KOMANI
KOMANI
I'm happy for you. I'm not being sarcastic... But the game came out this month... I'm talking about years later. And I'm also predicting the majority of people won't remember this game, which you might not fall into.
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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hoho. Yeah, I'd forgotten about that.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
The Skull Face/Snake confrontation is so strange, from Snake just following Skull Face around, to Skull Face monologuing for ten minutes while Snake just sits there doing nothing, to Sins of the Father randomly start playing, to the fucking radio go off with Miller, Ocelot, and Code Talker going off in your ear, not even letting you listen to the damn song.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I think it was always intentional. In the call to the president at the end of MGS1, ocelot says that the DARPA chief knew his identity but that he'd been disposed of.
Not even MGS4, the stinger at the end of MGS revealed that Ocelot killed the DARPA chief because he knew who Ocelot really was.
Punished_Snake
Member
You can criticize whatever you want, but I found many criticism points against the game to be not valid. Like Super Bunnyhop video, he criticized the game main missions objectives to be all about getting from point A to B or neutralize a target, no shit, this is a stealth game in the first place, getting from point A to B without being detected is what MGS V and other stealth games are all about. All open world games you have to move between points and in MGS V, you have the freedom to chose the strategy to finish your objectives.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
I wonder if Kojima regretted his choice to go with Kiefer at some point during development. It really seems like he was working around the issue instead of just checking his ego and going back to Hayter, who surely would've cost a ton less and been up for long recording sessions
Man, I'd really like to read a post mortem on what the fuck happened with MGSV. There's a great game underneath this rubble
Wait, huh? That didn't happen to me; the song just played while they rode in the car and everyone was awkwardly silent, and when it ended Skullface started talking again. There was no radio conversation
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Lostconfused
Member
Wow way to be reductive. Every game is the same because you just go from start to the designated end point. Unless its a competitive game where you either win or lose.
The freedom to choose any strategy means you have the freedom to choose the same strategy that works every time because there is no game design elements that would compel you to do otherwise.
You can criticize whatever you want, but I found many criticism points against the criticism to be not valid.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Exactly. A shame, because if it had a shred of personality peacewalker had, I don't think that would be the case.
MiguelItUp
Member
This is exactly how I feel. At least I know there are people out there that feel the same way I do. This honestly is the only Metal Gear that I've put 70+ hours into and I plan on completing 100% and that says something.
Punished_Snake
Member
For boring players with no creativity, this is true.
Lostconfused
Member
So then we agree that it's a boring game for a specific group of people.
Do we now argue how large this group of people is and how that relates to the overall quality of the game?
Yeah, I'm getting really tired of people's disappointment with the story skewing how they see the entire game. If you could show people 10 years ago what an MGS game in 2015 would be like, and then let them play it, they would die happy on the spot. And it has succeeded in fully realising that gameplay fantasy.
Yes, the story is disappointing, but as a game alone on game terms, it's fucking brilliant.
Thanks – and I'm sorry, I didn't mean to snap at you. I just cannot disagree more re the replayability comment. I think that is uncalled for. I don't fully disagree with the other things you said in that post, though.
I think it could go either way at this point. At the time of MGS2's release, people went insane about Raiden and detested the fact that the game was half cutscene. Now, people look back on MGS2 very fondly.
Down the line I think people will like the Venom twist and get over a lot of the problems they have with MGSV. I'm not excusing it for it's problems, but I'm saying people will be able to objectify it more and weigh it evenly in hindsight.
Exactly same here.
There's positivity creeping into the thread! At long last!
Zomba13
Member
But if something has proven to be effective why change the strategy? Why would I choose to try something less effective without being forced to?
It's why I like the total stealth and subsistence versions of missions, because the game forces me to change up how I play and I have to adapt and come up with new strategies (well, subsistence. I try and play total stealth any way).
There are times the game demands you mix things up like in its "boss" fights. Having to use lethal means to take down the armoured Skulls or Sahelanthropus and surprising you with the Quiet mission (at least me) when you might not be equipped for it (I took her down with the sleepy pistol. It was fun but not how I would have played it if the game didn't surprise me.).
