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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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You cannot seriously blame MGS5's plot on Konami. It'd be really weird if a Konami exec just fired a memo to Kojima saying "ok we approve this second budget raise and delay, but only if you make the game character another dude impersonating Big Boss".
Konami obvs fucked with the game, but in a world where Konami just acquiesced to every Kojima wish, we'd still have the plot we got.
The evidence is, the mission cut is even more irrelevant than the whole game to the overall plot. If you think Konami cut more missions that would have somehow fixed the game plot and place in the saga, well, it's time to go start digging for hard evidence.
Konami obvs fucked with the game, but in a world where Konami just acquiesced to every Kojima wish, we'd still have the plot we got.
The evidence is, the mission cut is even more irrelevant than the whole game to the overall plot. If you think Konami cut more missions that would have somehow fixed the game plot and place in the saga, well, it's time to go start digging for hard evidence.
Graphics Horse
Member
Fucking Huey. Give him an R&D dept as big as Big Shell and he can only build a total of 2 vehicles, one your not allowed to use, and leaves you to steal the rest yourself.
Dynasty8
Member
This game is no GOTY.
It truly is incomplete and forced. Even Kojima and Konami mentioned that this was going to be the final chapter that answers why BB became the greatest villain in the series.... That was bullshit. That twist was one of the worst I've ever seen in any game/story. It's not even just the twist....Chapter 2 had like 8 recycled missions and 3 new missions. The pacing was totally off and Kojima made some bad decisions...no one wanted to see intros with spoilers for every single mission. I don't think anyone wanted to see credits roll after every mission was done.
And that sorry excuse of a story....wow! They left so much out...they didn't explain so many crucial things...Volgin aka The Man on Fire was just forgotten about once his identity was revealed. We didn't see what happened with Eva, the Patriots....what happened afterwards with the real Big Boss.... Also, Ocelot, for the first time in MGS, was a monotone encyclopedia with no interesting trait. I think we were expecting nice story scenes like MGS4...not sitting somewhere for hours listening to cassette tapes.
What I don't get is that people bitched and complained about Mass Effect 3's ending...I thought that the original ME3 ending and story kills anything plot related in The Phantom Pain.
It truly is incomplete and forced. Even Kojima and Konami mentioned that this was going to be the final chapter that answers why BB became the greatest villain in the series.... That was bullshit. That twist was one of the worst I've ever seen in any game/story. It's not even just the twist....Chapter 2 had like 8 recycled missions and 3 new missions. The pacing was totally off and Kojima made some bad decisions...no one wanted to see intros with spoilers for every single mission. I don't think anyone wanted to see credits roll after every mission was done.
And that sorry excuse of a story....wow! They left so much out...they didn't explain so many crucial things...Volgin aka The Man on Fire was just forgotten about once his identity was revealed. We didn't see what happened with Eva, the Patriots....what happened afterwards with the real Big Boss.... Also, Ocelot, for the first time in MGS, was a monotone encyclopedia with no interesting trait. I think we were expecting nice story scenes like MGS4...not sitting somewhere for hours listening to cassette tapes.
What I don't get is that people bitched and complained about Mass Effect 3's ending...I thought that the original ME3 ending and story kills anything plot related in The Phantom Pain.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
you know what would've been a better twist?
If you had been playing as Kaz the whole game and BB was just his Tyler Durden.
It would work, too, since he lost the arm and it would explain why venom doesn't really talk. It also would've been strongly hinted at by the Paz side story and would further explain why he was so paranoid all game because he was a crazy person. He could rock the robot arm just fine and you can say that he got a hold of huey's leg tech for walking around. I mean it's not like the game makes a lot of sense, you upgrade your arm and you can run faster and what the hell how does that even work right? Or not even have Kaz lose a leg at all so he shares the same injuries as his tyler durden BB does.
you could even write the V part off as V for Vision, for the vision he has for his own outer heaven as he can't let the idea go. And given that Big Boss was his ultimate senpai it would make sense that he was always seeing visions of him. and the twist would've worked, it would've been better than rando medic being a big boss cosplayer.
