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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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Perfectly put. All the core tools for distraction and offense can be obtained with very little Fultoning.
Kevin Shields
Member
Yea except often I needed to go loud to get an S rank and do it quck so there was easy advantage to different play styles. It's not gimping myself at all... I play different missions differently and it's stupid to play a 50 hour game te exact same way every time. One thing they could have done was give you two secondary weapon slots.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
this is probably the stupidest question asked but i need to know:
Is there a way to fulton a gunship? Like, is there a base where one is stationed or something. I'm guessing the answer is no but i never really tried to find one
Is there a way to fulton a gunship? Like, is there a base where one is stationed or something. I'm guessing the answer is no but i never really tried to find one
Kevin Shields
Member
Yea people are forgetting that some of the "filler missions" had amazing design. Like Alienous said, 21 was awesome set up. Mission 3 was great to with one of my favorite layouts even though it was simple. Maybe it was just me but I loved the mission where you had to take out the 4 walker gears.
giancarlo123x
Banned
**I want to preface this that any use of the word "you" is not directed at you, Alienous, and that I bear no grudge or anything, but rather my use of the word "you" is directed at the general sense of hyperbolic jerk-iness that is going on all over the thread from various users on both sides of this discussion.**
Or maybe its people who have different opinions and views and priorities? Not everyone likes PW, not everyone likes MGS1, not everyone likes MGS2, not everyone likes MGS4, not everyone likes MGSV...(MGS is literally one of the most decisive, yet beloved series.)
The only mistake you can make is to just flat out assume your side is right when there are people who disagree. You need to understand what is personal taste and what is an absolute. People just like to be right so they make their taste into truth and push that truth to others, because it's satisfying to win.
The only way to actually win, though, is to share ideas and experiences, and accept that people are just different people and you aren't right and they aren't right and i'm not right, but we're all still valid, but only to a point.
Basically, don't be a complete asshole to people for not agreeing with you. You could be wrong, your opinion could change, you could have a different truth tomorrow. I used to hate PW but now I'm replaying it in hd after beating V and I love it.
Obviously you have a right to your views and your speech. Just don't condescend to people on the grounds that they don't agree with you, that's fucked up.
nope.
I'm 99% sure it's not possible. Even sending trucks to your MB seems/looks funny.
The hill in Africa, where you have to destroy the walker gears? that was a fun layout. It was even more fun on extreme where getting caught was insta fail.
Isn't there a mission where the side objective is to get blueprints off of a gunship? I never went back and did it, but has anyone done that yet?
No, you're really not.
I made a claim about the game's internal reward structure and you responded with something about what a player could physically and virtually do. Those are unrelated concepts.
Since this is now the third time you've made this mistake I attribute it to ignorance rather than malice, though given the simplicity of the idea I've repeatedly conveyed neither merits a further response.
You blow it up and go to the crash site.
I guess it wouldn't make sense, since your chopper upgrades are seperate from vehicles anyways...though it'd be killer to be able to staff your FOB with a gunship...(or a hind d)
Now I feel dumb for not blowing it up when it landed. haha.
I'm not sure if I should read this entire post, but based on these last sentences allow me to clarify myself.
"Or perhaps there are people who perceive flaws in the game, and others who don't see any?"
That is exactly, uncontroversially, objectively the case. It's a statement on how different people view the same game differently.
EDIT:
Read your post.
Yeah, MGS have almost always been about doing things non-lethally (and that's how I preferably play when I get the chance eitherway), but no other MGS have been so punishing when it comes to using lethal weapons as MGSV.
Just the fact that there's a possibility that you might become a "demon" version of Venom Boss with an even bigger horn and blood you can't get rid of is so stupid and makes me not wanna use lethal weapons as I usually do after playing through the story once.
I wish the game could call different support choppers, that would do different things. But i guess you do that by equipping pequad with different weapons.
The 'volunteers' you get are few and far between compared to the 50+ highly ranked soldiers you come across per mission. Having played almost entirely with the mind set of extracting everyone (one time 53 soldiers in a single mission, all ranked A+ to B somewhat early on in the game), sent out 3 to 4 deployment missions at a time, easily 99% of my staff came from fulton extraction and I still haven't developed enough items to get the 300 items trophy.
