Punished_Snake
Member
Everyday I hear new stupid things about MGS V. Minute to minute gameplay in MGS V is boring? Why we are doing missions,extracting soldiers and other things? I couldn't complete the video because it's garbage.
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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Everyday I hear new stupid things about MGS V. Minute to minute gameplay in MGS V is boring? Why we are doing missions,extracting soldiers and other things? I couldn't complete the video because it's garbage.
Lostconfused
Member
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
wait
I just thought of something
So SS is sent by Big Boss in MG1 to do some dirt. But according to TPP, he kills Venom.
So, like, is it Venom Snake that sends SS off to start MG1 who then gets killed by SS or is it BB who sends SS into MG1 and then Venom Snake is killed?
I guess it's VS but that would be interesting if it was BB who started that whole mess
I just thought of something
So SS is sent by Big Boss in MG1 to do some dirt. But according to TPP, he kills Venom.
So, like, is it Venom Snake that sends SS off to start MG1 who then gets killed by SS or is it BB who sends SS into MG1 and then Venom Snake is killed?
I guess it's VS but that would be interesting if it was BB who started that whole mess
Inferno313
Banned
You feel it too, don't you?
Dick Justice
Banned
At least "that shit" actually produces entertaining moments, rather than the Diet Miller routine he does in this game.
I sure do, I've never felt this kind of pain before. This phantom pain, it's completely new to me. I think I finally realize how Lost fans felt.
The popular theory I see is that both V.Snake and Big Boss were working together the entire time. Big Boss would send rookies to their death by throwing them at Outer Heaven, possibly to show he had nothing to do with it and maybe a bit of misdirection while building his own military nation at the same time, the problem was Solid Snake didn't die.
KOMANI
KOMANI
People are confusing Ocelot not needing to prove himself to snake to not having any personality at all. None, nill, null, zilch, zero.
They rebooted the character, it's plain and simple. The people at Kojima productions wanted Troy Baker to reprise his role as Joel, just with no personality. No one is asking for Ocelit to twirl 80 guns in the air, or meow like a cat, we're just asking for some consistency to the past (and future) iterations to the character.
They rebooted the character, it's plain and simple. The people at Kojima productions wanted Troy Baker to reprise his role as Joel, just with no personality. No one is asking for Ocelit to twirl 80 guns in the air, or meow like a cat, we're just asking for some consistency to the past (and future) iterations to the character.
I read all your arguments and justifications but I just don't agree with them. Nothing in either games points to him that he's a "balanced and normal" individual. I get what you're trying to say with him "maturing" in MGSV and stuff, but I just can't see it.
And even so, it wasn't a very fun, interesting or very poignant characterization change imo. The guy is as flamboyant and crazy as ever in MGS1 and that was before the guy started going into the deep end with the Liquid controlling him in MGS2 and hypnosis in MGS4.
So summary-wise: even if his boring, normal personality change is explained /"makes sense" or not, it wasn't good or interesting in the end. Just a waste of a great character with such a unique and showman-like personality. Especially when it's exactly what the game needed, with everyone else being quiet, serious and angry all the time.
At least "that shit" actually produces entertaining moments, rather than the Diet Miller routine he does in this game.
Exactly, they guy is always entertaining and fucking hilarious otherwise, whether he's himself (MGS1, 3 and the end of 4) or Liquid / Hypnosis (MGS2 and 4).
So MGSV is the last time we ever see 'sincere' Ocelot.
From MGS1, he is just a spy. A double act. He is trying to get 'in' with Liquid and the bad guys. He's just a spy getting on board with them. His ultimate goal is to destroy the Patriots, but (for whatever reason/no reason) he can't just do it himself. So he enables Snake to do it by... Being a boss and moving up the ranks of the 'bad guys', allowing Snake to get closer and closer to the truth. He never wanted to kill Snake - he always wanted Snake to beat him - he just drew Snake further and further into the fold. I think he knew Snake was always the GOAT soldier and the only one who could do it.
Jesus christ.
I cannot disagree. I still liked him – just like I enjoyed everything in MGSV except Quiet's body – but it does feel like Kojima phoned it in big time.
I would like him to meow like a cat
He's such a goofball in MGS3 and then he's a super goofball in MGS1 too except he loses an arm. But in V he's just flat... where's the Adamska who jumped onto a jet just to play Russian Roulette with Snake and then fall out the side for laughs?
He's such a goofball in MGS3 and then he's a super goofball in MGS1 too except he loses an arm. But in V he's just flat... where's the Adamska who jumped onto a jet just to play Russian Roulette with Snake and then fall out the side for laughs?
Storm Raider
Banned
I really want to believe.
BjornTheBear
Banned
Sorry
greycolumbus
The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
Fucking weird, man.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Don't , " did you listen to the tapes" me. I've 100% the game.
Things get retconned all the time in Metal Gear, especially character motivations, but this time they retconned a whole character's personality, and any evidence found WITHIN the game can't be taken serious because it's only there to justify the dumb decisions they made.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
orthodoxy1095
Banned
It's interesting to see so many critical videos beginning to pop up.