If you had been playing as Kaz the whole game and BB was just his Tyler Durden.
It would work, too, since he lost the arm and it would explain why venom doesn't really talk. It also would've been strongly hinted at by the Paz side story and would further explain why he was so paranoid all game because he was a crazy person. He could rock the robot arm just fine and you can say that he got a hold of huey's leg tech for walking around. I mean it's not like the game makes a lot of sense, you upgrade your arm and you can run faster and what the hell how does that even work right? Or not even have Kaz lose a leg at all so he shares the same injuries as his tyler durden BB does.
you could even write the V part off as V for Vision, for the vision he has for his own outer heaven as he can't let the idea go. And given that Big Boss was his ultimate senpai it would make sense that he was always seeing visions of him. and the twist would've worked, it would've been better than rando medic being a big boss cosplayer.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Volgin just sort of gave up when he realized you're not Big Boss.
Without that revenge lust, he had nothing keeping him alive.
Without that revenge lust, he had nothing keeping him alive.
The blame on Konami is deserved. Konami allowing Kojima to finish wouldn't have changed to twist or the plot, it merely would have completed it. I don't think it takes a stretch of the imagination to seen how much more satisfying a complete story and game would be compared to the incomplete scraps tied together that we got.
The twist I would have went for is sort of like that.
I would have dug if the shrapnel was removed and it was revealed that Kaz was never there. But I'd also have Kaz fight for more fucked up shit over the course of the game. So you get the shrapnel removed and lock back on your actions, and it's you, Big Boss, walking around in a trenchcoat and being an ass.
So it would turn out that Kaz was this way of Big Boss disassociating his own actions, an excuse to go ape-shit in the pursuit of revenge, but the real Kaz was never part of Diamond Dogs. Then all those scenes of Big Boss and Kaz where BB says nothing would actually be Big Boss talking.
Graphics Horse
Member
If you really wanted to upend and unite the warld and shit you could just breed and spread corrosive archaea over everything. Except it only seems to stop vehicles and not guns, somehow.
akidnamededdy
Banned
...I feel like this should've been the story that was told in MGS4, and that the stuff we got in MGS4 should've been MGSV.
In Phantom Pain (also PO and PW) we learn that Cipher is run by Zero and Para Medic and SIGINT, that Big Boss was a member but is now at odds with them, and that they pursue development of AI to run their shit due to Zero's failing health.
I think learning that stuff in Phantom Pain first would've made the plot dump in act 3 of Guns of the Patriots a lot less jarring and just plain stupid for a lot of people. Like...there was no buildup to it, just "oh yeah all those guys were responsible and now AI runs the world."
Does this make sense? I'm not sure how quite to say what I'm trying to say.
In Phantom Pain (also PO and PW) we learn that Cipher is run by Zero and Para Medic and SIGINT, that Big Boss was a member but is now at odds with them, and that they pursue development of AI to run their shit due to Zero's failing health.
I think learning that stuff in Phantom Pain first would've made the plot dump in act 3 of Guns of the Patriots a lot less jarring and just plain stupid for a lot of people. Like...there was no buildup to it, just "oh yeah all those guys were responsible and now AI runs the world."
Does this make sense? I'm not sure how quite to say what I'm trying to say.
The explanation of Volgin was one of hte all time lows of the game for me. "oh.. it was volgin all along.. he was dead.. but he came back.. and he was just angry... so yea... you can see his body in the quarantine facility... ok.. bai! toodle looo!"
I alwasy thought it would be some twisted hallucination caused by mantis... or better yet.. Big Boss demons haunting him.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
If only you could make your face look like Major Raikov and have that entire sequence play out completely differently as a result.
