He is not wrong. I did mission 16 in 2 minutes lethally and got an S rank. I did it non leathally first time and got A because it takes longer.
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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He is not wrong. I did mission 16 in 2 minutes lethally and got an S rank. I did it non leathally first time and got A because it takes longer.
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Wait, people are arguing that a lethal playstyle is not viable? I did my first playthrough without reflex mode and hardly ever with tranquilizer weapons. I triggered alarms left and right, leaving countless bodies behind me (although still fultoning a shitload of people, mainly those who I managed to CQC). I had no problem whatsoever neither advancing through the missions nor leveling up mother base. Hell, if anything, I'd argue that the lethal approach is the easier one if you're playing without reflex.
Are we talking here about playing in a loud, guns blazing kind of way, or about playing stealthily, only with lethal (suppressed) weapons? Because if it's the former, then you are 100% wrong. Previous games in the series threw an unlimited amount of enemies at you until you managed to hide and the enemies leveled down their alert level. In MGSV you can literally kill every single soul in any and all outposts of the game, and it's a valid way of completing any mission. Hell, they purposefully added the ability to destroy the radio equipment in every outpost in order to prevent outposts from receiving any kind of backup (which wouldn't be unlimited like in previous games in the series anyway).
EDIT: Oh and yeah, getting S ranks with lethal means is easy peachy. The no-kill bonus is nothing next to what you get for headshots (1000 points each), let alone for getting through missions faster.
Are we talking here about playing in a loud, guns blazing kind of way, or about playing stealthily, only with lethal (suppressed) weapons? Because if it's the former, then you are 100% wrong. Previous games in the series threw an unlimited amount of enemies at you until you managed to hide and the enemies leveled down their alert level. In MGSV you can literally kill every single soul in any and all outposts of the game, and it's a valid way of completing any mission. Hell, they purposefully added the ability to destroy the radio equipment in every outpost in order to prevent outposts from receiving any kind of backup (which wouldn't be unlimited like in previous games in the series anyway).
EDIT: Oh and yeah, getting S ranks with lethal means is easy peachy. The no-kill bonus is nothing next to what you get for headshots (1000 points each), let alone for getting through missions faster.
Sorry guys. I know this has been discussed 100 times. I tried to find the answers here but it just to many pages :/
Q: Venom Snake. He didnt know that he was big boss right? But how did he get as good as BB?
Who else knew he wasn't BB?
Ishmael was BB? Venom is medic from GZ? The one in the chopper?
Dos he look like BB? Or is it just another hallucination?
Who's idea was to put this poor man into this delimma and why?
Appreciate it guys
Someone correct me if i am wrong.
Q: Venom Snake. He didnt know that he was big boss right? But how did he get as good as BB?
He didn't know. He got good through hypnosis?
Who else knew he wasn't BB?
Kaz and Ocellit knew. Even tho they said they would not remember.
Ishmael was BB? Venom is medic from GZ? The one in the chopper?
Ishmael is BB yes. Venom is the medic from GZ, yes. The one in the chopper, the one that gets between BB and the explosion, and the third body that is looking at Kaz and BB in the cutscene ending of GZ. When kaz asks.. "What about him?"
Dos he look like BB? Or is it just another hallucination?
He looks like your avatar. But goes through surgery to be made look like BB.
Who's idea was to put this poor man into this delimma and why?
Zero i think? Ocellit talks to BB about how he is in danger and they have a decoy to help out with that.
Someone call me out if i got something wrong.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Sorry guys. I know this has been discussed 100 times. I tried to find the answers here but it just to many pages :/
Q: Venom Snake. He didnt know that he was big boss right? But how did he get as good as BB?
Who else knew he wasn't BB?
Ishmael was BB? Venom is medic from GZ? The one in the chopper?
Dos he look like BB? Or is it just another hallucination?
Who's idea was to put this poor man into this delimma and why?
Appreciate it guys
1. He didn't know until later. He was Big Boss' top soldier, so Big Boss trained him personally. The rest was just Ocelot hypnotizing him to convince him he was a legendary soldier, but he already had the skills.
2. Ocelot and Big Boss knew. We're never explicitly told, but it's probable the people hanging out with Big Boss knew the Diamond Dogs Big Boss, Venom, was fake. So presumably EVA. Zero knew but he was a vegetable by the time they woke up.
