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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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Lostconfused said:
They already explained it in MG2 by speculating that Big Boss had majority of his body replaced by mechanical components. Considering the crazy bionic arm shenanigans you get in MGSV that actually seems the more obvious and plausible resolution than a body double.
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I thought i remember something about BB in MG2 essentially being a Snatcher but i don't recall where i got those details from.

Sciz said:
Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I remember both of those being his decision. He gets the final say on Battle Gear going into development, and Kaz grills him over bringing Sahelanthropus to the base in a tape.
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I thought Sahelanthropus coming back to the base was something Venom did grudgingly but maybe i'm misremembering
 
Sciz said:
They're important to Kojima himself and the rest of the series, even if most of the fanbase has never even played them. I imagine the inconsistency has been gnawing at him ever since he started actually writing Big Boss as a character.
Click to expand...

Of all the dumb shit in Metal Gear, Big Boss coming back for MG2 is like the least nonsensical thing. What he does to bring him back for MGS4 is even more ridiculous than being back for MG2.
 
Sciz said:
Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I remember both of those being his decision. He gets the final say on Battle Gear going into development, and Kaz grills him over bringing Sahelanthropus to the base in a tape.



They're important to Kojima himself and the rest of the series, even if most of the fanbase has never even played them. I imagine the inconsistency has been gnawing at him ever since he started actually writing Big Boss as a character.
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The question is "what inconsistency?"

Big Boss was defeated by Solid Snake in MG. Outer Heaven was bombed to hell and back. After the credits, we get a call from Big Boss saying that he survived and that he will meet Solid Snake again.

Now, Big Boss' presence in MG2:SS did not require any explanation. But let's pretend that fans were eager to know how. Kojima had two choices:


1) State that Big Boss had a secret exit/tunnel that protected him from the blast. He was badly injured, but recovered because he is one badass motherfucker.

2) Create an entire game, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, and put this incredibly dumb and unnecessary plot twist about a body double. Because that's basically what this game is all about.


I don't know about you, but I'm still baffled that Kojima chose the second option. Yeah, the man is crazy and has a hard on for unnecessary narrative, but seriously? "Secret tunnel" would've been more than fine.
 
Ishida said:
The question is "what inconsistency?"

Big Boss was defeated by Solid Snake in MG. Outer Heaven was bombed to hell and back. After the credits, we get a call from Big Boss saying that he survived and that he will meet Solid Snake again.

Now, Big Boss' presence in MG2:SS did not require any explanation. But let's pretend that fans were eager to know how. Kojima had two choices:


1) State that Big Boss had a secret exit/tunnel that protected him from the blast. He was badly injured, but recovered because he is one badass motherfucker.

2) Create an entire game, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, and put this incredibly dumb and unnecessary plot twist about a body double. Because that's basically what this game is all about.


I don't know about you, but I'm still baffled that Kojima chose the second option. Yeah, the man is crazy and has a hard on for unnecessary narrative, but seriously? "Secret tunnel" would've been more than fine.
Click to expand...

Wasn't it Big Boss' phantom that got defeated in MG?
 
Ishida said:
The question is "what inconsistency?"

Big Boss was defeated by Solid Snake in MG. Outer Heaven was bombed to hell and back. After the credits, we get a call from Big Boss saying that he survived and that he will meet Solid Snake again.

Now, Big Boss' presence in MG2:SS did not require any explanation. But let's pretend that fans were eager to know how. Kojima had two choices:


1) State that Big Boss had a secret exit/tunnel that protected him from the blast. He was badly injured, but recovered because he is one badass motherfucker.

2) Create an entire game, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain, and put this incredibly dumb and unnecessary plot twist about a body double. Because that's basically what this game is all about.


I don't know about you, but I'm still baffled that Kojima chose the second option. Yeah, the man is crazy and has a hard on for unnecessary narrative, but seriously? "Secret tunnel" would've been more than fine.
Click to expand...