On this very page we've agreed that they did not retcon his character at all and that it makes perfect sense in the timeline.
It's turned him into a boring shit with little/no personality, but it's not a retcon in any way. (Edit: and I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, either. It just is what it is.)
Also I don't think it's out of order to say 'did you listen to the tapes' when you said something in direct contradiction to what a tape said.
Lostconfused
Member
Dick Justice
Banned
Yeahhhh, the torture scene in MGS1 says otherwise.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Thank you
Yeah this is well put together.
Self-hypnosis yadda yadda
He's a spy acting a bad guy yadda yadda
The tape in MGSV, arguably his only true self, says exactly what I said above yadda yadda
Yeah, I'm done.
Mr. Smiley
Member
Is Rocket Peace in this game?
I want to fire Rocket Peace.
I want to fire Rocket Peace.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Another thought i had that wasn't original at all and surely has been mentioned a thousand times.
Regarding the game's structure and who you play as throughout MGSV: The game is literally a rehash of MGS2 in regards to who you are playing as and when.
If you consider that Kojima has said repeatedly that Ground Zeroes is equivalent to the Tanker mission in MGS2, he pretty much pulled the same stunt now as then as the only time you actually play as Big Boss is in Ground Zeroes and you play the entirety of TPP as Venom Snake.
Even the twist of who you play as is a rehash lol
Regarding the game's structure and who you play as throughout MGSV: The game is literally a rehash of MGS2 in regards to who you are playing as and when.
If you consider that Kojima has said repeatedly that Ground Zeroes is equivalent to the Tanker mission in MGS2, he pretty much pulled the same stunt now as then as the only time you actually play as Big Boss is in Ground Zeroes and you play the entirety of TPP as Venom Snake.
Even the twist of who you play as is a rehash lol
Storm Raider
Banned
Boss, that's a serious injury.
Playing the main missions again is helping to wash the 'samey' dull feel of the side ops away. They are a hell of a lot more fun, and going for the optional objectives makes them well worth replaying. Getting all objectives and an S-rank on Chapter 30 on the first attempt felt awesome. Just makes me think that the 50 proper missions had more than enough gameplay to support the game, so why they included those rubbish 150 side ops I'll never know.
But going back to the missions once you know the entire plot of the game what's really striking is just how unimportant to the main game so many of them are. 'Extract the guy who makes Snake's fake arm.' Okay. 'Kill this random Spetsnaz commander.' Seems like a side op, but sure. 'Extract this traitor.' Geez... 'Destroy 4 walker gears.' Wait... are you kidding me?
Why? Why not have an actual story beat in these missions? The ones that do (mission 6, mission 12, missions 28-31 off the top of my head) are so superior to the rest of the game that it's insane. Why wasn't every mission like that? Or at the very least every second mission?
The story might still have been rubbish, but at least it would have been well paced and engaging rubbish.
Also, can anyone tell me what the last deployment mission name is? Failing these S rank deployments and losing all my S-rank soldiers and walker gears is driving me crazy.
But going back to the missions once you know the entire plot of the game what's really striking is just how unimportant to the main game so many of them are. 'Extract the guy who makes Snake's fake arm.' Okay. 'Kill this random Spetsnaz commander.' Seems like a side op, but sure. 'Extract this traitor.' Geez... 'Destroy 4 walker gears.' Wait... are you kidding me?
Why? Why not have an actual story beat in these missions? The ones that do (mission 6, mission 12, missions 28-31 off the top of my head) are so superior to the rest of the game that it's insane. Why wasn't every mission like that? Or at the very least every second mission?
The story might still have been rubbish, but at least it would have been well paced and engaging rubbish.
Also, can anyone tell me what the last deployment mission name is? Failing these S rank deployments and losing all my S-rank soldiers and walker gears is driving me crazy.
Zombie James
Banned
At least "that shit" actually produces entertaining moments, rather than the Diet Miller routine he does in this game.
"CHECK YER IDROID."
The thing with Ocelot is he could genuinely be the boring character we see in The Phantom Pain. It's arguable that in MGS3 he's just young, and in all the games following that he's just pretending to be whatever's necessary. "Oh hey, I love torture. Oops, perhaps I love it too much, 'cause I killed Donald Anderson. Haha, tricked you, I wanted to do that".
The problem is he has no personality in The Phantom Pain. He's wearing spurs because he's Ocelot, but he is utterly forgettable. It's easy for this Ocelot to canonically be the 'real' Ocelot, but holy shit is it boring. Just make him a character who gets off on torturing people and reloading revolvers, it's what people want to see.
The problem is he has no personality in The Phantom Pain. He's wearing spurs because he's Ocelot, but he is utterly forgettable. It's easy for this Ocelot to canonically be the 'real' Ocelot, but holy shit is it boring. Just make him a character who gets off on torturing people and reloading revolvers, it's what people want to see.
From this video I learned that the game telling you to press X to crouch is a "condescending tutorial" and that Drebin's codec calls about the B&B unit were "fucked up stories that put into context the horrors of war".
Like I understand being disappointed, but some of his points were pretty out there.