Punished_Snake
Member
No, we can agree that boring or bored players who don't enjoy playing good videogames and only wants to see the conclusion to the story should play other games or watch it on youtube.
Fun. I sometimes hit people with the Rocket Arm just because I feel like it.
Lostconfused
Member
Well I don't agree with any of this so lets not agree. Unless Konami is willing to offer a full refund to all those boring players, then fine.
Punished_Snake
Member
No, you can change your strategy to make your play style more effective not to be less effective.
Say what you want about his voice as such, but Kiefer's voice acting is much better than Hayter's. Except for maybe in MGS 1 and 2. MGSV easily has the best voice acting going on since then. They all sound very credible in part V. Booted up MGS3 a few hours ago and damn the voice acting is horrible. Only person performing well in that is the woman playing Boss.
KOMANI
KOMANI
It's not the twist, only a minority of people dislike the game because the twist... It's the lack of story. The story starts and ends in the hospital... Literally. Quiet? If you shoot her in the face, then there's no Quiet story. Eli's story never gets concluded.
We went from Mgs4, that tried to over explain everything including why your sister's favorite color is turquoise, to a game with no story, that promised to explain things, that it itself asked. It's not even a bare skeleton of a story, it's just a skull
face
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
you could've pressed Back like i did so it would pause the game
rookie
I'd rather have a hammy snake that actually talks and emotes when and where you'd expect a person to than this stiff dummy who randomly rubs ashes on his face, gets into splash fights, and spends a majority of the time staying quiet while everyone around him talks for days
there has to be more exits on the storyline highway than "he talks too much" and "he never talks." MGS3 is probably the game that best balances out story and gameplay overall and is the closest thing we'll get to a middle of the road in regards to those two extremes
Also, can someone explain the Hand of Jehuty a bit for me? I got it really late into the game and couldn't really tell what good uses there are for it, especially near the end when there are guards everywhere and the game becomes rougher
After beating the game around a week ago and thinking about it, the entire experience felt empty and I feel like I'll never play it again. The technical gameplay was of course fantastic, but everything was so mediocre to me. The open world did nothing but waste my time and I felt like I could approach every situation exactly the same once I got the tranquilizing sniper. Especially more so once I got rocket arm.
I could probably make a lot of my own fun by trying to limit myself with no buddies and none of the weapons that make the game a cake walk. But after playing for 80 hours I don't really care anymore.
I could probably make a lot of my own fun by trying to limit myself with no buddies and none of the weapons that make the game a cake walk. But after playing for 80 hours I don't really care anymore.
I was actually happy with the story - I was including the twist in that. I know a lot of people who hated the twist - including in this very thread.
I felt the story was solid. It told us enough, no more, no less. It didn't bloat anything - except for a couple of tapes (parasites). There are aspects which were clearly cut, and it's a pity they're not there, and it's a bit weird that they never tied off a couple of things - but IMO it tied up the things it really needed to tie up. The only thing I can see as an exception is that we never saw BB become a demon - but that happened at the end of MGS3 and was fulfilled in PW.
But it will definitely be interesting to see how people feel years down the line. Especially whether we get more MGS games or not.
I do this, too. Ganking people with D-Walker is fun as hell, too.
The Phantom Pain is a little weird when it comes to player freedom.
You have tons of options for how you can approach a mission, but it asserts a 'correct' way of playing. It does this with the Mission Score system, and the Fulton system.
My options, when attempting to do a mission well, are filtered through "I should do this without being seen" and "I should do this trying not to kill anyone", which restricts what you are able to do by quite a significant amount. Then there are things like Air Support automatically removing the possibility of getting an S rank, and therefore being things you mentally check off of your list of options.
