Marvels Secret Wars by Hickman & Ribic |OT| Everything ends... Everything begins
- Thread starter Mudcrab
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Really hope the editorial staff don't leave their mark on the series, negatively.
Delays aren't great, but oh well. One day I'll be able to read the whole thing in one sitting.
I'm in the middle of moving houses, so I can't say I am too sad to see issue #6 delayed. No time this week! I will probably be pissed next week
Here is the belated list of books this week
Age of Apocalypse #4
Armor Wars #5
Guardians of Knowhere #3
House of M #3
Infinity Guantlet #4
Secret Wars Journal #5
Spider-island #4
Spider-verse #5
Here is the belated list of books this week
Age of Apocalypse #4
Armor Wars #5
Guardians of Knowhere #3
House of M #3
Infinity Guantlet #4
Secret Wars Journal #5
Spider-island #4
Spider-verse #5
a secret-boss
Banned
that's it for me
most of the comics I like are done
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Here is the belated list of books this week
Age of Apocalypse #4
Guardians of Knowhere #3
Infinity Guantlet #4
Secret Wars Journal #5
Spider-verse #5
Age of Apocalypse #4
Guardians of Knowhere #3
Infinity Guantlet #4
Secret Wars Journal #5
Spider-verse #5
I suppose
M.O.D.O.K. Assassin
Starlord went from Kitty Pryde to Knowhere
This Week's Books:
1872 #3
Captain Marvel and the Carol Corps #4
Inhumans Attilan Rising #5
Runaways #4
Weirdworld #4
X-tinction Agenda #4
Years of Future Past #5
The main book delays have really ruined the momentum of the event in my mind. I have fallen behind of a lot of the minis recently, but knowing that most wrap up before we get the final 4 issues of Secret Wars, they can't be all that important to the outcome.
1872 #3
Captain Marvel and the Carol Corps #4
Inhumans Attilan Rising #5
Runaways #4
Weirdworld #4
X-tinction Agenda #4
Years of Future Past #5
The main book delays have really ruined the momentum of the event in my mind. I have fallen behind of a lot of the minis recently, but knowing that most wrap up before we get the final 4 issues of Secret Wars, they can't be all that important to the outcome.
I agree entirely. It's sad-because I loved the event, but the majority of the tie ins have been boring to me, and with the main story delayed to a ridiculous amount-I'm really craving some new Marvel goodness.
My list in bold.
I guess even the well plotted and written events have to suffer some negatives too. It seems that a lot of the resolutions we're getting in the tie-ins are mostly the main chars realizing Battleworld/Doom is a lie and eventually they'll all get together for the main event.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
1872 #3
Inhumans Attilan Rising #5
Runaways #4
Years of Future Past #5
I'm enjoying the tie-ins more than the main book so they delays don't bother me at all.
Inhumans Attilan Rising #5
Runaways #4
Years of Future Past #5
I'm enjoying the tie-ins more than the main book so they delays don't bother me at all.
shadyspace
Banned
I've dropped all the minis because of this. I'm barely hanging on to my interest in the actual main series. Delays have killed my interest in so many series before this, sad to see it happen yet again but I guess I shouldn't be surprised at this point.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
how can someone be mad about delays on a book by two craftsmen so at the top of their game they make art adams look like the guy who conned people into thinking he was art adams
a secret-boss
Banned
I'm guessing that's the final Runaway issue
Both X-Men titles were to final issues as well.
X-tinction issue turned into full-on Dragon Ball, with figures shooting lasers at the bad guy on a nondescript rubble background. The artist style is flashy, but it's almost impossible to figure out the logistics of the fight.
Years of future past was way better. Things happened for a reason, you knew why everyone did what they did, and I was satisfied with the conclusion.
The thing I'm weirded about is that almost all of the books end with a clifhanger or a hook for a follow-up. I don't know how those thread will be used in the 'normal' universe. I liked this Runaways book for instance, but i can't imagine how that would work outside of the Battleworld.
X-tinction issue turned into full-on Dragon Ball, with figures shooting lasers at the bad guy on a nondescript rubble background. The artist style is flashy, but it's almost impossible to figure out the logistics of the fight.
Years of future past was way better. Things happened for a reason, you knew why everyone did what they did, and I was satisfied with the conclusion.
The thing I'm weirded about is that almost all of the books end with a clifhanger or a hook for a follow-up. I don't know how those thread will be used in the 'normal' universe. I liked this Runaways book for instance, but i can't imagine how that would work outside of the Battleworld.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
My pull list shrinks by the week. Which is good cuz I spent way too much money on comics over the last 4 months.
twozerotwo
Member
Oh, the woes of small town comic shops.
Apparently Runaways wasn't selling so they dropped it from their order. Looks like I'll be waiting to catch up. Lame.
I would order online but I'd rather wait and support them. With so many new books getting released in the coming months, I should special order anything I'm interested in just in case.
Is there a comprehensive list of all the upcoming releases with the ANAD Mahvel?
Apparently Runaways wasn't selling so they dropped it from their order. Looks like I'll be waiting to catch up. Lame.