I still don't know how Kojima has retroactively brainwashed so many people into thinking he covered up a plot hole that was never there
 
Finally beat it just now.

Now I can finally come in this thread lol

Holy shit what a twist..

Listening to the cassettes now. So much info
 
Edzi said:
In my mind, the only canon that matters now is MGS1-3. Everything else is just spinoffs.

MGS4 can stay too.
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I can't do that. I'm a sucker for canon. I really, REALLY dislike the plot of MGSV and what it brought to the table. But I accept it. It is "word of god" regarding the Metal Gear timeline.

I'm more on the "Well, it fucking sucks. But it is there" team. It's a giant elephant in the room I can't ignore.

Whatever Kojima considers canon (And this includes the main story of Portable Ops), I consider canon. For better or worse.

The Silver said:
I still don't know how Kojima has retroactively brainwashed so many people into thinking he covered up a plot hole that was never there
Click to expand...

I'm really surprised, too. I never saw any need to explain how Big Boss survived. He did. Secret exit/tunnel, whatever. But the first game straight up tells us that the man survived the encounter. That was it.
 
The Silver said:
I still don't know how Kojima has retroactively brainwashed so many people into thinking he covered up a plot hole that was never there
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Because nobody actually played the games where the "plot hole" happened?

That said, I would guess that his primary motivation was having a twist like that and the secondary one was using it to explain the "plot hole."
 
BizzyBum said:
Everyone hates the game here.

Enjoy your stay!
Click to expand...
Not everyone. I don't see anyone saying the story and design decisions concerning it are God's greatest gift to gaming but there are some people who see good things in it.

Such as

<---------

Some of the good things this game had/did from a pure story standpoint:

  • Huey's story arc
  • Quiet's story arc (not talking about her visual representation here)
  • Hospital escape
  • Mantis backstory
  • Zero truth tapes
  • WHOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
my single biggest disappointment, story-wise?: the huey & quiet torture sequences. gratuitous & tasteless, even for kojima. i have no idea why huey doesn't just tell them what they want to know, or why the boss allows a battle companion like quiet to be subjected to something like that. if this kinda stuff was all that kojima had left to fall back on, then i'm very glad the whole thing's finished for good...
 
Doctor_Thomas said:
This is another point. He tried to explain a plot hole from the two, and let's be honest, least known games in the franchise that absolutely no one was asking about. People didn't CARE that Big Boss showed up in MG2, no one cared. Why did he need to answer that, of all questions?
Click to expand...

The point of the twist isn't to answer a question no one cared about.

It's all about letting you, the player, be Big Boss. That's why it's in there. The fact that it could be slipped into the canon pretty smoothly is just a bonus. You may think it's lame, but that's just where Kojima's priorities lie.

For my part, I understand and appreciate the twist, but it was probably a mistake. It makes so many things so weird... Like hey, why don't John and Adamska ever reminisce about the Snake Eater mission? Because it's not John, it's some other, confused guy who has some fuzzy memories implanted into him and shrapnel in his brain. He knows the facts of the events, but he doesn't know what it was like to have that one last showdown aboard the WIG. During 99% of the game, this is pretty weird, and it finally makes sense when the twist is revealed. But by then, the game is over.
 
I mean, it's not like Kojima needed to come up with a logical way BB survives MG1. Nanomachines, son. It's how he survived MG2 when the Patriots fixed him up.
 
I loved the game a lot, to be honest I've put more time into it than a ton of single player experiences. My biggest disappointment is that the game clearly was affected by whatever was / is going on between Kojima and Konami.
 
Ishida said:
I can't do that. I'm a sucker for canon. I really, REALLY dislike the plot of MGSV and what it brought to the table. But I accept it. It is "word of god" regarding the Metal Gear timeline.

I'm more on the "Well, it fucking sucks. But it is there" team. It's a giant elephant in the room I can't ignore.

Whatever Kojima considers canon (And this includes the main story of Portable Ops), I consider canon. For better or worse.