SUCH LUST
Graphics Horse
Member
Yes you do... I don't get why it doesn't at least support multiple save files and let you start a new game like PW did.
Much lust, such revenge, whoow.
Where is dawg these days?
Much lust, such revenge, whoow.
Where is dawg these days?
FlashbladeGAF
Member
You can blame Kojima for the twist, Quiet, nano-parasites etc.., but don't blame him for what isn't there, like better pacing, character development, threads being followed thru, when a new CEO was appointed mid way thru development with the mobile future and the extinction of Konami's legacy titles on his agenda.
With footage (found in trailers), A chapter and a half, as well as cut content existing, who knows how much more there is left on the cutting room floor. The fact that we know it exists shows that Kojima had ever intention of putting it in the game. The fact that he couldn't is his fault for going over budget, but it 's also Konami's fault for being content with releasing an unfinished product.
If you are playing on PC this is an easy fix.
The Jackdog
Member
the fact that its "revealed" its volgin in basically a tape and pre mission voice over, only to find him and he just is like....sup.....and dies....
not a single line of dialogue? nothing? he just sits in a cage? Wtf?
what. was. the. point.
not a single line of dialogue? nothing? he just sits in a cage? Wtf?
what. was. the. point.
no point. at. all.
Such lust for wasting our time. lol.
He is such a cool opportunity.. but the way it wraps up is just.. oh yea.. he was kind of an after thought... but we wanted to show the fox engine fire... so we just had him be a big part of the prologue. did you rike it guys? yea?
ShockingAlberto
Member
My theory is that Ocelot remembers Venom isn't Big Boss in Chapter 30.
After that is the "Hey, remember Volgin? We knew a guy named Volgin. Uh, go take his remains."
After that is the "Hey, remember Volgin? We knew a guy named Volgin. Uh, go take his remains."
Cut content. All of it is unfinished.
PedroPanache
Member
It's a bloody mess, in terms of story. The game has no emotional core, barely any character and much of the development time seems to have been spent just tooling around with the open world concept and then being told by Konami to quickly wrap it up and ship it. Chapter 3? No, no, no, you're done, my son. Recycle some missions and a stick a cutscene and some credits on the end. We're not funding your indulgences any more. And, no, you can't motion capture a fucking hedgehog.
I would love to here some development stories on how all this went down. For all the time it spent in development, what we got was two areas to play in and some serious padding. Sure, it's a better game than all the other MGS games, but it's an underdeveloped mess in so many ways.
lol. i would not back it up.
they would prbly change their mind after its funded and make it into a pachinko anthology of MGS.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Youre konami and you know that the ceiling for a MGS game in sales is about 5 million sales more or less. the game has been in development for 5 years and Kojima is asking for even more money and time to keep making the game.
Knowing that you're likely to sell the same amount of copies regardless of what Kojima does and that he wants another 1-2 years of costly development for a project at a time when youre transitioning to mobile gaming and abandoning AAA development...Do you just release the 50-80 hours of gameplay now and start making a return on your investment or do you give the man with a history of mismanaging video game productions more time and money knowing that the likelihood that youre not going to sell more copies by giving into his requests and that you might take losses instead?
Kojima was given a longer leash than just about anyone else in video gaming. You can't blame kojima for aspiring to make the ultimate metal gear game but you can't fault konami for being sensible about how this was going either
The content we know was cut does not fix the plot or char development much.
So if you think the mysterious cut content we don't know about actually fixes the plot, well, chop chop, start digging.
Lmao, they would turn around and create more rain scenes.