I would order online but I'd rather wait and support them. With so many new books getting released in the coming months, I should special order anything I'm interested in just in case.
Is there a comprehensive list of all the upcoming releases with the ANAD Mahvel?
I picked a really bad time this week to basically read through all the Hickman Avengers stuff from #1 of Avengers and New Avengers all the way through to Secret Wars #5. Because... I thought Secret Wars was ending next month. Haven't been paying much attention to it so I missed all the delays. It's not ending until December? They're adding a 9th issue? Jesus Christ. What a mess. Lol.
So, some quick thoughts, mostly about the Avengers run pre-Secret Wars. I really liked how it started, and most of the premise is pretty engaging. New Avengers was consistently more interesting than Avengers though, simply because the Incursions and the Illuminati were just more compelling ideas with more development than the crisis-of-the-month stuff Avengers mostly had. Infinity was an example of just trying too much shit at once. I think the high point of the entire run was the Perfect World arc in New Avengers, and how it ended. Seeing them actually have to decide to kill a populated world was a huge watershed moment for the overall story arc.
But once Secret Wars started, I realized that Hickman totally dropped the ball on the main framing device he built the entire run on. "It started with two men" -> "It started with an idea" -> "One of them was life" -> "The other was death". That was the crux of the entire Avengers/New Avengers run. Steve Rogers was the optimistic heroic life-giving force of Marvel, while Tony Stark was the cynical anti-hero death-dealing inventor of Marvel. How each perceived the idea of having to get "bigger" to face overwhelming odds was the whole point of the arc. Yet there is no payoff. There is no climax. It keeps building on that same theme all the way to the end, and all it has is them fist fighting as the final Incursion happens, and Secret Wars switches completely to a Doom/Reed dynamic. Super disappointing.
Hickman hit a fucking homerun with the thematic framing in his Fantastic Four run, so what the hell happened here? Did he just lose interest? Change focus? Or are the remaining 4 issues of Secret War going to "secretly" return to this theme and close it off somehow? I'm just not seeing it. :/
So, some quick thoughts, mostly about the Avengers run pre-Secret Wars. I really liked how it started, and most of the premise is pretty engaging. New Avengers was consistently more interesting than Avengers though, simply because the Incursions and the Illuminati were just more compelling ideas with more development than the crisis-of-the-month stuff Avengers mostly had. Infinity was an example of just trying too much shit at once. I think the high point of the entire run was the Perfect World arc in New Avengers, and how it ended. Seeing them actually have to decide to kill a populated world was a huge watershed moment for the overall story arc.
But once Secret Wars started, I realized that Hickman totally dropped the ball on the main framing device he built the entire run on. "It started with two men" -> "It started with an idea" -> "One of them was life" -> "The other was death". That was the crux of the entire Avengers/New Avengers run. Steve Rogers was the optimistic heroic life-giving force of Marvel, while Tony Stark was the cynical anti-hero death-dealing inventor of Marvel. How each perceived the idea of having to get "bigger" to face overwhelming odds was the whole point of the arc. Yet there is no payoff. There is no climax. It keeps building on that same theme all the way to the end, and all it has is them fist fighting as the final Incursion happens, and Secret Wars switches completely to a Doom/Reed dynamic. Super disappointing.
Hickman hit a fucking homerun with the thematic framing in his Fantastic Four run, so what the hell happened here? Did he just lose interest? Change focus? Or are the remaining 4 issues of Secret War going to "secretly" return to this theme and close it off somehow? I'm just not seeing it. :/
Secret Wars is the conclusion to everything he's done so far. Avengers lead right into it, but it's factoring in things from FF, SHIELD, Secret Warriors, etc.
It started with the F4. It was always going to end in a Doom/Reed conflict just because of where that property sits in the Marvel U and how much Hickman seems to respect it.
But that's my thing right now. I do think there's going to be one or two interesting last minute swerves and that there's a checkovds gun somewhere. The Phoenix Force and Captain Universe seem primed for something like that.
It started with the F4. It was always going to end in a Doom/Reed conflict just because of where that property sits in the Marvel U and how much Hickman seems to respect it.
But that's my thing right now. I do think there's going to be one or two interesting last minute swerves and that there's a checkovds gun somewhere. The Phoenix Force and Captain Universe seem primed for something like that.
I don't think he dropped it I just think the them was swapped with Doom/Reed at it's core Hickman's entire run has always been a Doom/Reed story.
I don't see how he didn't "drop" it when he... clearly did? I mean it's not like it was a one off. The Steve Rogers/Tony Stark thing was in your face at the start of every other issue, and it was a thematic element in every milestone throughout the run. The way the Avengers story was framed was entirely in the context of the Avengers expansion idea being some mythological thing. "It was the spark that started the fire. A legend that grew in the telling.", etc. That thematic framing never had a payoff. In fact, it didn't even lead into anything in the end. That's the strangest part because Hickman is such a meticulous planner, I expect better. We're not talking about a single story either, but four years hammering home the ideas of Avengers "expansion". Then bam, it switches tracks completely once Secret Wars starts.