3. Yes to all three.
4. He was given plastic surgery to look like BB. Which is hilarious if your character wasn't white.
5. It was Zero's idea to protect Big Boss. Big Boss used it as an opportunity for himself to stay hidden while he gets his Zanzibarland project up and running.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
In that sense i agree. the game allows for many approaches but there are paths that appear to provide less resistance. but the argument that there is only one valid path is one that irks me. That all paths should be equally as rewarding is something that needed work butttttttttttttt that doesn't mean that the game is not doable by going against the supposed grain. It's quite doable in fact.
It's at the bottom of the last page so it's worth repeating, but Medic is "supposed to be" one of your best soldiers from Peace Walker. Those guys get better stats than Snake by the end, so it makes sense. (And as I said, I like the idea of recreating my favorite MSF soldier as my Venom snake in my second playthrough, down to the codename)
I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure I had a guy feign like he didn't know I was creeping at his back and when I went to grab him, instantly swung a knife and disrupted my CQC grab.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I think there should have been a few more situations where you have to stealth it or you have to gun it.
They have a few of these but they mostly just punish you for having developed one way or another. The Huey mission, where you can't enter unless the alarm is off, is a good one. The only other way to handle it is to kill everyone, which is difficult with all the D-Walkers around and it's a pretty big place, besides,
Mission 45 is a terrible way to do it, where you're in for a lot of hoping and praying if you didn't develop a better rocket launcher.
They have a few of these but they mostly just punish you for having developed one way or another. The Huey mission, where you can't enter unless the alarm is off, is a good one. The only other way to handle it is to kill everyone, which is difficult with all the D-Walkers around and it's a pretty big place, besides,
Mission 45 is a terrible way to do it, where you're in for a lot of hoping and praying if you didn't develop a better rocket launcher.
It is, but I found I had to work against what I felt was the 'correct' way to be playing, which is a flaw in the design (IMO). The Fulton was probably the main aspect to sticking to playing non-lethally for a large amount of the game, and that excluded the use of a lot of items that just didn't seem like an option. Without the Fulton I think the balance between choosing to play lethally, or not, would have been better.
But that could be due to the way I played. I felt like Fultoning was important. The game made me feel like it was. Maybe playing through the game without so much of an emphasis on Fultoning was closer to the intended style, but the game didn't communicate that.
It was in the Side-Ops and missions, mostly after Chapter 1, that I started to feel comfortable using the full scope of the options available to me.
I've had people do that with hold ups. Shields can also block CQC to some degree if they're aware of you.
The one really baffling thing about the way the game handles difficulty is the single difficulty level even though GZ had two. Heck, it's especially bad because even if they didn't have time to go through QA for extra AI variables, the game still has built-in measures they could have used. There are MANY ways outposts adapt to how you play, not just the ones everybody gets like helmets or gas masks but also mines in advantageous positions, reacting much faster to fulton/Snake sightings or placing snipers around, each of them with four possible levels of intensity.
Why the game didn't a Hard mode with 50% intensity as the lowest possible and Extreme with permanent 100% is beyond me. Perhaps one day with mods..
Why the game didn't a Hard mode with 50% intensity as the lowest possible and Extreme with permanent 100% is beyond me. Perhaps one day with mods..
It would've been nice to have the addition for each mission to have Extreme where its gameover if you get caught. AND subsistence where you have no equipment available.
Oldest Snake
Member
Subsistence/Extreme/True Stealth were probably meant to be deployment options for all applicable missions before they rushed the game to a September release.
Thanks a lot guys. I really appreciate.
But wasn't zero he's enemy? Eva its not mentioned here right?
Kevin Shields
Member
Dude I can get S ranks lethally in half the time I can by stealthing. That's a plus to some people despite the bonus points.
SnakeLinkSonic
Member
I'm in a similar boat. Even with FOB I'm at the point where I only really enjoy defending allies' (and my own) bases, so it's just a matter of sitting in the helicopter until someone decides to invade.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Re: WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO scene.
That guy running out of dodge.... the frightened sounds are hilarious.
That entire scene is the best. So many hilarious things going on.
That guy running out of dodge.... the frightened sounds are hilarious.