I overall really liked TPP, but yeah, it's a shame there are no scenes that even come close to the Volta in MGS4... Or the Rex vs. Ray fight, either.
Yeah, dude's been burnt by being suave too many times
But I also agree that doesn't mean he didn't need a personality.
they did
the horror of war is that it'll turn you into a sexy model boss, and then you'll only get the backstory after you get shot in the face, and it'll be the same backstory every time, and nobody will care
I think he was just comparing to how it is TPP. The BB unit did have distinct backstories to them (I don't think anyone cared) and weren't just complete bullet sponge enemies as their fights were still quite unique unlike the "boss" unit we got with MGSV.
KOMANI
KOMANI
I can understand if you love the game and it's story whether you see flaws or not... But my opinion is that this game won't be fondly remembered within the franchise (yes, including 4).
Currently, there's no replayability, you're asked to do the same mission x100, unlike the others that had you do different things. So all that awesome gameplay? Wasted.
The story is shit now. It was a turd, but now it's formless... The reason there are so many questions left from playing the game is because KojimaPro didn't know how to answer them. This Metal Gear solidified the fact that the story is bs. The agenda has always been to appeal to western audiences, that's why we have Kiefer, and subdued Ocelot/Joel .
If you want to use a mgsv CASSETTE TAPE, to prove an arguement... Great, fine. I'm using 4 whole games as a counter arguement.
I don't even want to argue about Metal Gear, but truth be told, ocelot is a victim of character assassination.
Currently, there's no replayability, you're asked to do the same mission x100, unlike the others that had you do different things. So all that awesome gameplay? Wasted.
The story is shit now. It was a turd, but now it's formless... The reason there are so many questions left from playing the game is because KojimaPro didn't know how to answer them. This Metal Gear solidified the fact that the story is bs. The agenda has always been to appeal to western audiences, that's why we have Kiefer, and subdued Ocelot/Joel .
If you want to use a mgsv CASSETTE TAPE, to prove an arguement... Great, fine. I'm using 4 whole games as a counter arguement.
I don't even want to argue about Metal Gear, but truth be told, ocelot is a victim of character assassination.
I wouldn't say the minute to minute gameplay is boring, but there's a formula that relies on the core gameplay mechanics pretty stringently. So there's no keycard minigame, or bomb defusal, pretending to be a scientist, or being imprisoned. I'm sure they are people who didn't care for those elements in past games, though.
I think The Phantom Pain has a good amount of variety in its Main Missions focusing mainly on rescuing or killing someone, but I would have liked if they shook up the formula more often, like they did with Mission 43. Like, off the top of my head, you could do things like a helicopter/vehicle chase where you are manning a minigun and killing or disarming vehicles in a large convoy. Shake it up.
This is one of the only things I can criticise about the gameplay/structure. I adore all of it - but literally tens of the Main Missions/Episodes could be named as Side Ops. That way we would have 10-20 focused, tight, engaging Main Missions/Episodes, where every on counts, and more variety in our Side Ops.
However the reason they're in different tabs is because of how the missions are structured. Main Missions have a defined play-area and 'hot zone'. Side ops are open world - which wouldn't fit with how tightly the Main Missions are designed.
Also, I agree that replaying Main Missions for the side objectives is the tits. It's far more Metal Gear and even gives me some Splinter Cell Chaos Theory vibes. You really have to engage with the missions in those situations.
I actually liked this. So for his send-off, Kojima wanted to do the biggest reveal he'd ever done. He wanted to one-up MGS2. But really, there's nothing he could do that was that big. So instead he used exactly the same twist as MGS2 except:
- it had more impact on the wider story (Venom has a bigger role in MG1/rest of series than Raiden has in MGS4)
- the reveal was at the end instead of the start, making it much more of a mindfuck
You and me both buddy.
It's funny 'cos they were distinct, but yet, ultimately, all the same.
Girl + family in war, army comes through, kills people, girl lives, goes crazy, kills everybody, unique hook that ties in emotion+animal, talk about emotion a few times again, now they're part of the B&B Corp. Rage!
GreyOcelot
Member
Didn't ocelot inadvertently kill sigint/anderson during torture?
MGS4 retconned it so that he did it on purpose.
Yeah that's true lmao. But at least the actual boss fights, pre-skintight suits, was fun.
You jokin? When I finished MGSV I went and played Mad Max for a few hours. I had fun, but I went back to MGSV for a couple of missions the next day and the variety, depth and freedom in MGSV was staggering, even in comparison to a very solid, although quite middle-of-the-road game like Mad Max. MGSV is almost unparalleled in this respect. At some point you do need to start injecting your own fun into the experience - going all combat or bombing all the guards in the base and stuff - but calling it 'not replayable' is goddamn insane. Try doing some of the Main Missions which have 6 objectives each. It becomes legitimately fun upping your game and trying new strategies to nail these objectives.
God damn that ending is a stinger.
I don't agree with the way he frames the video. He'll get a lot of flack for it and people will disregard him because of the tone. But I agree with a lot of his points in the video.
A laughing octopus fight in the Fox Engine would be so sick. Imagine that fight in a place bigger than like 4 rooms
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