There's just no way I can see someone legitimately advancing their mother base via neglecting fultoning and only getting a few volunteers at a time.
Successful infiltrations into highly ranked FOBs is the only other method that can pull in a decent amount of highly ranked soldiers, but that's pretty damn tough against 50 high ranked security staff, cameras, drones, and sensors.
Lostconfused
Member
Which is a thing that the post you responded to was quoting. Two wrongs don't make a right so if you want to argue that a more nuanced response was needed sure.
More or less yeah. Honestly I was just getting overwhelmed by too much negativity in the thread. that's BASICALLY all I meant.
I must say I am a bit surprised at the complaints regarding the gameplay. I mean Kojima gave us some of the most diverse ways to tackle a mission in a game after a long long time. Seeing this level of detail and the amount of both combat and stealth options, I am amazed anyone can find faults in its moment to moment gameplay. I think most of the people here who are having problem with the fulton are also paying too much attention to the end ranking.
Yes you can crawl up to a tank and fulton it. But you can replay that specific side op or go to an outpost and try out a different strategy with your own made up objectives. Something like - "this time I will infiltrate it without reflex mode, no alerts and no weapons. I dont care about my ranking and I will take my own sweet time but I will do it" . I just did a side op where you have to extract a couple of prisoners from the map where you meet skull face and decided to do a no alert, reflex mode run and it was super tense and super fun. The game gives you more viable options to tackle a mission than any other stealth game in history and more than any AAA game made since last gen.
I didn't neglect fultoning, I just kind of was lazy about it and made up the difference with recruits and volunteers. I always got like 6 or 7 dudes and had way too many soldiers on base anyways. Keep in mind I didn't mainline the story either and just had fun taking over bases. I kind of stopped marking 90% of the time and just captured people at random. It ended up not mattering to bother micromanaging in the end. I just sorted base by all staff each time and kept up on my deployments. I ended up not having any problem with my base. (I also had well over a hundred hours on my clock by the end because i couldn't stop doing everything constantly between missions)
Right. I agree with you.
There is a predominant negativity but I don't think it's too representative of the sentiment towards TPP as a whole. There are a lot of aspects of the game that are close to objectively positive, so the discussion tends towards the small amount of elements that are more questionably good/bad.
Barry Burton
Member
Agreed. This to me, even more so than the storytelling, was the most disappointing aspect of MGSV. I was really hoping MGSV would bring something fresh to the table as far as open-world games go, but as it turned out, was yet another "open-world for the sake of being open-world" game. I've seen a number of reviews mention how MGSV revolutionized open-world games (open world stealth in particular), but I just don't see how that conclusion gets reached. It's not like MGSV being open-world makes it a significantly worse video game, but the same game could be achieved with those "zones" you described, and not much would be lost. It would be a tighter experience overall.
legendaryskitch
Member
You know the more I play/think about this game I have to say there's one complaint that I don't see others bring up but I know it kinda bums me out...
This game is basically a sequel to Peace Walker yet almost no PW characters show up and the ones that do are vastly different especially Huey. Would've been cool to see adult Chico, Strangelove and Amanda but they figured killing half of the PW characters was better.
This game is basically a sequel to Peace Walker yet almost no PW characters show up and the ones that do are vastly different especially Huey. Would've been cool to see adult Chico, Strangelove and Amanda but they figured killing half of the PW characters was better.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Reebot said:
Look,
you used MGS3's punishment of the player for murdering soldiers as a contrast to MGSV's punishment for, what, not fultoning every soldier and going lethal?
But as it's been stated by many several, several times, you actually will be rewarded for lethal play. S ranks grant you much more GMP and are easier to achieve with a lethal approach. And while you won't net the same benefits as someone who goes pure stealth and does not kill anyone, the game isn't crippled by using this approach. you can kill dudes up and down and still finish the whole game, right? Just have to complete the objectives.