The fact that it never lead into anything is the payoff. It was always going to end this way. The whole story is framed that one of these two views will end up being right but the crushing revelation is that ultimately there was never any hope. Everything dies including the man who is life and the man who is death, and that's the way it ends with the two having a pointless fist fight during armageddon. This is where Victor comes in as he's neither really or maybe both and as a result he doesn't win but he doesn't lose either.
I think it adds up because of Black Swan. Stark got the idea for expansion after Iluminati bailed on Rogers. That was just another pointless move though because regardless of team size, the Avebgers could do nothing to stop the incursions even once the truth was revealed.
Hickman also keeps reminding the reader that all the notions he presents are as futile as they are romantic. Swan was right.
"You can't win, you have to try not to lose."
Doom (because of context, of course) was able to figure out what Reed was not able to.
Hickman also keeps reminding the reader that all the notions he presents are as futile as they are romantic. Swan was right.
"You can't win, you have to try not to lose."
Doom (because of context, of course) was able to figure out what Reed was not able to.
If everything actually dies, the theme would have more meaning, but... that's not the case. Not only does everything not die, but fucking Namor is still alive. What a cop out! 
The only thing that "died" in this entire exercise is the relevance of the Avengers in the larger scheme of things.
The only thing that "died" in this entire exercise is the relevance of the Avengers in the larger scheme of things.
If everything actually dies, the theme would have more meaning, but... that's not the case. Not only does everything not die, but fucking Namor is still alive. What a cop out!
The only thing that "died" in this entire exercise is the relevance of the Avengers in the larger scheme of things.
Well yeah, it's not like Marvel was going to close its doors after SW #1.
But really, everything* did die. Doom brought back what little he could. That talk about how everything and everyone in Battleworld radiates "the stuff of doom" is a reference to that, imo. Even the life raft survivors are only running about because there was a Battleworld with people in it to bring them out of stasis.
*With the exclusion of Doom, Strange and MM.
Fixed.
FUCKING NAMOR!!!!!
All the heroes in Life Raft 616, all the villains in Life Raft 1610, Ultimate Spider-man, and fucking Namor would be floating in white space for eternity without Doom. As good as dead (or worse).
Namor gonna get his just you wait.
Sure, but they didn't -die-, which was what I was getting at. None of this would be possible without Doom creating Battleworld, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that they still found a way to survive. So "everything dies" was really overselling it. That's the part of why that theme didn't quite work for me by the end.
Black Swan, the Illuminati, the Cabal, the struggles of having to destroy other worlds to save ours, and the crazy ideal of an Avengers World were all great though. In fact, I'm rooting for Secret Wars to end with a declaration that the recreated Earth after all this mess.... is.... an Avengers World. Lol.
I think I'm starting to realize that the main story of Secret Wars is what I'm interested in-and what we get of that is so bare. The tie ins are immense, but don't really focus on what I was hoping for. I want to see more of Black Panther and Namor-and where they ended up together. Instead we get one panel. I want to see how Thor found herself among The Thors and integrated into them. I want to know more about Doom and Susan's relationship and see Franklin interacting in this world, etc etc.
Instead I've been trudging through the awful Armor Wars and Spider-Verse. I think there have been a lot of missed opportunities here.
Instead I've been trudging through the awful Armor Wars and Spider-Verse. I think there have been a lot of missed opportunities here.
I'm fairly sure we're going to get that, gotta remember the next couple of issues are extra sized someone said 50 then 70 pages so there's a good chance Hickman is doing that "show then tell" thing he likes to do.
My solution to the tie-ins was to read the good ones and avoid things like Armor Wars. Siege, Weirdworld, Infinity Gauntlet and Thors are too real.
Yeah. These and Old Man Logan, Master of Kung Fu-I think those are the best ones.
Coriolanus
Banned
Reed lies. News at 11.
I really think you'll get all of this in the next four issues. I'm was surprised Thor still isn't in Thors though. Seems like they were really building to that.
I guess what I'm saying is I really wanted to see "our" heroes see Battleworld through their eyes. We saw a bit of that in Star-Lord/Kitty Pryde but that book sucked.
Everything does die eventually. The whole point of New Avengers was that the universe was ending prematurely and Reed and Co. weren't going to accept that (until they kill the not-JLA and Namor nukes the planet. Then they sort of roll over).
Coriolanus
Banned
Like i said, Reed lies. "i won't stand by it". Sure you wouldn't, buddy. Now go hug your family while Namor saves your ass.
Speaking of Reed's family, I have to admit, it's going to be reaaaaally interesting to see how shit goes down when he finds out that Doom not only saved his wife, children, and the future foundation when he failed, but that he has basically made them his own family. Lololol.
He didn't. Hickman did an interview and said when the Richards died, they really did bite it. Doom has a random alt-Richards family salvaged from the multiverse. 616 Richards clan is as dead as they come.
They dead dude
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Hickman lies! Franklin Richards is immortal!
they fell out of the dying multiverse
Hickman lies! Franklin Richards is immortal!
Even Future Franklin can't survive a universal collapse, not without someplace to run to.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Doesn't matter. Doom is still carrying on with versions of his family.
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