The Jackdog
Member
i get weirdly destiny vibes.
the gameplay is just...so on point. like in destiny the shooting and stuff feels great. here i adore the sandbox they give you, so much to do and so many ways to do it.
but the story is just basically not there. the amount of areas feels weirdly small. the wide open spaces they have are completely underutilized.
expensive voice actors who are also completely under used....just like destiny.
a collection of ideas that just feel....unfinished.
fellas....is...is this metal gear destiny?
the gameplay is just...so on point. like in destiny the shooting and stuff feels great. here i adore the sandbox they give you, so much to do and so many ways to do it.
but the story is just basically not there. the amount of areas feels weirdly small. the wide open spaces they have are completely underutilized.
expensive voice actors who are also completely under used....just like destiny.
a collection of ideas that just feel....unfinished.
fellas....is...is this metal gear destiny?
Eh, I'm not sure on what basis you could make that argument. Volgin's story clearly reaches a conclusion.
You didn't like it, but that doesn't mean something got cut.
Evil Beaver
Member
No BB meeting a child sniper wolf, no Frank Jaeger & Naomi in Africa, no showing of BB's decent into madness, and most importantly no true Outer Heaven. Man, what a bummer.
3 million copies after the first week i guess.
No idea where they are at right now.
I looked here. http://www.konami.co.jp/en/news/2015/ but didn't see a thing yet.
I don't think Volgin being revealed in a tape means there's important cut content.
Man on Fire being Volgin is such a random thing. It matters nothing to the plot, either on the game or in the whole MG saga.
The content we do see has Volgin just surrendering when he realizes this BB is not the one who killed him, so...what do you think was cut? A cutscene version of the tape where Ocelot reveals the info?
I think Volgin was put in the game to have some throwback to MGS3, given how the other important character that accompanied him was a throwback to MGS1 (leaving the question why not a throwback to MGS2?). Maybe what was cut showed Ocelot realizing Venom was not the original BB, and having to explain who Volgin was, which is the maximum plot-being-cut amount that I would allow to the game.
Which would be weird seeing that Ocelot is supposed to be under hypnosis until he gets a sign from the Original Big Boss, which I don't know how it fits with recovering Volgin's body.
Man on Fire being Volgin is such a random thing. It matters nothing to the plot, either on the game or in the whole MG saga.
The content we do see has Volgin just surrendering when he realizes this BB is not the one who killed him, so...what do you think was cut? A cutscene version of the tape where Ocelot reveals the info?
I think Volgin was put in the game to have some throwback to MGS3, given how the other important character that accompanied him was a throwback to MGS1 (leaving the question why not a throwback to MGS2?). Maybe what was cut showed Ocelot realizing Venom was not the original BB, and having to explain who Volgin was, which is the maximum plot-being-cut amount that I would allow to the game.
Which would be weird seeing that Ocelot is supposed to be under hypnosis until he gets a sign from the Original Big Boss, which I don't know how it fits with recovering Volgin's body.
this sadly is the case for a lot of the characters in the game. lol.
If you remove any of the characters and give some of their lines to someone else, the story doesn't suffer.
There could be no ocelot.
Man on fire could be gone with no impact.
Eli could be gone with no impact.
=\ tells you tons on the quality of the writing and the importance of the characters.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Keep in mind that MGSV is also fresh of Peace Walker, which Kojima insisted go on PSP despite Konami begging him to keep it on consoles, and Metal Gear Rising, where Kojima Productions fucked around for a few years until they called it quits and Konami had to bring Platinum in. Both of these were situations where Kojima went "Trust me, I know best" and then emerging from the lab covered in soot going "Eh, whoops."
It was probably unrealistic for Konami to expect another MGS4-style success in any event - they basically had to shut down the entire company for a year to finish that game. It essentially killed everyone involved to finish it. In that sense, a follow up on less graphically intensive hardware seemed logical. But they very clearly were tired of Kojima's shit even before MGSV and the $80 million budget with a lot of money that was outright wasted was the straw that broke the camel's back.
The Jackdog
Member
man on fire to some dude just crushed by a metal gear
eli just being one of the kids
change revolver ocelot to pistol ferret.
plot doesnt change at all. they have just as much impact on the game, and the series as a whole, as skull face.
which is to say....none.
