed by a dog shit tier mission. The amount of times I've been magically one shotted in this damn mission. Fuck this shit.
 
Reebot said:
They don't just look similar. They look identical.

It's literally like seeing yourself on TV. You're going to recognize you.

It is right to look passed it however, since it really doesn't matter for the plot.
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MGS4 proved Big Boss(and thus Solidius) is not 100 percent identical to Solid and Liquid, end of story there.

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No normal rational person is gonna look at these 3 men and think, hey they must be clones!

Solid is not gonna see well groomed Solidus on tv and think him looking like Big Boss isn't anything more than a crazy ass coincidence.(up until he learns about clones, then he might double back and think something's going on)
 
Reebot said:
He really got the shaft plot wise.

If we really had to pull a "not Big Boss," it would have been far better served to play as Solidus. We know Solidus hated living in the shadow of Big Boss, and we know he's very much an ends justify the means guy. He'd be perfect for a Big Boss look alike going off the rails in pursuit of revenge.
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Though he'd have been 12 (possibly younger) in 1984. You'd really have to stretch his accelerated aging for that to work.

I wouldn't have been opposed to Venom being Solidus, though - along with how well it'd work alongside his personality, motivations and goals in MGS2; it'd make sense for someone created to be an identical duplicate of Big Boss from the beginning to have false memories and experiences based on his. Creating a Big Boss imposter would be much less difficult to swallow narratively if it were portrayed as the result of indoctrination and training Solidus had been subjected to from birth, as opposed to a 48-hour round of hypnotism.
 
Ishida said:
Huh.... It seems you don't know much about MGS4. Big Boss' files, including his identity and his skills were declassified after MGS2. This means that CQC became widespread among soldiers throughout the world (Hence Meryl recognizing it when Old Snake put Johnny on a chokehold). In MGS4, pretty much all soldiers in the battlefield know who Big Boss is and how he looked like.
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ok well this only reinforces the point I was making earlier...if his files were only declassified after mgs2 then there was no '2 public big bosses running around' between v and mg1, like reboot was saying.......anyway. I'm definitely done now.
 
Is it possible to have such a large amount of good points that even if I build a bomb I won't get the demon horn and blood face? Or does the demon point subtraction stuff only start counting after you've built a bomb?
 
Golnei said:
Though he'd have been 12 in 1984. You'd really have to stretch his accelerated aging for that to work.

I wouldn't have been opposed to Venom being Solidus, though - along with how well it'd work alongside his personality, motivations and goals in MGS2; it'd make sense for someone created to be an identical duplicate of Big Boss from the beginning to have false memories and experiences based on his. Creating a Big Boss imposter would be much less difficult to swallow narratively if it were portrayed as the result of indoctrination and training Solidus had been subjected to from birth, as opposed to a 48-hour round of hypnotism.
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Well honestly I wouldn't set the game in 1984. Nothing really important about that year except the book reference. But yeah it would be a stretch unless we adjust the setting, I'm proposing a pretty radical re-write while still constrained by the "not Big Boss" twist.

The Silver said:
MGS4 proved Big Boss(and thus Solidius) is not 100 percent identical to Solid and Liquid, end of story there.
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Actually, no. At best, the difference between screens, concept art, and characters are oversights on the development team' part. Canonically, Solidus is identical to Big Boss. This is said repeatedly in-game and plays a major role in both MGS 2 and MGS 4. And we know from just looking at the models that a young Big Boss is borderline identical to a young Snake.
 
The Silver said:
MGS4 proved Big Boss(and thus Solidius) is not 100 percent identical to Solid and Liquid, end of story there.

[

No normal rational person is gonna look at these 3 men and think, hey they must be clones!

Solid is not gonna see well groomed Solidus on tv and think him looking like Big Boss isn't anything more than a crazy ass coincidence.(up until he learns about clones, then he might double back and think something's going on)
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Man, you're really cherry picking those images. For instance, the MGS4 Big Boss you posted is actually Solidus grafted on to Big Boss. If it wasn't though, he'd still probably look the same, because again, and I don't know how this hasn't gotten through yet, unlike Liquid and Solid, Solidus is a 100% identical genetic clone of Big Boss, this makes Big Boss and Solidus more similar than monozygotic twins.

The young Solid Snake face you posted is face camo, and the Solidus picture is Shinkawa artwork, which can make the characters look completely different than how they're portrayed in game. Maybe you should switch that out for Solidus' MGS2 model. Or wait, don't, because that would really hurt your case.
 
Reebot said:
Well honestly I wouldn't set the game in 1984. Nothing really important about that year except the book reference. But yeah it would be a stretch unless we adjust the setting, I'm proposing a pretty radical re-write while still constrained by the "not Big Boss" twist.



Actually, no. At best, the difference between screens, concept art, and characters are oversights on the development team' part. Canonically, Solidus is identical to Big Boss. This is said repeatedly in-game and plays a major role in both MGS 2 and MGS 4. And we know from just looking at the models that a young Big Boss is borderline identical to a young Snake.
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So all the models and art that makes them look different are all oversights but the other models making them look really similar are all true? Come on son, can't have your cake and eat it too. Especially since the ones making them look different are the most recent ones. And hell they likely did look damn near identical when they were both young, that's irrelevant to what we're discussing with older BB and Solidus.

I don't know where you got me saying Solidus isn't identical to BB. I said he was and that's why he isn't identical to Solid.(since BB isn't identical to Solid in MGS4)

And MGS2 Solid and Solidus models being the same, LOOK HOW DIFFERENT THEY STILL LOOK, you have to literally mash them together side by side for people to see it.
The entire and only point I'm making is that Solid would not see the president on tv and think him looking like the man he already killed is anything more than a weird coincidence, that's it.
 