I'm really surprised, too. I never saw any need to explain how Big Boss survived. He did. Secret exit/tunnel, whatever. But the first game straight up tells us that the man survived the encounter. That was it.
Click to expand...

Honestly at this point, it's pretty obvious Kojima doesn't give a single fuck, so I don't see why we should either, just roll with whatever you think is the best.
 
MGSV Mytbusters Episode 3

p5uGffW.gif
 
Sumio Mondo said:
Honestly at this point, it's pretty obvious Kojima doesn't give a single fuck, so I don't see why we should either, just roll with whatever you think is the best.
Click to expand...

I thought about it. But in the end I always come back to canon.

I have this feeling that being a fan means accepting both the good or bad. Liking and disliking, but accepting the existence of both sides of the spectrum.
 
Ishida said:
The question is "what inconsistency?"
Click to expand...

A body double stretches my credulity a lot less than Big Boss being on the wrong end of a rocket launcher on a self-destructing 100th floor sub-basement that gets carpet bombed into dust and walking away alive.

I'd admittedly forgotten about the stinger, so I'm on the wrong end of this anyway, but "jk, not dead" doesn't answer the question either.

KarmaCow said:
Of all the dumb shit in Metal Gear, Big Boss coming back for MG2 is like the least nonsensical thing. What he does to bring him back for MGS4 is even more ridiculous than being back for MG2.
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Oh, absolutely.

Opto said:
So did Big Boss really get cyberized for MG2 or was just a lie
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It's a pretty obvious jab at Snake's Revenge, where he really is a big hulking cyborg. Also a Snatcher shoutout.
 
Sumio Mondo said:
Honestly at this point, it's pretty obvious Kojima doesn't give a single fuck, so I don't see why we should either, just roll with whatever you think is the best.
Click to expand...

This is where I'm at. Kojima has proven he doesn't care about his fiction and characters, so whatever. It also helps that MGS1-3 are very distinct and feel different from the rest of the series. It's almost like a switch went off after 3 and he just stopped caring.
 
Edzi said:
This is where I'm at. Kojima has proven he doesn't care about his fiction and characters, so whatever. It also helps that MGS1-3 are very distinct and feel different from the rest of the series. It's almost like a switch went off after 3 and he just stopped caring.
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Well, he did try to stop making MGS games. He originally wasn't even directing 4. The entire game has this underlying meta narrative about Kojima being forced to make Metal Gear games and not wanting to, haha
 
I wonder how many doubles/clones Bowser had... Surely he couldn't survive all those lava baths.
Bowser= Big Boss
King Kooper= Venom Snake
 
SolVanderlyn said:
Well, he did try to stop making MGS games. He originally wasn't even directing 4. The entire game has this underlying meta narrative about Kojima being forced to make Metal Gear games and not wanting to, haha
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That's kinda what I mean though. He doesn't care about telling a story or being consistent with his world and characters. He just wants to use those characters and the world he built (that tons of people love and are attached to) to spout some meta garbage. I get that he may not have wanted to make the game anymore but I wish he had the self control to just tell a story without just using his characters/world to make a statement. MGS2 was a good example of him telling a (mostly) internally consistent story while still making whatever statement he wanted to make, while MGSV is the ultimate example of him just throwing his characters away to try and 'speak to the fans'.
 
Edzi said:
That's kinda what I mean though. He doesn't care about telling a story or being consistent with his world and characters. He just wants to use those characters and the world he built (that tons of people love and are attached to) to spout some meta garbage. I get that he may not have wanted to make the game anymore but I wish he had the self control to just tell a story without just using his characters/world to make a statement. MGS2 was a good example of him telling a (mostly) internally consistent story while still making whatever statement he wanted to make, while MGSV is the ultimate example of him just throwing his characters away to try and 'speak to the fans'.
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Oh, I totally agree. MGSV is the perfect example of a Metal Gear game that seems like it was forced to be a Metal Gear game. Honestly, if The Phantom Pain was a standalone stealth title I think it would be a much better game, and better received story wise.

