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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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PedroPanache
Member
I don't think Hayter occasionally uttering "vocal cord parasites?" and "Shalalarpalapolous?" between boring character monologues would have saved this one.
ZeroMaverick
Member
I did some digging, and I think that if anyone were to give credence to MGSV's meta-narrative and how Kojima is actually a genius (The way people have for MGS2), part of the key is in reading this:
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl...che/Truth_and_Lie_in_an_Extra-Moral_Sense.htm
Nietzche's "On Truth and Lie in an Extra-Moral [Ultramorale] Sense"
"Thereby men do not flee from being deceived as much as from being damaged by deception: what they hate at this stage is basically not the deception but the bad, hostile consequences of certain kinds of deceptions. In a similarly limited way man wants the truth: he desires the agreeable life-preserving consequences of truth, but he is indifferent to pure knowledge, which has no consequences; he is even hostile to possibly damaging and destructive truths. And, moreover, what about these conventions of language? Are they really the products of knowledge, of the sense of truth? Do the designations and the things coincide? Is language the adequate expression of all realities?"
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl...che/Truth_and_Lie_in_an_Extra-Moral_Sense.htm
Nietzche's "On Truth and Lie in an Extra-Moral [Ultramorale] Sense"
"Thereby men do not flee from being deceived as much as from being damaged by deception: what they hate at this stage is basically not the deception but the bad, hostile consequences of certain kinds of deceptions. In a similarly limited way man wants the truth: he desires the agreeable life-preserving consequences of truth, but he is indifferent to pure knowledge, which has no consequences; he is even hostile to possibly damaging and destructive truths. And, moreover, what about these conventions of language? Are they really the products of knowledge, of the sense of truth? Do the designations and the things coincide? Is language the adequate expression of all realities?"
Zomba13
Member
You can't sell people pachinko machines as DLC for $15.
Berserker976
Member
i don't think hayter rikes me anymore
Huh... I thought you were cooler than than this. That's disappointing.
i don't think hayter rikes me anymore
C'mon, don't be an asshole.
Besides, David Hayter VO > Kiefer Sutherland VO
Cool, so I can write a book and publish it without the last 3 chapters and say it's not unfinished because I checked for typos.
There is no way MGSV as delivered is what was originally planned. The structure and pacing are nonsensical. Something clearly went screwy and they cut or reworked stuff to get it out the door ASAP.
Well then what is KojiPro even doing right now? They have to be doing something...
That's not my point at all. I'm perfectly aware that the story is not finished at all or even near in the state it should be. That being said there is a very big difference between calling a game unfinished and a story unfinished.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
There will be no DLC and even if, won't change my general opinion about the game. It's not just the missing content that makes the game worste than any other Metal Gear.
The floors have to be cleaned, so they're not running out of work
The floors have to be cleaned, so they're not running out of work
Konami's PR stated there are no plan for story DLCs.
Probably Konami will release a bunch of costumes for TPP single-player, costumes that should be in the game in first place, and than they will focus on MGO (microtransactions like slot for characters, hats, new skin etc, they are much easier and fast to do and they also grant much money with less risk).
I'd say I'm still pretty cool, just a little too ice cold.
WrenchNinja
Member
I think Hayter could pull off silence pretty well.
Barry Burton
Member
For the bolded part, not necessarily. With Metal Gear, we're talking about a stealth franchise and a game about carrying out operations. So, what I was really looking for in MGSV was to see how an open-world design would change the way we think about stealth, and the tactical side of things. And it didn't deliver on that, which is a real shame.
I understand what you're saying, but having an open-world that just has "stuff to do" scattered throughout doesn't hold any appeal to me, as countless other games do that. I don't want MGS to be like GTA or The Witcher, I wanted it to create it's own type of open-world experience. And it does neither.
I agree with you that the final MGSV that we got shouldn't have all of the empty space between mission areas, but it was apparent early on that it was a bland, boring, empty open-world. By being so obviously skippable, I never have to spend any time exploring or traversing the open-world. That's the only reason I was saying that what we got in MGSV would be preferable to if they plugged in those gaps with even more filler.
But obviously, yes, I'm in total agreement that MGSV should have either delivered on the promise of being a great, open-world for stealth action gameplay, or it shouldn't have been open-world at all. What we ending up getting in that regard is not good.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I really wonder why they didn't change the name of Chapter 2.
They called it Race but it was about Huey and Eli mostly.
They called it Race but it was about Huey and Eli mostly.