You have dozens of weapons, but when you filter it through the two major factors I mentioned above, you really only have a few. Your tranquillizer dart pistol, perhaps a silenced rifle you can develop (and its tranquilizing variant), a variety of grenade and decoys. Assuming you want to play the game well, which I assume most players go into a mission intending to do, you don't have all that many options.
Compared to something like Far Cry 2/3/4, where there isn't really any defined 'correct' way of doing any mission or outpost, I find that's where options erupt. "I'm going to tear through this place with a grenade launcher" sort of stuff. You can do that in The Phantom Pain, but will most players? I don't know.
You have a lot more freedom in infiltration, though.
You have tons of options for how you can approach a mission, but it asserts a 'correct' way of playing. It does this with the Mission Score system, and the Fulton system.
My options, when attempting to do a mission well, are filtered through "I should do this without being seen" and "I should do this trying not to kill anyone", which restricts what you are able to do by quite a significant amount. Then there are things like Air Support automatically removing the possibility of getting an S rank, and therefore being things you mentally check off of your list of options.
You have dozens of weapons, but when you filter it through the two major factors I mentioned above, you really only have a few. Your tranquillizer dart pistol, perhaps a silenced rifle you can develop (and its tranquilizing variant), a variety of grenade and decoys. Assuming you want to play the game well, which I assume most players go into a mission intending to do, you don't have all that many options.
Compared to something like Far Cry 2/3/4, where there isn't really any defined 'correct' way of doing any mission or outpost, I find that's where options erupt. "I'm going to tear through this place with a grenade launcher" sort of stuff. You can do that in The Phantom Pain, but will most players? I don't know.
You have a lot more freedom in infiltration, though.
freedom isn't free, man
1. This is something I think The Last of Us nailed. It doesn't track your stats. It doesn't grade you. It doesn't give a shit how you complete your objective/surmount the obstacles. Just do it. Get spotted? As long as you don't waste all your ammo/resources, you're fine. Escape. Ambush them. Fight back. Whatever you want.
Just do it.
This made the gameplay much more dynamic and engaging because there was no 'punishment' either way.
2. I think the 'perfect stealth' and 'subsistence' missions, and trying to complete the Side Objectives on various Main Missions, do force you to use more gadgets and push for more variety in the game. If you just play all the missions once and truck on through, it can definitely come out as a 'one playstyle, repetitive' game.
Zomba13
Member
But I'm already tranqing/stunning all the guard, kicking them and interrogating then kicking again and extracting so they don't make noise and aren't found. Grabbing materials and taking people out from range etc. How do I make that more effective?
Rocket arm isn't just fun, it's also one of the most OP tools available. It stuns people so you can extract them, is "silent" and can be used as a distraction/lure.
That's the strangest thing about this game's design - the farther you progress up the gear/buddy unlock trees, the more predictable everything becomes. Your options actually become more limited as your go-to equipment loses all its downsides.
Usually getting access to all the tools in a game means that you get to experience it the way it was always meant to be played, but here it's more akin to unlocking a bunch of cheat codes that only obscure its core game design.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
To the idea of being "more effective," I don't think that's a good answer. Once I had a tranq sniper, water gun, silenced assault rifle, the Hand of Jehuty, a box and some C4, I was pretty damn efficient. That package had most of the tools I needed to complete a mission. The only thing that I ever needed to change was occasionally swapping my sniper for a launcher and changing my buddy.
This is a great way to describe the issue.
Right. I had a lot of fun (in addition to the fun I had played more typically) with the game when I decided to say "screw it". Deciding I'm taking a pistol and I'm spreading brains, or pressing a shotgun barrel against kneecaps. But you have to mentally get past the idea of doing what the game pushes you to do.
The elements I talked about before also screw with the responsive AI behaviours. Despite my tactics being harder to use I would push on with them, because that felt like a better option than going lethal or dramatically changing the way I played. Without a scoring system, at least without an S-D ranking, I think the gameplay would fare better. Give the player a title according to how they play, like 'Shark' or 'Fox', but I don't think the rank helps the gameplay variety at all.