Chariot said:
The Bows
Big Bows
Solid Mario
Green Mario
Click to expand...
DbGr85W.jpg
 
Okay, so I mentioned earlier today ITT that I'd give some directions for getting Solid Snake as avatar.

My settings for Solid Snake are far from 100% accurate. But there are moments where it's spot on. The problem is that it's not a very in-depth face-maker. I can't get his jaw right and I can't give him quite the right shape of nose. (Seriously, I sat for ages staring at pictures of Snake in MGS2, MGS4 and Twin Snakes trying to get this shit right. I've gone more for the Twin Snakes model, as that's the original Solid Snake we all know and love.) If anyone has any improvements, just say the word.

Also, because you can't quite get the jaw right, giving him the Type 1 beard hides the wrong jawline and makes him look a bit better. Hence my first test pics. Also he always looks shit in the ACC. The face is really blunt and badly lit in the ACC. It's so weak. Usually looks good once in the game world.

So, for starters, here is how he looks while I'm playing him (I hope these images aren't too huge):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922194125.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922193513.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922194902.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922195237.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922195012.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922195427.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922193632.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922200542.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922195952.jpg

^ He looks just like Solid Snake in that last one!

With beard:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922191946.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922192656.jpg

Okay, so the directions:

First off - go to Customization while you're in the ACC. Choose avatar. Here are the settings (from bottom to top of Customisation screen):

Skin colour>
Skin colour = 1
Skin type = 8

Jawline:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201526.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201535.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201544.jpg

Mouth:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201552.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201556.jpg

Cheeks:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201602.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201608.jpg

Nose:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201615.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201621.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201624.jpg

Eyes:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201632.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201637.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201640.jpg

Brow:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201646.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201649.jpg

Hair:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201656.jpg

Feature (he can look really bland, especially while in the ACC. Just the nature of these Avatar models, I think.):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u... SOLID V_ THE PHANTOM PAIN_20150922201721.jpg
 
talking about how big boss couldn't have survived a battle with snake in Metal Gear 1 just reminds me that of three characters who died violently in Metal Gear 2, all three were miraculously revived without body doubles (Dr. Madnar blown up and is mentioned to be alive in MGS4 with zero explanation, Gray Fox is killed in a mined room but was revived, Big Boss was burned to death but revived and put into nanomachine coma).
 
Henkka said:
The point of the twist isn't to answer a question no one cared about.

It's all about letting you, the player, be Big Boss. That's why it's in there.
Click to expand...

That's fucking dumb, I've been Big Boss for three and a half games, inserting some fourth wall breaking shit that also screws with established canon and pisses away the plot of this game doesn't make me fee somehow more badass. Kojima has lost his touch.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
talking about how big boss couldn't have survived a battle with snake in Metal Gear 1 just reminds me that of three characters who died violently in Metal Gear 2, all three were miraculously revived without body doubles (Dr. Madnar blown up and is mentioned to be alive in MGS4 with zero explanation, Gray Fox is killed in a mined room but was revived, Big Boss was burned to death but revived and put into nanomachine coma).
Click to expand...
Obviously that was Venom Fox and Dr. Medic Madnar
 
Maaan, just beat 29 and am super pissed. Some of the worst missions so far leading up to it, the annoying time pressure of having my dudes getting sick, and when it's all done I lost about 400/1100 people.

I knew you were supposed to quarantine people manually but I figured I'd be fine if I just did the missions quickly.

I hope it at least biased the sickness to my crappier soldiers
 
While probably a helpful guide, I can't help but feel like your post would do better with links rather than spoiler-tagged images, SomTervo. That's rivaling, if not surpassing, NotTheGuyYouKill's massive alternate story post.


EDIT: Not that it'll matter for 50PPPers, but 100PPPers will still have to scroll past that for a while longer.
 
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