That entire scene is the best. So many hilarious things going on.
It's so bad in a hilarious way, and even funnier when you remember the jeep ride happens right before it.
Ah I might try that actually, I forgot you can protect your friends bases.
Messypandas
Member
Someone do a version with Kaz and a cheeseburger
Yeah, this is perhaps the worst thing to come out of the development hell stuff. There are just enough modified missions to give you a gleam of their full potential but not enough to actually fulfill it. Unfortunate.
Oh man, I keep forgetting that.
His plan goes to shit right after he's so confident about realizing it.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Oh man now I'm imagining that song making moments more awkward.
Specifically Huey walking in on his son and his wife. They stop. Music plays. Emma gets dunked underwater and develops shitty NPC syndrome
ShockingAlberto
Member
The jeep ride is more and more puzzling to me every time I think about it.
Because this is the sequence of events
- Snake goes to extract Huey, sees Sahelanthropus in the cave behind the power plant, then later escapes from it near a Soviet base.
- Snake goes to Africa to investigate D-Walkers because they figure it will lead them to Sahelanthropus.
- Snake discovers that Sahelanthropus is in Afghanistan.
- They go to Skullface's base, OKB-0, to find Sahelanthropus.
- Skullface takes them on a jeep ride to...the same place you saw Sahelanthropus before.
WHY WOULD THAT NOT BE THE FIRST PLACE YOU CHECK
I imagine the reason for this, and the jeep ride, were because they had grander plans for that scene but decided to reuse somewhere they already knew the model fit because of time constraints. But I'm getting a little annoyed having to internally answer every "Why?" question with "Because the game wasn't finished."
Because this is the sequence of events
- Snake goes to extract Huey, sees Sahelanthropus in the cave behind the power plant, then later escapes from it near a Soviet base.
- Snake goes to Africa to investigate D-Walkers because they figure it will lead them to Sahelanthropus.
- Snake discovers that Sahelanthropus is in Afghanistan.
- They go to Skullface's base, OKB-0, to find Sahelanthropus.
- Skullface takes them on a jeep ride to...the same place you saw Sahelanthropus before.
WHY WOULD THAT NOT BE THE FIRST PLACE YOU CHECK
I imagine the reason for this, and the jeep ride, were because they had grander plans for that scene but decided to reuse somewhere they already knew the model fit because of time constraints. But I'm getting a little annoyed having to internally answer every "Why?" question with "Because the game wasn't finished."
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Then, after it, there's that cheeky appearance by Skull Face on Mother Base just to remind you that you are already a demon who saves animals and prevents the destruction of the world.
"Since my plan can't possibly fail, allow me to tell you my plan. Please save all questions to the end."
THE SINS NEVER DIE....
SnakeLinkSonic
Member
Yeah, I just randomly allied myself with like thirty random people in the Relationships menu. The idea was refreshing until I actually found someone on my friends list but I got sick of doing that fast.
I also like how the catalyst for his plan going to shit isn't because of the people actively working against him for the revengggge, it's because Liquid was sitting in the damn helicopter being a little shithead.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
He hid it right under their noses.
DAMN IT, INTEL TEAM! YOU COULD HAVE PREVENTED THIS!
Also, let's be honest, no one would have thought Skull Face would be insane enough to leave the thing where you already found it.
I just can't get that jeep ride out of my head. If that becomes the most memorable scene for me I'm going to cry.
Lmao, when put like that it sounds so nonsensical.
Lmao, when put like that it sounds so nonsensical.
Dick Justice
Banned
Looking back, wasn't Operation Snake Eater declassified by the time of MGS4? I recall it being mentioned. Wouldn't that go against what EVA said at the end of 3, that no one would ever know what The Boss did, and that she'd go down in history as a war criminal? Or was that part left out of the declassification?
Did not know the bolded actually, completely missed that for some reason. But after reading your post and thinking it over, the game does give fair job on giving you some incentives if you want to go "guns blazing" and in some missions even favorably ranks you for doing so. I just got really snowed in on the whole fame and demon points stat you get if you do go lethally, as I said, the risk of getting the demon version is enough for me to stray from lethal weapons lol
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
They weren't going after Sally, they were gunning straight for SkullFace for REVENGE. He just chooses to take you all the way back to Sally because thats his cartoonish villain protocol.