The edgy teenager kinda cool that is
Yeah I can't really see Hayter's voice coming out of BB in this game. Hayter sounds too cartoonish imo. It was fine for the past games but this game would be a lot cheesier with him.
Sure. I'm all for Hayter voicing snake again as along as we continue with the silent protagonist.
Barry Burton
Member
I was wondering about that myself.
Maybe it's because Chapter 2 was development "racing" to get the game done and shipped.
It was a race to the end. ;p
They likely wouldn't be able to finish such a chapter in 3 months even if Konami gave the green light.
ZeroMaverick
Member
"What, then, is truth? A mobile army of metaphors, metonyms, and anthropomorphismsin short, a sum of human relations which have been enhanced, transposed, and embellished poetically and rhetorically, and which after long use seem firm, canonical, and obligatory to a people: truths are illusions about which one has forgotten that this is what they are; metaphors which are worn out and without sensuous power; coins which have lost their pictures and now matter only as metal, no longer as coins."
I'm pretty sure having Hayter silent in the VO booth would be cheaper than Sutherland in the end too.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
You deserved to be banned not only from following Hayter on twitter but from Twitter itself. Shameless.
Leave the man alone.
Nietzsche was a hack.
I was certain this is how it was gonna play out. I hated the idea of Big Medic, I hated the idea of a twist, but for some reason when I loaded that mission I convinced myself "This is it. I'm finally gonna hear Snake!!!!!!!" but then it was just Keifer Sutherland not being able to pronounce SH words. Again.
Mission 46 sucks. I've mellowed on the twist a little but the reveal being in a replay of Mission 1 sucked. You should have at least played as Ishmael.
I also would have preferred Hayter to Keifer every step of the way. Nothing about Keifer's performance is SO GOOD that it makes the change feel worthwhile. It just feels like change for the sake of change which is the worst kind.
And nothing Hayter did is as cheesy or cringey as the rain scene and that awful forced laughter that's somehow dumber then the opening to Commando with Arnold. Hayter's performance in MGS 1-3(the ones with good stories) blows Keifer out of the water.
i'm just cheeky
I really don't care about who should have voiced Snake, but MGSV is already very very cheesy. From cheesy dialogue to Quiet and from her rain/shower scenes to Skullomania's jeep ride and his hilarious dramatic scenes.
KOMANI
KOMANI
You know how you do an open world stealth game?
Everyone in the open world is looking for YOU. And you need to hide from everyone. An alert at every corner.
On to something completely different... This game has made me distrust Yongyea and also I can't listen to Kinda Funny talk about this game... Greg Millet calling people that didn't like MGSV trolls didn't sit too well with me. It's very log headed to think that way.
Everyone in the open world is looking for YOU. And you need to hide from everyone. An alert at every corner.
On to something completely different... This game has made me distrust Yongyea and also I can't listen to Kinda Funny talk about this game... Greg Millet calling people that didn't like MGSV trolls didn't sit too well with me. It's very log headed to think that way.
PedroPanache
Member
I did laugh, because it was a funny burn, but, good lord man, Hayter's a pretty decent fella and is one of few VA's who gives a shit about his character and his work.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Thinking back on Ground Zeroes I think the reason I replayed it so many times is because of how snappy it is to get into a mission.
You select it from the main menu screen and it loads you into the mission and you can choose from Normal or Hard. There are cutscenes at the start for every mission, but you can just bring up the pause menu where it asks you if you want to skip, then skip, and you are immediately at the start point.
That is why I didn't have a problem replaying GZ (only one map too) repeatedly. I haven't done this at all for TPP though.
If doing side ops entailed a skippable cutscene followed by you starting immediately at the actual mission like Ground Zeroes I don't think I would have minded doing all of them.
But I just can't take that helicopter anymore. It takes way too long and should have been skippable. I don't know why they threw away the good mission select/start design of Ground Zeroes.
Count me in the group that would have preferred the game to be linear like the previous games. If it meant more Camp Omega tier levels then I would have sacrificed a 1000 Open Worlds to Kojima.
You select it from the main menu screen and it loads you into the mission and you can choose from Normal or Hard. There are cutscenes at the start for every mission, but you can just bring up the pause menu where it asks you if you want to skip, then skip, and you are immediately at the start point.
That is why I didn't have a problem replaying GZ (only one map too) repeatedly. I haven't done this at all for TPP though.
If doing side ops entailed a skippable cutscene followed by you starting immediately at the actual mission like Ground Zeroes I don't think I would have minded doing all of them.