Or is it not possible to finish the game this way?
because if you can, then that's kinda the whole point: you can play this style and complete the game, much in the same way you can be a murderous thug in MGS3 and still finish it, just with a bit more river walking in the process. But hey, that probably means you got to that river section a lot sooner than the stealth guy, right?
To make a crap analogy like you did before with that whole push up on the joystick nonsense: You can finish Super Mario Bros without needing to use a mushroom, you can finish MGSV without leaning on the fulton shit and being a pacifist. Your experience with the systems in MGSV is a lot of weighing the pros and cons to your approach to its mechanics and going from there.
Dick Justice
Banned
Gonna need a source on that.
Punished_Snake
Member
I don't know if this video has been posted here or not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-EPoAdCwhM
This is a creative way to finish the mission, this video shows the freedom MGS V offer to the player.
Regarding GOTY, I loved The witcher 3 and Bloodborne. I have platinumed Bloodborne, but I didn't play it after I got the platinum. The PvP is disappointing, covenants are underdeveloped and useless, no weapons variety and the not so great chalice dungeons kept me away from the game.
Also, I stopped playing the Wither 3 after finishing it (maybe after 130 hours). The game overuse the Witcher senses and the combat got stale. There was nothing that encouraged me to continue playing after the credits. But, I will come back to both games when their expansions get released.
Overall, I'm enjoying my experience with MGS V more than my Bloodborne and Witcher 3 experiences and I'm still playing MGS V (after 162 hours).
I have played and beat Quiet extreme mission today, and that fight is x100 more intense and fun than the first time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-EPoAdCwhM
This is a creative way to finish the mission, this video shows the freedom MGS V offer to the player.
Regarding GOTY, I loved The witcher 3 and Bloodborne. I have platinumed Bloodborne, but I didn't play it after I got the platinum. The PvP is disappointing, covenants are underdeveloped and useless, no weapons variety and the not so great chalice dungeons kept me away from the game.
Also, I stopped playing the Wither 3 after finishing it (maybe after 130 hours). The game overuse the Witcher senses and the combat got stale. There was nothing that encouraged me to continue playing after the credits. But, I will come back to both games when their expansions get released.
Overall, I'm enjoying my experience with MGS V more than my Bloodborne and Witcher 3 experiences and I'm still playing MGS V (after 162 hours).
I have played and beat Quiet extreme mission today, and that fight is x100 more intense and fun than the first time.
Video is goat. Specially since the smoke doesn't catch up so it just looks like he is driving through not getting spotted. hahahaha. so good.
So I'm pretty content with the ending, I even had some problems with inconsistencies then the tapes you unlock after beating the game pretty much cleared those up for me.
Miller's statements at the end feel pretty unclear, but I feel it's because there's a lot of lack of context for that because if there was going to be a chapter 3 I'm sure it would've delved into more of that. The cut content is a shame and I'm sure there's so much more that was cut that we'll never see. I hope someone eventually goes and gets the full story whenever NDAs expire.
Miller's statements at the end feel pretty unclear, but I feel it's because there's a lot of lack of context for that because if there was going to be a chapter 3 I'm sure it would've delved into more of that. The cut content is a shame and I'm sure there's so much more that was cut that we'll never see. I hope someone eventually goes and gets the full story whenever NDAs expire.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Considering how badly Kojima handled Quiet on her own, I cannot imagine how terribly he would handle a trans character.
I bet 100% of his research would be from TV shows.
You can actually skip the whole thing, just take the fake death pill as soon as The Sorrow cutscene is over.
But you very rarely, if ever, are forced to spend much time at all in the empty spaces of the open world. The main missions are the meat of the game (I think most of us agree that the side ops are mediocre at best), and these main missions work virtually the same way that Ground Zeroes did. They put you in a given area and cut it off from the rest of the open world, drastically cutting down on the tedium of having to navigate the admittedly boring areas of the open world. I'm replaying the game right now on a new save file, and I'm not ever being forced to travel long distances to get to the objectives. What little of that there is, is just enough to set up the mood and to establish the idea of having to get to the objective on my own.