Messypandas
Member
Not to disagree, but wasn't the mission to wipe out Skullface? I thought there was whole hoo-raa we're going to kill Skullface and wipe his existence off the face of the planet before hand scene.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I don't think that's what the criticism means at all. But to address this point, I can't really say much about precedents with stealth games because I don't play them often. I have some old-ass Splinter Cell games on my shelf and that's about it. Although I seem to remember games like Blacklist being pretty challenging, but maybe that was because I was younger.
My criticism/complaint is a two-part critique that I have not just towards MGSV, but towards many, if not most games. And that is first of all, the the horrid state that AI is currently in. It's not improving and it might not for some time. Second, the difficulty curves in games, where we start with great balance, and then by the 1/2 or 2/3 point, everything becomes easy as shit. In MGSV, the first 10 hours were rewarding, tense and full of risk/reward measurements. By about 20 some-odd hours in, everything was easy as shit. Same thing happened to me playing TW3 earlier this year. By about 50 hours in (half my playtime), the game was stupidly easy, even playing on Blood and Broken Bones. I guess some people enjoy power trips, but I like to be challenged in games. I like a sense of accomplishment, and MGSV left me with none of that.
I don't think anything I'm thinking of is really that revolutionary though, in terms of AI scripting, even within stealth games. Some more CCTV cameras. More randomized patrols. More helicopter scoutings. More persistent base searches when the enemy is alerted to my position. A real manhunt doesn't end in like a few minutes, they should search you out actively until they find you or actually secure the entire building or base. Maybe more base modifications, like added barricades and such. Less deaf guards (I can fulton a tank while a guard is standing 20 meters away, really?) Less static placement of guards and weapon points since I quickly became bored because of the repetition of those placements. I mean, want to be really ambitious? How about enemies that have some more "dynamic" traits such as cowardice, cautious, reckless, etc. rather than just copy-pasted same-y enemies?
Unfortunately, my complaint will really never be addressed. The average consumer is way, way more interested in "all dem gwaphics" than being challenged consistently.
I'm pretty sure we can safely assume that would be left out.
Why would the patriots want to declassify the conspiracy that pretty much was their inception?
ShockingAlberto
Member
The objective had two parts, Skullface and Sahelanthropus.
When you approach Skullface, Miller tells you not to kill him and to wait until he shows you where Sahelanthropus so you can destroy it.
When you approach Skullface, Miller tells you not to kill him and to wait until he shows you where Sahelanthropus so you can destroy it.
I talked about these before, and made suggestions on how things should engage you instead of you always looking for the game to engage you.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178929548&postcount=5269
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=178931144&postcount=12439
I don't think its ambitious... its just directing resources to the things that make more impact to the game overall, instead of having things that we can do without. Exmaples... FOB and online, Zoo, most of Motherbase.
The graph for this game challenge and gameplay should always be a steep ramp. Kinda like the souls games or dragons dogma... always challenging... easy to play but hard to master... and when you overcome a challenge... it feels darn good.
DamonForever
Member
The complaint about Fultons resonates with me. I actively played more non-lethally because it meant getting more people into MB. It's even weirder because no base ever got alarmed or heightened their security in response to it. Weird.
But this got me thinking. What happens if you dismiss everyone in MB before the parasites start attacking? Very few people are locked at base, and most of those don't get infected anyway. Can you just avoid both outbreaks? Or does the game not start the mission until you have enough people on base?
But this got me thinking. What happens if you dismiss everyone in MB before the parasites start attacking? Very few people are locked at base, and most of those don't get infected anyway. Can you just avoid both outbreaks? Or does the game not start the mission until you have enough people on base?
Yeah, it's stupider the more I think about it. It's pretty difficult to move a robot like this without causing a lot of ruckus and even if attempted - MB got a goddamn intel team, just put a few men on watch around the base. They don't even have to be that close. Just around it, there are not that many ways the thing could be moved.
Btw. it would be funny if you could actually would drive over the open world. Just imagine how funny it would be to break the sequence with some prepared mines on the street.
Btw. it would be funny if you could actually would drive over the open world. Just imagine how funny it would be to break the sequence with some prepared mines on the street.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
At some point, people need to actually understand the story before they critique it. Skull Face was always the main objective, Sahelanthropus was definitely the lesser priority to Diamond Dogs.