I also do wish 'Perfect Stealth', 'Subsistence' and 'Extreme' were modifiers I could apply to missions of my choosing.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I so wanted that as an after credit scene in V, Signt distraught asking why Ocelot his "friend" and partner is doing this.
Maybe Ocelot mentions he didn't even need to get his hands dirty with Paramedic.
potatohead
Member
Agree 100%. The Subsistence mission where you kill the 3 radar dishes was the most amazing gameplay experience I had in MGSV. It was intense, at times confusing, difficult, but most of all I had to adapt to the circumstances. It was frigging fantastic.
Long story short: I was saved by a sandstorm so I could use claymores (that I just luckily happened to find on one side of the base) on two of the radar dishes (aimed them at the dishes, then shot them from a distance) so I didn't alert anyone....There were 3 of them, and I screwed up one of the claymores, so I couldn't claymore all the radar dishes..... so more adapting! Then after stealing a rocket launcher earlier from one of the knocked out soldiers.. I just ran away to 200+ meters and shot a rocket at the last dish and escaped! S ranked first try, no retries, was great!
This whole experience of the Subsistence mission makes me question the open world design further, and equipment choices, and R&D and everything. Because it was actually the mode in which I had the least choice to choose my loadout, and it was forced upon me to use no equipment, that the adaptive gameplay potential was most realized.
Seems like it would be up on youtube if you search for it...they did go by fast, I just saved the replay of them on the PS4.
Here's one:
https://youtu.be/tHBjJEoxDRo?t=55m29s
Solid Snake gets deployed in response to Gray Fox getting a "Metal Gear..." transmission out. When Venom punches out the mirror at the end, there's an Outer Heaven logo behind him, so presumably he's not very happy with the man whose face he's wearing by the time the events of MG1 roll around.
Trying to put those two pieces together with some other bits and a fair amount of conjecture, it seems like what happens is that Venom starts developing a Metal Gear without Big Boss's approval and stops returning his calls for whatever reason, or alternatively, Outer Heaven is enough of a public threat that Big Boss has to bow to pressure and send in a guy on what looks like a legit mission to keep the heat off his own back. Either way, Gray Fox gets sent in to find out what's going on and gets his message out, and the name Metal Gear sets off enough alarm bells within US intelligence services that BB can't just ignore it. So he sends Solid Snake in, and sends Venom a tape detailing the operation.
What's interesting is that what Big Boss tells Snake and what he tells Venom are two different things. Venom says Snake's mission was to "to bring back false information of Metal Gear", but Big Boss's instructions to Snake at the start of the op are to "destroy the ultimate weapon, Metal Gear". Unfortunately for Venom, Metal Gear getting blown up sets off Outer Heaven's self-destruct sequence, so it seems likely that the Big Boss who starts giving Snake bad information on a different channel near the end is actually Venom trying desperately to get him killed, having finally realized that the guy who's been blowing up all of his best men probably isn't just here on a fact-finding mission.
It looks an awful lot like Big Boss throws Venom under a bus to fake his own death, once he and Outer Heaven become more trouble than they're worth.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
whoa
What a disappointment. A disgraceful end to a decent series. Got to admit each game prior to this apart from Peace Walker was excellent, held up the greatness of what Metal Gear was, yet each time innovating. The series as a whole may have been poor, but each game was great.
Phantom Pain had great gameplay was great when it was fresh and didn't repeated itself. After that I couldn't give a fuck, and the only think that was stopping me from youtubing the rest was that it's the last Metal Gear, I might as well push through. Then it finished suddenly. I didn't even know it was the last mission. I kept trying to finish the repeat missions in an effort to progress the story, until some googling made me realize that that was it... I found it so hard to believe that all we saw in the trailers was all we got. And that this was nothing like the numbered titles despite being one. No meaningful boss fights. No memorable experiences. Just a cold abrupt end.
The marketing for this game was insane, all those popular tracks and mysteries created by the trailers and words like missing link and taboo. It all made it seem like we were going to be getting something big. Nope.