As far as the fulton discussion goes, I mostly agree with all of you who say that it's a bad game mechanic. I was fortunate enough to get the wormhole way after finishing the main missions, but even without it, it's just bad game design. I'm doing a playthrough now forcing myself only to use fulton when it would be way too tedious not to, and the game gets so much better. It's really properly balanced to be played most of the time without fulton, so I really recommend everyone to play this way, but I understand and agree with the notion that players handicapping themselves doesn't make up for bad game design.
With that said, I don't think fulton is as broken as some make it out to be. Guards notice it and alert the whole base if you use it with no regard whatsoever, and if you still haven't unlocked the wormhole, they get better at shooting them down if you abuse this playstyle. Regarding the wormhole itself and the overall broken equipment that you get at the end game, I recommend you guys to make a back up of your save file and start a brand new one. Shit is so much better when you're limited to the equipment that you start the game with. Also, it's a personal nitpick of mine, but I hate hate hate the ugly sped up animations for dashing, reloading and crawling when you have your bionic arm all leveled up. Starting from scratch looks and feels so much freaking better in that regard.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Damn right on this point.
You should really avoid stupid generalizations. I thought the story was crappy, but given that I only glossed over the other games, that's not why I bought MGSV. I got it because of the praise the gameplay got. I rathe enjoyed myself for most of my 60 hours in game. And now, post-game, I have some serious critiques of the game.
Everyone needs to grow up and learn to think critically about things they enjoy.
That to me is a problem. The game never really gets harder or smarter as you get better tools. You just get increasingly more overpowered tools and the AI stays doing generally the same idiotic thing it was at the beginning, except now it's wearing a helmet or night-vision goggles!
Ooooooh. So adaptive! So meaningful!
ShockingAlberto
Member
I think Afghanistan was a good opening area for a dozen or so missions. It's open, but clearly gated so you can't just move freely. You pretty much have to follow the roads or it will take far longer to get anywhere, which makes it a more interesting place to take on vehicles by going ahead of them.
The problem is that it's not an opening area, it's half the game. And it's half the game because the game isn't finished.
The problem is that it's not an opening area, it's half the game. And it's half the game because the game isn't finished.
No, you won't. You literally won't. This is not a debatable point.
The very next sentence talks about S ranks which are more easily achieved non-lethally since that grants a point bonus.
You're flailing at this point, desperate to stand on something.
Lostconfused
Member
The very first mission in Afghanistan is one of the best moments of the game. Just the implications of the freedom you have, the possibilities, the visual vista. It's one of the better gaming moments. It probably works even better because of protracted Hospital level.
i got your back
enjoying the game is not the same as pointing out its flaws, and it doesn't take away any of the merits the game deserves. But we should be honest. The game is not a 10/10. not even close.
Yes but you can get a much better time with lethal play, meaning that you can supersede the point bonus by playing in a faster way, especially if you also don't get spotted (smoke grenades every day) Because you can attain the same goal in several ways, there is no absolute correct answer, only several truths. They do not conflict with one another in this game. The design is sound. (A quick example is just Liam's playthrough on 2BF, he's gunjumping harder than I did on my game, and he's still getting S ranks, even.)
Sorry guys. I know this has been discussed 100 times. I tried to find the answers here but it just to many pages :/
Q: Venom Snake. He didnt know that he was big boss right? But how did he get as good as BB?
Who else knew he wasn't BB?
Ishmael was BB? Venom is medic from GZ? The one in the chopper?
Dos he look like BB? Or is it just another hallucination?
Who's idea was to put this poor man into this delimma and why?
Appreciate it guys
Q: Venom Snake. He didnt know that he was big boss right? But how did he get as good as BB?
Who else knew he wasn't BB?
Ishmael was BB? Venom is medic from GZ? The one in the chopper?
Dos he look like BB? Or is it just another hallucination?
Who's idea was to put this poor man into this delimma and why?