Had no idea people - actually - really liked Solidus.

I've pretty much always thought he was a hack, and by far the least interesting brother.
 
The Silver said:
So all the models and art that makes them look different are all oversights but the other models making them look really similar are all true? Come on son, can't have your cake and eat it too. Especially since the ones making them look different are the most recent ones. And hell they likely did look damn near identical when they were both young, that's irrelevant to what we're discussing with older BB and Solidus.

I don't know where you got me saying Solidus isn't identical to BB. I said he was and that's why he isn't identical to Solid.(since BB isn't identical to Solid in MGS4)

And MGS2 Solid and Solidus models being the same, LOOK HOW DIFFERENT THEY STILL LOOK, you have to literally mash them together side by side for people to see it.
The entire and only point I'm making is that Solid would not see the president on tv and think him looking like the man he already killed is anything more than a weird coincidence, that's it.
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Its like watching a fish flail around gasping for air.
 
Prototype said:
Had no idea people - actually - really liked Solidus.

I've pretty much always thought he was a hack, and by far the least interesting brother.
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I think it's just that he's the least explored of the 3 clones, there is still a lot of mystery about Solidus that isn't really explained, people just want to know more about him like the dude was the president of the United States for christ sake, that's pretty interesting to me.
 
Prototype said:
Had no idea people - actually - really liked Solidus.

I've pretty much always thought he was a hack, and by far the least interesting brother.
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I'd like to see him in MGR2 but that's about it. It had to be intentional on some level (Solidus? Come on) but he's cemented forever as the dumber knock off version, much like everyone in MGS2.
 
I want to fucking cry, man. I'm only on mission 15 and while looking up something unrelated (or so I thought) on the MGS Wiki I had the big twist spoiled for me. For those curious, I looked up the Boss AI page on the wiki that did it.

I hate my life...

How fucked am I? I assume that is the biggest fucking twist of all twists and there probably isn't much else to the story to surprise me eh?
 
Reebot said:
You really do remember less of the games than I thought.
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that isn't any kind of answer to my question. it's actually kind of just avoiding it altogether. the statement I just made is fact. there are other clues....ocelot and others comment in mgs1 that snake look like the spitting image of boss....i'm just wondering why they dont look alike in that last scene in 4, that's all.
 
Kevin Shields said:
Listening to everyone talk about clones and presidents and doppelgängers reminds how stupid this series is... It's hilarious and great
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In the 80's there's 3 Big Bosses running around Africa and surrounding regions.

Big Boss: Outer Heaven, meeting Gray Fox, Naomi, Sniper Wolf, Vulcan Raven, etc.

Venom: all of MGSV + whatever he does after.

Solidus: all the stuff with Raiden.

Amazing how they never bumped into each other, ot that nobody ever said, "wait, I thought he had a horn and a robot arm?"
 
ZeroMaverick said:
Old Solid looks nothing like Big Boss in MGS4 because of his accelerated aging, right?
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Well he's not 100% identical, just mostly.

Perhaps it's accelerated aging as well since Solid looked older than Big Boss, which made no sense. Big Boss is probably using Solidus's skin, who is modified to age even faster than Solid.
 
Unknown One said:
Well he's not 100% identical, just mostly.

Perhaps it's accelerated aging as well since Solid looked older than Big Boss, which made no sense. Big Boss is probably using Solidus's skin, who is modified to age even faster than Solid.
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I always forget this tidbit of info. Big Boss has to be "reassembled" essentially, right?
 
Gorillaz said:
edit: also I assume at this point that Boss believed Venom would have killed Solid? Or did he want Solid to get rid of him. Or hoping you would wipe each other out
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I would assume that it lines up with MG 1's original story. BB intended to send an inexperienced rookie into the Outer Heaven Fortress (Solid Snake) and to get killed in the process. However Snake surpassed all expectations and uncovered that Big Boss (Venom Snake) was responsible for the Outer Heaven uprising and Killed Venom in the process. It basically still lines up with the original MG 1 story.

That is my guess in my opinion anyhow. I do not think BB intended to get venom killed by any means, it just happened.

Edit: I would take it one step further and add that in my opinion, thanks to the info in this game and ocelot keeping tabs on the clones of BB, Big Boss knew that SS was his son/clone. He would send him in to get killed, but that failed. once again my opinion.
 
brau said:
he's gonna have a field day with Quiet then.
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He's (thankfully) been questioning her stupid design as well and how out of place she seems. His comments towards female characters are also not meant to be taken seriously, he makes fun of stupid things, like having the option to stare at Eva's breasts or the faux sex scene. Part of the metal gear fanbase's reaction to his videos, (note:they made a fucking cult in the name of Kojima called the Kojima World Order and have been harassing him for years with multiple twitter and youtube accounts with the name of metal gear characters), is straight up embarrassing. Like holy shit it's a let's play.
 
Reebot said:
Wow congratulations. You figured it out.

If I thought for a moment you were asking in good faith I'd answer.

But since you're not I won't.
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I am though. I was just following the conversation and want to see it resolved. I'm not trolling or whatever. I follow that Jack, David and solidus all look alike according to the lore and in game conversations. I've always just been curious as to why, when big boss appears at the end of mgs4, he looks and sounds nothing like David or 'George' I actually thought his voice actor in 4 was terrible too, although many people seemed to love Doyle and want him to return. I'm not suggesting I'm some all knowing metal gear source or something.
 
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