Volgin has no meaning to the game, sure, but the rest game's plot has importance in itself; the guys get revenge on skullface, Quiet has to leave her beloved BB, Eli is really angry at BB, ok Ocelot I give you he is such a non-character in the game.
That nothing of it matters in the bigger MGS saga is irrelevant.
Think the only plot point of importance to the saga is Huey being kicked out of Diamond Dogs. Huey being represented as a huge piece of shit is important.
PedroPanache
Member
You know, I'm not too bothered that Kojima didn't manage to do any of that, because the more he fleshed out Big Boss' back story, the more convoluted and distorted it became. The less sense it made and the more it fed into the stories overblown mythology. The irony is that the perfect lead in to MG1 onwards is still MGS3. That game perfectly plots Big Boss' trajectory from hero to villain. Portable Ops, Peace Walker and, now, MGSV haven't really added anything significant to his story.
I thought the hospital scene would take place after the BBvsSnake battle and the man on fire was actually Solid still haunting him inside his mind.
And that ishmael was gray fox after the battle in the field full of landmines.
akidnamededdy
Banned
I'm telling you guys, I'd bet money that Volgin was only included in this game because they were so in love with the ideas they had for him in MGSRising that they wanted to use him somehow so they just stuffed him in here. He brings nothing to the game.
- Intro hospital escape could just as easily be Mantis on his own feeding off of Big Boss/Venom's anger and wrecking shit randomly
- The "fight" you have against him midway through is nothing. You shoot a water tank and get on your helicopter. So it's not like we'd be losing a good boss fight.
- They have you retrieve his body but all that happens is an infiltration of a base you've already been to several times and a cutscene where Volgin gets up close to you and then drops dead. And then you have a pile of Volgin Jerky on your base for no reason.
ShockingAlberto
Member
The hallucination thing kind of flies out the window when other people start interacting with Volgin.
Either interactions with him were cut or he was poorly written. Whichever one it was seems irrelevant.
Either interactions with him were cut or he was poorly written. Whichever one it was seems irrelevant.
My initial interpretation after having to make a character while in bed was "ok I am not playing the old big boss". I immediately forgot about this tho. When I saw the Man on Fire and Psycho Mantis I thought ok the Man on Fire is some psychological manifestation of who Big Boss will become, a monster who ruins everything around him, and Ishmael would be the good side of Big Boss who helps people.
But then Ocelot acknowledges he saw the man on fire so.
In the end it's just Volgin because???
Quiet is a neat arch.. because it has some meaning and closure... but honestly.. her arc doesn't serve a purpose to make other characters move in the story.
Kaz seems to be the full character... as well as Huey.. he is an asshole.
Ocellot is a waste of time.
The kids... meh... i would've been ok if Venom had shot them in the mines.
Mantis was only there to justify moving Metal Gear.
Eli..... oh..he is angry.. now we know why he is so angry and BB... he is angry! oooooh. i understand now!!
Skullface... is as useful as the jeep ride... even tho he looks kinda cool. He is a tool to show that Kaz and Venom have a phantom pain and want revenge... thats the whole purpose. Honestly, he was a more interesting character in GZ when we didn't know who he was.
Codetalker.. he is only useful to say the word Parasite every other min... and talk about burgers... his character is so annoying. No point in him really.. all the parasite research could've been done by Huey and made Huey into a bigger asshole.
Who am i missin?
This already sounds like a better story. lol. also, you are including characters everyone wanted to see already. This could've been the mid point of hte game. pretty epic.
Graphics Horse
Member
Huh, this was a thing?
ShockingAlberto
Member
i really wanted this to be BB demons coming back at him... he is troubled.. and not stable... this kind of things are very interesting. Also.. Mantis controlling this kind of remorse, or guilt is the perfect excuse to make some awesome paranormal shit come to life.
They never explained the whale either! But in my mind. The whale is the missing link. KOJIMA DELIVERED!
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