Appreciate it guys
Unknown One
Member
The mechanics are wasted as well since there is no proper boss fights and the A.I stays the same as you get more powerful weaponry. The difficulty was not balanced for Fulton, tranq snipers, and the open world aspect just made it even worst. The reason why I said the open world aspect hurts the difficulty is because the amount of soldiers in the area is capped because of it. Every outpost/base only has so much soldiers. If more came, it'll be by trunk and that takes a while. You can literally outgun an army in this game and get away with it or just supply drop a tank to destroy an army. There isn't much emphasis put into stealth as you can destroy everything in sight. That fact is made worst by the fact that you could S rank a mission just by blazing through it, even if you are spotted.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
oh okay so you respond with something that barely puts my first sentence or so in doubt but the rest is ignored.
for someone who used a lot of words to put someone down earlier your rebuttal is incredibly selective and brief when convenient
ah, yes, i spent so much time refuting his point about river walking that i forgot that the game lets you skip the entire thing regardless of your bloodthirst
ShockingAlberto
Member
Yeah, being told "Hey, handle this how you want" was such a great, almost overwhelming feeling.
Granted, more often than not, this meant "Go in from the left or the right" to me, but I still enjoyed that aspect a lot. Those times where everything just clicks, like in this video I took where a jeep passed by while I was scouting a mission and I decided to make use of it, make it all worth it to me.
Think about this. You have put 60 hours in a game. So it is obvious you enjoyed it. Your issues are post game which ideally should not be a flaw. Also regarding the other part of your comment which I bolded Is there any stealth game currently in the market which gives you these many tools to complete a mission and yet has the AI doing things increasingly differently 60 hours into a game.
To levy this criticism on MGSV surely means that such a precedent has been set by other stealth games?
Sorry guys. I know this has been discussed 100 times. I tried to find the answers here but it just to many pages :/
Q: Venom Snake. He didnt know that he was big boss right? But how did he get as good as BB?
Who else knew he wasn't BB?
Ishmael was BB? Venom is medic from GZ? The one in the chopper?
Dos he look like BB? Or is it just another hallucination?
Who's idea was to put this poor man into this delimma and why?
Appreciate it guys
He's as good as big boss because he's "supposed to be" one of your best soldiers from Peace Walker, most of which should be well above Big Boss in combat ability.
I'm actually planning on picking my favorite MSF soldier after I beat this run of PW, and recreate his face and use his name on my Venom Snake when I replay V afterwards.
Actually, they adapt further depending on what tactics you use. because I was constantly playing lethally, they eventually started using blast suits that block all bullet fire on vital body points. I had to hit them with multiple grenades to knock the armor off, or cqc them. (I'm curious if they develop a CQC counter at some point, like the scouts in peace walker or frogs in mgs4 had)
Also, their ai behavior changes slightly as well. I've heard that they become more alert to grenades the more you use them, and sometimes one soldier will dive ontop of it to contain the blast while sacrificing himself. I don't think I saw it with live grenades, but I saw dudes dive ontop of smoke grenades sometimes. didn't work. ;p
Hellwarden
Member
Huh, Quiet is Chico debate...
*imagines if Quiet was set to somehow return in Chapter 3*
Chico/Quiet-"I didn't fall in love you Boss. I fell in love with the tiny 30 year old little girl I associate with you."
Venom/BB-"...."
And then Sins of the Father starts playing.
*imagines if Quiet was set to somehow return in Chapter 3*
Chico/Quiet-"I didn't fall in love you Boss. I fell in love with the tiny 30 year old little girl I associate with you."
Venom/BB-"...."
And then Sins of the Father starts playing.
I agree with your analogy, but don't you see how that can be negative to an experience? Using a mushroom in Mario and playing without leaning on the Fulton in MGSV are punishing yourself, both are counter to what the game and the way its designed suggests you do.
I don't think anyone's saying you don't have any options, just that you have to actively decide to act counter to a 'default' option (Fultoning, and thus a focus on non-lethality). What that does, in somewhat of a subtle way, is reduce your options; it isn't a case of 'What will I do?' and more of a case of ' Will I decide to not do the default?'.
Ideally there would be no element that you'd have to stop yourself from leaning on. All of the options should feel equally valid.
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