Mr. Smiley
Member
Leather jacket, aka the goat sneak suit, still has a white hand even if your Medic is, say, black.
And I say why
why you gotta do that the best outfit
But, as I was saying earlier, the enemy difficulty mitigation is up to you. Also, if you play like I did and shotgun people/use grenades flagrantly, they just get re-armored again after you break their supply lines anyways. If I played all tranq I would have only needed to worry about nightvision, gas masks, and helmets. Their weapons and armor substantially increases when you use more dangerous weapons. It's a brilliant system I find. (Also yeah now that that other guy mentioned it, I do remember dudes started bringing knives to combat my cqc. I just shot them once before throwing them to stun them after that. Works like a charm!)
tldr: I didn't look for engagement gimmicks, I just played using the weapons I liked and it lead to guys going right back to full riot gear less than an hour after breaking supply lines to their equipment anyways. The game adapted to my playstyle and made itself more difficult to match my lethality. It perfectly adapted and I didn't have to "force" anything. Shotguns and Grenades are just my favorite weapons.
I that case they could've just air striked the shit out of the base. They specifically tell Snake to hold on so Skullface would show him where Sally is.
Pretty much how we all feel.
Seriously. Day by day the plot of this game becomes a bigger joke. It doesn't even hold up to one playthrough and under even the smallest bit of scrutiny, collapses like a house of cards. It's really sad but also hilarious.
Like "oh hey guys he was there all along! Whaddya know!?"
They just wrote themselves into so many corners. Like why not just air strike the whole base that Skull Face is in? In most games they would fall back on "plausible deniability" and politics but if Diamond Dogs is free of trust, then what does it matter? And why not just shoot him with a sniper rifle since it's just in the middle of the desert? Or have Diamond Dogs intercept the convoy Snake is on during the infamously long car ride. It's just another thing that makes no sense and that they don't even bother to excuse with even a minor remark.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
Air striking the base isn't a guaranteed way to kill Skull Face, and it's not like Mother base has the capability to deploy a massive strike on an entire base.
BizzyBum
Member
Yeah, I feel that's the main reason people are pissed. People went in thinking they were going to play as Big Boss and uncover the reasons he turns evil. Granted, the no name medic wasn't a scrub according to BB, saying along the lines of being the best solider he's ever seen when talking to Ocelot or something like that
It basically comes down to BB not being as legendary as we thought. Yeah, he was bad ass in 3, but after that not so much. He's practically MIA for decades trying to build a new Outer Heaven, gets beat by his clone in MG2, and is basically asleep until Snake destroys JD in 4.
Kojima turns him into a fraud, and that doesn't sit well with people.
Grinchy
Banned
I can't believe the piece of shit that they give you for that mission. Even if you have a leveled up GROM, they hand you an unleveled version that sucks. So you basically have to start the mission by ordering your real one. And even then, the mission just isn't fun.
The way I understand the chain of events:Sorry guys. I know this has been discussed 100 times. I tried to find the answers here but it just to many pages :/
Q: Venom Snake. He didnt know that he was big boss right? But how did he get as good as BB?
Who else knew he wasn't BB?
Ishmael was BB? Venom is medic from GZ? The one in the chopper?
Dos he look like BB? Or is it just another hallucination?
Who's idea was to put this poor man into this delimma and why?
Appreciate it guys
Skull Face tries to assassinate Zero, nearly kills him, Zero knows he's about to no longer be able to do anything and so gets around to setting up the Patriots AI system with the help of Strangelove to take over when he enters that semi-cognizant state (think Tuco's grandpa from Breaking Bad) and then Zero offers to put Big Boss in hiding after he learned of Skull Face's attack on Big Boss. Ocelot, Miller and Big Boss are in on the body double project, but Ocelot hypnotizes himself so that he won't remember about the project. So the only people that actively remember are Miller, Big Boss and Zero.
My interpretation of the scene where he smashes the mirror and you see Big Boss either he sees himself visually (a hallucination, as you said) as Big Boss or they found a surgeon skilled enough to take the sharpnel out without damaging anything.
oh welp, didn't see it was from last page. whatever
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