Portable Ops had a far better plot than whatever this was. Kojima sure tackled many taboos here. Like selling a demo then an incomplete game.
Phantom Pain had great gameplay was great when it was fresh and didn't repeated itself. After that I couldn't give a fuck, and the only think that was stopping me from youtubing the rest was that it's the last Metal Gear, I might as well push through. Then it finished suddenly. I didn't even know it was the last mission. I kept trying to finish the repeat missions in an effort to progress the story, until some googling made me realize that that was it... I found it so hard to believe that all we saw in the trailers was all we got. And that this was nothing like the numbered titles despite being one. No meaningful boss fights. No memorable experiences. Just a cold abrupt end.
The marketing for this game was insane, all those popular tracks and mysteries created by the trailers and words like missing link and taboo. It all made it seem like we were going to be getting something big. Nope.
Portable Ops had a far better plot than whatever this was. Kojima sure tackled many taboos here. Like selling a demo then an incomplete game.
potatohead
Member
That's a really cool theory.
I'll subscribe to that unless it becomes non-canon. Sounds cool.
Only thing I would add I think is that Solid Snake was sent in as intended to fail. I think Big Boss intended him to fail.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Ok so I just finished it, is there something somewhere that sums up the cut content and/or explains some stuff?
Am I right in thinking the actual Big Boss is the one from the end of MGS4 and Venom is the Big Boss from MG1? Also that was psycho Mantis right, I kept listening to the tapes but it was never confirmed.
Am I right in thinking the actual Big Boss is the one from the end of MGS4 and Venom is the Big Boss from MG1? Also that was psycho Mantis right, I kept listening to the tapes but it was never confirmed.
NoctisVsStar
Member
MG1 = venom snake or Venom Boss
MG2& MGS4 = Big Boss
The red hair kid = psycho mantis
MiguelItUp
Member
The thing that sticks out the most in regards to MGS V is the fact that there's a possibility the game could've been canned. I mean, with the amount of money that went into it, it's hard to think of that even being a possibility. But Konami's bizarre behavior makes it feel like anything could've happened. Sure, the game has content missing and some loose ends that could've been tied better and most likely was meant to. But in my opinion what we got is still a phenomenal game. It makes me feel bad for Kojima because honestly it's pretty obvious there were more plans for the game and those didn't come to fruition. If this REALLY is Kojima's final Metal Gear, I can't imagine how he feels knowing his final game is "done" but not complete, at least not the way he wanted it. I mean, it's something he created and carried for almost 30 years. The whole thing is a subject that I hope we get more information on, but highly doubt we ever will honestly.
Yes all round.
I personally adore every aspect of MGSV's gameplay, but I can't deny that when I tried the first Subsistence mission, I had my first feeling of 'This is Metal Gear Solid'.
In MGS, you always felt outgunned and outnumbered. It was always a risk stepping out to grab a guy or moving from point to point. MGSV is a masterpiece of game design, but I think they should have restricted the player in certain scenarios.
This just made me realise... Where was the prison scene? MGS always has a prison scene. It's always classic. And you're always stripped of your gear.
A prison level/mission in MGSV would have been god-tier. We would have had to step up our shit. It would have been a perfect opportunity to play with the 'he's not really Snake' aspect, too. Like the interrogators getting confused/surprised by his answers.
Thank you!
I thought the same way until I saw a friend tear through a few missions with a grenade launcher and come out with an S. The speed you gain on a well executed loud approach seems to make up for the loss of the stealth bonuses.
Markitron
Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Ah right, thanks. So is one BB a bad guy and the other not? Can't remember the specifics of MG1 &2. Also did I miss a tape that states that it was Psycho Mantis?
Punished_Snake
Member
As you progress in the game, you will have more options and this will make the game open up and most certainly make it easier, so this isn't a fault in the game, all games should make you feel you made a progress in your skills and the way you think to finish an objective. MGS V expect some intelligent from the players. I don't use hand of jehuty or the water gun so how you play the game is obviously different than how I play it.
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