But I just can't take that helicopter anymore. It takes way too long and should have been skippable. I don't know why they threw away the good mission select/start design of Ground Zeroes.
Count me in the group that would have preferred the game to be linear like the previous games. If it meant more Camp Omega tier levels then I would have sacrificed a 1000 Open Worlds to Kojima.
And what kind of retort do you think you are owed? Unlike Hayter, you haven't done anything to take note of.
ZeroMaverick
Member
You're a hack
If this game did get its fully fleshed out story, I'm thinking it was going to go all the way to MG1 and showing the death of the decoy BB. Wasn't there dummied out data pertaining to BB telling the decoy about Solid Snake infiltrating and giving his regards to some MG1 bosses if they weren't dead already? It was posted here a bit ago but I don't know if it was real or fake.
To me the game itself feels unfinished. Why are there "do old missions again but harder" missions before you even beat the game? Ch 2 feels extremely incomplete to me.
The story being incomplete is a symptom of the game's overall development troubles. The whole drama with kojima is another big clue.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
I still see Hayter haters still going strong here. Kind of odd that Snake was a mute character in MGS5.
And honestly, just think for a second....we don't even play Snake in TPP. The one and only true Snake is Hayter...forever now.
And honestly, just think for a second....we don't even play Snake in TPP. The one and only true Snake is Hayter...forever now.
Guilty. But at least I don't go around writing books about my hackness.
There is a game that did this already. Far Cry 2. Every outpost, and even jeeps around were on the look out for you. Almost to the point of annoying lol. Such a great game.
And yes... i don't trust Yong. His review and score of 97... plus his defend review video...I wonder what he'll cover next now that MGS is over. Someone pointed out that he did an analysis video of P5, without ever playing a persona game.
Goddamn
Lol damn, that's ice cold. Why you gotta do him like that.i don't think hayter rikes me anymore
I am adding you to my contacts and people to pay attention to. lol.
Your remarks are always on point.
Those guys are too invested in the wrong ways imo. They have been hyping up this game for ages now, one more than the other, so it's no surprise to me they would dismiss criticisms like that. It's the easier road to take.
One or probably both of them had special treatment from Konami (early let's play etc) so I don't give a shit what they think.
Evil Beaver
Member
So BB was never in a coma? What was he up to for those 9 years? Building Outer Heaven with nobody noticing?
How would XOF or Mantis/Volgin have been tipped off that some guy who might be big boss woke up from a long nap?
How would XOF or Mantis/Volgin have been tipped off that some guy who might be big boss woke up from a long nap?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
There is a game that did this already. Far Cry 2. Every outpost, and even jeeps around were on the look out for you. Almost to the point of annoying lol. Such a great game.
And yes... i don't trust Yong. His review and score of 97... plus his defend review video...I wonder what he'll cover next now that MGS is over. Someone pointed out that he did an analysis video of P5, without ever playing a persona game.
Didn't Yong said something like "Best Boss fights in the series" ? Yeah....competent.
Graphics Horse
Member
Maybe they just had the title card all written out and didn't have time when they changed it, such rush for release.
mgs2master2
Banned
#ISTANDWITHDAWG
FlashbladeGAF
Member
The question wasn't what it takes to make a game, It was Kojima's management skills.
And I find it funny you mention Naughty Dog when they had developer employee issues for Uncharted which actually got a delay (like it always does) to spend time and money to make sure it comes out perfect. Like most great games get. but you wouldn't call the shift in their direction poor management because 2 creative heads disagreed.
All I was saying is your original idea regardless of who you are, in whatever creative field your in, isn't the best it can be until your team and even you yourself look at it from different perspectives. Sometimes all it needs is a little polish and other times your inspired by someone else's criticism that makes you see and change things for the possible better. Thats not bad management, it's just the creative process.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Mission 46, and its context (or lack thereof), may be the biggest indicator the game was rushed at the end.
It just being the exact same mission, with the tutorial prompts, with the same cutscenes between the bed and the ambulance, was just so fucking dumb. They should have at least given you a tape to listen to while going through it.
While we're on the subject, the one thing I really dislike about the twist is how the beginning of the game just lies to you. In the intro, your character is never shown the real way the opening events play out because it would give away the twist, but it is never explained why it's different.
It reminds me of this joke in Bob's Burgers where the mom is putting on a murder mystery dinner theater and says "By the way, the murderer definitely isn't me." And then at the end says "I fooled you, I was actually the murderer!" That's pretty much the ending of Metal Gear Solid V.
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